ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Tony on March 02, 2022, 09:40:36 PM
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I am in the market for buying a new MC, and currently I have the Zero SR/F 2020 model. I was considering updating to the 2022 model for a bit longer range, but there were few other improvements to be found. Then discovered there is a new Energica importer in Norway where I live now. So I started looking at their options as well.
A lot of people here have been mentioning Energica as a good choice, and I found the EsseEsse9 model to be quite close to the Zero SR/F in terms of your riding posture, which makes it comfortable for long trips, unlike their EGO. So, the EssEsse9 might be the best bet for a similar SR/F riding feeling?
It also seem to offer a better range and a few other improvements.
Anyone here has some experience with this MC, or some insight on how it would stack up against the SR/F? :)
EDIT:
After a lot of research and consideration, I decided to NOT change to an Energica, but hang on to the Zero a bit longer and see what the next generations of EMCs can deliver.
Energica seem to win on many points, the Zero SR/F also has many good points. It is hard to declare an objective clear winner, at least for my use (mostly shorter commute trips, with a few longer range trips).
But what is clear is that a change would cost more than 15.000 USD here in Norway, even when letting my dealer have the old bike. 15.000 to buy what benefit exactly? Hmm... It is hard to justify this cost, even though the additional range and faster charging would be very welcome.
Thanks for everyones input :)
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There's an entire Energica subforum FYI. Having made the switch from Zero to Energica I will say the bike definitely fits my needs more than a Zero does, and the SS9 is DEFINITELY more accommodating to taller riders. That being said I still regularly recommend Zero to many people.
Many, many people have switched from Zero to Energica. I have been unable to find a single case of someone switching from Energica to Zero.
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Definitely try before you buy. I rode an Energica (Eva Ribelle) back to back with a Zero SR/F and definitely preferred the Zero. The Zero worked out a lot cheaper too. They may be a comparable price in the US, but certainly not here in the UK. Some people prefer the Energica, so best you find out which side you come down on.
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Definitely try before you buy. I rode an Energica (Eva Ribelle) back to back with a Zero SR/F and definitely preferred the Zero. The Zero worked out a lot cheaper too. They may be a comparable price in the US, but certainly not here in the UK. Some people prefer the Energica, so best you find out which side you come down on.
Thank you for sharing your experience. What made you like the SR/F more?
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Being the lazy SOB that I am, I prefer the simplicity of Zero's air-cooled motors and controllers (no fluids to EVER change except for the brakes and forks) and belt drive (no need to screw around with lubing and adjusting a chain and eventually having to replace said chain and front sprocket).
The only thing I ever really did with my Zeros was to replace the tires and brake pads when they were worn.
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I prefer the durability of the chain over a belt in the case of Zero, the belt on a Harley was really carefree and I never had any worries or issues. The belt on a Zero needs to be correctly aligned, tensioned and is prone to snap and in my case is just a nightmare. When comparing, I would definitely go with an Energica. I don't find that an Energica is more expensive. You can have a 13.4 SS9 for 20k Euro or the 21.5kwh SS9 for 25k Euro, with the new motor, that needs an oil change only once in 30ts kms. In comparison the Zero motor needs commissioning (propriatery sw allignment at the dealer) every 10ts km. Also I heard the belt should be changed every 10ts km (even though it maybe lasts more if you ride in eco mode and the manual says differently) for app 300 Euro (200 Euro belt + work). On the Energica you can charge with DC a lot faster. The chargers in Zeros are notoriously know for their failures and if you want to charge with a half way decent speed you add on weight and spend a lot of money extra for a charge tank. The SR/F and SR/S models are also well known for their software problems and other issues, like the proprietary 12V battery dying during storage, etc.. Also I would be discouraged by the new sales model of the company with their cypher store.
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Another thing to note is you're asking this in the Zero subforum which is, understandably, full of Zero enthusiasts. You might ask about the Energica experience in the Energica subforum to grab owners' attention.
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Another thing to note is you're asking this in the Zero subforum which is, understandably, full of Zero enthusiasts. You might ask about the Energica experience in the Energica subforum to grab owners' attention.
Well, I own both. I will say they do not compare. It depends on so many things which is best for each person. But it seems to me the Zero belt is just fine, I have close to 20K miles on my Zero belts. I figure I will change the belt every other rear tire change.
And FWIW, I have heard of Harley belts snapping also.
The Energica has a reverse and is also more maintenance than a Zero. Has faster charging. Weights more. I cannot say which is best, but I have found my most handy bike of all is for myself is my Zero DS 7KW--my lightest and most used bike of all. I even take it on all my RV trips, carried on the hitch, not towed. I would not take a larger battery for that bike for free.
If not sure which is best, buy both!
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Definitely try before you buy. I rode an Energica (Eva Ribelle) back to back with a Zero SR/F and definitely preferred the Zero. The Zero worked out a lot cheaper too. They may be a comparable price in the US, but certainly not here in the UK. Some people prefer the Energica, so best you find out which side you come down on.
Thank you for sharing your experience. What made you like the SR/F more?
I put up a post here (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=11385.msg107183#msg107183), but to sum it up I felt that the Zero was co-operative and made riding feel easy, but I was fighting against the Energica.
Bikes are such a personal thing, that advising someone on what to get is a bit pointless. You just have to try for yourself. You only have to look at some of the awful ICE bikes that will still put a smile one someone's face to see that! :)
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Definitely try before you buy. I rode an Energica (Eva Ribelle) back to back with a Zero SR/F and definitely preferred the Zero. The Zero worked out a lot cheaper too. They may be a comparable price in the US, but certainly not here in the UK. Some people prefer the Energica, so best you find out which side you come down on.
Thank you for sharing your experience. What made you like the SR/F more?
I put up a post here (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=11385.msg107183#msg107183), but to sum it up I felt that the Zero was co-operative and made riding feel easy, but I was fighting against the Energica.
Bikes are such a personal thing, that advising someone on what to get is a bit pointless. You just have to try for yourself. You only have to look at some of the awful ICE bikes that will still put a smile one someone's face to see that! :)
Thank you for an interesting read, and you surely have a lot more experience than me riding MCs, so very much appreciated. :)
I agree, riding the bike to see how I like it would be optimal, but the store selling it is far away in another city, it would cost me two days just to do a test ride. So, trying to harvest as much info as I can first. I better probably go there and have a ride anyway though, if the research is otherwise positive. So far, nothing conclusive.
Note that the dealer said the essesse9 is a better riding experience for longer trips than the Ribelle, which you tested. Not sure why he thinks so though.
One point you brought up, although minor one, is something I picked up on myself when riding a EGO years ago. It had this high pitched sound, which I did not like at all. If the EE9 has the same sound, that actually is a bit of a downer for me.
You also brought up the reverse was a fun addition, but from what I understand the SR/F 2020 will get this feature as a paid software update this spring. It is in their Cypher store already, although not available yet.
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Another thing to note is you're asking this in the Zero subforum which is, understandably, full of Zero enthusiasts. You might ask about the Energica experience in the Energica subforum to grab owners' attention.
I actually did that, but no replies. :)
Also, I owned three generations of Zero myself, so I suppose I am reaching out to others who have similar taste. I heard many Zero owners lately talking about making the move to Energica, so just curious to what people are thinking in this respect.
I am pretty agnostic when it comes to brand myself, just want to have the best possible riding experience.
Zero was one of the first companies to manufacture electrical motorbikes, so they had a head start, but I keep my eyes open to anyone who might have surpassed them in the meantime. Always nice to hear what others people think, and I found people in this forum have a lot of useful experience and insight to offer. :)
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I suspect my next money might be going to a more mainstream manufacturer when the time comes (in about 4 years or so). Triumph might have their new "Speed Triple" EV out by then.
Cas :)
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One of the things that attracted me to my FXS (my only current motorcycle) strangely enough is the no liquids-no oil-no smell thing. Here in the cold winter it allows me to store the motorcycle in my sunroom, which isn't used in winter. That allows me to put another car in the garage. Come Spring, this isn't as important (no snow plowing) so I can park that car on the driveway and put my motorcycle back in the garage.
I have not seen an Energica so I don't know if that's a concern, but I imagine any EV without gasoline is an improvement in my scenario. 'Just something to think about. The fact the Zeros are air-cooled does not go unnoticed to some of us. If it means I have to back off the top speed during the heat of summer, it's a fair trade.
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If you want a lightweight commuter that's a ton of fun to ride, go with Zero.
If you want insane performance, the fastest charging, the most range, the best build quality, and actual customer service, go with Energica ;D
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I went from a 2020 SR/S Premium with charge tank, to 2021 Energica Ribelle, and I can't be happier. Amazing range, charge time, reliability. There's a reason everyone goes Zero -> Energica, and never the other way.
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I went from a 2020 SR/S Premium with charge tank, to 2021 Energica Ribelle, and I can't be happier. Amazing range, charge time, reliability. There's a reason everyone goes Zero -> Energica, and never the other way.
This is very interesting input, thanks. :)
What do you think of the sound that someone else mentioned? I remember about five years ago, the EGO I testdrove made this high pitched sound, while the Zero got a more pleasant electric hum. But not sure if it applied to the newer non EGO models...?
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Low speed, Energica makes more noise. I like it, it's like a jet taking off. At speed, over 25 or 30 probably, it dies down, much over that and all you hear is wind. I like it, sounds high tech and gets looks.
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The EsseEsse9 is 621lbs!!
Pass.
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The EsseEsse9 is 621lbs!!
Pass.
Strangely this is rarely mentioned. All the Energicas are insanely heavy. That's one of several reasons I went with Zero - they're "ordinary motorcycle" weight.
Cas :)
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The EsseEsse9 is 621lbs!!
That was the weight of the original EsseEsse9 with the 13.4kWh battery. The new EMCE bikes are 580lbs, not lightweight but the decrease of 40 pounds makes a big difference.
For comparison a SR/F with a power tank is 545lbs.
I remember about five years ago, the EGO I test drove made this high pitched sound. But not sure if it applied to the newer non EGO models...?
The noise is a result of the straight cut gears in the reduction gearing. The new EMCE bikes make a similar noise to the old bikes however the new motor cases seem to have changed the tone. I would say the overall volume of the noise is 20% less, plus the high pitched notes are greatly reduced. Best way I can describe it is a "more refined" sound signature.
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The EsseEsse9 is 621lbs!!
That was the weight of the original EsseEsse9 with the 13.4kWh battery. The new EMCE bikes are 580lbs, not lightweight but the decrease of 40 pounds makes a big difference.
For comparison a SR/F with a power tank is 545lbs.
I remember about five years ago, the EGO I test drove made this high pitched sound. But not sure if it applied to the newer non EGO models...?
The noise is a result of the straight cut gears in the reduction gearing. The new EMCE bikes make a similar noise to the old bikes however the new motor cases seem to have changed the tone. I would say the overall volume of the noise is 20% less, plus the high pitched notes are greatly reduced. Best way I can describe it is a "more refined" sound signature.
Chains are also noisy. It's why most other eMoto manufacturers went with belts. You don't notice it much on an ICE bike because of all of the other sounds but when there as many competing sounds the sound of a metallic chain rolling over metal gears is rather striking. Abe Askenazie (Zero's CTO) noticed this when he first started working for Zero and took one for a ride. He had contacts at Gates due to his many years working for Harley Davidson and then Buell so he went about working on getting a belt drive designed for Zero. I'm surprised he went for Gates, as Buell used a different belt in their last years... I forget who (and I'm too lazy to look it up right now). Maybe because Gates was the larger company and could respond more quickly and economically to Zero's needs. As small a company as Buell Motorcycle Company was, Zero is even smaller.
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The EsseEsse9 is 621lbs!!
That was the weight of the original EsseEsse9 with the 13.4kWh battery. The new EMCE bikes are 580lbs, not lightweight but the decrease of 40 pounds makes a big difference.
For comparison a SR/F with a power tank is 545lbs.
I remember about five years ago, the EGO I test drove made this high pitched sound. But not sure if it applied to the newer non EGO models...?
The noise is a result of the straight cut gears in the reduction gearing. The new EMCE bikes make a similar noise to the old bikes however the new motor cases seem to have changed the tone. I would say the overall volume of the noise is 20% less, plus the high pitched notes are greatly reduced. Best way I can describe it is a "more refined" sound signature.
Chains are also noisy. It's why most other eMoto manufacturers went with belts. You don't notice it much on an ICE bike because of all of the other sounds but when there as many competing sounds the sound of a metallic chain rolling over metal gears is rather striking. Abe Askenazie (Zero's CTO) noticed this when he first started working for Zero and took one for a ride. He had contacts at Gates due to his many years working for Harley Davidson and then Buell so he went about working on getting a belt drive designed for Zero. I'm surprised he went for Gates, as Buell used a different belt in their last years... I forget who (and I'm too lazy to look it up right now). Maybe because Gates was the larger company and could respond more quickly and economically to Zero's needs. As small a company as Buell Motorcycle Company was, Zero is even smaller.
My understanding is that the BMW F800GT used a belt manufactured by Continental. I think their other models that used belts had Gates versions. But BMW likely went with the low-bidder at some point. They were selling their belts for around $450 USD at their parts counters and the belts could not be bought from any other source. (One poster some years ago on the F800Riders forum claimed that he worked for Gates and even he was not permitted to buy a BMW belt directly from the company.) But now that the GT (which is the last model that uses a belt drive) has been discontinued, drive belts for that model are available from several sources for not much over $100 in Europe.
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I test drove both before I decided to buy the Zero. Main reason was the noise of the Energica. The Zero is so much quiter. The Zero is also more fun to drive - at least for me and my driving style (less weight). I also appreciate the AC charging (12KW) since in many (European) remote locations it is much easier to find a CEE16 port or a AC wallbox than a DC port.
But I have to admit, that I have difficulties to recommend the Zero after 12000 km. The bike is very unreliable. I had a couple of major breakdowns. This is not good during your summer vacation - even if Zero handled all repairs through warranty.
If I would buy a new bike I have difficulties to come to a recommendation. Both bikes have major disadvantages. May be I would give the Lifewire a chance....
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If I would buy a new bike I have difficulties to come to a recommendation. Both bikes have major disadvantages. May be I would give the Lifewire a chance....
If you really like that Zero has powerful AC charging I've got bad news for you about that LiveWire