ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: BigPoppa on January 17, 2023, 12:31:44 AM
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My Ribelle (1st gen 2021) has been in LPR mode since November. I keep it on a PitBull rear stand in my garage. This weekend I decided to install some accessories. When I got to my Brake Bullet, I noticed my front brake fluid reservoir was completely empty. I looked all around the bike and under it and I couldn't find any sign of a leak. I'm 100% certain I had a normal amount of brake fluid when I put the bike in LPR mode since it's something I routinely glance at when my bikes are being used. Admittedly, I haven't looked at it since I put it in LPR mode, but I know it was at normal levels in the week or two prior.
Anyone else ever hear of such a thing? It seems nearly impossible to me. I would expect to have signs of a leak somewhere but I can't find anything. When I take my other bike to the dealer on Friday to have some auxiliary lights installed, I'll make an appointment to have it looked at.
Just curious if this has ever happened to anyone else with any other kind of bike.
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My Ribelle (1st gen 2021) has been in LPR mode since November. I keep it on a PitBull rear stand in my garage. This weekend I decided to install some accessories. When I got to my Brake Bullet, I noticed my front brake fluid reservoir was completely empty. I looked all around the bike and under it and I couldn't find any sign of a leak. I'm 100% certain I had a normal amount of brake fluid when I put the bike in LPR mode since it's something I routinely glance at when my bikes are being used. Admittedly, I haven't looked at it since I put it in LPR mode, but I know it was at normal levels in the week or two prior.
Anyone else ever hear of such a thing? It seems nearly impossible to me. I would expect to have signs of a leak somewhere but I can't find anything. When I take my other bike to the dealer on Friday to have some auxiliary lights installed, I'll make an appointment to have it looked at.
Just curious if this has ever happened to anyone else with any other kind of bike.
Did you try putting the bike back on the sidestand and wait to see if the level comes back up?
-Don- Reno, NV
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Had the yery same issue with my SS9+RS and asked the mechanic of the Swiss importer. He told me that this is caused by the fact that the circuit is not fully sealed and some of the destilled water in the coolant constantly evaporates. He also meant that this is not a big issue as the bike can be driven even with a coolant level below the minimum. I was quite surprised that the circuit is not hermetically sealed. And although he gave the all-clear, I am still ever so slightly worried.
Edit:
Sry. Poor reading skills at work...
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Had the yery same issue with my SS9+RS and asked the mechanic of the Swiss importer. He told me that this is caused by the fact that the circuit is not fully sealed and some of the destilled water in the coolant constantly evaporates. He also meant that this is not a big issue as the bike can be driven even with a coolant level below the minimum. I was quite surprised that the circuit is not hermetically sealed. And although he gave the all-clear, I am still ever so slightly worried.
The brake fluid seems to be the issue, not the coolant.
Has to be a leak somewhere. I would suspect the bullet brake is the culprit, if that was not installed when the fluid seemed to disappear, there must be a leak at the line from reservoir to master, one of the bleeder fittings or one of the banjo fittings. Might be an out of sight banjo at the ABS module.
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The front brake reservoir is completely empty. I didn’t get the bullet brake installed yet. I was getting ready to start the install when I noticed the empty brake reservoir. I’ll put it on the side stand in a little bit when I go back out the garage in a bit but I don’t expect to see any fluid return.
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The front brake reservoir is completely empty. I didn’t get the bullet brake installed yet. I was getting ready to start the install when I noticed the empty brake reservoir. I’ll put it on the side stand in a little bit when I go back out the garage in a bit but I don’t expect to see any fluid return.
"Bullett brake"..?? I've not heard of this before.
I wonder if one or more of the ABS module connections is leaking and pooling somewhere.... not visible from the outside, are you able to access the ABS module.?? The brake fluid has to be going somewhere, it doesn't just evaporate.
Smithy.
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The front brake reservoir is completely empty. I didn’t get the bullet brake installed yet. I was getting ready to start the install when I noticed the empty brake reservoir. I’ll put it on the side stand in a little bit when I go back out the garage in a bit but I don’t expect to see any fluid return.
"Bullett brake"..?? I've not heard of this before.
I wonder if one or more of the ABS module connections is leaking and pooling somewhere.... not visible from the outside, are you able to access the ABS module.?? The brake fluid has to be going somewhere, it doesn't just evaporate.
Smithy.
They recently improved them. They used to have a high failure rate, but not anymore with their new seals. I highly recommend the BB on any electric motorcycle. I even use mine as a hill hold at some red lights. All three of my electric motorcycles have them.
Order here. (https://www.bulletbrake.com/) And customer service is the best I have seen anywhere. They sent me three new ones to replace my old ones--for free. They now cost $120.00 US ($144.00 AUD) each, worth every cent, IMO.
-Don- Reno, NV
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The front brake reservoir is completely empty. I didn’t get the bullet brake installed yet. I was getting ready to start the install when I noticed the empty brake reservoir. I’ll put it on the side stand in a little bit when I go back out the garage in a bit but I don’t expect to see any fluid return.
"Bullett brake"..?? I've not heard of this before.
I wonder if one or more of the ABS module connections is leaking and pooling somewhere.... not visible from the outside, are you able to access the ABS module.?? The brake fluid has to be going somewhere, it doesn't just evaporate.
Smithy.
They recently improved them. They used to have a high failure rate, but not anymore with their new seals. I highly recommend the BB on any electric motorcycle. I even use mine as a hill hold at some red lights. All three of my electric motorcycles have them.
Order here. (https://www.bulletbrake.com/) And customer service is the best I have seen anywhere. They sent me three new ones to replace my old ones--for free. They now cost $120.00 US ($144.00 AUD) each, worth every cent, IMO.
-Don- Reno, NV
Thank you Sir...very helpfull...I'll check it out.
Smithy.
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I’ll put it on the side stand in a little bit when I go back out the garage in a bit but I don’t expect to see any fluid return.
Have you tried it yet? Or have you found the cause?
-Don- Reno, NV
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I do not know how these thing are put together so this could be coming totally out of my ass but here goes.
Sometimes after a long sit, fluid in a torgue converter will drain back down into the tranny, making it's level go up, etc etc. Yes I know this is not a tranny problem but point being, maybe the fluid drained down somewhere over time, and after being used, might go back to where it is supposed to be. have you pumped your brakes a number of times to see if you can see or feel any issues? Or possibly if there is an issue, pumping may cause it to show itself. If you did add more fluid, is there a way to overfill these things and cause problems that way?
Aaron
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I do not know how these thing are put together so this could be coming totally out of my ass but here goes.
Sometimes after a long sit, fluid in a torgue converter will drain back down into the tranny, making it's level go up, etc etc. Yes I know this is not a tranny problem but point being, maybe the fluid drained down somewhere over time, and after being used, might go back to where it is supposed to be. have you pumped your brakes a number of times to see if you can see or feel any issues? Or possibly if there is an issue, pumping may cause it to show itself. If you did add more fluid, is there a way to overfill these things and cause problems that way?Aaron
Not possible in a closed loop brake system. If the level in the reservoir is getting lower, it "must" have a leak somewhere in the system.
Smithy.
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Brake fluid is a clear yellowish hydraulic fluid based on polyglycol.
That means that it isn’t necessarily causing colored stains on the floor or glistening spots like spilled oil.
So it is perfectly possible that the bike leaked drop by drop without you being able to see anything.
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After a few days of sitting on the side stand, still no fluid in the reservoir. I agree that it had to have leaked out but I didn’t know it wouldn’t necessarily leave visible traces. At any rate, I’ll get it to the shop sometime in the next month or two. I’m not in a rush since it’s still too cold to ride it on my daily commute compared to my R1200RT. I have to tow it to the shop in any event since I don’t feel safe trying to ride it the 45’ish or so miles.
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After a few days of sitting on the side stand, still no fluid in the reservoir. I agree that it had to have leaked out but I didn’t know it wouldn’t necessarily leave visible traces. At any rate, I’ll get it to the shop sometime in the next month or two. I’m not in a rush since it’s still too cold to ride it on my daily commute compared to my R1200RT. I have to tow it to the shop in any event since I don’t feel safe trying to ride it the 45’ish or so miles.
It most likely is leaking from its very lowest point, so that is where to look. Look carefully around the front brake caliber. Loose caliber bleed screw?
-Don- Reno, NV
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My Ribelle (1st gen 2021) This weekend I decided to install some accessories. When I got to my Brake Bullet, I
which model of the brake bullet works for the Ribelle's
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My Ribelle (1st gen 2021) This weekend I decided to install some accessories. When I got to my Brake Bullet, I
which model of the brake bullet works for the Ribelle's
BB-01
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thank you.
This does look like something very useful to have for sure, especially in florida here where a lot of the roads are not so sturdy on the shoulders.
Aaron
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I have the BB obn my Ribelle since I own the bike, works great and no problems.
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which model of the brake bullet works for the Ribelle's
AFAIK, all Zeros as well as all the Energicas use the BB01.
I have it on both my Zeros as well as on my 2020 SS9-.
-Don- Reno, NV
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@Big Poppa,
Did you ever get to the bottom of this issue..??
Smithy.
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I have an appointment for next Friday to have the dealer look at my bike. I hope to know something by early the following week (they’re also going to do the 30k service on my BMW R1200RT at the same appointment so I suspect they’ll do that first).
Honestly, I don’t think they’ll figure out why it’s all gone but I’m still hoping they’ll find something I missed.
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I have an appointment for next Friday to have the dealer look at my bike. I hope to know something by early the following week (they’re also going to do the 30k service on my BMW R1200RT at the same appointment so I suspect they’ll do that first).
Honestly, I don’t think they’ll figure out why it’s all gone but I’m still hoping they’ll find something I missed.
They must find out where the leak is, or you could potentially have a brake failure.
There is blue brake fluid, or dye that can be added to the existing fluid, then the system can be pressurized by tying back the brake lever.
The source of the leak will soon be found.
Good luck and absolutely demand satisfaction on this issue. Serious issue indeed.
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Update on my bike. The mechanic found that it’s a very slow leak. He was able to trace the leak from the Rizoma reservoir, down the back side of the brake cable to the top of the fork leg. From there it goes just far enough down to the triple tree where it dries up before getting any further down.
That explains why there’s no paint damage from a brake fluid leak and why there were no spots on the floor or anywhere else on the bike. The mechanic believes the hose from the bottom of the Rizoma reservoir is too long and was therefor causing the o-ring at the bottom to not seal properly. He’s going to either cut it down in length or put a shorter hose on to hopefully resolve the leak. He’s asked me to keep a sheet of plain white paper under the reservoir once they’re done with the bike so I can see if it continues to leak.
They’re finishing up some accessory installations (frame sliders and Weiser indicator lights) as well as the 42 firmware update. I should be able to pick it up Tuesday or Wednesday and I’m looking forward to riding it with a more accurate speedo on the freeway and the running lights in the indicators.
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^^ Awesome!
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Good to hear that they found the leak!
Please leave us a feedback about your experience with the .042 update.
Is the range prediction getting better over time?
Charge time prediction while slow charging still OK?
Thank you!
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Picked up my bike this morning from the dealer. Turns out the Rizoma reservoir itself was the culprit. Fortunately I saved the OEM reservoir and they re-installed that. Traffic was too heavy from the dealer to my office this morning so I could only average about 40mph-50mph and I couldn't really maintain a steady speed. When I leave to go home I'll have a better idea if the 42 firmware truly addresses the speed error or not at freeway+ speeds.
Since I left the dealer with 95% SoC, I also won't have an idea of range or charge time predictions until I get home which usually sees me using up 60%+ SoC depending on how aggressive I get. ;)
I'll update again late next week after I've gotten a few more commute days and charge cycles under the new firmware.
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Earlier than planned update on my .042 firmware experience. Only 2 charge cycles since picking up my bike earlier this week. My observations so far:
- Speedometer now reads a pretty consistent 5mph high at freeway speeds instead of 10% high as measured by my Garmin GPS
- Range and charge time estimates are way off. My usual charge cycle takes about 3+ hours at 240v AC but the bike is estimating about 1.5 hours. Also, at 80% SoC the bike is estimating about a 35 mile range when I know I can easily get 60 miles.
- The bike is even worse now at recognizing my fob. I now get the Key Not In Range message when trying to start the bike and once I do get it started, it displays what I assume is a key not in range icon at the top while riding. I did triple check the key fob battery to make sure it was good (2.98v).
I’ll see if the range and charge estimates improve over the next week or so of commuting.
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Earlier than planned update on my .042 firmware experience. Only 2 charge cycles since picking up my bike earlier this week. My observations so far:
- Speedometer now reads a pretty consistent 5mph high at freeway speeds instead of 10% high as measured by my Garmin GPS
- Range and charge time estimates are way off. My usual charge cycle takes about 3+ hours at 240v AC but the bike is estimating about 1.5 hours. Also, at 80% SoC the bike is estimating about a 35 mile range when I know I can easily get 60 miles.
- The bike is even worse now at recognizing my fob. I now get the Key Not In Range message when trying to start the bike and once I do get it started, it displays what I assume is a key not in range icon at the top while riding. I did triple check the key fob battery to make sure it was good (2.98v).
I’ll see if the range and charge estimates improve over the next week or so of commuting.
If a 3-volt battery measures less than 3V, it is time to replace it. They put the minimum operational voltage on batteries, not the max. That is why they always read high when new. Yours is borderline. I would replace it and measure the voltage of the new battery as well. I have seen a few weak new ones. BTW, that is also why a 12.8 volt car battery is called 12V, not 13V. 12V is considered nearly fully discharged, but still could be usable for a short while.
BTW, I just realized I left my only key fob in my motorcycle pants in Reno. I will be using my PIN number later for today's ride. Did you get two FOBs with your bike? I only got one, I wonder if I can purchase another. My Harley came with two FOBS. So did my Chevy Bolt. So I wonder if I am only supposed to get one with my Experia.
But my SS9 is key only.
BTW, I have the same blue brake reservoir on my SS9 as you do, has never leaked at drop since the install around three years ago.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Earlier than planned update on my .042 firmware experience. Only 2 charge cycles since picking up my bike earlier this week. My observations so far:
- Speedometer now reads a pretty consistent 5mph high at freeway speeds instead of 10% high as measured by my Garmin GPS
- Range and charge time estimates are way off. My usual charge cycle takes about 3+ hours at 240v AC but the bike is estimating about 1.5 hours. Also, at 80% SoC the bike is estimating about a 35 mile range when I know I can easily get 60 miles.
- The bike is even worse now at recognizing my fob. I now get the Key Not In Range message when trying to start the bike and once I do get it started, it displays what I assume is a key not in range icon at the top while riding. I did triple check the key fob battery to make sure it was good (2.98v).
I’ll see if the range and charge estimates improve over the next week or so of commuting.
Does your SOC range prediction correspond accurately with the average wh/mi number that is generated on the third driving screen?
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If a 3-volt battery measures less than 3V, it is time to replace it. They put the minimum operational voltage on batteries, not the max. That is why they always read high when new. Yours is borderline. I would replace it and measure the voltage of the new battery as well. I have seen a few weak new ones. BTW, that is also why a 12.8 volt car battery is called 12V, not 13V. 12V is considered nearly fully discharged, but still could be usable for a short while.
BTW, I just realized I left my only key fob in my motorcycle pants in Reno. I will be using my PIN number later for today's ride. Did you get two FOBs with your bike? I only got one, I wonder if I can purchase another. My Harley came with two FOBS. So did my Chevy Bolt. So I wonder if I am only supposed to get one with my Experia.
But my SS9 is key only.
BTW, I have the same blue brake reservoir on my SS9 as you do, has never leaked at drop since the install around three years ago.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Thanks for the info on the battery voltage. I assumed anything close to the rated voltage was okay. I'll check my other new in package batteries then. Hopefully that will take care of the fob recognition issue.
Speaking of FOBs, my Ribelle only came with one FOB, one green (secondary) key, and one orange (master) key.
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Does you SOC range prediction correspond accurately with the average wh/mi number that is generated on the third driving screen?
I'll check it next week when I ride it back into work, probably Wednesday or so. It's supposed to rain here tomorrow through Tuesday.
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Unfortunately this thread went a bit astray, now we're talking about the update 042 :P
First, I am relieved that I am not the only one having these probs with the update. I was already thinking I got something we call a 'Monday' bike here (you know, built on a Monday by hangover guys).
Secondly, I am somewhat glad to report that my dealer contacted me yesterday because he got feedback from Energica regarding the range issue.
He said, this will be fixed with the next update. Therefore there is nothing we can do until then. The battery is not affected by this in any way.
Thirdly, because of the issue with the cooling fan of my onboard charger (not stopping after charge is complete), I will get a new charger.
So, I am happy to report that though Energica took some time, they are going to fix things (unlike Zero ::)).
@Dryer667: The consumption figures in the third screen remain correct. It appears to me they are not taken correctly for the range prediction - some calculation error probably.
The battery capacity is not affected. This week I rode the bike from 100 to 4 % SOC getting 180 km including some speedy stints over the autobahn.
That was somewhat less I am accustomed to see, but it was 6 degC ambient, that should be the reason.
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If a 3-volt battery measures less than 3V, it is time to replace it. They put the minimum operational voltage on batteries, not the max. That is why they always read high when new. Yours is borderline. I would replace it and measure the voltage of the new battery as well. I have seen a few weak new ones. BTW, that is also why a 12.8 volt car battery is called 12V, not 13V. 12V is considered nearly fully discharged, but still could be usable for a short while.
BTW, I just realized I left my only key fob in my motorcycle pants in Reno. I will be using my PIN number later for today's ride. Did you get two FOBs with your bike? I only got one, I wonder if I can purchase another. My Harley came with two FOBS. So did my Chevy Bolt. So I wonder if I am only supposed to get one with my Experia.
But my SS9 is key only.
BTW, I have the same blue brake reservoir on my SS9 as you do, has never leaked at drop since the install around three years ago.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Thanks for the heads up on the battery voltage. Sure enough, I measured a new coin battery and it was 3.3v. While the FOB recognition is much better, it’s still not as good as when I first bought my bike. I’m happy for now though.
As for the Rizoma front brake reservoir, the one I had on my EsseEsse9 was perfectly fine as well. Reading reviews on Revzilla, it does appear that the Rizoma reservoirs have a nearly 50-50 failure rate but since I wanted to get my bike fixed sooner rather than later and since I still had the OEM unit, I had the dealer put that back on. I might order a new Rizoma unit (only a 2 year warranty from date of purchase) when my next service is due and try again.
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Does your SOC range prediction correspond accurately with the average wh/mi number that is generated on the third driving screen?
Sorry for responding so late to this. As jotjotde said, yes, the wh/mi number appears to be correct. I have noticed a slight improvement in the mileage estimate over the last few days of riding into work but it’s still off quite a bit from 041. With the storms here in Northern California, I probably won’t ride into work again until the week after next so I won’t know if the mileage estimate continues to improve over time or not for another month or so.