ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: princec on March 30, 2022, 06:33:18 PM
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Just overtaking someone, not particularly fast. Belt had just over 7k miles on it. No warning or anything, just suddenly lost drive mid-overtake. Sucks.
I will ponder my life's choices as I sit by the side of the road waiting for the AA.
Cas :)
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That is the worst. Snapping belts are not fun.
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Hmm, 7k. Maybe chains aren't so bad after all.
Better luck with the next belt.
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Just overtaking someone, not particularly fast. Belt had just over 7k miles on it. No warning or anything, just suddenly lost drive mid-overtake. Sucks.
I will ponder my life's choices as I sit by the side of the road waiting for the AA.
Cas :)
which year and make of Zero? I have very close to 20K miles / 32 km on my 2017 Zero DS. My most used bike. A few less miles on my SR. Both are still on the original belts. Have you recently checked the belt alignment and to see how tight it was?
I will change mine at every other rear tire change.
BTW, I was at the local Zero shop here the other day, and it seemed to me that all the belts on the NEW Zeros were way too tight. They also had a used Zero that seemed just right, from what I could tell by hand.
-Don- Reno, NV
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2020 SR/F. Belt tension correct at last check a few months ago admittedly but it didn't look odd when I set out this morning (I usually give it a twang). The overtake was in Sport mode and started at about 45mph (so I guess quite close to peak torque), and it went ping at maybe 70mph. Road was smooth and free of debris.
Is it a warranty item? I'm sure they shouldn't fail so soon.
Cas :)
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Just overtaking someone, not particularly fast. Belt had just over 7k miles on it. No warning or anything, just suddenly lost drive mid-overtake. Sucks.
I will ponder my life's choices as I sit by the side of the road waiting for the AA.
Cas :)
Your belt got you about 3 times as many miles as mine did.
A few months ago I was stopped at a red light and when it was time to go, the bike only moved a few dozen feet; barely enough to get me to the other side. And I wasn’t particularly hard on it, just your normal acceleration after a full stop.
I spent a lot of time and money trying to convert it to chain but for a couple of reasons decided to scrap that project.
Being that I truly hate the idea of being stranded again due to another belt snapping for no apparent reason, decided to buy the center stand for the bike (indispensable if you need to install a new belt on the road) a short socket drive that fits perfectly under the seat and the socket for the rear axle and torx bit for the belt tensioners.
After carefully folding a spare belt in half (have to be very careful there as carbon fibers are sensitive to rough twisting and one can easily damage the belt) and storing it in the bike’s cubby”,
I am prepared to replace my belt on the go if it happens again.
The only other thing I remember I added to my kit was a nail clipper to break the tie wraps around the electrical connector that goes to the tail light.
Once you know what needs to be done to replace a belt (at least on the 20 SR/F) it goes really fast; the design on these bikes have simplified replacing the belt a lot.
I think Zero used a belt one or two sizes too small for the torque on these bikes.
There is a Ducati with a massive belt I see in the showroom when I go to my Zero dealer for parts. Now, that is a belt that makes me envious and if it wasn’t an ICE bike, I would consider getting one. I like to see things engineered with “a marging for error” but I am digressing. . . .
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No you're dead right, that belt should be nearly twice as wide as it is.
Cas :)
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No you're dead right, that belt should be nearly twice as wide as it is.
Cas :)
I wonder if that would reduce the range of the bike. And I also wonder if thicker would really help. IMO, belts breaking are kinda like flat tires. You just cannot predict when or if it will happen.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I wonder if that would reduce the range of the bike. And I also wonder if thicker would really help. IMO, belts breaking are kinda like flat tires. You just cannot predict when or if it will happen.
I'm not aware that Harleys have any issues with snapping belts at the rate as Zero does.
And that is most certainly due to Harley sizing the belts much, much wider.
Yes, that costs performance. Of course!
But if a belt snaps, you have exactly zero performance.
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BTW, I was at the local Zero shop here the other day, and it seemed to me that all the belts on the NEW Zeros were way too tight. They also had a used Zero that seemed just right, from what I could tell by hand.
That is spot on. I've always thought the belt on my 2021 SR/S was too tight, but the dealership assured me it was okay (they also assured me that the headlights pointing upwards were okay... bunch of idiots). After the first tire change, my trusted mechanic tightened the belt to the best of his knowledge and now there is a lot less noise coming from it and there is probably also less drag (not enough change to affect the range though).
I have no idea how long it will last, but it's probably not a bad idea to have a spare belt. I just need to find another supplier as I have no intentions throwing any more money at the dealership where I bought the bike.
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I have no idea how long it will last, but it's probably not a bad idea to have a spare belt.
The problem is:
Carrying a spare belt is easy.
Carrying the necessary tools to switch the belt is annyoing, but doable.
Actually switching the belt in the side of the road (or even in the wild, when you drive a DSR or FX) is a pain in the rear.
I'd rather call roadside assistance in that case.
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I didn't mean to say I'd carry it with me. I have ways to get the motorcycle home. I'm more concerned that the dealership won't have a spare part and I'd be grounded for a couple weeks. Ontario summers aren't that long and I'd rather be able to fix the belt asap if it snaps.
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The SR/F belt should in theory be dead easy to change by the roadside given the right tools (very few tools are needed I think). However.... I'd really rather not have to worry about it snapping in the first place. I wonder why Zero haven't addressed this after all this time?
Cas :)
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I just need to find another supplier as I have no intentions throwing any more money at the dealership where I bought the bike.
I got my spare from here: https://www.af1racing.com/OEM-Zero-Drive-Belt-151-Teeth-ZM30-08226
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And for anyone in the UK I got mine from NYA:
https://www.nyaparts.co.uk/shop/electric-bike/motor-and-drivetrain/belt-151t-11mm-pitch-20mm-wide/
£221.99 and it was processed today by overnight delivery so I should be getting it tomorrow! Not bad service at all.
Cas :)
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I once did a poll here (but was before the SR/F was available) about how many Zero belts have snapped. It was surprisingly very low. Most Zero owners NEVER had a belt snap. Many bikes had a lot of miles on the original belt.
In fact, the extra small belt on the 2016 DSR, Shadow, the moderator here, wore his belt teeth down to nothing when he changed his belt. Never snapped.
I have wondered what makes some of these belts snap so soon. One reason could be Zero sometimes has them way too tight from the factory! I was just looking at a NEW Zero SR/S here in Reno, at Eurocycles. The belt was obviously way too tight, just like all the bolts on my Zeros. All way too tight. To the point that tools break trying to loosen some of them.
I would be afraid to ride it a block with the belt that tight. No slack at all.
I don't believe for a second that Zero follows their own torque specs on new bikes, from what I have seem with mine. And the same goes with their belts, at least in some cases. See here. (https://youtu.be/fOMwuhotyng?t=243)
-Don- Reno, NV
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Mine was running at 55kg as I recall last time I measured it.
Cas :)
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In a parallel discussion on a discord channel regarding the same topic, sudden load changes appear to be a relevant factor for belts snapping.
So, if you ride nicely paved roads, you are probably less likely to encounter issues compared to someone on a bumpy road or riding in the wild, as you will have situations when the wheel is suddenly spinning free (and thus spinning up quickly) and then ever more suddenly stopping, when some solid surfaces is getting in contact with the tire and quickly decelerating it.
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Definitely. Though this time, the road was smooth, and AFAICT, grit-free... it was just ordinary in every way. I think what it comes down to is that the belt Zero have specified is just not strong enough for the job.
Cas :)
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In my case, the area was repaved just a few months back and the surface was as smooth as they come. And totally flat too.
One factor that doesn’t help the longevity of these belts is the lack of a tight tolerance for the rear sprocket’s machining.
As mentioned by me in another thread on this forum, if you measure the roundness of the sprocket with a good caliper, you would find terrible highs and lows areas, as you turn the sprocket under the caliper.
Maybe mine was worse than most but I think the machining of this part is just poor.
I took my sprocket to an advanced machine shop to have two solid chain sprockets I had purchased to convert my bike to chain (to cut the big hole in the center and the 5 holes for the bolts to attach it to the wheel) and the machinist told me that when he “scanned” it with his machine —CAD— it showed to be quite off.
As an off-centric sprocket turns, the tension on the belt has to fluctuate and perhaps, on the bikes where this is more severe, the belt is more likely to snap.
This is pure speculation but something to think about specially if you keep the tension as recommended by Zero, on the high side.
I keep mine on the lower end of the range.
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When I bought my 2018 S its belt was very tight as set at the factory (as was the belt on my 2014 S). Right at the upper limit of tension, 75Kg as I recall. When I took it in for the 600-mile servicing I asked the technician to check the tension and he verified that it was set properly. When I changed my rear tire at 6K miles, I reduced the tension to around 50Kg. So far at 10K miles the original belt is holding up and doesn't show any unusual wear.
For some reason the factory assemblers set the belt tension very high. But I have always seen the same thing when buying a new chain-drive ICE Japanese motorcycle. The chain slack would be undetectable and as soon as I returned home with the new bike I would loosen the chain to achieve the correct slack. The only reason that I can think why this is done is that maybe the factory believes that the owner will never check the chain after purchase and they somehow feel that setting it very tight will allow it to loosen up after a few thousand miles. And of course any damage due to a tight chain would not be covered by the bike's warranty, since chains and bearings are considered "wear items" and are exempted from most motorcycle warranties. >:(
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la mia cintura ha 45000km , e la cambierò quando sostituirò il pneumatico posteriore. quella di dotazione l'ho cambiata a 14000 km perchè l'ho spezzata atterrando da un salto con gas aperto , appena la ruota a toccato il terreno si è spezzata.
cambiarla non è semplice occorre togliere il forcellone .
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la mia cintura ha 45000km , e la cambierò quando sostituirò il pneumatico posteriore. quella di dotazione l'ho cambiata a 14000 km perchè l'ho spezzata atterrando da un salto con gas aperto , appena la ruota a toccato il terreno si è spezzata.
cambiarla non è semplice occorre togliere il forcellone .
Treanslates to:
"My belt has 45000km, and I will change it when I replace the rear tire. I changed the supplied one to 14000 km because I broke it landing from a jump with open gas, as soon as the wheel hit the ground and broke.
changing it is not easy, it is necessary to remove the swingarm."
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On my DSR '16 the first belt broke at 4000km, there was a fault at the rear sprocket that slowly chewed away the belt. The sprocket was replaced under warranty, the belt wasn't. Second broke after 16kkm, lost traction off-road and when regaining traction suddenly (Stones under the sandy road) i heard a "Twang!" sound of the belt skipping a tooth. Tooth snapped right off and made it home but didn't make it to the dealer 40km's away because of the belt skipping more and more teeth, eventually snapping. Third belt at around 30kkm, just snapped on the highway at 100km/h. Luckily I was on the right lane. The fourth belt is still under, going strong at 46kkm.
To avoid being without a belt I ordered a spare one, so if it snaps it can be replaced directly whilst a new one can be ordered.
Anyway, switching to chain soon. Will save a bit of stress when driving highways with an 'old' belt :P