ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: NEW2elec on September 03, 2022, 04:41:56 AM
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A Zero rep posted this on the Zero owners FB page:
Hello Zero Owners,
As many of you are aware we are getting ready to release Cypher upgrades this fall for owners with applicable models. We’d like to thank you for your patience as we complete the work on this program and provide you with some information about the path ahead.
Since we first introduced Cypher Store and Cypher III+ upgrades, the Zero Motorcycles team has continued to pay careful attention to the thoughts and feedback of those in this group, our beta testing team, as well as the broader motorcycle community. There has been some clear feedback that certain upgrades may feel like they are intentionally ‘paywalled’ for the sole purpose of profit to Zero and not for the benefit of our valued owners. It is our intention to always put the owner’s experience at the center of what we do as we drive future innovations in two-wheeled electric transportation. Therefore, we are making some changes.
Over the following week, we will be notifying all MY22 motorcycle owners of these Cypher upgrade changes. The actual process to complete these upgrades will be outlined and emailed in detail by October 1, 2022.
Thank you for your continued support!
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My bet is on the features that haven't required new hardware and should have just been a firmware update being made free, that being reverse and navigation.
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Yes. Might also include faster charging and extended battery - for me these just use existing capacity that you just should not use too often to keep battery life. That would be a smart marketing move against competition.
Navigation would be great - now i need to take my connected watch to get them. Just having them on the dash would be great.
My bet is on the features that haven't required new hardware and should have just been a firmware update being made free, that being reverse and navigation.
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Next step : bike specs & software made opensource ;-)
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I'm a 2022 SR/S owner who still only partially understands the trim differences.
Prior to whatever Cypher store changes are coming, would purchasing the following options through the store have made my Standard functionally equivalent to a Premium?
100% Faster Charging : $1495
20% Extended Range : $2195
Heated Grips : $195
I'm confused on whether or not the Premium comes with the added range.
If those three packages are the difference between Standard and Premium, then it seems reasonable for Zero to offer them either as a bundle for $2,100 (the difference between Standard and Premium at time of purchase) or to at least price them such that they total to that amount. Without this change, the total to $3885 which is, frankly, outrageous.
I don't think it would be fair to Premium purchasers to simply turn them on for those of us that paid less for our bikes.
It'll be fun to see how this plays out - it's frankly hard to imagine them finding a path through this that doesn't piss off some group of folks.
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I'm a 2022 SR/S owner who still only partially understands the trim differences.
Prior to whatever Cypher store changes are coming, would purchasing the following options through the store have made my Standard functionally equivalent to a Premium?
100% Faster Charging : $1495
20% Extended Range : $2195
Heated Grips : $195
I'm confused on whether or not the Premium comes with the added range.
If those three packages are the difference between Standard and Premium, then it seems reasonable for Zero to offer them either as a bundle for $2,100 (the difference between Standard and Premium at time of purchase) or to at least price them such that they total to that amount. Without this change, the total to $3885 which is, frankly, outrageous.
I don't think it would be fair to Premium purchasers to simply turn them on for those of us that paid less for our bikes.
It'll be fun to see how this plays out - it's frankly hard to imagine them finding a path through this that doesn't piss off some group of folks.
Not quite, the Premium has 10% more range hence why it also has an extra 10% more range option in the Cypher Store. This last 10%, whether on a Standard or Premium bike, has to be selected before charging the bike. Basically Zero doesn't use the full voltage by default but you can choose to charge it further when needed.
The 10% extra range on the Premium cost's $1295, so if you take that away from the $3885 that it would cost to upgrade a Standard model you get a $2590 difference, or $490 extra for a Standard upgraded to Premium spec.
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The 10% extra range on the Premium cost's $1295, so if you take that away from the $3885 that it would cost to upgrade a Standard model you get a $2590 difference, or $490 extra for a Standard upgraded to Premium spec.
Got it. Thanks.
For fun, I attached a mock up of what the new pricing might look like for the SR/S. It assumes:
- Premium owners will get range, charging, parking for free
- Standard owners will pay to close the gaps between Standard and Premium. The after-market surcharge will remain identical to what it was (a total of $490 across the options). This preserves the benefit Premium owners got by purchasing the higher-end trim at time of sale and it also maintains the incentive for dealers who purchased (and may still have in their inventory) Premium trims
- 10% Extended Range goes away as a standalone concept. It's included in Premium and comes with the 20% Extended Range option on Standard. It is reduced to $900 which is what the original pricing imputed (20% Extended Range [Standard] - 10% Extended Range [Premium])
- Navigation is a $195 add on for both trims
This could be close to what they do. Of course they still have to figure out what to do going forward because it's not clear the market ever wants to deal with this stuff. You could imagine them having to go back to a world in which trim differences are based on hardware differences which is what they clearly wanted to avoid.
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We will see - unless they intend something like this it was not a great communications move to make a fuzzy announcement, let users dream aboit what they could get and disappoint them even if you offer things for free (but not they ones you let them dream about). :-)
The 10% extra range on the Premium cost's $1295, so if you take that away from the $3885 that it would cost to upgrade a Standard model you get a $2590 difference, or $490 extra for a Standard upgraded to Premium spec.
Got it. Thanks.
For fun, I attached a mock up of what the new pricing might look like for the SR/S. It assumes:
- Premium owners will get range, charging, parking for free
- Standard owners will pay to close the gaps between Standard and Premium. The after-market surcharge will remain identical to what it was (a total of $490 across the options). This preserves the benefit Premium owners got by purchasing the higher-end trim at time of sale and it also maintains the incentive for dealers who purchased (and may still have in their inventory) Premium trims
- 10% Extended Range goes away as a standalone concept. It's included in Premium and comes with the 20% Extended Range option on Standard. It is reduced to $900 which is what the original pricing imputed (20% Extended Range [Standard] - 10% Extended Range [Premium])
- Navigation is a $195 add on for both trims
This could be close to what they do. Of course they still have to figure out what to do going forward because it's not clear the market ever wants to deal with this stuff. You could imagine them having to go back to a world in which trim differences are based on hardware differences which is what they clearly wanted to avoid.
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Yeah and it's all tax deductible.
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Thanks for letting us know OP.
But Zero, I'm sad you missed the entire season here in Norway. When the upgrades roll out, my MC roll into storage for the winter...
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A new version of the Next Gen App is out. I had to re-enter my login credentials and haven't yet linked it with my bike.
Not much appears to be free though :-\.
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I'd assume you'd have to link it to your bike before it could tell you what might be free.
I can link it to my bike but can't login* so I have no prices and disabled "add to cart" buttons. Strangely the navigation seems to work within the mobile app. Does that mean it would work with my 2020 SR/F if I had the new dash?
* Trying to login says "User is not registered yet". However, if I try to create an account with the same email I'm told "User already exists. Please login". If I try to get round it by registering with a different email address I'm told my bike is already registered with another account. ::) Brilliant, Zero!
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I have a '22 SRS/Standard. The options I see in the updated iOS app map to what I see on the Zero Cypher site. This includes prices for items that Zero announced would be free. I got a mail yesterday telling me that they'll tell me what to do on the 19th but that mail didn't say anything about pricing. Guess we'll have to wait until then to see what actually happens.
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I linked my bike with the new App today. Currently 540 $ for what I want. At this price I decided to wait and see before pressing on that "PAY NOW" button.
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KTM has an interesting variation on Zero's Cypher Store upgrades. They give you all the bells and whistles upfront when you buy their new 890, but only for the first 1500 miles. And then they take them away. Once that happens you can return to your dealer and pay to have one, some, or all of the upgrades added back into your bike - hopefully permanently. Here is a video discussion regarding this marketing plan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wbfMQpiUpQ&t=2s
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KTM has an interesting variation on Zero's Cypher Store upgrades. They give you all the bells and whistles upfront when you buy their new 890, but only for the first 1500 miles.
Nothing new. I lost a ton of features on my 2022 Chevy Bolt (purchased in August of 2021) after a couple of months or so. On-star, XM radio and a lot of other stuff I don't care about all that much and didn't use anyway. But the car still runs the same and that is all I care about.
To own a paid-off Tesla, it will cost around ten bucks per month for stuff that would be more difficult to not have. So I pay that.
But I don't use either car much.
See here. (https://mashable.com/article/tesla-fsd-subscription-extra-features)
-Don-
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Almost all of my motorcycle buying education was obtained during the 20th century. I guess I am just not ready for the new wave of marketing that first gives something to you then takes it away. While an interesting idea and one that could certainly benefit both the motorcycle owner and the manufacturer and their retailers, the concept is just too foreign for me to feel comfortable with. With my motorcycles and my car, once I buy them I really never want to visit the dealer again if I can avoid it.
How this "here it is and there it goes" feature marketing plan works out is going to have a lot to do with the cost of the upgrades and maybe how far away your dealer is. And if ever ends up being a subscription model, you can count me out. I live on a fixed budget and I always try to minimize and regulate my monthly expenditures. I am already irritated paying my utility, telephone, cable TV and internet access monthly bills. I don't want another one to pay every month - especially as I like to own and ride multiple motorcycles. It would drive me crazy if I had to pay a bill every month for each bike that I owned just to keep it running the way I expect.
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It would drive me crazy if I had to pay a bill every month for each bike that I owned just to keep it running the way I expect.
Just buy older used bikes and the problem is solved.
I expected used ICE cars to raise in value near year 2035. That is unless the gas price keeps on going up way too much too fast compared to electricity.
-Don- Reno, NV
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After a phone call with my Zero dealer who could confirm me the procedure, and result, I went on and bought the parking mode option for my SR/F MY2020. All I needed was the latest firmware on the dash, possibly also on the MBB. I used the latest Next Gen App. Payment took place within the app, offering different card options. Once confirmed it took a bit of patience before that the disabled and grayed-out "PARK MODE" function becomes activated and selectable. Turning the bike off and back on didn't change anything. In my case, when I checked again about 20 minutes later (I was on a little tour), it was selectable.
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@Zelidar - Does your 2019 SR/F have navigation included? If the earlier models (mine's a 2020) get navigation then I'll probably go for a dash update.
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After a phone call with my Zero dealer who could confirm me the procedure, and result, I went on and bought the parking mode option for my SR/F MY2020. All I needed was the latest firmware on the dash, possibly also on the MBB. I used the latest Next Gen App. Payment took place within the app, offering different card options. Once confirmed it took a bit of patience before that the disabled and grayed-out "PARK MODE" function becomes activated and selectable. Turning the bike off and back on didn't change anything. In my case, when I checked again about 20 minutes later (I was on a little tour), it was selectable.
Do you get the on-dash directions on your bike too? I would buy parking mode, but as I don't see the directions on the dash I am worried my SR/S is somehow not updated enough (even though I've updated everything I can).
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How this "here it is and there it goes" feature marketing plan works out is going to have a lot to do with the cost of the upgrades and maybe how far away your dealer is.
I don't see what your issue with it is. It's better than the current model, you get to try the features out for free for a limited time to see if you would make enough use of them to justify the cost. Some people have paid for and tried out the navigation feature and it's garbage, and doesn't really have any advantage over just using your phone on a bar mount. Those people could have saved some money and any that were considering it wouldn't have to take the same risk. The nearest dealer is irrelevant, you don't have to take your bike in for any of it.
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According to Zero, there isn't a SR/F MY2019 even though it could be bought in the spring of that year already. In the new app it is detected as MY2020.
The only two options available for my bike are "PARKING MODE" and "10% FASTER CHARGE". Nothing about navigation. Since I am already using Google Maps, that does not bother me at all.
I forget to mention, moving backward with the assistance of the motor works fine.
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@Zelidar: I did not completely get it: did your dealer have to do anything to your bike so that you got the Park Mode running? Or is it sufficient to bring the MBB and BMS firmware up to the latest version? I also have a MY2020 SR/F and for me the app says "Dealer installation required" - whatever that means.
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This spring I visited my dealer who, following Zero's instructions, updated all possible firmwares of my bike. It included the firmware of the dashboard where these new functions can be controlled. From my experience, this was the only "Dealer installation required" part of it, and that message is indeed misleading.
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Okay got it thanks. So then that part is that the dealer needs to update the dash firmware. You cannot update the dash on your own I guess.
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For some of those firmware they need to connect a maintenance tool/software designed by Zero via a cable directly plugged onto the mainboard (behind the plastic cover behind the front wheel). Updates free of charge, but worthwhile for Zero because, down the road like me this week, I gave them 195 $ for this "parking mode".
That amount was just the sweet spot for me for such a function. If it were any more expensive or, much worse, enclosed in a reccuring fee, that would have been a no-go.
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It seems, you are in the same position with your SR/F 2020 as I am: I want (need) the parking mode, but I don't want the new dash design.
What do you think regarding the new dash design now that you have it?
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What do you think regarding the new dash design now that you have it?
I am 57, so at night now presbyopia keeps me from reading the time of day and the SoC. I suppose the UI design team or the drivers/testers at Zero Motorcycles were all below 50 years of age.
They have chosen a font that is too small although there would have been enough unused space to use a bigger font.
Also, using the main circle to display the speed, in addition to the large digits, is redundant thus wasteful. It was more useful to get the SoC from there as well.
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I'm 59 ... and will have to change it. Oh man, why are they doing this?
I really hope they will improve it - or just do it again as it was.
SoC so small and speed twice ... - I just don't understand why ...
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If you can't see that are you sure your sight is good enough to ride a 110 hp bike ?
What do you think regarding the new dash design now that you have it?
I am 57, so at night now presbyopia keeps me from reading the time of day and the SoC. I suppose the UI design team or the drivers/testers at Zero Motorcycles were all below 50 years of age.
They have chosen a font that is too small although there would have been enough unused space to use a bigger font.
Also, using the main circle to display the speed, in addition to the large digits, is redundant thus wasteful. It was more useful to get the SoC from there as well.
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My eyesight (at 54) is reasonable. Whilst I find the numbers are readable, the grey text aroudn them (BATTERY, MOTOR, AMBIENT, INSTANT, etc.) really washes out in daylight and might as well not be there.
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If you can't see that are you sure your sight is good enough to ride a 110 hp bike ?
What matters is everything that is 50 cm and further away, like the road for example.
But I appreciate your concern, if it were a problem I probably would not have reached 51'000 km on this superb machine, always with tuned maximum torque and power.