ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => Electric Motorcycle News => Topic started by: firebolter on December 16, 2021, 12:32:22 AM
-
This looks to have some serious potential-makes my SurRon really look like a toy!
https://starkfuture.com/en-us-US
(https://2yrh403fk8vd1hz9ro2n46dd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2023-stark-varg-first-look-electric-motocross-motorcycle-dirt-bike-24.jpg)
-
It's absolutely mint, and the spec sheet is serious. I want one. Shame there's no dirt near here :( well, not dirt that won't get shotguns and irate farmers after me if I ride all over it anyway.
Cas :)
-
Who wants one bad enough to agree to all those terms and conditions?
-
If it will legitimately charge in 1 hour off something like a NEMA 14-50 it has the potential to be quite a nice dirt bike.
-
Presumably off-board charger required to achieve that?
Cas :)
-
They say it comes with a 3.3kW charger
-
Hmm how can that charge it in an hour then?
Cas :)
-
When they say it charges in 1-2 hours it would seem they mean it's somewhere between 1 and 2 hours, not that it can range from 1 hour upwards. On another page they say it will fully recharge in under 2 hours.
-
More news, photos and videos regarding the VARG here. It certainly looks impressive, but no word yet if it is on the market, who sells (or will be selling) it or what its price will be. https://thepack.news/stark-future-launches-first-serial-production-model-stark-varg-electric-motocross-motorcycle/
Frankly, it kind of reminds me of the Alta motocross models. ???
-
More news, photos and videos regarding the VARG here. It certainly looks impressive, but no word yet if it is on the market, who sells (or will be selling) it or what its price will be. https://thepack.news/stark-future-launches-first-serial-production-model-stark-varg-electric-motocross-motorcycle/
Frankly, it kind of reminds me of the Alta motocross models. ???
Do these "journalists" live in an alternative reality. " At 110 kg the bike sets the best power-to-weight ratio of any model in any dealership." Like it is available in a dealership?
Pretty sure the price is out there in euros, no shipping quote. Must pay in full before it is shipped. The software is only for the origional purchacer according to the terms and conditions the way I read it. Tunable flywheel effect, traction control, power delivery and updates over the air.
I think some of the folks mentioned in the various articles raced the Alta. The suspention comes from other than the KTM group. I prefer the forks to be the same right vs left which it probably is now.
-
Can you say Supermoto !!!!
-
Can you say Supermoto !!!!
You'd have to make it street legal as there are no lights/mirrors/indicators on it.
-
Would be fairly easy in the UK as none of that is legally required (you're just not allowed to ride when it's dark), would just need a plate mount on the rear, some road legal tyres, and some other little things like reflectors. Only thing I'm not sure about is whether it would need to have a frame number (VIN).
Speaking of electric supermotos and Altas this might interest some of you: https://www.instagram.com/aaroncolton/
-
Here it is in action, looks pretty impressive and clearly aimed at the empty Alta space. I see it uses horizontally mounted cylindrical battery cells. Sounds familiar. ;) Also it's $12k which was top end Alta money.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozEEvlgtTPE
-
I'm thrilled there is a new player in the space of Alta, and hope they do well long term!
-
With the death of Alta and Zero not really interested in off-road racing, there does seem to be a wide-open market opportunity for a powerful electric off-road racing motorcycle in the market - provided Stark can keep the price low enough to fit the budgets of its potential customers.
-
There really isn't a class for an electric motorcycle. I am involved with trail rider groups that means enduro hare scramble and turkey run. Since these things only seem suitable for the hare scramble sure if you are old enough to enter your age as in vet senior super senior masters there is a class. They don't state nominal voltage and amp hours so it is hard to know their claimed power supplly needs multiplied by 3.6/4.0 or not. Our series for C riders is an hour and a half or so and two hours or so for A,B. Or so probably means that time pluse whatever it takes the leader to come to the line. and then the race ends for everyone else as they come to the line. There is another series that has two half hour i guess they are called motos. Those guys could likely bring generators and perhaps little electric fans with water mist to aim at battery. As for the motox I suppose it might have enough power for qualify and race in the lower classes the A or pro classes not sure. I have read that when the riders jump into the air they can pull in the clutch and either rev the engine or apply the rear brake to adjust for which wheel to land first. This may be a detriment, motox is rather injury prone in the folks I know that have done it, removed spleen, punctured lung, one leg shorter than the other that I can easily think of off hand.
It sure is nice and narrow like my ktm freeride. Same weight though.
They are doing the order the size wheel you want unlike Alta was just take the 19 inch one or get the registerable one but when I got the ktm they only had one model.
As far as who the potential market or buyers and their funds, the hauler vehicles are always getting bigger and more expensive. It is probably not unrealistic for many folks to spend enough to buy a gold wing in a year of going to events.
-
Fran K the KTM Freeride isn't even close to this bike.
The Varg has 80 HP while the KYM has 12 or 24 max, the website wasn't very clear.
If you are saying they weigh the same then it "really" isn't even close.
The Varg has a 6kWh battery to the KYM 4kWh pack, so if there is a race length that the KTM can do then the Varg can do it too.
All that with only a $1.5k price increase.
KTM needs to wake up and make some bigger more powerful bikes.
-
Not even remotely close -
KTM Freeride E-XC 2022
Engine ; Rated output 9kW (12 hp) @ 4500 rpm ; Torque 42 Nm ; Transmission Single-speed automatic ; Traction battery Lithium-ion KTM PowerPack (easily removed)
-
It's a motocross bike and Stark say it has enough range for a race, and it sounds like it would be competitive with the gas bikes and maybe even superior. They also say it will do 6 hours of trail riding for those that would rather explore than race.
-
My comment was pertaining to the width of the motor area. That is all I meant to compare the Alta (edit looks like I was saying this Stark is similarly narrow) sure seems to be wider in that case in the battery area, likewise in this Stark Varg it looks like the battery is what folks are wondering about making a skid plate for.
The battery I currently have is 3.9kwh and that is using nominal voltage and amp hours that are on the battery itself. It is removabeable and I estimate 60 pounds. This is going to go like they specified 2170 cells and 6kwh how many will be necessary. Kind of like over in the Damon section if you recall. From fully discharged it took a little over 4kwh to recharge it from the meter I put in line with the charger.
At the end Alta gave a choice of two chargers that were not included in the published price. This outfit may well do the same. At the end there were quite a few new registerable Alta bikes for sale on cycletrader, not the one with the newest battery, newest fork option, and more potent mode 4 but priced at about $9000. So with a charger about $10,000. I really think they cound not sell them. They Pilgrim Motorsports did have a day where they brought a test bike out for some club members to try, for some reason I never got the invite. Two guys bought one I believe, I saw one new at the parking lot for the hare scramble, another guy had another one essentiallly using as a pit bike but no one that I know of has brought one to a work party, club ride or entered an event. I tried to get the ktm dealer to loan me a spare pattery to put a hot kid on it and they had no spare batteries.
Why ktm has not offered something in the battery bike in a new configuration is puzzling. Perhaps it has to do with safety? Maybe the traction control, anti go over backwards software isn't there?
-
Fran K a lot of your posts are all over the place and hard to understand.
You said the Varg is as narrow and weighs the same as your KTM. Based on your statement myself and Starpower and TheRan pointed out that the Varg seems to be a much more powerful and longer range bike for just a bit more money. They talk about having a floating dual compound skid plate so that's covered.
The Varg would have been a close option to the old Alta. I have a saved link on Cycle Trader that lists the Altas for sale. I have seen them listed for $12k for the EXR models, used, and be sold in a couple weeks. So almost no depreciation since they went out of business.
If they sell this Varg soon and can deliver them soon then I would say the Altas will go down in value since you can now get a powerful electric dirt bike from someone other than Alta.
When I posted this: "I see it uses horizontally mounted cylindrical battery cells. Sounds familiar. ;) " I was of course referring to Damon.
I am pointing out that at least 2 companies see that as the superior way to build a battery pack.
We'll see if they are right in the years to come.
-
"If they sell this Varg soon and can deliver them soon " On the other forum adv rider one guy from europe got an expected delivery date of late in 2022 and a guy in the USA got an expected delivery date of late in 2024. Wander over there and see for yourself.
-
The Stark comes with a 3.3kW external charger that will fully charge it in just under 2 hours
-
The Stark comes with a 3.3kW external charger that will fully charge it in just under 2 hours
I found it, included in the $11900 price if deposit is placed now. I quote from the site linked in post 1 here.
"It will comfortably allow up to 6 hours of easy trail riding or complete a full ‘moto’ at MXGP intensity and will fully re-charge between 1-2 hours depending on the charger and outlet."
Would reading between the lines then be the 3.3kw charger is included and a 6kw one is available?
I think a moto as in motocross not supercross is 30 minutes plus two laps, a lap being about two minutes for a pro. At least the pro AMA level. And then there is another moto later in the day both count towards points in the championship and are combined for the overall for the day.
-
"If they sell this Varg soon and can deliver them soon " On the other forum adv rider one guy from europe got an expected delivery date of late in 2022 and a guy in the USA got an expected delivery date of late in 2024. Wander over there and see for yourself.
Ok, that was the least important part of my post, but interesting to hear the delivery dates.
-
A little more in action video. The end has what might be the first electric motorcycle back flip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-wgxLz2-O8
-
I found an article about or containing a paragraph or two about if and where to put this motorcycle in the top professional tier of motocross and I suppose supercross. It seems to say that the Stark folks have not yet approached these sanctioning bodies. I think this racerx is affiliated with field entertainment or some similar named entity that promotes these events in the USA. Not even sure what portion of amateur motox where the sales numbers will be are AMA. The off road stuff here in New England is less AMA sanctioned than say 10 or 15 years ago.
"We were at a similar crossroads with the Alta a few years back, and while they were adamant that it belonged in the 250 class, the AMA never really got the chance to make a full assessment of where it belonged. I'm sure the people at Stark Future realize they need to work with the FIM and AMA in helping them understand the potential and the limitations of these new models,"
https://racerxonline.com/2021/12/17/racerhead-51
Probably need at a minimum 200 units for sale.
Southwick Ma. is nearby there were a whole lot of classes before the televised ones last time I went and the schedule for the day is generally available on line.
-
I'm a former bicycle racer and I get the whole classes and ability level concepts. Racing organizers are first and foremost about making money. They need as many people singing up as possible. If you let one guy come in and win every race because he's that much better then people stop coming.
I think our old rule was if you win 5 races in a class in a year you move up.
They could do the same thing for these bikes and just see where they level out at.
But I think a lot of people just want these bikes to go have a blast on and not go fully into racing.
-
They offer the option of either a hand or foot rear brake
-
Yeah the industry seems to be headed for left hand rear brake set ups.
They say it just gives much more modulation.
-
It really does! Waiting for a kit for the SR/F to resurface. Er, and a job.
Cas :)
-
It really does! Waiting for a kit for the SR/F to resurface. Er, and a job.
Cas :)
I wonder if there is a US DOT regulation for highway-legal motorcycles that requires a hand clutch and a foot-operated brake? I have seen left hand brakes on small scooter, but I can't recall seeing such a thing on large scooters or any motorcycles. ???
-
That's how it was on my TMax and X-Adv. Proper motorbikes, those.
Cas :)
-
I highly doubt there's any regulation for it. Most of the time it's done because that's how gas bikes are (except for scooters that don't have a clutch, because a foot brake isn't as easy to implement on them). Even the ones that don't have a clutch like Honda's DCT bikes still have a foot brake. Also being able to brake with the foot is useful, for example if you're stopped on an incline but need to use your hands for something else or just want to keep your brake light on at a traffic light or junction. If I ever get around to fitting a hand rear brake to my bike I'd like to add a splitter so I can keep the foot lever as well.
-
I never once missed the footbrake on either of the maxi scoots. I bet you wouldn't miss it either.
Cas :)
-
I would, as I said I use it for both of those reasons. In fact those are the only times I used it on the road unless it's a country lane covered in crap where the front wheel could slide. Where I do use the rear brake most is off road and that's the reason I want the hand brake, because the foot lever is in an awkward position and it would be nice to be able to brake as well as get my right foot off the peg if needed.
-
There are some pretty credible folks involved in the projuct. $$$ too. The wait kist has grown rapidly.
Dudes with deposits. https://electricdirtriders.com/forums/stark-varg-discussion.92/
-
Here is a video and a "podcast" I came across lately.
The video minutes 3 to 6 shed some light on the Alta saga. Perhaps even somewhat transferable to the Damon project as some folks went there and apparently some went towards this Stark. As pertains to intent of being bought off or doing IPO.
The Podcast one seems to say the guy being interviewed has sold off his position in the european equivelant of Rocky Mountain MC/ATV parts company.
If anyone can figure how the cells can be in contact with the magnesium enclosure and get in series to get to high voltages, please explain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeSEYOKjVhY
https://racerxonline.com/2022/02/03/fly-racing-racer-x-podcast-anton-wass
-
Here is a video and a "podcast" I came across lately.
If anyone can figure how the cells can be in contact with the magnesium enclosure and get in series to get to high voltages, please explain.
Thanks for the link to the video.
Based on the below video it looks like they are planning on having the negative sides of the cells slip into pockets machined in the case. I suspect they will have some sort of isolation between the case and the negative terminals of the cells. Without that there would be no way to have cells in series. Plus the idea of having the battery cases HV- would be a terrible idea. That said as the entire sidewall of a cylindrical cell is the negative terminal they would need to insulate between the cells and the case. Sadly insulation is the enemy of heat transfer.
https://youtu.be/eGhaZDUKzdI?t=42 (https://youtu.be/eGhaZDUKzdI?t=42)
-
That makes sense. At 40 seconds the wording is "connects every cell directly to the casing" same in the closed caption print out on screen.
-
They are paying for targeted ads on youtube. They (add presentation computations) have got me figured out. I put a cropped screen shot to prove it.
-
Here is a review by Revzilla of the Stark VARG electric motocross model that was recently introduced to the press: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/stark-varg-electric-motocross-first-ride
-
Here is another impression from the same trip to Spain with the ice similar bikes to ride around for comparison. I have only listened to 2/3 of the podcast so far.
https://racerxonline.com/2022/06/10/fly-racing-racer-x-podcast-stark-varg-with-jason-thomas
My thoughts so far is that the traction control aspect is not discussed. As I have stated prior this may be why the major players are shy about getting into battery motorcycles, off road. They want to turn it down or add flywheel. This thing is likely dangerous, maybe significantly more so than an ice 450. Looking at lap times for Supercross top 250 guy would have times like 5th place in the 450. Same for off road like GNCC when looking at overall time for an approximately 3 hour race premier class vs light class whatever that involves.