ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Harley LiveWire Forum => Topic started by: JaimeC on May 10, 2022, 10:02:13 PM
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They were supposed to reveal it today...
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Looks like it's at 12:40pm CST: https://www.livewire.com/delmar
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https://electrek.co/2022/05/10/harley-davidsons-livewire-unveils-more-affordable-del-mar-electric-motorcycle-teases-3rd-model/
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Here ya go. From the LiveWireEV channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq9N9CwRky8
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H-D previews their new LiveWire S2 Del Mar electric motorcycle model in this review. I was surprised by this statement in the article: "Reservations for all 100 units of the Launch Edition got scooped up within 18 minutes of the pre-order window opening." ??? : https://www.motorcycle.com/new-model-preview/2023-livewire-s2-del-mar-launch-edition-first-look.html
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So it’s a 2016 Zero SR in 2023 with half the range, how exciting!
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H-D previews their new LiveWire S2 Del Mar electric motorcycle model in this review. I was surprised by this statement in the article: "Reservations for all 100 units of the Launch Edition got scooped up within 18 minutes of the pre-order window opening." ??? : https://www.motorcycle.com/new-model-preview/2023-livewire-s2-del-mar-launch-edition-first-look.html
So... $18K to be a beta tester for them. Nice...
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So it’s a 2016 Zero SR in 2023 with half the range, how exciting!
..with about twice the power, and designed by someone with actual eyes.
Cas :)
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..with about twice the power, and designed by someone with actual eyes.
SR motor 52kW ~70hp
Del Mar motor peak 80hp
80 / 2 = 70
math checks out
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I got on the reservation list right at 12:40 yesterday. Was really disappointed with the low range, heavy weight, heavy price, and lack of level 3 charging. If this was a 10k bike, maybe it'd be OK, but this spec sheet seems like it should be for the light weight bike. Unless something drastically changes, I won't exercise my reservation when the time comes.
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I got on the reservation list right at 12:40 yesterday. Was really disappointed with the low range, heavy weight, heavy price, and lack of level 3 charging. If this was a 10k bike, maybe it'd be OK, but this spec sheet seems like it should be for the light weight bike. Unless something drastically changes, I won't exercise my reservation when the time comes.
You realize there are NO bikes in that price range capable of DCFC, right?
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I got on the reservation list right at 12:40 yesterday. Was really disappointed with the low range, heavy weight, heavy price, and lack of level 3 charging. If this was a 10k bike, maybe it'd be OK, but this spec sheet seems like it should be for the light weight bike. Unless something drastically changes, I won't exercise my reservation when the time comes.
You realize there are NO bikes in that price range capable of DCFC, right?
Certainly I do. Doesn't mean I can't be disappointed that this bike lacks it. It does not compare well to Zero's in my opinion. Price parity will have to happen some day. Given the One, which came out 3 years ago isn't much more expensive (has dcfc), I didn't think it was too big of a leap to think they could have gotten those specs for a little under 20k.
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..with about twice the power, and designed by someone with actual eyes.
SR motor 52kW ~70hp
Del Mar motor peak 80hp
80 / 2 = 70
math checks out
We all know the SR in reality kicks out only 35bhp after a minute because it overheats. The Del Mar appears to be liquid cooled (probably lower amperage too?)
Cas :)
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I got on the reservation list right at 12:40 yesterday. Was really disappointed with the low range, heavy weight, heavy price, and lack of level 3 charging. If this was a 10k bike, maybe it'd be OK, but this spec sheet seems like it should be for the light weight bike. Unless something drastically changes, I won't exercise my reservation when the time comes.
You realize there are NO bikes in that price range capable of DCFC, right?
Certainly I do. Doesn't mean I can't be disappointed that this bike lacks it. It does not compare well to Zero's in my opinion. Price parity will have to happen some day. Given the One, which came out 3 years ago isn't much more expensive (has dcfc), I didn't think it was too big of a leap to think they could have gotten those specs for a little under 20k.
The One cost nearly $30K when it first came out. I guess once they removed the Harley logo from the tank they were able to knock $8K off the MSRP but they got the money they expected or they likely wouldn't've cut the price. Bear in mind it still costs about the same as an Energica that has FASTER DCFC capability AND L1 and L2 (albeit at only half the rate of an S/DS/SR/DSR with Charge Tank) capability. The One only has DCFC and L1 capability making it practically useless for the majority of the free public charging stations available.
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I got on the reservation list right at 12:40 yesterday. Was really disappointed with the low range, heavy weight, heavy price, and lack of level 3 charging. If this was a 10k bike, maybe it'd be OK, but this spec sheet seems like it should be for the light weight bike. Unless something drastically changes, I won't exercise my reservation when the time comes.
You realize there are NO bikes in that price range capable of DCFC, right?
Certainly I do. Doesn't mean I can't be disappointed that this bike lacks it. It does not compare well to Zero's in my opinion. Price parity will have to happen some day. Given the One, which came out 3 years ago isn't much more expensive (has dcfc), I didn't think it was too big of a leap to think they could have gotten those specs for a little under 20k.
The One cost nearly $30K when it first came out. I guess once they removed the Harley logo from the tank they were able to knock $8K off the MSRP but they got the money they expected or they likely wouldn't've cut the price. Bear in mind it still costs about the same as an Energica that has FASTER DCFC capability AND L1 and L2 (albeit at only half the rate of an S/DS/SR/DSR with Charge Tank) capability. The One only has DCFC and L1 capability making it practically useless for the majority of the free public charging stations available.
Accurate statements there for sure. At 22K if the One had 3kw charging (at least decent for a long lunch for example) and a little more battery, it'd be killer. It's an excellent quality bike. I'm sure the Del Mar will be to. The stats just seem lacking comparatively.
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I keep seeing low-mile 21.5 kwh Energicas pop up on Craigslist for about $18-19k, and new old stock 2020 Harley ELW's seem to list for $20-22k and sell as low as $18k. When this thing finally comes out in 2023 or '24, those bikes should be selling around the $15k price point. I don't know how LiveWire expects to sell many of these S2's at that price with such a dramatic step-down in capability, even with better looks than an S-platform Zero. $15k is still a lot of money, enough that people in that bracket won't want to accept huge sacrifices on a bike that can't really be used as a highway commuter.
I think a proper middleweight competitor for the SR and DSR would be great for the e-moto market, but this doesn't quite hit the mark IMO.
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The launch edition price is 17,699. Add all the fees and will be close to 20k. My local dealer has a new fxs 2021 for 9999. I can't fathom it worth nearly double.
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The launch edition price is 17,699. Add all the fees and will be close to 20k. My local dealer has a new fxs 2021 for 9999. I can't fathom it worth nearly double.
Bear in mind your ONLY charging option with an FX is L1. At least the Del Mar can accept L2... but at what rate remains to be seen. I've gotten spoiled by the 6kW charging rate on my Charge Tank equipped S (and soon to be SR). When Zero works out all of the niggling bugs in their Gen3 bikes I'd definitely be interested in one of those with 12kW capability. I realize in the States most L2 chargers are 6kW, but many Tesla Destination chargers put out 14kW and those things are all over the place where I live, and I have the necessary adapter.
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The launch edition price is 17,699. Add all the fees and will be close to 20k. My local dealer has a new fxs 2021 for 9999. I can't fathom it worth nearly double.
Bear in mind your ONLY charging option with an FX is L1. At least the Del Mar can accept L2... but at what rate remains to be seen. I've gotten spoiled by the 6kW charging rate on my Charge Tank equipped S (and soon to be SR). When Zero works out all of the niggling bugs in their Gen3 bikes I'd definitely be interested in one of those with 12kW capability. I realize in the States most L2 chargers are 6kW, but many Tesla Destination chargers put out 14kW and those things are all over the place where I live, and I have the necessary adapter.
Very true on the FX. That is a plus for the del mar, level 2. But at a much higher price. I'd say many/if not most commuters can charge overnight, no issues. Level 2 certainly opens the doors a bit, but even at 6kw that's a long lunch break for anything with a decent sized battery. I double J plug with my DSR at around 11kw, which is much better for all day riding (300 plus miles).
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Here is a deep dive on what's known about the Del Mar from the EV Rider YT channel with Diego Cardenas who is basically Mr. Livewire.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ka291NR5uA
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Partial specs say 184 lbs TQ, no top speed or HP.