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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: coppit on February 18, 2022, 06:48:18 AM
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Hi all,
I'm a 6'1" Zero SR/S Premium rider. I have the lower seat installed, as well as the touring windscreen. When I ride, I don't tuck. There's no power tank, so it's the stock 14.4 kWh battery.
When driving at 65 mph, the bike reports between 140-150 kWh/mile. Is that normal? At 55 mph, I'm around 120 kWh.
I just don't see how Zero can quote 103 miles of range at 55 mph. Even when my speed never exceeds 55, and my average is 45 (see trip 2), I get around 67 miles of range.
Below are some recent trips I took. Do these numbers sound right?
For the first trip, I drove to a town 54 miles away, recharged, then returned. The route had 12 miles of toll road, where I drove 70 mph.
- Trip 1 there: 54 miles, 83 minutes, 39 mph, 77% SoC used. 51°F, 70 mph highest speed (for 12 miles). 70 mile effective range.
- Trip 1 back: 54 miles, 72 minutes, 45 mph, 93% SoC used. 51°F, 70 mph highest speed (for 12 miles). 58 mile effective range.
For the next two trips, I chose a closer target that allowed me to drive there and right back in a single charge.
- Trip 2 there: 27 miles, 43 minutes, 40 mph, 46% SoC used. 51°F, 55 mph highest speed
- Trip 2 back: 27 miles, 45 minutes, 38 mph, 34% SoC used. 51°F, 55 mph highest speed
67 mile effective range for trip 2. Here I'm computing effective range as (27+27) / (.46 + .34). Basically assuming the last 20% of the battery performs the same as the previous 80% (doubtful).
- Trip 3 there: 32 miles, 44 minutes, 44 mph, 42% SoC used. 72°F, 65 mph highest speed
- Trip 3 back: 32 miles, 44 minutes, 43 mph, 39% SoC used. 72°F, 65 mph highest speed
79 mile effective range for trip 3.
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I also ride an SR/S premium but I'm only 5ft 8 in 130 lbs with the low seat and stock windshield with a small adjustable spoiler and the Shad side cases. I get pretty much what Zero specs say as far as range when the temps are 70ish. I use about 140 Wh/mile at 70 mph and 70F temp but that is not a very steady reading due to variables. Incline, wind speed and direction and temperature, air is more dense at colder temps. Cold temps are just bad all around for range. You probably have more windage than me being taller and wider and probably heavier. In your first example the 51 F temp is certainly one of the problems. Temperature has quite an effect. Zero doesn't state the temp for their range specs but it's probably 70F or higher. What is important is the battery temp not the air temp. If you have the bike in an unheated garage and you had a low of 35F then you ride at 10:00 am when it is 50F the battery is still cold. Riding and charging tend to warm it up and of course eventually it will be at ambient temp. What mode do you drive in and what is your riding style? I use a custom mode with the power set a little above eco mode, the speed limit at 100 mph, and the regen 60% throttle and 100% brake. Of course if you are just riding along at a steady speed with traffic it doesn't matter but if you like to shoot ahead and pass allot you will reduce the range. Try to never use the brakes, even regen. Any braking is bad for range. If you need to slow down by all means use regen but try not to brake more than is necessary and then have to use power to speed back up. Drive smoothly and you will go farther. Headwinds also effect range. Imagine riding into a 15 mph wind at 55 mph. That is an apparent wind of 75 mph so you are using the same power as you would at 75 but only going 55. The inverse is also true. Imagine riding 55 mph with the same 15 mph wind at your back. You would only be using the power it takes to go 40mph but still going 55. If range is an issue tucking might help. If I have to blast up a freeway at 70 with a strong headwind I'll tuck if it's only 10 miles or something short, alot less wind noise too but I can only tolerate tucking for a short time. At 71 yo that is not a comfortable position. Hope this helps. At Present I'm at Joshua Tree National Park towing my SR/S behind a minivan camper from Portland OR. Just wore out the rear tire at 10,000 miles. The only issue I've had was a rock through the drive belt at 2,000 miles.
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I am 6'4", 205 lbs. I have a power tank installed so the range should be about 200 km.
I don't use highways at all as the higher speeds greatly affect range (plus highway driving is boring).
While staying on county roads I typically reach the rated range, but I also don't ride in temperatures below 20 °C.
All settings are set to max. I occasionally accelerate hard but don't exceed the speed limit by more than 5 to 10 kph.
It is possible to get the rated range from the battery, but as @electrictwowheeler pointed out: speed, headwind and temperature are the key factors.
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I've got an SR/F (with a wee screen on it), I'm 14+ stone and 5'11", and I travel at around the same sorts of speed that you do - essentially avoiding motorways - and I was getting around 100 miles from a full charge last year in the summer. Haven't been out on it much this year though. When I first bought the bike back in March 2021, the temperature was around 4deg C, ie. just a bit too cold to actually enjoy riding, and I was getting range of about 80 miles in the same conditions (didn't have the screen fitted then but I suspect that makes negligible difference).
<edit> Oh also I only really ride in Street mode - Sport's a bit too fast for me.
Cas :)
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I use a custom mode that has plenty of power, but I don’t drive aggressively. IIRC it has 70% regen without brake, and 100% while braking.
I’ll try eco mode the next time temps are in the 70s. I’ll also try to go a little further so that I can return closer to 0% SoC.
One lesson from the drives is that average speed doesn’t matter so much as max speed. Driving 65 mph instead of 55 mph, even for a short while, might be my problem.
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Just a thought concerning modes. You could get the same range in any of the modes if you don't drive aggressively. Eco mode doesn't magically create more battery capacity it only limits speed, power and gives max regen. I found the regen in eco to be too strong requiring concentration to modulate it with the throttle. The 70 mph limit was annoying if I needed to pass a truck or something. Setting a lower power really just keeps you honest. I think the best thing about the custom mode is being able to set the regen. If you set the throttle regen to less than 100% and the brake regen to 100% you can just roll off the throttle and if a little more regen is needed you can touch either brake just enough to actuate the brake switch without actually applying the friction brakes. For me this is a super nice feature.
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This is true but I find that I will tend to use more power than is strictly necessary most of the time in Sport. I don't really think it affects range that much though.
The thing I appreciate most out of Street mode though is that you don't notice the battery running out of juice so noticeably. Sport mode gets noticeably sadder and sadder and sadder as it runs out of juice - Street stays on the level for most of the battery range. This makes it all the more predictable, and less disappointing.
Cas :)
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My experience with my SRS is about the same as yours. It just doesn't go as far as we might have hoped, based on the advertisement.
Only thing I can think to tell you is, when you have shown percentage and disconnect while charging, that is not the same as it completing to that level and turning off.
For example, if I want to charge to 100% with the supplied charger running on 120vac, it reaches 100% on the display and continues to charge at the same rate for about 40 minutes afterwards before turning off. You almost certainly know this but in case you dont, there ya go.
If you havent been waiting for it to finish, you have been starting with a lower percentage of charge than what was displayed when you disconnected it.
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One more thing, if you are riding in cold weather, say 50F and below, you will absolutely see a significant decrease in range.
In the brief window of "winter" ::) we get here in Florida USA, its like my battery has 10% less to give and the top speed is slower too, on days in the mid 50s and lower.
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The range stated by Zero is with the motorcycle on a "treadmill" like device, no inline, no wind, constant speed, and probably the lightest rider that they could find.
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The range stated by Zero is with the motorcycle on a "treadmill" like device, no inline, no wind, constant speed, and probably the lightest rider that they could find.
I have been to their factory and they do have a dyno. That is likely how they test their motorcycles to determine their range and performance.
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I am not going to say how tall I am but I am 225lbs, So the fat ass perspective is; I don't go less than 55mph, usually I cruse at 80-85mph on the highway, I am not a daredevil or a squid that is the average speed in Texas. I drive daily about 17mi one way / 34mi round trip mixed Highway and street. I use about 37%-40% of the battery per day.
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All right. For trip #4 I found a charger next to a highway with a 55 mph speed limit. I charged up fully and drove out and back twice over the same section of road. I did it twice because the speed limit turned to 65 after a while, and I didn't want to irritate other drivers too much.
- Trip 4 (2x round trip): 83 miles, 1h39m, 50 mph, 99% SoC used. 69°F, 55 mph highest speed
As you can see, with a 50 mph average speed, I was pretty good about setting the cruise control the whole time. I think this is the best I can hope for, since I'm not going to tuck for nearly 2 hours.
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Hmm I would expect to pretty much get another 20 miles out of mine at the same speed. I wonder if you could get a reading on how much juice you put in after running it down to 1%.
Cas :)
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I have never ran my Zero to zero ( :P ), I also felt like I got less mileage than advertised on all my Zero bikes (two DSRs, one SR/F). But I'd guess they give us some safety margin there at the end? It would be really terrible if it died at 5%, but having it die at "-5%" would feel like a gift from heaven in a tough spot... So perhaps in the lab they squeezed it all the way, while in real time there is a safety buffer that we do not see normally.
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Realistically you don't want to get down under 20% because it severely curtails the power below that.
Cas :)
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Realistically you don't want to get down under 20% because it severely curtails the power below that.
Cas :)
And that is about the time that "range anxiety" sets in. ;)
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Does anyone “aggressively” commute on an SR/S? I do about 40 miles round trip but probably average 80-85mph with stints doing 100mph+. Seems like an SR/S isn’t the right bike for me but I like it and love the idea of going EV.
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I'm about to "aggressively" commute on the SR/F as it seems I've just landed a job that's 25 miles away on the A303, which will mean 75mph cruising or thereabouts. I did a test run to see how much battery it used up - from 100% down to 60% to do 25 miles, the last few of which were just pootling on some country roads / urban bits. So it looks like it'll be a perfect fit. There are 2 7kW chargers in the work car park too!
Cas :)
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I can tell you what happens to my SR/F when it gets to 0% SoC!
I made a miscalculation and missed a charge spot. I realized that when the signs said "Exeter 35 miles" and the dash said 32 miles range that I had a problem. Its heavy bike!
So I slowed to 60mph, then 50, then 40. Getting annoying to other traffic now. So on the hard shoulder (breakdown lane), 30 mph. "Exeter 8 miles" range "2 miles". Came off motorway at 0%, about 2 miles from charge station. No real power available, as the zero algorithms cut in. I found at 8 mph I could still move along with extreme throttle care. Finally 6mph on the pavement with my feet out, go to the charge station at Exeter.
Conclusion: you can still move at 0%, but very slowly, but wouldn't like to try a steep hill. Well done Zero engineers.
pete.
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Handy to know! I've not tried the Exeter services yet, presumably they work ok? (My experiences of the M5 Sedgemoor and Gordano services were not very promising...)
Cas :)
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My 2018 Zero S with Power Tank will go about 10 miles after the SOC display reads "00" at around 25 mph - or at least it did when the bike was new. ;)
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2021 SR/F with windscreen and a rather large 6'4" 260ish rider
Was commuting 25ish miles each way, on the freeway 70+ mph, could do 3 trips (work, home, work again) no problem (charging is free at work ;D)
Going to be on a temp assignment for the next 4 weeks, 55 miles or so on a faster moving freeway (80+ average) with a nasty uphill on the way back.
Tested it already because.. of course I did. I noticed I can get there with 30+% left, however it always seems to be noticeably lower on the way back (could be I didn't let it full charge because I was tired of waiting.)
Will post updates with more info when I have it.
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That's pretty impressive, and a good design!
Once my FX suddenly jumped from 7% to 0% and stopped, three blocks from my house. I turned it off for a few minutes, but it only recovered enough to go one more block, so I pushed it (it was raining for the entire ride and walk).
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That's pretty impressive, and a good design!
Once my FX suddenly jumped from 7% to 0% and stopped, three blocks from my house. I turned it off for a few minutes, but it only recovered enough to go one more block, so I pushed it (it was raining for the entire ride and walk).
That was the way my 2014 S functioned. When the SOC was "0", it was done, unless you turn off the ignition and then turned it back on after a couple of minutes, when it would travel another 100 yards.
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Never got below 10% on the SR/F, not sure I want to find out just how crippled it is at that point... I treat 20% as "empty" to all intents and purposes. It already starts to feel a bit lame at 40%.
Cas :)