ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Gasoline on December 25, 2022, 08:28:42 AM
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So the cell balance is saying 300-400 mv, and it won’t charge above 64%. When the bike is plugged in, at 64% charge, it just clicks every 2-3 seconds and the display flashes all black marks for a few flashes.
I didn’t know it was this bad as the previous owner wasn’t technical. And I didn’t know I could connect to Bluetooth and check until after I paid and got the bike home.
What are people’s recommendation here?
Also, I was considering going in and self balancing the pack somehow. Like drop the battery out, disassemble it, measure everything and figure out if I should discharge or charge the offending cells.
Lot of work. But don’t have much money to put into it anymore after buying it.
Thanks I’m advance for everyone’s advice, and Merry Christmas!
G
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So the cell balance is saying 300-400 mv, and it won’t charge above 64%. When the bike is plugged in, at 64% charge, it just clicks every 2-3 seconds and the display flashes all black marks for a few flashes.
I didn’t know it was this bad as the previous owner wasn’t technical. And I didn’t know I could connect to Bluetooth and check until after I paid and got the bike home.
What are people’s recommendation here?
Also, I was considering going in and self balancing the pack somehow. Like drop the battery out, disassemble it, measure everything and figure out if I should discharge or charge the offending cells.
Lot of work. But don’t have much money to put into it anymore after buying it.
Thanks I’m advance for everyone’s advice, and Merry Christmas!
G
welcome! I see that was your first post here.
It sounds like your OBC voltage is low, so it can only get to 64% SOC. Since it cannot get to 100% SOC and probably hasn't for a while, the balance will be way off too.
My recommendation would be to charge up the bike to 100% by using a Delta Q charger (https://zeromotorcyclesoc.com/product/quick-charger/). Perhaps you can borrow one from somebody and then see if the bike will then charge up to 100% SOC. The connector for it is on top of the motor. If it then charges to 100% SOC, then you know your OBC needs to be replaced.
But more than likely, you have low output from your OBC (on-board charger--very bottom of bike in front of motor). It's not cheap, IIRC, the price on it is around $1,400.00 and that is if you replace it yourself.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Thank you for the warm welcome! And thanks for the advice. I may have found one to buy in LA. I can also disassemble my OBC and measure the output as well. I’ll do that now, since it’s easier than dropping the battery.
I had a question for you, if my overall battery balance is so far off, if I plug it into the quick charger, will there be any danger to the battery? Or does the BMS automatically take care of the balancing once it has a legit source of voltage/power?
If it auto balances then this may solve all of my problems, and I can just charge externally from now on. Super excited and filled with hope again!! Haha
Thank you!
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Thank you for the warm welcome! And thanks for the advice. I may have found one to buy in LA. I can also disassemble my OBC and measure the output as well. I’ll do that now, since it’s easier than dropping the battery.
You may not be able to measure it when it is disconnected. Most modern chargers need to see battery voltage before they put out anything at all.
I had a question for you, if my overall battery balance is so far off, if I plug it into the quick charger, will there be any danger to the battery? Or does the BMS automatically take care of the balancing once it has a legit source of voltage/power?
No danger to the battery and it should still balance when it gets to full charge. The BMS is all inside the battery case and it should take care of everything.
If it auto balances then this may solve all of my problems, and I can just charge externally from now on. Super excited and filled with hope again!! Haha
Thank you!
The OBC is around 1,300 watts. The Delta Q is only around 800 watts. So expect it to take a bit longer to charge than a new OBC. But the DeltaQ's are very reliable. I have yet to hear about one that has crapped out.
Also, if and when you replace the OBC, you can then use both chargers and charge up about twice as fast (2,100 watts total instead of only 1,300 or only 800 watts).
If the OBC is not being used, you will have to turn the key on to start the charge from the DeltaQ. The contactor in the battery case must close, which is normally done with the OBC charging or when the bike is keyed on to run.
I would first charge to full, leave it on charging for ten minutes or longer after it's at 100% SOC so the contactor opens. Then a ride the bike enough to get it back down a bit and then another charge to full to get it to balance. I would charge to full several times after rides and see how the balance is doing. It should get better each time until balancing hits normal levels.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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This is all really helpful
Information. Thank you for sharing with me! You’ve given me hope that my lemon can be turned into lemonade!
800W is fine. As long as the battery can get to balance I’m happy as a clam:)
Wow I never thought an onboard charger could go bad like this.
I’ll let you all know how it goes!!
g
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This is all really helpful
Information. Thank you for sharing with me! You’ve given me hope that my lemon can be turned into lemonade!
800W is fine. As long as the battery can get to balance I’m happy as a clam:)
Wow I never thought an onboard charger could go bad like this.
I’ll let you all know how it goes!!
g
The OBC is probably the most unreliable thing on the bike. Many have had to change theirs here. 1,300 watts is a lot to ask from such a small uncooled package without any large heat fins, fan or anything to keep the guts of it cool.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Hello,
Use an external charger as recommended before but yes, there is "danger"! You must charge slowly, because the BMS has a max balancing current. If you can't throttle the charging current like on a DeltaQ, then plug it in and out every 10 minutes. That'll leave time for balancing.
There is no true danger as the BMS will protect the cells from overvoltage, but it can only switch everything off, and you don't want that.
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Gasoline,
I've recently posted similar problems with my 2014 SR and it boils down to the charger having gone bad somehow. I've already got another one on order. They cost $817. Expensive, and I hate to have to pay that much on this motorcycle that's not very old yet. But it's still cheaper than buying a new motorcycle.
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Hi all! So I’ve gotten my new elcon charger, and from my understanding it can charge at ~1600 watts with 110VAC, or 3300 with 220VAC.
I, for some reason, cannot get it to charge, either as piggyback to the OBC, or as standalone as Don mentioned before using the key.
what I’ve tried so far is this:
Plug the OBC charger in. It starts charging, green charging light comes on on dash. Then turn on the Elcon charger, but the elcon charger never sends actual power.
Alternately, I’ve tried turning the key on, and then plugging the already on elcon charger, and nothing happens, I’m able to see if the elcon charger is pulling power because I monitor my 120VAC system load.
Any help here or guidance would be appreciated.
I’m contacting elcon, to see if I did something wrong with the setup.
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Hi all! So I’ve gotten my new elcon charger, and from my understanding it can charge at ~1600 watts with 110VAC, or 3300 with 220VAC.
I, for some reason, cannot get it to charge, either as piggyback to the OBC, or as standalone as Don mentioned before using the key.
what I’ve tried so far is this:
Plug the OBC charger in. It starts charging, green charging light comes on on dash. Then turn on the Elcon charger, but the elcon charger never sends actual power.
Alternately, I’ve tried turning the key on, and then plugging the already on elcon charger, and nothing happens, I’m able to see if the elcon charger is pulling power because I monitor my 120VAC system load.
Any help here or guidance would be appreciated.
I’m contacting elcon, to see if I did something wrong with the setup.
Where are you connecting the Elcon to on the bike?
I have mine connected to the motor controller. I use the same Elcon, the 3.3KWs, two of them and I charge my Zero SR at a total of close to 8KW with the OBC.
If the Elcon sees no voltage, it will put out nothing. So check that from the bike before you even connect the Elcon to see if that is what is wrong.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Thanks Dan,
I’m plugging it in next to the motor.
What is your procedure to get it to charge? I can’t seem to get the elcon to pull any power from my 120VAC.
I am trying first turning the key on the bike. And then plugging the elcon in.
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Ok. I turn the key on, and I plug the elcon in, and I am pulling about 200 watts.
The elcon is slightly warm.
Maybe the BMS is balancing the cells now? Because the cell imbalance is so far gone?
When I do OBC only, with 120VAC, it pulls 1000 watts approximately, and the thing keeps turning on and off at 60% charge.
But with the elcon only, and key in, it pulls only 200 watts. Weird.
I’m just gonna keep it plugged in for a few hours.
Cell balance is 375mv now. Hopefully it will get better!
Praying!!
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Ok. I think the BMS is definitely not balancing, and the battery, because of one or a few cells are so out of whack, won’t be able to get to the point where it will start balancing.
Does anyone know an easy way to get to the pins that allow me to self-balance the battery? And also how do I get the readout of all the cell voltages?
I bought a usb interface, as well as a ODB2 connector. Was hoping I wouldn’t need to use it.
Man this is really turning into a lot more work than I hoped for.
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Alternately does anyone know if I can force the BMS to balance through software?
I guess I’m hoping for things the engineers didn’t think about lol.
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If you're willing to open up the monolith and have a Li charger that can work on a single cell at a time, you can just charge each cell one at a time manually.
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Hey Gasoline,
I am not sure what your Elcon is doing. As far as I know, the Zero BMS just does top-balancing.
That means once a cell goes above its full voltage, it gets discharged until it is back at full voltage.
There is no special communication with any charger neccessary, there's nothing to control, and I am not sure if there is an option like manually activate balancing.
Now you plugged your Elcon charger in correctly. It should start charging, no matter what you plug in first. Since you just have to manage to charge that battery, and we assume your OBC is dying, we should get your Elcon working properly. A few questions:
1. do you have the CAN enabled Elcon?
2. what is your target voltage set to on the Elcon?
3. what voltage does your battery have right now? (you can check that with the old Zero app or a multimeter at the big brown plug near the motor)
Connecting to the BMS and checking the cell voltages is a good idea in your case I think. It is very simple, if you have ever used a UART.
You just have to connect any FTDI/UART/Serial to USB adapter to the BMS. You can also use an arduino if you dont have an adapter. You don't need any special plug, just three of those female arduino wires will do the job.
https://www.elektroroller-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16213
Here are a few images which show how to connect.
https://www.elektroroller-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16213
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Thanks Dan,
I’m plugging it in next to the motor.
What is your procedure to get it to charge? I can’t seem to get the elcon to pull any power from my 120VAC.
I am trying first turning the key on the bike. And then plugging the elcon in.
I don't have my 3.3KW chargers here, only my two 2.5 KW Elcons and a bunch of DelatQs. But doesn't the Elcon 3.3 KW charger also have a led light you can see on opposite of the fan side? Watch that light when you start charging and let me know what it does. You will NOT see that light until the Elcon is plugged in. It shines through the weatherproof stuff, IIRC. If it is like my 2.5KW, it can shine different colors of different blinking speeds and each one means something. It can show what your issue is.
Anyway, my 3.3 KW Elcons are non-Canbus. Only need the HV DC connections. Is yours the same type? Will stop charging at 95% SOC and then lets the OBC take over? I think that means if you cannot reach 100%, cells will not balance, but that isn't your issue for now.
The way I use mine is to put on the AC voltage on all the chargers at the same time, including the OBC. Key may be left out, if the OBC will close the contactor. You will hear the same click as when you turn the bike on, if the OBC is activating the contactor.
The bike turned on SHOULD also close the contactor for the OBC to work. If that contactor is closed, the Elcon should also work if it sees the high voltage from the battery. But turning on the bike (even with sidestand down) will close the contactor if the OBC cannot do it because of a failure.
There is even a way to keep the key out and close the contactor. But that takes a modification. See the messages starting here. (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=8298.30) But that is only needed if you want to charge withOUT the OBC AND remove the key. I did that modification on both of my Zeros, so I can charge them at different rates and leave with the key in my pocket.
That shouldn't be necessary in your case. I had several reasons for doing such. But it is a good way to close the contactor with the key out when the OBC is NOT used.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I make stupid decisions sometimes.
Since I’m this deep, how do I charge each battery separately? I see balance lines on the top and front of the battery pack.
On a side note, WTB 2014+ SR battery.
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On a side note, WTB 2014+ SR battery.
Your battery is more likely ok, you just have to charge it to 100%, and after a few charging/discharging cycles the cell balance will be ok too.
Do not mess with the connectors/ribbon cable between the cells and BMS, I saw dealers damaging that ribbon cable, and it's not something that you will get an easy or fast replacement.
Those Elcon chargers are of two types:
1. CAN controlled- and you will need a controller that it's sold separately.
2. Switch enabled - instead of the CAN wires it has two wires coming out that needs to be touching together in order for the charger to get in charging mode.
Which Elcon do you have, and what's the maximum voltage that it's programmed to charge too?
Good luck.
Tom
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2. Switch enabled - instead of the CAN wires it has two wires coming out that needs to be touching together in order for the charger to get in charging mode.
I forgot about that, as I have two wires shorted out right at the connector on my 3.3KW chargers (and shorted together inside the chargers on my 2.5 Elcon Chargers).
I now have a feeling that is "Gasoline's" problem with not being able to get the chargers to start up.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Sorry all,
I have the canbus enabled version of the charger, and have the can controller as well. I’ve found out that when the battery is at 60%, the charger only pulls about 150 watts.
It won’t charge any more than 60% I think because the balance of the cells is way too far gone.
Maybe a cell or two are already at 4.2 volts or close to it.
How do I force balance the battery via software? I saw the info about the front port for communications. That will be the next thing I do. Pull cell voltage values, and see if I can find a way to manually discharge/charge cells.
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ELcon charger target voltage is set to maxv : 114.0V
Current voltage, i believe is around 100 volts. Battery percentage is 60%
cellbalance is 375 millivolts.
I'm going to see if i can talk to the battery bms directly as DerKrawallkeks recommended.
I don't look forward to putting the bike back together =(
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If the BMS is doing top balancing. then that means that i just need to plug it in for long enough for it to balance itself even though the battery is only 60%?
shoot, why did i take apart the battery then. or even take apart the bike.
*Facepalm*
Hey Gasoline,
I am not sure what your Elcon is doing. As far as I know, the Zero BMS just does top-balancing.
That means once a cell goes above its full voltage, it gets discharged until it is back at full voltage.
There is no special communication with any charger neccessary, there's nothing to control, and I am not sure if there is an option like manually activate balancing.
Now you plugged your Elcon charger in correctly. It should start charging, no matter what you plug in first. Since you just have to manage to charge that battery, and we assume your OBC is dying, we should get your Elcon working properly. A few questions:
1. do you have the CAN enabled Elcon?
2. what is your target voltage set to on the Elcon?
3. what voltage does your battery have right now? (you can check that with the old Zero app or a multimeter at the big brown plug near the motor)
Connecting to the BMS and checking the cell voltages is a good idea in your case I think. It is very simple, if you have ever used a UART.
You just have to connect any FTDI/UART/Serial to USB adapter to the BMS. You can also use an arduino if you dont have an adapter. You don't need any special plug, just three of those female arduino wires will do the job.
https://www.elektroroller-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16213
Here are a few images which show how to connect.
https://www.elektroroller-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16213
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Sorry all,
I have the canbus enabled version of the charger, and have the can controller as well. I’ve found out that when the battery is at 60%, the charger only pulls about 150 watts.
It won’t charge any more than 60% I think because the balance of the cells is way too far gone.
Maybe a cell or two are already at 4.2 volts or close to it.
How do I force balance the battery via software? I saw the info about the front port for communications. That will be the next thing I do. Pull cell voltage values, and see if I can find a way to manually discharge/charge cells.
My Elcon charger puts out around 150 watts when it is DONE charging. Perhaps yours is not being activated by the Canbus. Mine is the non CANBUS version, so I don't know exactly how yours gets activated with that controller. But that 150 watts is like a residual power when it isn't even really on, but connected up to your battery. So I think that is a clue that your Elcon charger is not being activated.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Thanks Don, I think the charger is working ok because when I drive a bit down to 55% battery, the elfin will pull 1300 watts or so charging. This has to do with cell balance.
Does anyone know how to force the monolith to close the switch so I can feed in 114VDC to the main lines?
I want to try charging it like this without the bike, just voltage source to monolith. Letting the BMS do it’s thing.
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Ah I found it. You’re a gem don. Thank you.
Thanks Dan,
I’m plugging it in next to the motor.
What is your procedure to get it to charge? I can’t seem to get the elcon to pull any power from my 120VAC.
I am trying first turning the key on the bike. And then plugging the elcon in.
I don't have my 3.3KW chargers here, only my two 2.5 KW Elcons and a bunch of DelatQs. But doesn't the Elcon 3.3 KW charger also have a led light you can see on opposite of the fan side? Watch that light when you start charging and let me know what it does. You will NOT see that light until the Elcon is plugged in. It shines through the weatherproof stuff, IIRC. If it is like my 2.5KW, it can shine different colors of different blinking speeds and each one means something. It can show what your issue is.
Anyway, my 3.3 KW Elcons are non-Canbus. Only need the HV DC connections. Is yours the same type? Will stop charging at 95% SOC and then lets the OBC take over? I think that means if you cannot reach 100%, cells will not balance, but that isn't your issue for now.
The way I use mine is to put on the AC voltage on all the chargers at the same time, including the OBC. Key may be left out, if the OBC will close the contactor. You will hear the same click as when you turn the bike on, if the OBC is activating the contactor.
The bike turned on SHOULD also close the contactor for the OBC to work. If that contactor is closed, the Elcon should also work if it sees the high voltage from the battery. But turning on the bike (even with sidestand down) will close the contactor if the OBC cannot do it because of a failure.
There is even a way to keep the key out and close the contactor. But that takes a modification. See the messages starting here. (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=8298.30) But that is only needed if you want to charge withOUT the OBC AND remove the key. I did that modification on both of my Zeros, so I can charge them at different rates and leave with the key in my pocket.
That shouldn't be necessary in your case. I had several reasons for doing such. But it is a good way to close the contactor with the key out when the OBC is NOT used.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Ah shoot. That is an 18 pin connector. My connector on the back of the battery is 16 pins.
It’s late here. I’ll try figuring out how to close the contactor tomorrow
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Does anyone know how to charge the monolith when it is out of the bike?
Doghouse is open.
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Ah I found it. You’re a gem don. Thank you.
You found what? Did you get the Elcon working?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Hey Gasoline,
I think you should slow down, read exactly what we say and not rip your bike apart. You are getting very valuable information from some of the most experienced guys here, that have been using Elcon chargers for a long time.
I understand that you think the cell imbalance is stopping your bike from charging, possibly because a cell already hit 4,15V.
Now: It is impossible for the external charger to know wether your cells are balanced or wether one of them is already full.
The external charger only sees the overall voltage, and it will charge your pack if it is less than 114V.
Therefore we can only tell you again, make sure that your Elcon is working correctly. There is no reason why it should slow down and stop charging.
The only way cell imbalance can stop the external charger is if the BMS decides to open the main contactor. It should be easy to determine this, because you would hear the click when it opens. So check that.
Now furthermore, like you already have planned, you should charge the battery fully, so the top balancing can take place.
Assuming you get your charging working, throttle down the Elcon as low as you can go in terms of power/current. I suggested this many posts ago already. It is important, because as you're approaching a full battery, the unbalanced cells (with the higher voltage) will start pushing above the limit of 4,15V. To avoid the BMS opening the contactor for safety, charging current should ideally not be higher than the balancing current. You won't be able to go that low, therefore set it as low as possible and then charge for a few minutes, then let it rest for a few minutes, and repeat.
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Yes you're right. I definitely opened up the bike WAY too early.
thank you for posting the link DerKrawallkeks for the cable. I have the cable up and am inside of the bms comm port now.
here is what i find so far:
ZERO BMS> status
*************************************************************
* Pack Status *
*************************************************************
General Configuration
Current Time (RTC) 01/07/2023 00:58:49
Firmware revision 60
Model Year 2014
Number of Bricks 4
Pack Type 2014_monolith
Pack Status
State of Charge 58 %
Pack Voltage 113.894 V
Highest Cell 4083 mV
Lowest Cell 3715 mV
Cell Balance 368 mV
Pack Current 0 A
Highest Pack Temp 19 C
Lowest Pack Temp 18 C
Isolation Status
Isolation Resistance -15205 KOhms
Isolation Voltage 4067 mV
Isolation Cell 0
Bike Status
System On No
Contactor Closed No
CAN Connected No
CAN Operational No
Charger Status
Ext Charger Attached No
Ext Charger Enabled Yes
MBB Charger Attached No
Charging Allowed Yes
Charger Disables:
- None
Warnings and Errors:
- Current Sensor calibration has not been set.
_____
ZERO BMS> balstats
*************************************************************
* Balance Statistics *
*************************************************************
- Balance Resistor Usage
- 01 31198 31198 |
- 02 31766 31766 |
- 03 31122 31122 |
- 04 30413 30413 |
- 05 29554 29554 |
- 06 29845 29845 |
- 07 25909 25909 |
- 08 25549 25549 |
- 09 25795 25795 |
- 10 25337 25337 |
- 11 23786 23786 |
- 12 24660 24660 |
- 13 24586 24586 |
- 14 0 0 |
- 15 27039 27039 |
- 16 26429 26429 |
- 17 25289 25289 |
- 18 26784 26784 |
- 19 25762 25762 |
- 20 26749 26749 |
- 21 26902 26902 |
- 22 24981 24981 |
- 23 17169 17169 |
- 24 26263 26263 |
- 25 26149 26149 |
- 26 26346 26346 |
- 27 27252 27252 |
- 28 25956 25956 |
____
ZERO BMS>inputs
*************************************************************
* BMS Measurements *
*************************************************************
- Bank Voltages : 01 - 4082 mV
: 02 - 4081 mV
: 03 - 4082 mV
: 04 - 4083 mV
: 05 - 4081 mV
: 06 - 4084 mV
: 07 - 4081 mV
: 08 - 4080 mV
: 09 - 4080 mV
: 10 - 4079 mV
: 11 - 4081 mV
: 12 - 4081 mV
: 13 - 4080 mV
: 14 - 3715 mV
: 15 - 4080 mV
: 16 - 4081 mV
: 17 - 4081 mV
: 18 - 4079 mV
: 19 - 4080 mV
: 20 - 4078 mV
: 21 - 4081 mV
: 22 - 4081 mV
: 23 - 4076 mV
: 24 - 4081 mV
: 25 - 4080 mV
: 26 - 4083 mV
: 27 - 4081 mV
: 28 - 4081 mV
- Highest Cell : 06 - 4084 mV
- Lowest Cell : 14 - 3715 mV
- Pack Imbalance : 369 mV
- Bank Voltage Sum : 113893 mV
- Group Voltages : 01 - 24470 mV
: 02 - 24456 mV
: 03 - 24088 mV
: 04 - 24458 mV
: 05 - 16308 mV
- Group Voltage Sum : 113780 mV
- State Of Charge : 58 %
- 3.3V Supply : 3250 mV
- 5V Supply : 4950 mV
- Pack Current : 0 uA
- Raw Current Sense Voltage : 0 mV
- Cal Current Sense Voltage : 0 mV
- Total Discharge : 36494877 uA - Total Adjusted Discharge : 36494877 uA
- Chassis Isolation Sense : 0 mV ( 0 ADC )
- Precharge Voltage : 0 mV ( 0 ADC )
- Pack Temps
- Brick 0 : 00 - 19 C ( 637 ADC, 1866mV )
: 01 - 18 C ( 641 ADC, 1877mV )
- Brick 1 : 00 - 19 C ( 636 ADC, 1863mV )
: 01 - 19 C ( 633 ADC, 1854mV )
- Brick 2 : 00 - 19 C ( 638 ADC, 1869mV )
: 01 - 19 C ( 634 ADC, 1857mV )
- Brick 3 : 00 - 19 C ( 631 ADC, 1848mV )
: 01 - 19 C ( 635 ADC, 1860mV )
- BMS Temps : 00 - 20 C ( 4029 ADC )
: 01 - 20 C ( 3950 ADC )
: 02 - 19 C ( 3884 ADC )
: 03 - 23 C ( 4376 ADC )
- MCU Internal Temp : 12 C ( 618 ADC )
- Bike Is On : 0
- Charger 0 Is Connected : 0
- Board ID : 3
- Node ID : 0
- PL536 Fault Pin : 0
- PL536 Alert Pin : 0
- PL536 Drdy Pin : 1
Seems like there is an issue with 14? everyone else looks great.
Thank you, and yes, i will slow down now. I'm planning to put the pack back together with some ugly caulking job maybe this weekend if it does not rain.
Also, DonTom, regarding the elcon, when i am below 60% battery charge (according to the app) the elcon will charge up to 1400 Watts on 120VAC. but once it hits around 60%, if using the OBC, i can hear the contactor turning on and off. but if i hook the Elcon in directly and turn the key on (forcing the contactor switch on) then It just draws 200watts or so. maybe 175.
I have a AC clamp current measurer, and also monitor all of my power draw in my electrical system. (victron). i am leaning towards saying that the elcon is working OK. I trust Sayyid and his programming.
I will most likely not do anything unless you all recommend something.
weird that only 1 cell is down, all the others are pretty close.
Appreciate you all!
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also this one, i think the info is the same as the other that i had provided but it's nice to see the graph:
ZERO BMS> balance
- Cell Voltage(mV) Diff(mV) Graph
- 01 4082 368 --------------------------|
- 02 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 03 4082 368 --------------------------|
- 04 4083 369 --------------------------|
- 05 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 06 4083 369 --------------------------|
- 07 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 08 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 09 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 10 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 11 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 12 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 13 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 14 3714 0 -|
- 15 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 16 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 17 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 18 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 19 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 20 4077 363 --------------------------|
- 21 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 22 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 23 4076 362 --------------------------|
- 24 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 25 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 26 4083 369 --------------------------|
- 27 4082 368 --------------------------|
- 28 4081 367 --------------------------|
- Highest Bank : 04 (4083 mV)
- Lowest Bank : 14 (3714 mV)
- Imbalance : 369 mV
-
In my mind the easiest thing to do would be to charge that individual cell (14) up to 4V… but I don’t know a software way to do it, nor do I know where that cell’s balance cable is in the monolith.
I found the command dbgb or dobackgroundbal in search history. No mention of anybody using it though.
The elcon is set to target voltage of 114VDC, and according to logs the monolith voltage is 113.89V. So it’s in balance mode now? Maybe all I need to do is keep it hooked up for a few days and it will balance itself and I don’t need to issue any commands?
Hope everyone is having a great weekend!
-
also this one, i think the info is the same as the other that i had provided but it's nice to see the graph:
ZERO BMS> balance
- Cell Voltage(mV) Diff(mV) Graph
- 01 4082 368 --------------------------|
- 02 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 03 4082 368 --------------------------|
- 04 4083 369 --------------------------|
- 05 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 06 4083 369 --------------------------|
- 07 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 08 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 09 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 10 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 11 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 12 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 13 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 14 3714 0 -|
- 15 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 16 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 17 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 18 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 19 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 20 4077 363 --------------------------|
- 21 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 22 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 23 4076 362 --------------------------|
- 24 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 25 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 26 4083 369 --------------------------|
- 27 4082 368 --------------------------|
- 28 4081 367 --------------------------|
- Highest Bank : 04 (4083 mV)
- Lowest Bank : 14 (3714 mV)
- Imbalance : 369 mV
Something does look strange there with cell 14, perhaps it is turning off the Elcon. I expect something is telling the Elcon to shut off. If it is that cell 14 or not, I have no idea. Something on the CANBUS telling the Elcon to shut down, perhaps? TBH, I have no idea what is going on there. I hope you find the problem and post it here.
My Elcons do not use the CANBUS. I see no real advantage to it. I like mine to shut off at 95%. By the time I put the Elcons away, I am close to 100% SOC anyway from the OBC taking over. And even with the Elcons with CANBUS, the Elcon will drop way down in power at 95% SOC anyway. And I only charge to 100% when I think I really could use it, which is not that often.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
Hey DonTom and Gasoline,
the Elcon has no communication with the bike and can not be turned off by the bike/BMS in any way.
But hey, you made good progress! So far you had assumed that the voltage of the pack is 100V, as you mentioned in a previous post. This was just wrong, and the pack is actually at 113,8V, which is the reason your Elcon does not charge. It has reached it's target voltage.
You are almost in the balancing region. It will start to balance once the first cells hit 4,15V. What you should do now is to set your Elcon charging current to the lowest it can go. Try 1A.
Then set the target voltage to 116V.
It would be helpful if you keep your laptop connected to the BMS and monitor the individual cell voltages. You'll see them rise. Once the highest hits 4,15V, you should stop and let it balance.
When you stop, the voltages will most likely immediately drop a tiny bit instantly. If that is the case, keep charging until the highest cell is a little above 4,15V, like 4,17V, and then stop and let it balance.
You're almost done:) it is unfortunately likely that this cell has some fault, because it is so far off the others. But while this is odd, 3,7V means your cell is not dead or anything. And it is actually a healthier storage voltage than the higher cells. So we'll keep our fingers crossed for you!
-
My Elcons do not use the CANBUS. I see no real advantage to it. I like mine to shut off at 95%. By the time I put the Elcons away, I am close to 100% SOC anyway from the OBC taking over. And even with the Elcons with CANBUS, the Elcon will drop way down in power at 95% SOC anyway. And I only charge to 100% when I think I really could use it, which is not that often.
-Don- Auburn, CA
@DonTom
I wanted to comment on that. The Elcon seems to drop down in power at 95% SOC, but I want to clarify that this is not anything actively done by the charger. This charger can go to 132V. When you set it to 116V, and get close to 116V (full bike), the charger will go full power literally until 115,99V INSIDE THE CHARGER. At the instant it hits 116V INSIDE THE CHARGER, current will start dropping off.
What we see in terms of voltage and SOC at the bike is a different story, because of the internal resistance of the cells and the voltage drop across the plugs and wires connecting the charger to the bike.
The process goes like this:
1. Charger hits 116V.
- Current will start dropping (the charger is not doing this actively, it's a result of it keeping the voltage at 116V)
- The battery at this point is still slightly <116V due to the resistance of the wires and plugs
2. Battery equalizes very close to 116V, it's almost the same as the charger.
- There is still significant charge current, as the battery hasn't fully soaked in 116V yet.
- It is 116V externally, but due to the voltage drop across the internal resistance, the cells themselves aren't actually at 116V yet.
- If you were to take the charger away, voltage would drop.
What I am trying to say is that the charger itself does not actively reduce power as it gets close to 116V internally. That reduction in power that we observe close to 100% only happens due to wires with resistance and battery cells with internal resistance.
-
I wanted to comment on that. The Elcon seems to drop down in power at 95% SOC, but I want to clarify that this is not anything actively done by the charger.
Yes it is. The non-Canbus version I have is programed to TOTALLY drop out at 95% SOC unlike the CANBUS version. But that is still just a little less than 200 watts even after it drops out.
Not my opinion, but what Sayyed's boss told me himself when he asked me which programming I wanted to go with. I quicky said the non-CANBUS as I see no advantage to charging to 100% SOC.
Of course any of the chargers to an EV will lower the charge rate a lot by 95% anyway. One of the other reasons to NOT have the CANBUS charger.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
Interesting. I'm not so sure, from what I saw with my Elcons.
But they were CAN controlled so maybe that's why.
-
Interesting. I'm not so sure, from what I saw with my Elcons.
But they were CAN controlled so maybe that's why.
Yes, that is the difference. Yours can charge to 100% SOC. Mine totally stop the charge at 95% SOC. Not counting the 200 watts residual even when they are turned off by the internal programming.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
also this one, i think the info is the same as the other that i had provided but it's nice to see the graph:
ZERO BMS> balance
- Cell Voltage(mV) Diff(mV) Graph
- 01 4082 368 --------------------------|
- 02 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 03 4082 368 --------------------------|
- 04 4083 369 --------------------------|
- 05 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 06 4083 369 --------------------------|
- 07 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 08 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 09 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 10 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 11 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 12 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 13 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 14 3714 0 -|
- 15 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 16 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 17 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 18 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 19 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 20 4077 363 --------------------------|
- 21 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 22 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 23 4076 362 --------------------------|
- 24 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 25 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 26 4083 369 --------------------------|
- 27 4082 368 --------------------------|
- 28 4081 367 --------------------------|
- Highest Bank : 04 (4083 mV)
- Lowest Bank : 14 (3714 mV)
- Imbalance : 369 mV
Does anybody else here have a graph like above for their bike? I see 28 cells, but perhaps they reference them all to cell 14--the cell in the middle for the "diff", That would mean "0" is a normal reading there.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
also this one, i think the info is the same as the other that i had provided but it's nice to see the graph:
ZERO BMS> balance
- Cell Voltage(mV) Diff(mV) Graph
- 01 4082 368 --------------------------|
- 02 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 03 4082 368 --------------------------|
- 04 4083 369 --------------------------|
- 05 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 06 4083 369 --------------------------|
- 07 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 08 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 09 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 10 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 11 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 12 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 13 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 14 3714 0 -|
- 15 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 16 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 17 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 18 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 19 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 20 4077 363 --------------------------|
- 21 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 22 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 23 4076 362 --------------------------|
- 24 4081 367 --------------------------|
- 25 4080 366 --------------------------|
- 26 4083 369 --------------------------|
- 27 4082 368 --------------------------|
- 28 4081 367 --------------------------|
- Highest Bank : 04 (4083 mV)
- Lowest Bank : 14 (3714 mV)
- Imbalance : 369 mV
Does anybody else here have a graph like above for their bike? I see 28 cells, but perhaps they reference them all to cell 14--the cell in the middle for the "diff", That would mean "0" is a normal reading there.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Clearly it just shows the difference from the lowest cell, there has to be some reference zero point and that's perhaps easier than going from the highest cell and having a load of - signs everywhere or picking the middle cell and having a mix of positive and negative. And the 0 isn't a normal reading, obviously with all the other cells reading nearly 4.1v that cell should also be around that.
-
Does anyone have the level 2 or level 3 password for the bms interface? DM's welcome if yo udont' want to post it.
I am not able to get the pack cells over 4.1 volts. most likely because the elcon is maxed. elcon is currently pulling 300 watts when i leave it plugged in.
i've had it plugged in for like 3 hours now, and the cell balance is still 375 millivolts.
ZERO BMS> balance
- Cell Voltage(mV) Diff(mV) Graph
- 01 4102 374 --------------------------|
- 02 4102 374 --------------------------|
- 03 4102 374 --------------------------|
- 04 4103 375 --------------------------|
- 05 4101 373 --------------------------|
- 06 4103 375 --------------------------|
- 07 4101 373 --------------------------|
- 08 4100 372 --------------------------|
- 09 4100 372 --------------------------|
- 10 4099 371 --------------------------|
- 11 4101 373 --------------------------|
- 12 4101 373 --------------------------|
- 13 4101 373 --------------------------|
- 14 3728 0 -|
- 15 4101 373 --------------------------|
- 16 4102 374 --------------------------|
- 17 4102 374 --------------------------|
- 18 4100 372 --------------------------|
- 19 4101 373 --------------------------|
- 20 4098 370 --------------------------|
- 21 4102 374 --------------------------|
- 22 4101 373 --------------------------|
- 23 4096 368 -------------------------|
- 24 4100 372 --------------------------|
- 25 4101 373 --------------------------|
- 26 4105 377 --------------------------|
- 27 4102 374 --------------------------|
- 28 4102 374 --------------------------|
- Highest Bank : 26 (4105 mV)
- Lowest Bank : 14 (3728 mV)
- Imbalance : 377 mV
this is the system after 3 hours.
i'd like to try force balancing. i think i need level 1 or 2 for that.
-
OK, so I can tell you right now the BMS does not have the oomph to balance that large of a delta in an individual cell. The charger doesn't matter, other than getting the SOC high enough, all the cells are connected together to the charger. The BMS has to do the balancing, more power won't help here.
Most of the time we have such a large imbalance in old batteries, it is due to irreversible battery cell aging. We got a lot of 13,14,15 batteries come in with a similar issues, and the only remedy Zero recommends is a battery replacement.
If that cell is aged, the ability to push or pull current into/from it is very different from its pals. If you did manage to charge it up, it would quickly revert to being imbalanced within a few rides at best. Sorry I don't have better news for you.
That being said, if you had the tools and engineering know how to isolate that cell, and trickle charge it to max, you could try it. But that's pretty squarely into dangerous waters for the untrained individual. This pack is more than capable of shocking you to death, or catching fire and burning down your house. Please be careful.
-
Thanks Auriga, appreciate your expertise here. I can go in and trickle charge it as you said. I guess my thought here regarding this pack's situation is that the 12V or 5V rails internally to the BMS are pulling from just cell 14? I looked at logs and this bike had been "off the charger" for more than a year at one point. far beyond the 1 month that Zero recommends. so maybe this is just a case of cell 14 being used to keep the BMS board up and running for the year that it was sitting.
If trickle charging that cell is the only way, then i have the pack apart already, and i will try it.
If anyone knows where cell 14 bms line is, it will help me greatly save time. otherwise, i'll just start pulling bms connector lines and start probing.
I tried the 1.21giXXX password, and it does not work.
the previous owner had taken this bike in to a zero service center, and i think they upgraded the firmware, so that password may have been nuked? not sure.
i'm working off very little information here but learning as much as i can.
Gasoline
OK, so I can tell you right now the BMS does not have the oomph to balance that large of a delta in an individual cell. The charger doesn't matter, other than getting the SOC high enough, all the cells are connected together to the charger. The BMS has to do the balancing, more power won't help here.
Most of the time we have such a large imbalance in old batteries, it is due to irreversible battery cell aging. We got a lot of 13,14,15 batteries come in with a similar issues, and the only remedy Zero recommends is a battery replacement.
If that cell is aged, the ability to push or pull current into/from it is very different from its pals. If you did manage to charge it up, it would quickly revert to being imbalanced within a few rides at best. Sorry I don't have better news for you.
That being said, if you had the tools and engineering know how to isolate that cell, and trickle charge it to max, you could try it. But that's pretty squarely into dangerous waters for the untrained individual. This pack is more than capable of shocking you to death, or catching fire and burning down your house. Please be careful.
-
oh. I read this now and see it.
It looks like i am 2 volts shy of 116 V. So i need to reprogram my elcon.
OK. I will make a cable. There are only so many combinations of 3 cables to a audio plug. I prefer this method over anything else, i don't want to go probing into the bms cables.
ok will try. thank you!
Gasoline
My Elcons do not use the CANBUS. I see no real advantage to it. I like mine to shut off at 95%. By the time I put the Elcons away, I am close to 100% SOC anyway from the OBC taking over. And even with the Elcons with CANBUS, the Elcon will drop way down in power at 95% SOC anyway. And I only charge to 100% when I think I really could use it, which is not that often.
-Don- Auburn, CA
@DonTom
I wanted to comment on that. The Elcon seems to drop down in power at 95% SOC, but I want to clarify that this is not anything actively done by the charger. This charger can go to 132V. When you set it to 116V, and get close to 116V (full bike), the charger will go full power literally until 115,99V INSIDE THE CHARGER. At the instant it hits 116V INSIDE THE CHARGER, current will start dropping off.
What we see in terms of voltage and SOC at the bike is a different story, because of the internal resistance of the cells and the voltage drop across the plugs and wires connecting the charger to the bike.
The process goes like this:
1. Charger hits 116V.
- Current will start dropping (the charger is not doing this actively, it's a result of it keeping the voltage at 116V)
- The battery at this point is still slightly <116V due to the resistance of the wires and plugs
2. Battery equalizes very close to 116V, it's almost the same as the charger.
- There is still significant charge current, as the battery hasn't fully soaked in 116V yet.
- It is 116V externally, but due to the voltage drop across the internal resistance, the cells themselves aren't actually at 116V yet.
- If you were to take the charger away, voltage would drop.
What I am trying to say is that the charger itself does not actively reduce power as it gets close to 116V internally. That reduction in power that we observe close to 100% only happens due to wires with resistance and battery cells with internal resistance.
-
OK. I found a way to create the cable to talk to the elcon, and i have set it to 116VDC max voltage. it is literally tape together with scotch tape because i don't have my soldering iron.
but it works. and i was able to get the pack up to 116 Volts. Now i unplugged it and have left it alone. Hopefully it will balance. I took a screenshot of it right after i unplugged the elcon.
The elcon itself seems to throttle down its power draw, i believe that i have a charging profile that was programmed by Sayyid, so the closer i get to target max voltage, the less current it will output.
I'm hopeful again now.
now i'm thinking about how to put the monolith back together while still making it relatively waterproof. probably some non-acetic acid off-gassing caulk. I've had good luck with some 3m boat caulk before. will do a bit of research.
Thank you very much DerKrawallkeks, you're right, you've been correct the whole time, i just needed to read and follow instructions.
hoping for the best,
Gasoline
My Elcons do not use the CANBUS. I see no real advantage to it. I like mine to shut off at 95%. By the time I put the Elcons away, I am close to 100% SOC anyway from the OBC taking over. And even with the Elcons with CANBUS, the Elcon will drop way down in power at 95% SOC anyway. And I only charge to 100% when I think I really could use it, which is not that often.
-Don- Auburn, CA
@DonTom
I wanted to comment on that. The Elcon seems to drop down in power at 95% SOC, but I want to clarify that this is not anything actively done by the charger. This charger can go to 132V. When you set it to 116V, and get close to 116V (full bike), the charger will go full power literally until 115,99V INSIDE THE CHARGER. At the instant it hits 116V INSIDE THE CHARGER, current will start dropping off.
What we see in terms of voltage and SOC at the bike is a different story, because of the internal resistance of the cells and the voltage drop across the plugs and wires connecting the charger to the bike.
The process goes like this:
1. Charger hits 116V.
- Current will start dropping (the charger is not doing this actively, it's a result of it keeping the voltage at 116V)
- The battery at this point is still slightly <116V due to the resistance of the wires and plugs
2. Battery equalizes very close to 116V, it's almost the same as the charger.
- There is still significant charge current, as the battery hasn't fully soaked in 116V yet.
- It is 116V externally, but due to the voltage drop across the internal resistance, the cells themselves aren't actually at 116V yet.
- If you were to take the charger away, voltage would drop.
What I am trying to say is that the charger itself does not actively reduce power as it gets close to 116V internally. That reduction in power that we observe close to 100% only happens due to wires with resistance and battery cells with internal resistance.
-
Hey,
sounds like good news! While Auriga certainly is right that an apparently bad cell is unlikely to perform well, there is one hope: stored at 3,7V the aging is less than at 4V.
So the fact that it's at 3,7V itself is not at all a problem just the question how it went there.
You'll see, and reprogramming the Elcon is quite the achievement in itself:D I have a question, cause I had struggled with that. It sounds like you didn't need a CAN controller before to use your Elcon, and just now you made a cable and reprogrammed it, is that right?
Cause in my experience, the CAN enabled version always needed constant messaging from a CAN controller to work.
Best regards!
-
Now that you charged to 116V, your cell voltages of the high cells should now be very slightly above 4,15V. They should be 4,16V and the BMS will now hopefully discharge them to 4,15V, and the overall voltage should drop to roughly 115,5V. You will have to repeat that process of charging it back up to 116V.
If you want to speed it up, I recommend you charge it to 116,2V instead of 116,0V, cause that's the actual full voltage. That'll "overcharge" the high cells slightly more, and it'll equalize more with the low cell in one go.
-
Hi all,
apologies for the late post, and appreciate everyone for your help and support. Everyone's knowledge was really helpful to me.
DerKrawallkeks, I am still of the thought that the #14 cell that is so low was low because of the OBC failing, and being unable to put the battery into balance. And over time, without the previous owner riding the bike much, it slowly just got drained more and more. I also believe that the explanation for #14 falling so low is because it is the one supplying the balance circuitry its power. This is unverified, but it makes sense in my mind.
regarding the elcon charger, I was able to program the Elcon charge because i have the Thunderstruck Motors EV Charge Controller v3.0 programming manual. And i was able to fabricate a serial port cable which worked. The Elcon charger i have is this model: HK-MF-144-23, provided by https://elconchargers.com/ Sorry if i wasn't clear about this before.
Somebody had mentioned that i could charge the cell itself that was low (#14), but i didn't do this, even though i had the battery pack apart and had access to the cables. Instead, I was able to get the command "dobal" to work. and it is very very slowly balancing the cells all down to the level which #14 is at. it's very slow, but I'm enjoying watching the numbers decrease over time. It's like a very small heater that will last a few weeks. ha ha.
Alternately i could keep the pack plugged in and let the system balance itself when it's top-balancing. I think both are good choices.
I shouldn't have taken the pack apart, but I learned what it takes to put an electric motorcycle together in the meantime, so that's a good thing.
Hope you all are doing well, and happy new year!
Gasoline
Hey,
sounds like good news! While Auriga certainly is right that an apparently bad cell is unlikely to perform well, there is one hope: stored at 3,7V the aging is less than at 4V.
So the fact that it's at 3,7V itself is not at all a problem just the question how it went there.
You'll see, and reprogramming the Elcon is quite the achievement in itself:D I have a question, cause I had struggled with that. It sounds like you didn't need a CAN controller before to use your Elcon, and just now you made a cable and reprogrammed it, is that right?
Cause in my experience, the CAN enabled version always needed constant messaging from a CAN controller to work.
Best regards!
-
Hey,
sounds great! I didn't know there was a "dobal" command. You were right when you first guessed something like that might exist.
About cell #14 powering the B;S, that could be possible of course, even though I would find that a bit strange. Also many people have failing onboard chargers and don't run into that problem.
But whatever the issue is, I have good hope for your battery. Keep us posted!
-
Hey,
is that Zero back in action?
-
Well I’ve learned a lot.
Simply doing dobal command is not sufficient. As all the other cells are discharging, the BMS is also using cell 14 up. So it’s like racing to the bottom.
The only way to actually make gains on the balance is to plug the battery in and continue topping up the battery, to charge up whatever was used on cell 14.
I am finally able to spend time with the bike daily, and have gotten the cell balance from 305mv, now down to about 265 mv. This happened over the course of a week or so.
When riding the bike with 300mv imbalance the bike will go into limp mode where I can’t go over 20-25 mph or so. Hopefully this behavior stops once cell balance is closer to balanced.
The need for a programmable charger is important because as the cell balance gets closer to 0, the total voltage is decreasing on the other cells.
This is a lot, I should have charged the individual cell 14 when I had the monolith open.
Other people may not have let the bike sit for 3 years without charging, this is what the previous owner did.
G
-
A but about the console commands: dobackgroundbal, and dobal, and stopbal:
Dobackgroundbal forces the pack to balance all cells. It gives a minuscule report on terminal, without all of the detail that “dobal” does.
This allows you to still use the console port for other things while it’s balancing.
To stop, type “stopbal”
The Dobal command completely takes over you terminal, and any key will stop balancing.
I used a raspberrypi 4 to connect to the com port, with Remote Desktop setup, so I can remote in via another computer.
G
-
I don't quite understand why you are trying to balance via console, something noone has ever really tried or needed.
If you just charge the battery up it'll balance automatically, a one time process, no riding or anything involved.
:)
-
fair point.
because I don't use the onboard charger, my battery contacts only stay connected for 1 hour, with my key inserted, headlight is on.
because of this, I can't just leave the bike plugged in charging / balancing all the time.
this is suboptimal, and I don't know how to get the contactor to stay connected without the key. because of this, I use the console to balance.
you're right, if I am @ 100% charge, then the battery will balance itself, but it requires me to turn the key every 1 hour to reset the timer.
I wonder if there's a way to extend the on-time per key turn.
G
-
So, if I understand you right, you are saying that the bike will only go 25 mph. It seems to me that two things could cause that behavior. Either the low cell voltage is dropping very low and the BMS is cutting back power or the internal resistance in all the cells is so high that it can only supply enough current to attain 25mph. Is there a way you could get the cell voltages and pack voltage when the bike is actually being driven? That would tell you what is happening. The pack could be damaged beyond repair. It also seems odd that you would have an indicated SOC of 58% when the pack voltage is almost 114 volts. That voltage is more like 95% soc. If the pack has high resistance you will see allot of voltage sag when a load is applied. It would be easy enough to hook up a voltmeter to the pack and ride it. Worth a try.
-
You can change the key timeout in the BMS console. Then the bike will stay on for longer than an hour:)
If you connect to the big brown anderson external charging plug, it has two aux pins. If you put 5 V on one of them and charge with at least 4A, the contactor will stay closed as well.
-
If you connect to the big brown anderson external charging plug, it has two aux pins. If you put 5 V on one of them and charge with at least 4A, the contactor will stay closed as well.
Have you tried that? See my message number nine in this thread. (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=9075.0)
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
If you connect to the big brown anderson external charging plug, it has two aux pins. If you put 5 V on one of them and charge with at least 4A, the contactor will stay closed as well.
When you say "If you put 5 V on one of them", do you mean on any one of them?
I use this one with my charger and it works. The picture shows the Anderson connector at the end of my charger, that plugs into the bike connector
-
@Gasoline : did your cell number 14 finally got refreshed and better in balance with the other cells?
BTW, the ZeroSpy for Zero Motorcycles (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bsc101.zerospy) Android application can give you in real time the min and max voltages of the cells in your battery, so that you can instantly estimate the balance during a ride. And it can record all these values with a time gap as close as 1 second, so that you can get the file and analyze it after a ride, as well as many other parameters (voltages, Amps, temperatures, SOC,...). It also has a lot of other interesting features.
-
Hey @gt13013 I didn't remember which one (or if both are possible). It probably simply is the one you showed:)
-
@DerKrawallkeks
Yes ;) . That is confirmed by this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziLAJFyW2ts), and it seems that it also works with 3.5 V