ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => Electric Motorcycle News => Topic started by: JaimeC on March 24, 2022, 10:54:12 PM
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According to Cycle World (surprised this wasn't picked up by the usual electric motorcycle sites):
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-news/can-am-new-electric-motorcycle/
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Now an announcement with renderings and video
https://news.brp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/brp-announces-return-can-am-motorcycle-all-electric-lineup
https://electrek.co/2022/03/25/can-am-announces-it-will-launch-two-new-electric-motorcycles-for-on-and-off-road-riding/
coming in 2024
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This item isn't going to do what is going on at the begining of the video.
Just to discuss the picture
They must be envisioning the 15,000 rpm type motor.
That small drive helical gear must not be a good choice for efficiency or longevity.
It does not show how the swingarm assembly is mounted at the pivot.
The regeneration and that tensioner slider thing would be questionable.
I see a place for drive line coushioning.
And how close could another entity come to this overall idea without violating this patent?
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That is interesting news. It is nice to see Can-Am make use of Alta's technology. That belt drive tensioning concept reminds me of what Buell was using before they got the H-D treatment. I hope they are successful as the electric motorcycle market could use some more competition to speed along the technology.
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It's really interesting news... Can-Am have the clout to actually make a difference.
Cas :)
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Update video from Can-am showing prototypes in testing, mostly of the Origin dual sport model including stop motion section showing ground up assembly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7zYgWnz6eA
In the comments to the video, Can-am reply to questions that specs and prices are coming in August, but it's also implied that the Pulse will arrive in August.
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another update video talking about the motor (episode 4) from a few days ago. One clip shows 2170 style battery cells, noted by one of the commenters at 2:09 in. Again in the replies to comments Can-Am say specs, pricing, and availability date coming in August...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuK3qVQun8I
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I wonder what kind of final drive system that bike has? It looks to me like it might be a fully enclosed belt drive like is used on some scooters.
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I think you're right about it being a belt, unfortunately no shots of it in the videos with its cover off but it doesn't sound chain-y. This also solves the complaints I've heard about zeros losing belts on gravel roads.
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Fully enclosed belt drive is such a no-brainer I wish Zero would get their act together on that...
Cas :)
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From the linked July 24th Advpulse article:
"Looking closely at BRP’s patents, the battery is a load bearing structure in the chassis and is suspected to be made up of a total of 490 cells. Featuring a liquid-cooled power storage, the battery is expected to have a range of over 100 kilometers (~62 miles)"
They don't say where the info on the suspected number of cells comes from. I suspect the liquid cooling is actually the motor and not the "power storage" as photos & the videos show a small radiator at the front of the battery, not unlike Energica bikes. They do say level 2 charging, which is disappointing but not unexpected unfortunately. Not much else in the article that wasn't covered in Can-Am's videos, but they do say they've already been invited to the US launch event in September.
https://www.advpulse.com/adv-news/more-details-teased-as-can-ams-new-e-dual-sport-gets-stress-tested/
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The battery could very well be liquid cooled too. Both pull in heat, and heat is going to be a much bigger problem with the battery than with the motor in the long run.
Aaron
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Heat exchanger (it's not actually a radiator) size is kind of a weird one because IIRC yes you need more surface area to dispose of more heat energy but also if your temperature difference is low you also need more surface area to keep transfer rates up. This is where heat pumps are great because they allow you to run a hotter heat exchanger.
If it can't do DC charging then you have to ask how much heat the battery is gonna build up during charging (the heaviest heat load) in the first place. I realise you can get up to 22kW from AC but the most common outlets tend to cap off at 7 and a 100km intended range is not going to be intended for long journeys (yes yes, small battery Energicas) and will likely be slow charged almost exclusively at home/office.
Overall, despite the short range there's some nice stuff on show. Stressed member battery boxes are a step in the right direction, I think the Ducati race bike is a view on things to come with everything bolted onto a power pack or single piece tub even if for road use the CF has to go.
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Using the battery as a structural member is all well and good for keeping weight down but I have two concerns. First off, in an accident it means it's more likely that not only does the frame get damaged but potentially also the battery, which makes up the majority of the cost of the bike. Even if the bike wasn't going to be repaired, someone with a more conventional bike with a damaged frame isn't likely to move everything over to a new frame, that now means the battery has to be scrapped instead of potentially going on the used market and into another bike. Secondly when the time comes for a battery replacement you're no longer undoing some bolts and dropping it out of the frame, you're completely tearing the bike apart to remove everything from the battery. More time consuming, more expensive, and it's going to require more specialised equipment.
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You could mitigate this with secondary protection. But let's face it, insurance premiums are going to be sky high, until batteries become commodity items.
Cas :)
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You mean stuff like frame sliders or crash bars? I'm thinking more about head on collisions that would usually bend and crack the headstock area of a regular frame. With Can-am going with a separate bolt on piece it will probably be stiffer than a regular frame, which means it transfers more force into the battery casing.
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You could mitigate this with secondary protection. But let's face it, insurance premiums are going to be sky high, until batteries become commodity items.
Cas :)
That is a good point. The third-party liability-only insurance for my Zero is about 25% more than it was for my BMW R1200RS. (I never wanted to pay for collision insurance.)
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I think the big issue with insurance and repairability is getting shops and manufacturers to stop clutching their pearls and start cracking open battery boxes to work on the guts inside.
The current situation is like saying "oh no you have a bad exhaust seal, guess we'll just throw the engine away".
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I can pretty much tell you right now, any battery that was in an accident, you are probably NOT going to find anywhere in any secondary market. They don't want the liability attached to that.
With the boogey man mentality with Lith batteries, AND insurance companies, I don't see them letting many people crack it open and see what makes it tick. There isn't a whole hell of a lot to 'fix' in a battery case. Failed BMS, bad cell, replace both is about all to do, or maybe a bad weld lets loose or something. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Energica will already do that for their battery packs, they are not afraid to open their own packs up to conduct repairs etc.
Aaron
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There have been plenty of batteries from totalled Zeros that have been sold on. Same with all the electric car batteries out there on the used market, they're just sold as seen with no guarantee.
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and the insurance companies are good with you putting one of those in your vehicle?
They tend to get real squirrely with the batteries, especially when every time a fire happens everyone goes apeshit over it.
Aaron
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Insurance have no need to know that the battery has been replaced, never mind where it came from. You don't notify insurance when you replace any part of a vehicle, gas or electric, as long as it's a near identical part and doesn't effect performance or value.
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Energica are indeed more than happy to have your dealer get all in there and work on the battery but elsewhere it's a different story, especially in the car world.
There's a guy around the corner from here who runs a Prius battery shop out of his garage, regularly see him hanging out with the door open testing cells from some taxi that's pulled up on the drive.
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From the linked July 24th Advpulse article:
"Looking closely at BRP’s patents, the battery is a load bearing structure in the chassis and is suspected to be made up of a total of 490 cells. Featuring a liquid-cooled power storage, the battery is expected to have a range of over 100 kilometers (~62 miles)"
Those details make me think it'll be around $10K at least and not do much that an Ebike wouldn't do for $1500 and no licensing requirement
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CanAmMotorcycles Youtube homepage now has a livestream scheduled for August 19th at 7:30pm:
"The World Premiere of Can-Am Motorcycles
Scheduled for 8/19/24, 7:30?PM
Join us on August 19, 2024, at 9:30 p.m. EDT for the long-awaited reveal of the new Can-Am electric motorcycles! Get a glimpse of the future of two-wheel riding with our groundbreaking electric models and their cutting-edge features."
https://www.youtube.com/@CanAmMotorcycles
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34 minutes and counting down to their youtube presentation for the date Aug 19.
I stopped by a Can Am dealership in Palmer Ma. today and asked how many of the electric bikes they were getting in. Guy says essentially quite likely none. They would need to buy equipment and are expecting to be pressured into putting in chargers in the future. Have not decided but I get the sentiment. We will see in the presentation if they say how many dealers have signed on. Very similar to asking New Holland tractor dealerships if they will be carrying the 65 hp electric T4 tractor that computes out to holding 8 gallons of diesel in energy.
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A video from Fortnine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--lGOPT0kZM
While the Origin seems great and the short range would work for me (my 7.2 DS works well for me, living near the countryside I don't have far to go to go off-road) it's just hard to justify that price of £15.4k when a new DS is only £800 more. Of course they're not comparable in terms of capability, the Origin is 50kg lighter while the DS has a fair bit more power and range so it's like comparing a dual sport to an adventure bike, but for the money you're getting a lot more battery and better components with the Zero.
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8.9kwh battery with liquid cooling for both it and the motor. Fully encased, tensioned chain in oil. 50 min level 2, 6.6kw charge time for 20-80% via j1772. Origin has 115km range on knobby tires, weighs 400lbs, $18999 CAD. Pulse weighs less, maybe 370ish lbs iirc...
Kinda rather have for 12-15kwh battery and faster j3400 nacs charging @450-475 lbs (but can understand also they probably wanted to keep it under 400 for essentially mainly commuter purposes), even if only 12kw level II (more 20kw L2 Flo chargers are being installed recently in Canada now that Flo makes one, and Tesla destination chargers are often 11-16kw if I recall)
Fortnine's take:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--lGOPT0kZM
Can-Am's walk a round vid of the Origin (more videos on their channel)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyyeFNU9XOA
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It's the battery and charger that are liquid cooled, not the motor (or at least I've not seen any mention of it). I don't know if it's actually that necessary with that sort of power output and charging speed (I assume about 6kW).
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At the 3:30 point of the second vid I linked, they mention the motor is liquid cooled, and a bit later I think they mention the charger, battery, and motor are cooled in the same system.
Edit - it's actually earlier, at 2:40 ish where they say all four components are liquid cooled (battery, motor, inverter, charger)
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Battery charger and motor around the timestamp I put here.
https://youtu.be/py9XuzgRFTQ?t=72
I thought he said something else maybe inverter somewhere in the two videos I have watched plus the live one.
Only 2 year warranty. Awful lot of buttons near the grips to have closeness to the bikes that entered off road events say 30 years ago, they want to go back to a total closed course bike as their dna. :)
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Since they've actually got the batteries liquid cooled, it seems kind of a miss to not have put a 20ish kw DC fast charger on them with Tesla connector, even if it brought the weight up to 425lbs... Would probably add a couple thousand to the cost as well I guess... I do get that they're essentially just commuter bikes though given the size, power, & range. They'll perhaps sell some in Montreal and Vancouver, with I believe an up to $2500 izev credit from the federal government (does Quebec also have an incentive that would apply on top of that?).
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No information anywhere on when these will make it into showrooms or to customers. One can pre-order, which just gets you into contact with a dealer...
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This article states the weight slightly higher and also mentions that the origin has tubeless tires:
"Pulse weighs 387 lbs (175.5 kg), Origin is 412 lbs (187 kg)"
also power numbers:
"Rotax-built liquid-cooled motor makes 47 horsepower, 53lb-ft/72Nm of torque and has reverse mode"
Can-Am claims zero-60 mph time is 3.8 seconds (4.2 for Origin)
The writer wishes for at least fork preload adjustability on the Origin. Mentions it would pair well with f-150 lightning/Rivian (also Cybertruck/GMC Sierra/Chevy Silverado EV) for base camp charging & day rides, which is kind of how I currently use my drz400 & honda Pilot (albeit at a fraction of the upfront cost & I can still do 300km+ rides with my 16l tank). One of those trucks with a gosun rooftop charger and an Origin on a mototote hitch carrier could be interesting.
https://www.overlandexpo.com/compass/first-ride-review-new-can-am-origin-adv-electric-motorcycle/
https://gosun.co/pages/ev-solar-charger
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No information anywhere on when these will make it into showrooms or to customers. One can pre-order, which just gets you into contact with a dealer...
Frequently asked questions
When are the Can-Am motorcycles going to be delivered?
The all-new electric motorcycles will be available at dealerships in early 2025. However, if you pre-order your vehicle right now, you’ll be among the first to ride them!
That is pretty vague that could mean early 2025 you get a call for a ride on the traveling demo tour bunch of bikes.
While the dealer I visited is still deciding to take on the electric motorcycle, there is already electric snowmobile, did not ask if they took on that. Electric side by sides and handlebar quads likely are next or coming anyway. Polaris has a deal with Zero or did. It is for the new generation, pre order and don't know how far away your dealer is.
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Nairb, a go sun roof charger is not going to do much anything for you except take a bit out of your wallet.
Forget what they claim the ratings are on that thing, IF you got 100 watts out of it you'd be doing very well. Now times that by maybe 4 to 5 hours a day of full sun, typically I see 5x rating for my daily production on my panels on a good day, on a super day it pushes towards 6, that means you might see 400 to 500 watt hours made, which in bike terms, is about a mile or so per day of charge. Car terms, might get you to complete the turn on sequence and to the end of the block.
Aaron
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Since they've actually got the batteries liquid cooled, it seems kind of a miss to not have put a 20ish kw DC fast charger on them with Tesla connector, even if it brought the weight up to 425lbs... Would probably add a couple thousand to the cost as well I guess... I do get that they're essentially just commuter bikes though given the size, power, & range. They'll perhaps sell some in Montreal and Vancouver, with I believe an up to $2500 izev credit from the federal government (does Quebec also have an incentive that would apply on top of that?).
Did we get a pack voltage stat? IIRC it has to be something like 200V minimum for DC
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Had a little look round their site and found a downloadable spec list, annoying that we have to hunt around to find out some of the more basic stuff. The charger is 6.6kW, around 1.9kW on 120v. And although the bike only has a 2 year warranty it's at least 5 years on the battery, but only around 30k miles (50k km) which I could see some people exceeding fairly easily.
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At least they haven't listed the charge rate in mph
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It very much is a competitor for the Zero FXE. And not a bad first stab at it either. Weight is a bit high, power's about right.
Of course we're all waiting for one with twice the battery capacity and 12kW+ charging.
Cas :)
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It’s interesting that the power, performance, top speed and range are identical to the bmw ce04, which complies with the restrictive licensing requirements in Europe and Australia. As far as I am aware neither Canada nor the USA have any such power restricted categories.
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At least they haven't listed the charge rate in mph
6.6 kw charger
7 miles per kwh DonTom suggested value
Assuming the two above numbers are the same as in power in from the AC source. Assume the ramp up to actually charging at 6.6 is half a minute or so hence disregard.
7*6.6=46.2 miles per one hour of parking at a level 2 charger with ability to deliver 6.6kw.
I don't know about others, but my KTM will charge at the max amp draw when essentially depleted and stay that way probably until 90% or so.
Edit: They are essentially using 8 miles per kwh going by capicity and combined use, and a bit less than 6 at a sustained 50mph.
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At least they haven't listed the charge rate in mph
6.6 kw charger
7 miles per kwh DonTom suggested value
Assuming the two above numbers are the same as in power in from the AC source. Assume the ramp up to actually charging at 6.6 is half a minute or so hence disregard.
7*6.6=46.2 miles per one hour of parking at a level 2 charger with ability to deliver 6.6kw.
I don't know about others, but my KTM will charge at the max amp draw when essentially depleted and stay that way probably until 90% or so.
I mean, wasn't asking for the number, some manufacturers have dropped the actual kW charge rate and started listing mph instead which is a completely meaningless number.
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At least they haven't listed the charge rate in mph
6.6 kw charger
7 miles per kwh DonTom suggested value
Assuming the two above numbers are the same as in power in from the AC source. Assume the ramp up to actually charging at 6.6 is half a minute or so hence disregard.
7*6.6=46.2 miles per one hour of parking at a level 2 charger with ability to deliver 6.6kw.
I don't know about others, but my KTM will charge at the max amp draw when essentially depleted and stay that way probably until 90% or so.
I mean, wasn't asking for the number, some manufacturers have dropped the actual kW charge rate and started listing mph instead which is a completely meaningless number.
The moto journalists that won't use a kil a watt or similar meter and go into round about discussions.
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It very much is a competitor for the Zero FXE. And not a bad first stab at it either. Weight is a bit high, power's about right.
Of course we're all waiting for one with twice the battery capacity and 12kW+ charging.
Cas :)
Except that it's almost £3k more expensive. If only they still sold the gen 2 S/DS in 7.2 it'd be the same price as an FXE, then the money saved compared to the Can-am could get a charge tank and have nearly a grand left over
It’s interesting that the power, performance, top speed and range are identical to the bmw ce04, which complies with the restrictive licensing requirements in Europe and Australia. As far as I am aware neither Canada nor the USA have any such power restricted categories.
Well they're selling them in Europe too, they have an 11kW restricted version although they don't say whether there are any other effects like a decrease in peak output as well. The CE-04 for some strange reason also reduces battery capacity in it's restricted version, and not physically.
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It appears to be somewhat higher quality than the FXE, on a par with the CE04, and it's got reasonable charging facilities built in compared to the useless OBC in the Zero. I think it's nice that there's another option out there, but not so nice that it doesn't really move the game on in any particularly meaningful direction.
Cas :)
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I think the range of the larger battery compared to the Zeros is partly offset by the greater weight and drivetrain losses. I can't remember where I downloaded the specs to check the number on the Pulse but the max "city" range on the website is 100 miles versus 105 for the FXE. Of course it might not be the exact same testing procedure and manufacturers like to inflate the numbers but you'd expect a bigger difference for that difference in capacity.
Yeah it does have a bigger battery and faster charging, all I'm saying is I don't think that justifies the extra money. You could also point to the technology improvements with the dash and connectivity, but in that case there's better suspension on the Zeros.
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At the 7:20 point of this new German language video they mention the press meeting with the CEO & management where they say they're also working on two more "secret" bikes for the future. The press event was held in June on pre-production units. Turn on cc then in settings turn on auto generated english. Maybe they'll be bigger versions of these; ie. an SRS type non-naked street bike and DSRX/Experia type tourer with double the battery & NACS DC charging fully utilizing the liquid cooling. Or maybe they'll be a moped and a big trike;)
But perhaps a stripped down off road dirt bike version of the Origin could be a good one for the future, which might get them more sales at lower prices/costs given fortnine's glowing take on the off-road riding experience with that swing arm... take off most of the electronics, ABS, lights & fairings, put on a light weight seat & rear fender, dirt bike fork & high fender, smaller dirt bike size wheels & tires, and put the charger/inverter in an accessory stand like the Varg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRjIxkH8IOc
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From the "x-ray" images they have on the website it doesn't really look like they'd have the room for more battery, and it's all tightly integrated into one big enclosed unit. I don't think it's really Can-am style but the logical addition would be a sport bike, a Pulse with a full fairing.
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Was just thinking it could be a double wide battery pack version based on this design. Presumably this current pack is made up of two columns of horizontally stacked 2170's, so ~140mm width of just battery, plus casing & connectors, etc, perhaps making this pack on it's own 20cm wide, or 25. Or perhaps it's 3 columns wide & thus more like 25-28cm including casing etc. If they made a four column wide version maybe it would end up 45cm wide, which maybe isn't far off the width of a DSR or Experia pack width... or a six column wide version. That's all I was thinking
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Is it using 21700s? That doesn't seem the best choice for liquid cooling. From the images it looks like one block about the size of a Zero 7.2 pack rotated almost horizontal and then another on top around half that length with the charger behind it. I assumed there are pouch cells inside.
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One of their teaser videos from a month or two ago shows cylindrical cells, and one might also explicitly say 2170's. I recall seeing a video from a couple years ago of a prototype battery pack that had the cylindrical cells in a pack with liquid coolant running right through the pack instead of in channels or plates adjacent to the cells like most car manufactures are doing. It wasn't Can-Am displaying this I don't think (at some trade/tech show I think) but it was about the size of a motorcycle pack, or maybe the presenter even said it was for electric motorcycles, can't recall. Can-Am's animations of the cooling running through the pack look kind of like this. They show digital blue-ish liquid kind of flowing through the pack and into the motor.
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This isn't the video I'd seen (was maybe a trade show walk through on Munro live, Out of Spec, or maybe even Linus Tech Tips), but is the same concept, just more recent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQpeRLZWXNs
EDIT: Maybe it was this Munro live Faraday Future video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn8h2i1TqNo
Similar here at 14 minutes in on a university design race bike. 16kWh, 400V
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFcTe8UuNLk
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In that case it probably wouldn't be too hard for them to pull the charger out and up the pack to like 10-11kW/h and then move the charger up to the tank area, make that a little larger for some more wind protection like a proper adventure bike.
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I believe the charger and inverter are already up at the top/tank area and upper sides, only the plug inlet is down low
See 1:30 here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuK3qVQun8I
and at 40 seconds in here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py9XuzgRFTQ
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Be interested to know what the cooling is.
Glycol alone aint too good, mix with water, unless the water is DI, it will conduct, and unfortunately DI picks up all sorts of ions and crap and really wants to start conducting... badly. We use liquid cooling on the inverters at the power plant, it's basically a 10,000 HP vfd for starting the generators, and have all sorts of filtration to keep the water ultra pure so it won't conduct electricity. Putting a system on a bike is really unfeasable.
Still, it also seems many are VERY close with a solid state battery,so the chem batts may quickly become a thing of the past. Interesting times we live in! Lets hope we don't blow ourselves up in the meantime.
aaron
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It's being used in computer servers too
Edit, This HP vid isn't about immersion type cooling...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS-UmJWFPqU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6LQeFmY-IU
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So surely they'll use a dielectric liquid of some sort, on account of not needing very much of it? eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoroether
Cas :)
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Yeah it does have a bigger battery and faster charging, all I'm saying is I don't think that justifies the extra money. You could also point to the technology improvements with the dash and connectivity, but in that case there's better suspension on the Zeros.
How do we know which suspention is better? Zero fx fxe 41mm forks, Can am 43mm forks. The Zero fx shock was like $450 from Zero a few years ago not sure about now but it is unlikely it is very good. Considering the price of the vehicle. And you can't be absolutely sure what Zero is using by the time this one is available without a pre order deal. Travel on the adventure ish one an inch or more in excess of the fx value. The Can am one actually looks like you could rub against stuff. 10 inches of travel and 10.8 inches of ground clearance It sure will help being narrow.
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haven't found any BRP related immersive battery cooling or dielectric fluid related patents just yet, but they are hiring for a fair number of engineers, technicians, and designers for their "electric vehicle and propulsion development team"
https://careers.brp.com/electric
also, their 2021 press release about investing $300M to electrify all their product lines:
https://ir.brp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/brp-introduce-electric-models-each-its-product-lines-end-2026
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Yeah it does have a bigger battery and faster charging, all I'm saying is I don't think that justifies the extra money. You could also point to the technology improvements with the dash and connectivity, but in that case there's better suspension on the Zeros.
How do we know which suspention is better? Zero fx fxe 41mm forks, Can am 43mm forks. The Zero fx shock was like $450 from Zero a few years ago not sure about now but it is unlikely it is very good. Considering the price of the vehicle. And you can't be absolutely sure what Zero is using by the time this one is available without a pre order deal. Travel on the adventure ish one an inch or more in excess of the fx value. The Can am one actually looks like you could rub against stuff. 10 inches of travel and 10.8 inches of ground clearance It sure will help being narrow.
The Can-am does have longer travel but there's no adjustment on the fork, where as the FX/FXE has preload, compression, and rebound adjustments. An extra 2mm on the leg diameter is going to make next to no difference and is really just to mitigate the Can-am fork having more flex due to being longer. While KYB and Showa are in the same ballpark the fact that the Can-am fork has no adjustment and the rear shock looks to be a non-piggy back one means it's probably lower end stuff with worse damping, having to deal with a fair bit more sprung weight as well as more unsprung weight in the rear.
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It looks like most of the money to design and manufacture the Can-Am EV went into the battery/motor/drive-train package. It looks like the development budget was running low by the time they got to the chassis and the engineers had to cut corners to keep the price of the bike from going too crazy.
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This is from the march 25 2021 article or press release posted earlier in this thread.
BRP has made the bold decision to develop its Rotax modular electric powerpack technology which will be leveraged across all product lines enhancing the consumer experience by offering new electric options.
" chassis and the engineers had to cut corners to keep the price of the bike from going too crazy." What corners might I ask. I would think a single sided swingarm would take more design effort. Maybe you are right the module fits in where the rear axle of a quad or side by side will be at some point. I find it hard to believe these steering neck bolted or attached some way to a battery box thing will get the amount and type of flex figured out as well as the frame or even stressed engine/transmission set up common now. Of course, putting more weight on the swingarm like a motor and reduction gear is sort of a design choice not to be at the pinnacle of handling. The chain that looks like in the timing of the camshafts in my pick up and called silent I believe is intresting but I see a straight cut reduction gear not a helical one. Curious how quiet it is.
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here's a very quick walk around of the battery & chassis ( heads up to lower your volume;), also if you click the link directly you can slow speed to .75 and pause it... This also gives a good view of the rear shock with piggy back reservoir and adjustments. In the German video I'd posted yesterday the presenter showed that you access the adjustment controls on the reservoir by removing the seat.
https://www.tiktok.com/@mrkryptonite/video/7405749781512998187
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Here's the translated conclusion from the Italian article below. Can-Am expects 50% of buyers to be first time purchasers (of Can-Am? Of electric motorcycles? of motorcycles generally? either way, having them in their dealer network will get lots of recreational vehicle buyers looking at & test riding them I imagine. Probably a much wider network than Zero has, and more varied clients than Harley show rooms perhaps?) :
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Original in their approach to design and in the final result, the Can-Am men have focused on motorcycles with human performance, and there is a reason for that. According to their assessments, at least 50% of buyers will be first-time purchasers. The electricity market is currently struggling, but when it rebounds, they want to be ready with an appealing offer for every type of experience, not just for those who are already experts. For this reason, they tried to maintain lightness and reduced charging times, resulting in the choice of a battery pack that is not among the largest, perhaps disappointing those who expected a record capacity or at least one of the most spacious on the market. Their estimate of the kilometers traveled daily by commuters in America as well as in Europe supports their choice: In short, they didn't think about tourism but about daily use. Yet Pulse and Origin have various practical and "clever" solutions that could be particularly appreciated by those who are experienced and demanding. They certainly offer everyone agility, speed, and indeed some brilliant solutions, not to mention liquid cooling. This, however, has probably driven costs a bit higher... For our market, the list price is significant, but the relationship with the average earnings of an American worker is somewhat different. The technical foundation, in any case, seems to be very interesting, and we wouldn't be surprised if Rotax decided one day to put it on the market for other manufacturers (when asked, they neither confirmed nor excluded the possibility).
https://www.moto.it/news/can-am-pulse-e-origin-foto-caratteristiche-e-prezzi-delle-nuove-elettriche-brp.html#google_vignette
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The bikes appear to be on display at the Anaheim Convention center for "Club BRP 2025" for those in California that want a closer look. Seems to be for the public, but maybe is for dealers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwZSEH1FBYQ
Ends today:
https://www.facebook.com/brpinfo/posts/our-most-anticipated-event-of-the-year-is-coming-up-club-brp-2025-anaheim-califo/939126541576717/
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here's a very quick walk around of the battery & chassis ( heads up to lower your volume;), also if you click the link directly you can slow speed to .75 and pause it... This also gives a good view of the rear shock with piggy back reservoir and adjustments. In the German video I'd posted yesterday the presenter showed that you access the adjustment controls on the reservoir by removing the seat.
https://www.tiktok.com/@mrkryptonite/video/7405749781512998187
I stand corrected. That's a hell of a long shock, I didn't expect the reservoir to by so high up hidden away.
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here's a very quick walk around of the battery & chassis ( heads up to lower your volume;), also if you click the link directly you can slow speed to .75 and pause it... This also gives a good view of the rear shock with piggy back reservoir and adjustments. In the German video I'd posted yesterday the presenter showed that you access the adjustment controls on the reservoir by removing the seat.
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Rebound is usually at the bottom at least in the off road shock world. High and low speed compression at the top.
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It's a really nice piece of engineering though isn't it? I think it's a great start. Hopefully they'll make some bigger ones.
Cas :)
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There's definitely more work gone into it than a Zero, but you've got to wonder what's the point when it ends up being heavier and harder to work on.
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I hate the look of that long license plate extension. It just looks out of place with the design of the rest of the bike. If they had to have the license plate behind the front wheel, they should have used the type of plate holder that bolts on to the end of the swing arm like some other manufacturer's do.
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It kind of looks like an out of place wart on most bike designs, even the ones hanging off the swing arm like you mention, and also on the Origin and most dual sport/ADV bikes it's this big thing hanging off the end. Hence the popularity of "tail tidy" kits in the aftermarket.
I imagine this is a leftover design element from the days of needing a largish incandescent bulb housing for the brake light, as well as designers wanting to taper the rear of the bike as much as possible behind the seat. Since we now have super bright, ultra thin LED lights of wildly varying shapes available to work with, it's probably about time the plate moved up to the rear light area, with a light bar surrounding it, along with the signal lights. Sure, the rear of the bike might not taper as tightly in design, but then only a light, thin fender would be needed to stop spray and could add to the design. These Can-Am designs were inspired by a snow owl, well, most birds have long thin, tapering tail feathers (without a license plate hanging off the end;). The rear light of the Pulse is actually about the same width already as the license plate mount. Imagine if they'd designed the plate mount up there with a light bar above and below, and vertical orang signal lights either side.
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I think actually it's mostly driven by regulatory requirements.
Cas :)
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A few years ago I was told by a cop that there was a DOT regulation that required that the license plate and tail/brake light must be located behind the rear tire. That was the first time I had heard of that regulation, but maybe it was mostly aimed at automobile design and motorcycles got stuck with that rule, too. ???
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Yep, that's one of them. There's also that peculiar regulation for rear mudguard coverage which is why that stupid bit of non-functional plastic was stuck on BMW shafties for years. And by and large the design has to cater for the lowest common denominator for significant international markets, so in practice, whatever satisfies both European and US markets with only one engineering effort.
Cas :)
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Also, TBH, it's a handy place to mount a mudguard since the modern trend towards deleting most of the rear end leaves you getting splattered by the tyre in the wet.
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A few years ago I was told by a cop that there was a DOT regulation that required that the license plate and tail/brake light must be located behind the rear tire. That was the first time I had heard of that regulation, but maybe it was mostly aimed at automobile design and motorcycles got stuck with that rule, too. ???
I think it's because putting it any farther forward means the plate winds up obscured by dirt before terribly long
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Motorcycle.com gets around to reviewing the Can-Am electric motorcycles and publishes their prices in this recent article: https://www.motorcycle.com/bikes/new-model-preview/2025-can-am-origin-and-pulse-electric-motorcycles-first-look-44606260
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Unfortunately, they do not have the money I bet, but NOW that the worlds attention is firmly looking at E bikes, especially with the buzz from a company that is well known as a good company, this would be prime time for Energica and maybe even some of the others to jump on this bandwagon and get their name shown as well. 'for those who are really serious about their cycling, Energica has - A,B,C' to take you to an entirely new level of excitement, bla bla type of thing. The testosterone is already flowing, let Energica take you to the top! .. type ad's. Ok, old song reference, boomerish, I get it, but use it to push the Experia, or the SS9 for the truly retro emersion for the boomers who want an E bike to cruise in comfort on. Hint at the Ribelle / EGO for those 'kids' who are not old grandpaws yet ;D
When you look at the turmoil that is currently going on with Energica's parent co, THIS is their golden goose opportunity to recover from that, stand out as their OWN company, and get a new start on it all. In a few months, given the outcome of the US elections, if the planet is not a 50k degrees kelvin cinderblock by then, this is a perfect segue into the 'New World' waiting for you!
Hey @Demoni push this to your advertising geeks, give me a free bike after you sold your 1000th one in the US heh 8) I'll even let you ride it now and then ;D We'll even break off 10 percent to pay Morgan, the 'Big Guy' too !
-- on the license plate thing.. that makes sense, any mud and crud getting flung off the bike wheels, if the plate is sticking out past the tire, anything flung gets stuck the back of the plate, NOT the front where the numbers are and obscuring them.
Aaron
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I am guessing they measure these tft screens on a diagonal.
USA solo seat, dual seat buys seperate, wonder if the dealer will swap one for the other?
Most if not all of the pictures seem to be the $2000 extra 73 variant.
The rake and trail are different origion vs pulse
The total load is different pretty much the same as the difference in the curb weight.
I am guessing motorcycle.com did not rate a test ride.
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you will find that pretty much ANY screen, television, computer, tft, whatever, they always measure them on the diagonal. It makes them sound bigger, especially when you consider the rectangular screens today, ie the theatre mode .vs. the standard 4x3 they used to be. Resolution, refresh rate, and clock freq / bandwidth are also important factors many overlook when buying stuff like that.
Do you want a pencil or a beercan? 8)
Aaron
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Seems some were misunderstanding my idea. That being that there would still be a plastic fender behind and below the combined light/license plate holder, to keep mud and such off the plate. Without that 1kg or more plate holder and turn signals hanging off the end of the fender, it could be a much lighter & sleeker fender design ...but regardless, it seems it's mandated to be behind the wheel so we'll continue seeing this awkward design for some time...
Advrider posted a ride review of the Pulse and Origin, including a blurb in the conclusion about the intended audience Can-Am is going for:
https://www.advrider.com/can-am-returns-with-electric-motorcycle-models-we-go-for-a-ride/
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many states also insist the plate have a light on it as well so you can see it at night, so there's that as well. Need something to hold the light bulb too right?
Aaron
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Yep, I literally described a license plate holder built into the rear of the seat, surrounded by an led brake light and turn signals, and a slim fender behind & below it in my original post with the idea. So it needs an illumination led too. We're going in circles on an idea that was shown to be impossible due to regulations. Time to move on...
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Motorcycle.com rides and then reviews the 2025 Can-Am Pulse and Origin: https://www.motorcycle.com/bikes/manufacturer/brp/2025-can-am-pulse-origin-review-first-ride-44608162
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Can-Am has the right idea here with the Origin. Clever design and seems well put together. The Pulse is too close in price to the likes of the S2 Del Mar / Mulholland and Zero SR given its lesser capabilities, but the Origin seems like a credible dual sport. Can-Am seems to understand that the technology isn’t quite ready for e-motos to compete on price and range with gassers but that they need real-world experience when the time comes. The range wouldn’t be enough for my day rides even if I had room for 2 bikes, but for people who truck their bikes to the trail, it should suffice. If they could figure out how to shove a 50cc range-extender and 1+ gallon tank into that powertrain, its range could be 150+ miles.
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Looks like one can do build your own and put a deposit. I think it was via an email I signed up for they say something like 5 year warranty if you do your order this month. I guess they got the message two year warranty wasn't too appealing. Not sure what sort of person puts a deposit on the short list of specifications, not knowing where a dealer will be and what fees are involved besides what you agree to pay.
It seems they have a battery powered snowmobile for use by ski slope businesses mostly that has been adapted to be a motorcycle. It might not be as ground up as they act.
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They are real now. Just pay and get insurance. I went to see Scrantonmotorsports in Vernon ct yesterday. They got 3, sold the Pulse one but it is supposedly still there. 17K out the door with a new liscence plate. Perhaps will nead a dedicated brand heading.
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Not sure what sort of person puts a deposit on the short list of specifications, not knowing where a dealer will be and what fees are involved besides what you agree to pay.
The sort that likes the idea and knows the deposit is refundable?
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I have been able to download the owners manual they call it an Operators guide so the specifications are pretty much in print now for those dedicated to searching.
Kind of a tough sell for me today. No passenger seat or pegs or peg attachment points, no center stand, can't put hardly any bigger back tire on it, The headlight wasn't super impressive even on the one with accessory lights.....3.4 liters of coolant.......high voltage they don't put any volts on it in the manual.