ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: MVetter on September 13, 2022, 11:06:09 AM
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https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/a41135284/zero-motorcycles-dsrx-electric-adventure-bike/
Pretty exciting time for casual offroad in the electric world!
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https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/a41135284/zero-motorcycles-dsrx-electric-adventure-bike/ (https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/a41135284/zero-motorcycles-dsrx-electric-adventure-bike/)
Pretty exciting time for casual offroad in the electric world!
How many KWH is the battery? I would rather hear that than a BS range spec.
-Don- Reno, NV
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As the article indicates, the sticker on the pack says 17.3kWh. We don't know what that means in nominal value at this point.
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As the article indicates, the sticker on the pack says 17.3kWh. We don't know what that means in nominal value at this point.
I must have missed that. I couldn't find the bike on Zero's website.
-Don- Reno, NV
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When I was looking to buy my Zero I got a quote for my old Yamaha TDM 900 at a dealer. He was checking the bike over and made a comment about seeing a bike when he visited the Zero factory that looked a lot like the TDM. Then went a bit tight lipped about the subject. I guess the DSR/X is what he was referring to, the headlight unit is quite similar.
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Some pictures from the website https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/a41135284/zero-motorcycles-dsrx-electric-adventure-bike/ (https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/a41135284/zero-motorcycles-dsrx-electric-adventure-bike/)
(https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/zero-motorcycles-dsrx-review-03-1663009769.jpg?resize=768:*)
(https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/zero-motorcycles-dsrx-review-06-1663010098.jpg?resize=768:*)
(https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/zero-motorcycles-dsrx-review-01-1663008740.jpg?resize=768:*)
(https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/zero-motorcycles-dsrx-embed-1663010347.jpg?resize=768:*)
The main thing i'm worried about with Cypher III is the magic charging; reading this forum makes me think all Cypher III vehicles have magic charing problems. Not sure if that is true tho.
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I wonder if it actually comes in two versions, wire wheels with dual purpose tyres and cast wheels with road tyres and whether there are any other differences. Would be better if they just stopped pretending that people take bikes like these off road, reduce the suspension travel to lower the seat and slap a 17" wheel on the front and call it a sport tourer.
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Anyone spotted the charge port yet? Have they put it somewhere it won't fill with water?
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It looks like it might be placed under a flap in front of the storage compartment.
(https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/z-dsr-x-gearpatrol-20-2x1a7328-1663008853.jpg?crop=1xw:0.9995002498750624xh;center,top&resize=768:*)
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TheRan I noticed the different wheels and tires as well. Wonder if you can choose or if it's a standard/premium situation. I guess they don't expect any mud with that tire hugging fender.
As for swapping it up as a sport tourer, the chareing is too slow to tour and at 85MPH max there is no sport in it.
We'll have see how that frame holds up. I don't know of anyone else who uses an off road trellis frame.
Kind of sad seeing Zero and Energica getting more miles by cutting the available power. I guess it's the Yammy Noob effect.
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It must be capable of more than 85mph. I'm guessing they were speaking from experience and the bike was limited for some reason. A sports tourer is just a style of bike, it doesn't mean it actually needs to be good at it. Like wise there are plenty of low power sport bikes that can barely break the speed limit or out accelerate an average commuter car.
EDIT: Specs are now up: https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/en-gb/model/zero-dsrx
10hp less than the SR/S and SR/F, a shame continuous power is 48hp and not 47hp because then it would be an A2 bike. Top speed is 112mph and it will maintain 100mph.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD7eqvr8Q88
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I posted a few comments and a link to another decent review in the News section, above. If you get the power tank version the nominal battery capacity goes up to something like 21 kWh and the weight likely will approach 600 pounds, before adding the available luggage. Charging options remain L1 and L2. L3 is still not in the cards for Zero. So no changes there. The operating system is now Cyber III+ (hang on to your hats ;) ). Price is something like $27,000 in the EU for the base model. The bike seems to be directed toward the European market and there was no mention of it being marketed in the U.S. at this time in the Pack review article.
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I posted a few comments and a link to another decent review in the News section, above. If you get the power tank version the nominal battery capacity goes up to something like 21 kWh and the weight likely will approach 600 pounds, before adding the available luggage. Charging options remain L1 and L2. L3 is still not in the cards for Zero. So no changes there. The operating system is now Cyber III+ (hang on to your hats ;) ). Price is something like $27,000 in the EU for the base model. The bike seems to be directed toward the European market and there was no mention of it being marketed in the U.S. at this time in the Pack review article.
Looks like it's available in the U.S. as well. https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/model/zero-dsrx
The first wave of the all-new DSR/X motorcycle is landing in dealers starting October 1st, in limited supply.
First come, first served. Reserve yours today.
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/reserve-now
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Cool. I saw this bike a bunch of times and even posted about it here.
Why wouldn't they roll out DC charging with this model? Makes sense for a touring bike.
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Cool. I saw this bike a bunch of times and even posted about it here.
Why wouldn't they roll out DC charging with this model? Makes sense for a touring bike.
Did you see it testing in Scotts Valley? And great question, they really should have. Is the pack voltage still the issue?
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Cool. I saw this bike a bunch of times and even posted about it here.
Why wouldn't they roll out DC charging with this model? Makes sense for a touring bike.
Perhaps because they would have to redesign the entire bike and not be able to use many parts from previous models. CCS needs to charge at least 200 VDC, IIRC.
But perhaps it about time for them to do such, if they want to be able to compete with Energica.
-Don- Reno, NV
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From de Zero website it looks like a full 17.3 Kwh hour pack. This propably means no Cyper buy upgrades anymore? ;D
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From de Zero website it looks like a full 17.3 Kwh hour pack. This propably means no Cyper buy upgrades anymore? ;D
Yeah, I noticed this on the website:
*DSR/X comes in stock with every available Cypher III+ feature
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Only the SR 2023 can be found in in the Cypher store.
Looks like Zero is listing!
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/nl-nl/cypher (https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/nl-nl/cypher)
And more accessoires can be bought when ordering de DSR/X trough te website :)
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/nl-nl/model/zero-dsrx
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SR/F
190 Nm, 110 hp, 227 kg
DSR/X
225 Nm, 100 hp, 247 kg
So we have 10% less power, 8% more weight, but 18% more torque. I wonder how that will translate in the 0-100 kph.
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Zelidar, some of that may come down to good old gearing changes.
Glad to see the reported top speed is better than 85MPH and that was sketchy on US roads.
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I wonder how far it goes before the first trail stone that winds up in the belt puts an end to the trip?
You gotta be kidding. Belt drive? :o
"Burly but nimble"..... I had to laugh at that. Few people can manage a bike of that heft offroad.
If people are buying it for style, to park at starbucks or whatever, have fun.
But to seriously go offroad? I'd prefer a Himalayan, frankly. Give me low ( field fixable ) tech, and light weight.
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The specified torque is at the motor so gearing doesn't matter, it would seem that it's possibly a different motor. Some articles have called it the 75-10X but the Zero site lists it as the same 75-10 as the other bikes.
However gearing is different, it's 22:90 instead of 20:90 so torque at the wheel should be closer to what the other bikes have. Also it uses a Moto X9 belt instead of the HTD Carbon and it's 25mm wide instead of 20mm.
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I wonder how far it goes before the first trail stone that winds up in the belt puts an end to the trip?
You gotta be kidding. Belt drive? :o
"Burly but nimble"..... I had to laugh at that. Few people can manage a bike of that heft offroad.
If people are buying it for style, to park at starbucks or whatever, have fun.
But to seriously go offroad? I'd prefer a Himalayan, frankly. Give me low ( field fixable ) tech, and light weight.
They are offering a chain drive option.
Let's be honest, the majority of big 'ADV' bike buyers are not purchasing them because they are doing a 'Long Way Roung' trip. They are purchasing them because they want to look like they are doing a 'Long Way Round' trip.
As you mentioned, the best motorcycles for true long off grid trips are often the most simple and easily fixed in the field. KLR is one example. The bikes have been around forever, barely changed, and parts/mechanics can be found in basically every country.
Finding modern BMW parts in the middle of Africa is probably a lot harder then KLR parts. While I'm sure it can be pulled off with enough planning, I highly doubt anyone is buying this Zero with some idea they are going to circumnavigate the globe on it.
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Very Nice! I wish zero would offer a good renewal option for current users. I have a DSR 2020 and I would upgrade at a reasonable cost, no questions asked!!! :D
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Did you notice that the Pack article mentioned that Zero says their engineers spent 100K hours designing the DSR/X. Maybe that is why they didn't have any time to address the magic charging issue. ;)
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Thanks Mike didnt see that about a chain option. Now it seems much less ridiculous.
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Will it be the same aluminum chain kit that is toast after 2000kms and eats up the splines of the motor shaft?
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Too bad it has a key! At least it has a clock, ambient temp gauge and a power socket that my FXE doesn't have.
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I hear also that it's got auto-parking-brakes like some BMWs (and Triumphs?) use.
Cas :)
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I can't recall seeing if the X has a backup feature as standard. At that weight it could use one.
It just occurred to me that it will be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison (hopefully published by someone other than the Noob ::) ) between the Energica Experia and the DSR/X. Both models seem quite comparable in both features, weight, power and price - if not styling and the ability to DC charge.
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It just occurred to me that it will be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison (hopefully published by someone other than the Noob ::) ) between the Energica Experia and the DSR/X. Both models seem quite comparable in both features, weight, power and price - if not styling and the ability to DC charge.
I spent some time crunching some numbers yesterday. The DSR/X's base price is $24,495 and the Experia's Launch Edition (all the bells and whistles) price is $25,880. But the DSR/X at that price doesn't come with anything. No racks, no luggage, blah blah blah. I added those, the Rapid Charger, Scott Harkless' Dual J mod, chain kit, and windscreen to get them as similar as I could. This is what I came up with:
(https://i.imgur.com/vaSPfFQ.jpg)
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Zero: Yesterday's technology at tomorrow's prices!
Yes, the mantle is being passed! Well, maybe shared.
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Electrek has jumped on the bandwagon with this article. What they didn't bother to mention was the existence of the Energica Experia when they said that the DSR/X is "The first long-range electric adventure motorcycle". Here is a link to their article: https://electrek.co/2022/09/13/zero-dsr-x-launched-as-worlds-first-long-range-electric-adventure-motorcycle/
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Electrek has jumped on the bandwagon with this article. What they didn't bother to mention was the existence of the Energica Experia when they said that the DSR/X is "The first long-range electric adventure motorcycle". Here is a link to their article: https://electrek.co/2022/09/13/zero-dsr-x-launched-as-worlds-first-long-range-electric-adventure-motorcycle/
With a 17" front wheel on the Experia, perhaps they are considering it more of a sport touring bike?
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Does the new Zero have a reverse?
That is a big reason for me to go with Energica.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Does the new Zero have a reverse?
That is a big reason for me to go with Energica.
-Don- Auburn, CA
I believe what Zero has done is take the DSR letter code for a model and moved it to the newer platform, gen 3, the one they ran up pikes peak lately. So chances would seem that for a price and agreeing to terms and conditions .. it has a reverse. Just a guess.
The video talks about how quiet it is.
The traction control would be a good topic for another video.
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Does the new Zero have a reverse?
That is a big reason for me to go with Energica.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Here is what the Electrek article says:
Another interesting feature found on the bike is Park Mode, which offers both forward and reverse control that is speed and torque limited. When wiggling around the 544-pound (247 kg) bike on even a slight grade, a reverse mode is a godsend.
A new hill hold feature keeps the bike in its position when stopping on a hill, letting riders take their hand or foot off the brake without rolling.
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It just occurred to me that it will be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison (hopefully published by someone other than the Noob ::) ) between the Energica Experia and the DSR/X. Both models seem quite comparable in both features, weight, power and price - if not styling and the ability to DC charge.
I spent some time crunching some numbers yesterday. The DSR/X's base price is $24,495 and the Experia's Launch Edition (all the bells and whistles) price is $25,880. But the DSR/X at that price doesn't come with anything. No racks, no luggage, blah blah blah. I added those, the Rapid Charger, Scott Harkless' Dual J mod, chain kit, and windscreen to get them as similar as I could. This is what I came up with:
Some corrections, Morgan. Understood that you're favoring the Experia, which is your prerogative. The DSR/X is not a "launch edition" - it's just one version, currently in serial production and shipping to dealers. Looking forward to the skeptics throwing a leg over and trying for themselves. It's impossible to convince people how good this bike really is (including the journalists) until they test ride it. The DSR/X has off-road capabilities that no other electric motorcycle offers with almost 10 inches of ground clearance, 7.5" of travel, 19" front wheel, and the most advanced off-road traction control and ABS that Bosch currently offers with their 10.3ME system. All other electric motorcycles, including our SR/F and SR/S are using the 9 series system. It also has 28 liters (7.4 gallons) of on-board storage WITHOUT any accessory luggage. For this reason, we believe this is the first true electric adventure bike vs. other bikes that would be classified as "sport" or "sport touring" motorcycles. Most owners may not use the bike's offroad capabilities, but this is no different from other motorcycles in this category (or other categories for this matter).
Richard, the DSR/X comes with a park mode which is a slow speed reverse and forward creep that you can quickly toggle back and forth between.
The belt is rated for full off-road use and there was not a single issue with a belt in 100s of journalist and dealer rides. The new belt system is over 2.5X stronger than the belt used on the SR/F and SR/S, which is in turn much stronger than that used on the older DSR platform. The rear sprocket is a ported sprocket, which allows debris to escape, and there are additional belt guards in place to prevent the debris from finding its way in to begin with. But... we do have a chain kit if someone really can't be convinced. All our test riders, which race MX and hare scrambles on weekends, choose the belt drive when testing the bike.
The windscreen is certainly included in the price and is fully adjustable, so it will work for most riders. The touring screen tends to be preferred by riders over 6' tall.
I learned at the launch event in Sicily from a journalist that spent significant time on bikes with CCS/DCFC that the 22kW charge power is overstated as he mentioned in most cases his bike would only charge at 4-6kW due to battery temperature limits. So... CCS certainly expands the available infrastructure (by ~10%) one can use and provides higher peaks in ideal conditions, but I wonder if this inconvenient truth about other factors tends to be left out of other OEs marketing talking points...
Carry on... ;)
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Some corrections, Morgan. Understood that you're favoring the Experia, which is your prerogative. The DSR/X is not a "launch edition" - it's just one version, currently in serial production and shipping to dealers. Looking forward to the skeptics throwing a leg over and trying for themselves. It's impossible to convince people how good this bike really is (including the journalists) until they test ride it. The DSR/X has off-road capabilities that no other electric motorcycle offers with almost 10 inches of ground clearance, 7.5" of travel, 19" front wheel, and the most advanced off-road traction control and ABS that Bosch currently offers with their 10.3ME system. All other electric motorcycles, including our SR/F and SR/S are using the 9 series system. It also has 28 liters (7.4 gallons) of on-board storage WITHOUT any accessory luggage. For this reason, we believe this is the first true electric adventure bike vs. other bikes that would be classified as "sport" or "sport touring" motorcycles. Most owners may not use the bike's offroad capabilities, but this is no different from other motorcycles in this category (or other categories for this matter).
Richard, the DSR/X comes with a park mode which is a slow speed reverse and forward creep that you can quickly toggle back and forth between.
The belt is rated for full off-road use and there was not a single issue with a belt in 100s of journalist and dealer rides. The new belt system is over 2.5X stronger than the belt used on the SR/F and SR/S, which is in turn much stronger than that used on the older DSR platform. The rear sprocket is a ported sprocket, which allows debris to escape, and there are additional belt guards in place to prevent the debris from finding its way in to begin with. But... we do have a chain kit if someone really can't be convinced. All our test riders, which race MX and hare scrambles on weekends, choose the belt drive when testing the bike.
The windscreen is certainly included in the price and is fully adjustable, so it will work for most riders. The touring screen tends to be preferred by riders over 6' tall.
I learned at the launch event in Sicily from a journalist that spent significant time on bikes with CCS/DCFC that the 22kW charge power is overstated as he mentioned in most cases his bike would only charge at 4-6kW due to battery temperature limits. So... CCS certainly expands the available infrastructure (by ~10%) one can use and provides higher peaks in ideal conditions, but I wonder if this inconvenient truth about other factors tends to be left out of other OEs marketing talking points...
Carry on... ;)
Appreciate the response and additional information. It's always nice to hear directly from those involved.
If I wanted to take a test ride, when will demo bikes reach dealers? Or is the game plan to deliver customer bikes first?
Also, I do think styling wise it looks great. It's grown on me the more I've looked at it.
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Some corrections, Morgan. Understood that you're favoring the Experia, which is your prerogative. The DSR/X is not a "launch edition" - it's just one version, currently in serial production and shipping to dealers. Looking forward to the skeptics throwing a leg over and trying for themselves. It's impossible to convince people how good this bike really is (including the journalists) until they test ride it. The DSR/X has off-road capabilities that no other electric motorcycle offers with almost 10 inches of ground clearance, 7.5" of travel, 19" front wheel, and the most advanced off-road traction control and ABS that Bosch currently offers with their 10.3ME system. All other electric motorcycles, including our SR/F and SR/S are using the 9 series system. It also has 28 liters (7.4 gallons) of on-board storage WITHOUT any accessory luggage. For this reason, we believe this is the first true electric adventure bike vs. other bikes that would be classified as "sport" or "sport touring" motorcycles. Most owners may not use the bike's offroad capabilities, but this is no different from other motorcycles in this category (or other categories for this matter).
Hey Brian. I only used the term "Launch Edition" because that is the only Experia option at this time; that's literally what the purchase option is called. There will probably be more announcements for additional options at EICMA, but right now there is only the Launch Edition Experia. And that option is a fully loaded one with luggage racks etc.
What I wrote was in no way meant to be a dig on the DSR/X. I am very much looking forward to trying one out; I even went to my local Zero dealer yesterday to inquire. They said they expect one in the next 30 days. The two bikes are attempting to attract similar but different segments of the market; there will be some overlap and competition as people are going to want to put the bikes side by side. The DSR/X very much has suspension and ground clearance meant for offroad while the Experia clearly does not. I feel my spreadsheet/graphic is fair, especially for what I suspect will be chiefly road-going owners of the DSR/X. This is just me speculating but I'll bet 90% of future DSR/X owners never take it on a dirt road.
That being said I'd love to see y'all redo this but with DSR/X bikes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0GsTP3KC_U
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Here is what the Electrek article says:
Another interesting feature found on the bike is Park Mode, which offers both forward and reverse control that is speed and torque limited. When wiggling around the 544-pound (247 kg) bike on even a slight grade, a reverse mode is a godsend.
A new hill hold feature keeps the bike in its position when stopping on a hill, letting riders take their hand or foot off the brake without rolling.
Spounds like some great improvements!
My Bullet Brake works very well as a hill hold on my Zeros as well as on my Energica.
I plan on putting a BB on my Experica on whatever year I receive it! If I am still alive by then!
BTW, do you know whatever happened to your girlfriend in Santa Cruz, Crissa? She has not been online for many months.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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The information regarding charging and the battery capacity on the Zero website is rather confusing (I suppose intentionally). Max capacity is 17.3 kWh, nominal 15.2 kWh, but supposedly charged to 95% within 60 minutes with a 12.6 kW charging setup. Not to mention the times to 110%. ...I know that this is their way of masking the pay to unlock features and all I can see is a tried and proven tactic....if you can not convince them, confuse them. BTW. they forgot to mention the continuous power of 48 HP.
If a capacity of a battery is given, that should be 100% and that is the maximum literally and not 110% and with no mention to which value this percentage is related to.
The charge time to 95% within an hour at 12.6 kw suggests a 14.4 battery. As does the range (80 Miles at 70 MPH) compared to a 14.4 DSR (78 Miles at 70 MPH).
The 14.4 is also the max capacity so I really do not understand the 17.3 and 15.2 claims.
They should clearly state the Ah value or kWh value, which you get with the price paid for the motorcycle and simple and clear information on the charge time to that value (which is 100%) at the time of purchase.
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The DSR/X comes with all the Cypher unlocks included (battery capacity and charging speed, as well as the on dash navigation and parking mode) so I don't get why they would gives specs for a configuration that doesn't exist.
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95% of 15.2 is 14.4....how do you get that from a 12.6 kw charger in an hour? And no charger is 100% effective, so I doubt it will supply the whole 12.6kw.
the capacity could be calculated with the consumption and the rated range at a given speed, but they opted to give it in empg instead of kw per mile.
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No I agree that the numbers don't add up, I just don't think they're trying to deceive people by giving the best numbers based on options because those options simply don't exist. When they say it's 95% then it's 95% of 17.3kW/h because that's all that exists for the DSR/X, and they also give the same numbers for the SR/S and SR/F now (speccing them as 17.3, are the Cypher upgrades no longer a thing for 2023 bikes?) although they have more range at 93 miles versus 85 for the DSR/X.
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I learned at the launch event in Sicily from a journalist that spent significant time on bikes with CCS/DCFC that the 22kW charge power is overstated as he mentioned in most cases his bike would only charge at 4-6kW due to battery temperature limits. So... CCS certainly expands the available infrastructure (by ~10%) one can use and provides higher peaks in ideal conditions, but I wonder if this inconvenient truth about other factors tends to be left out of other OEs marketing talking points...
This guy better call the dealer then, his battery is broken. My DCFC motorcycle charges with a normal battery around 27kW and when the battery is warm that drops to 14kW, at which point it's full. And the infrastructure point is completely dependent on where you live, in western Europe the providers are removing 11kW+ 3-phase chargers from fast charge stations because nobody uses them anymore (Fastned, anyone), given the much broader acceptance of CCS here. Not to mention we can use Tesla SC, which dramatically increases the number of chargers. In urban areas there is an abundance of 11kW 3-phase stations and about 10% 22kW stations, but if you're travelling more than a charge worth on the highway then you'd have to leave the highway and head into town to get a fast(er) charge. I have owned a DSR with 8kW charging and used a SR/S full option for about 6 weeks so been there, done that.
Speaking if inconvenient thruths, have you fixed the magic charging yet?
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charging up a 17.3 battery in 1 hour with a 12 kW charger is the new magic charging :) (and if no charger is around, you can use the old magic charging instead)
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I think I got it now, but I am still convinced that they are deceiving their audience.
The nominal capacity of the battery is 87.5% which is 15.2.
For them this is 110% for some strange reason
And then they claim a charge to 95% to be one hour.
For this you have to imagine the 15.2 to be 110% and you get 13.1 kW as the 95% charge target (but still optimistic, but they cover their back with the additional info, that this may vary).
At first glance you see:
max capacity is 17.3 kW
95% in one hour
and then you have "reviews" from the launch, where the reviewer simplifies it even further (as he was told on the presentation) that the standard charger charges it up in two hours and the extra charger in one hour.
For me this is false advertising.
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This guy better call the dealer then, his battery is broken. My DCFC motorcycle charges with a normal battery around 27kW and when the battery is warm that drops to 14kW, at which point it's full. And the infrastructure point is completely dependent on where you live, in western Europe the providers are removing 11kW+ 3-phase chargers from fast charge stations because nobody uses them anymore (Fastned, anyone), given the much broader acceptance of CCS here. Not to mention we can use Tesla SC, which dramatically increases the number of chargers. In urban areas there is an abundance of 11kW 3-phase stations and about 10% 22kW stations, but if you're travelling more than a charge worth on the highway then you'd have to leave the highway and head into town to get a fast(er) charge. I have owned a DSR with 8kW charging and used a SR/S full option for about 6 weeks so been there, done that.
Speaking if inconvenient thruths, have you fixed the magic charging yet?
Where I live it gets very hot in the summer, but the lowest my DCFC charge rate ever got is 11 kW. I’ve heard of 21.5 kWh models dropping to 9 kW, but never 4-6. That would be unusual in the extreme, and probably calls for a warranty repair, as you say.
Also, it’s not just an Energica problem (although they are the most affected by heat). The charge rate on Zero’s also drop when it’s hot. My old ‘17 SR with 3.3 kW external charger and 2.5 kW charge tank never charged faster than 5.3 kW, sometimes even dropping into the 4’s. I didn’t own it long enough to see the winter rates with the external, but I suspect they would have been better.
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Here is a link to the Motorcycle.com article of the new 2013 Zero DSR/X model. It is the longest and most thorough review I have read of this new model to date: https://www.motorcycle.com/features/2023-zero-dsr-x-review-first-ride.html
BTW. they gave it's transmission's performance a perfect score of 10. ;)
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Also, it’s not just an Energica problem (although they are the most affected by heat). The charge rate on Zero’s also drop when it’s hot. My old ‘17 SR with 3.3 kW external charger and 2.5 kW charge tank never charged faster than 5.3 kW, sometimes even dropping into the 4’s. I didn’t own it long enough to see the winter rates with the external, but I suspect they would have been better.
My Zero SR wouldn't charge at all when above 100F after a long ride last year. I got home many hours late because of it.
But now I know to NOT use the OBC on hot days, use only my external chargers. The heat from the OBC raises up to the battery just above it.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Also, it’s not just an Energica problem (although they are the most affected by heat). The charge rate on Zero’s also drop when it’s hot. My old ‘17 SR with 3.3 kW external charger and 2.5 kW charge tank never charged faster than 5.3 kW, sometimes even dropping into the 4’s. I didn’t own it long enough to see the winter rates with the external, but I suspect they would have been better.
My Zero SR wouldn't charge at all when above 100F after a long ride last year. I got home many hours late because of it.
But now I know to NOT use the OBC on hot days, use only my external chargers. The heat from the OBC raises up to the battery just above it.
-Don- Auburn, CA
I hadn't thought about it before, but that does make sense. I have never experienced a warm battery before as I never seem to charge when the ambient temperature is much above 60 degrees F.
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I hadn't thought about it before, but that does make sense. I have never experienced a warm battery before as I never seem to charge when the ambient temperature is much above 60 degrees F.
If I had to wait for that here or Reno, I wouldn't be able to charge all summer. Not even at midnight. You charge at the perfect temperature, but if you only use the OBC, you're not going to get much heat anyway. I normally charge my Zero SR at 8KW when on the road. I sometimes have to hog-up two J-plugs to charge it.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I hadn't thought about it before, but that does make sense. I have never experienced a warm battery before as I never seem to charge when the ambient temperature is much above 60 degrees F.
If I had to wait for that here or Reno, I wouldn't be able to charge all summer. Not even at midnight. You charge at the perfect temperature, but if you only use the OBC, you're not going to get much heat anyway. I normally charge my Zero SR at 8KW when on the road. I sometimes have to hog-up two J-plugs to charge it.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Lately I have only been using the DeltaQ as that seems to balance my battery pack better than when using the OBC and I like the slower charging and less wear and tear on the OBC. Plus, its cooling fins make a nice hand warmer. I now only use the OBC when I visit my daughter and recharge before returning home.
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Reading the comments on the MOTOBOB DSR/X review I noticed how many 'range' numbers get thrown around by people.
- "I'll enjoy an "adventure" on this bike. 80 miles should get me to the shops and back."
- "With its 290 km (180 mile) range, the Zero DSR/X is only good for about two and half hours riding."
- "If the future of adventure bikes is 45 miles before heading home for a recharge, we’re going to have to come up with a new name for the segment. I’d hardly consider a 45 mile trip an adventure."
- "So 85 miles at motorway speeds, and I bet that's unladen without luggage. So let's be generous and say 80 miles at motorway speeds when loaded up.. So at around 65 miles you need to start looking for a fast charger (assuming you paid for the fast charger upgrade), and then charge for at least an hour. So 1 hour of riding at best, then 1 hour at least of charging. Oh deary deary me. What a torrid adventure that would be."
- "EV Adventure bike? WTF are they thinking. It's bloody useless. 100 mile range. Heavy. Expensive."
- "Price does not match the picture with lots of optional parts! "Adventure" below 100 miles range is a joke only."
- "24 grand for roughly 100 miles range....what a f**ing JOKE!"
I think this shows just how confusing the 'range' issue is for most riders. Most of these are ICE guys most likely so they are already hating the motorcycle for one reason or another. This is an issue in the EV car and motorcycle industry. But it sure is annoying to read.
Also, just like with EV cars, everyone wants insane range numbers before they are even interested. One guy said he would need 500mile range before he would consider an EV motorcycle. 500????
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You're never going to win those people over so you have two choices: ignore them or mock them. Only choose the latter if you're good and ready to double down and start a fun flame war.
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This Saturday I rode my 2018 S with PT from my home in Pacifica, down Highway 1 to 92, then up the hill to Highway 35 and into the Santa Cruz Mountains to Alice's Restaurant. After having breakfast with some friends, I rode back down Highway 84 to the coast, then headed north along Highway 1 back to Pacifica. When I arrived home I had traveled 75 miles and my SOC was showing 43%. No magic charging. On the way to Alice's I was traveling at 55 mph except when I got to Skyline Boulevard when I slowed to 40 mph as the highway was soaking wet from heavy drizzle and was a bit slippery. On the way back along the coast I was moving at 60 mph. :)
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I got an email from Zero about the DSR/X yesterday and noticed at the bottom they are still doing their 2022 Electric Experience Tour and will be in my area of Florida in November. So I signed up for a test ride session. I hope they have DSR/X models for test rides although they aren't listed. But they will have them in Georgia in October?
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/events-home#535&filter=United%20States
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I did the factory demo ride today of the DSR/X. I'm very impressed with build quality, was a really fun ride. I felt the handlebars were a bit far forward. I would probably have to get risers or something.
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I did the 11:30 ride. Did we cross paths? I seem to recall a Michael in the roll call.
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I did the 11:30 ride. Did we cross paths? I seem to recall a Michael in the roll call.
Yup, that was me! I think I talked with your brother for a few minutes while we looked at the Ducati fairing zero lol. Are you going to do a write up on your thoughts? I'd be curious to hear based on all your experience in the Zero/Energica world.
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I made a Facebook post in the Zero group, actually. Brief thoughts are that the bike is tall and wide. Comfortable riding position and I love the grippy footpegs. Mirrors totally usable. Bike did not feel as nimble on the road as compared to the SR/F and SR/S.
And yeah that faired Zero is Callum's pet project. He's really put a lot of effort into that bike.
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I really enjoyed it. Must have missed MVetter by a few hours as I also rode in on my Energica.
I found it very comfy and planted. Didn't seem to have any issues with the power delivery even though we were the last group. Mine was in Sport mode but I forgot about Canyon. I did not like the lack of Regen. I liked the windscreen a lot.
Overall nice bike but odd choice to not include fast charging on a touring bike. Kind of misses the point on that one in a big way.
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The lack of 'fast charging' is a bit of a use case thing I think. For us Europeans the AC charging makes some sense when doing long non-highway trips since western Europe is riddled with 11/22kW AC charging stations (You'll need the 22KW ones to make full advantage of a 13kW charger). Fill times will still be steep with a max of 12.6kW charging a 15.6kWh battery but better than the 6kW of the current DSR offerings.
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The lack of 'fast charging' is a bit of a use case thing I think. For us Europeans the AC charging makes some sense when doing long non-highway trips since western Europe is riddled with 11/22kW AC charging stations (You'll need the 22KW ones to make full advantage of a 13kW charger). Fill times will still be steep with a max of 12.6kW charging a 15.6kWh battery but better than the 6kW of the current DSR offerings.
And on top of that you usually don't arrive at 0%, so charge times could still be fine in most cases.
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Doesn't work in the USA. Almost all of our level 2 chargers are 6kW
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Doesn't work in the USA. Almost all of our level 2 chargers are 6kW
I think that's a bit of a simplification, considering Tesla destination chargers can often be higher then 6kw. And you can hopefully get the DJ-RapidCharge from eMoto, although that's an additional cost.
But this is another issue of having to buy Tesla Taps and aftermarket parts to make it viable.. which sucks.
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Doesn't work in the USA. Almost all of our level 2 chargers are 6kW
But here is a 70 amp (~17 KW) J-plug. (https://www.plugshare.com/location/44582)
Here is another. (https://www.plugshare.com/location/44583)
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I saw my first Zero DSR/X today parked across from Alice's Restaurant. The color combination is OK, but I think it should be flashier to draw attention to this new model. Photo attached.
My friends and I talked to the owner of the bike for a few minutes. He works at the Zero factory. He mentioned that Zero is ramping up their staff, after cut backs due to the Covid pandemic, and are on their way to over 350 employees. He said that they will be manufacturing more motorcycles next year than they have during the last couple of years.
We also asked him about the Polaris investment and he said that Zero would be designing and manufacturing the power trains for their recreational vehicles. So that sounds like a solid line of work to keep the company busy and maybe developing a new motor and battery packs (my speculative hope ).
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They've already sorted the powertrains for the Polaris vehicles. Fun fact: they put a liquid cooling block on the inverters for the Polaris EVs.