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Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: MrMogensen on April 28, 2022, 03:15:22 PM

Title: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: MrMogensen on April 28, 2022, 03:15:22 PM
Let's imagine 2 Ribelles (1 RS and 1 non-RS) they ride the same route with mixed highway, biways and city driving... Same medium pace without full power.

Will there be any noticeable difference at all in the range?

I do understand the concept that full power on an RS version requires more power than non RS => Just like Tesla Model 3 Long Range vs. Performance (being same motors and all).
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: Skidz on April 28, 2022, 03:19:29 PM
Simple napkin-physics suggest getting an object from A to B at X speed with Y drag will result in the same amount of energy used, so the RS and non-RS versions should use the same amount of energy. My Model3 LR uses roughly the same amount of energy as my loaner M3P used.
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: MrMogensen on April 28, 2022, 03:34:31 PM
Yes that is what I thought.

I remember reading that RS software is tweaked for more performance and chain is stronger. I guess sprockets are still same?
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: MVetter on April 28, 2022, 08:46:03 PM
Same chain. There's a 1-tooth difference in the front sprocket between the RS and non-RS models.
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: Stonewolf on April 29, 2022, 12:31:08 AM
The motor is running at higher RPM at a given speed so it accelerates faster but can't go as fast (it can still hit the limiter and IIRC even the Ego RS can hit its higher limit).

In theory it has to work harder to maintain speed but I think that only matters at higher speeds and on that basis I went for the RS package over standard even though I mainly tour. I get roughly 115 miles on a full battery riding to a 65 (indicated) cruising speed (style and conditions obviously have an effect) and I'm satisfied that squares up reasonably with the promoted 123 mile figure.
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: PWM on April 29, 2022, 01:46:16 AM
At sustained highway speed no different due to the non-linear effect of aero drag being the dominant load component - power delivery SB same.  At city stop-n-go the RS is expected to perform better because it has slight gearing advantage to break standing inertia and more efficient at regen due to slightly higher rotor speed - it's a cumulative thing.  Matters little IMO.
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: ultrarnr on April 29, 2022, 04:47:28 AM
So if the motor on the RS spins faster for a given speed compared to the non-RS then it would seem the RS version's speedometer would be even less accurate than the non-RS and have a lower top speed.
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: Stonewolf on April 29, 2022, 05:01:17 AM
So if the motor on the RS spins faster for a given speed compared to the non-RS then it would seem the RS version's speedometer would be even less accurate than the non-RS and have a lower top speed.

I'm pretty sure it's not measured from the motor, that would be strange
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: PWM on April 29, 2022, 07:18:59 AM
I'm pretty sure it's not measured from the motor, that would be strange
Hmmmm, really?

Wiring diagram shows quadrature feedback from motor.

The Bosch anti-lock system is not the speedo source if the early generation bikes are factored - the speedo error is the same.

The RS feature buys you a sticker and VCU code modification to retain consistent speedo error and retain consistent speed limiter.
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: MVetter on April 29, 2022, 10:55:37 AM

I'm pretty sure it's not measured from the motor, that would be strange

Of course it is.
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: princec on April 29, 2022, 01:44:44 PM
Always thought that is an entirely daft engineering decision when there are two ABS monitors to take data from instead which are unaffected by gearing.

Cas :)
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: MoneyFor on April 29, 2022, 04:55:43 PM
If I read and understand you just didn't have a discount and the dealer just goes to the checkout again for that discount that he puts in his own pocket.
I would never agreed with this kind of bs.
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: MVetter on April 29, 2022, 08:59:35 PM
If I read and understand you just didn't have a discount and the dealer just goes to the checkout again for that discount that he puts in his own pocket.
I would never agreed with this kind of bs.

whut
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: Skidz on April 30, 2022, 12:47:12 AM
Ah, he's mixing up threads here ;)
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: Hans2183 on April 30, 2022, 09:48:48 PM
You should ask Sam, he has a Ribelle and a Ribelle RS now so can perfectly compare.
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: MrMogensen on May 01, 2022, 02:03:45 PM
Same chain. There's a 1-tooth difference in the front sprocket between the RS and non-RS models.

From Energica site - about difference between Ribelle RS and non-RS

"To handle this additional power the existing final drive chain has been changed to a Regina 15/44 525 O-Ring Chain...."
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: MVetter on May 01, 2022, 08:46:44 PM

"To handle this additional power the existing final drive chain has been changed to a Regina 15/44 525 O-Ring Chain...."

And what do you think that means?
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: PWM on May 02, 2022, 12:08:37 AM
Silly and effective marketing bling.
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: MVetter on May 02, 2022, 12:24:19 AM
What it actually translates to is a very goofy way of saying "same chain 1 tooth difference on the front sprocket"

15/44 means 15 tooth front sprocket 44 tooth rear sprocket on the RS models using a 525 chain

versus

16 tooth front sprocket 44 tooth rear sprocket on the standard models using a 525 chain
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: MrMogensen on May 03, 2022, 01:06:20 AM
... Those bastards  ;D
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: Skidz on May 03, 2022, 12:03:23 PM
So that's where they get the 0.2 sec difference in 0-100 times from: Different gearing. And you pay the premium for the software that has to take in account the different gearing for the speedo...

Nice.
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: princec on May 03, 2022, 03:01:09 PM
So, one 32 bit float changed in the EEPROM...

Cas :)
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: MrMogensen on May 03, 2022, 08:37:37 PM
Don't forget the sticker :)
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: Hans2183 on May 05, 2022, 12:29:54 PM
I don't know if you asked but he did it anyway  8)

https://youtu.be/Vd8AmSchhXI

I personally suspect that it's mostly the difference in riders that made the difference in consumption here. Can be tested by swapping riders (and riding that route again). If not just the difference in wieght and height of riders it can also be in riding style. Even when they ride together maybe one is not as steady with the throttle or has regen set differently requiring more input.

The different gearing will result in different RPM for same speeds. I wouldn't expect that to result in a 10% difference though. If it is noticeable it'll likely be a lot less. 
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: MrMogensen on May 06, 2022, 01:28:36 PM
I don't know if you asked but he did it anyway  8)

I personally suspect that it's mostly the difference in riders that made the difference in consumption here. Can be tested by swapping riders (and riding that route again). If not just the difference in wieght and height of riders it can also be in riding style. Even when they ride together maybe one is not as steady with the throttle or has regen set differently requiring more input.

The different gearing will result in different RPM for same speeds. I wouldn't expect that to result in a 10% difference though. If it is noticeable it'll likely be a lot less.

At the end of the video where he concludes the 10% difference he mentions the windscreen to be the biggest difference. The non-RS has a the windscreen and that had the 10%+ on the RS.
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: MVetter on May 06, 2022, 08:58:54 PM
He's wrong. That's not how windscreens work.
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: MrMogensen on May 07, 2022, 02:59:27 AM
Zero claim the SR/S has higher range than SR/F due to the fairing?
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: MVetter on May 07, 2022, 03:45:50 AM
where?
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: princec on May 07, 2022, 06:05:23 AM
Someone did, I recall, claim a 15% increase at one point, but I think it was swiftly debunked as you have to lie completely prone behind the fairing.

Cas :)
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: MVetter on May 07, 2022, 06:51:35 AM
Oh, the SR/S will definitely get more range than the SR/F. Two things:

1.) Zero doesn't officially claim it anywhere

2.) That is significantly more than a windscreen
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: Hans2183 on May 07, 2022, 11:14:25 AM
I've seen what Sam said but I agree with Morgan, from my own experience adding a windscreen does nothing noticeable to the range. Tested on an SRF and an SS9+. I got more range by tucking behind the windscreen but that also worked by just tucking in behind an imaginary windscreen :D.

Also on the other statement I'm with Morgan here. Zero gives the exact same range numbers for SRF and SRS. The only thing they claimed at some point is that by tucking in you get more range on the SRS. That claim can be made for the SRF also.

Anyhow that's all no comparison as the SRS has fairings compaired to the SRF, not just an added windscreen. The analogy here would be to compare an SRF with and without windscreen.
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: MrMogensen on May 11, 2022, 09:04:54 PM
I am not saying I agree but Zero DOES claim it.

When looking at the SR/S on the official website then scroll down a little and it says...

"Inspired by cutting edge aerospace design, the look of the SR/S is rooted in its aerodynamic fairing. Like all things Zero Motorcycles, form follows function. When you lean into the cockpit and get behind the fairing you will be rewarded with a 13% improvement in highway efficiency and range with the SR/S versus its award-winning sibling, the SR/F. Sit up and you’ll discover a more upright and relaxed riding position that feels as good as it looks."

One could argue that you'd have to lie flat on your stomach with legs stretched backwards to get to those 13% :o
Title: Re: Range => RS vs. non RS
Post by: princec on May 12, 2022, 02:18:36 AM
There, I knew I'd seen it officially claimed somewhere.

Cas :)