ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Mooseman on September 29, 2021, 06:18:23 PM
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So I was browsing through the SR/S manual and came across the maintenance section. So far I have about 8,000 km or 5,000 miles on the odometer and I haven't had a single service done. The bike is only a few months old.
Although it doesn't apply to my driving style (mostly "old guy") and the settings I chose (regen is set to max), I can see why they want to check the brake pads every 4k miles or 6 months. Personally I only use the brakes below 20 kph when there is no regen available. I'm pretty sure my brake pads will last for years, like they do in my Tesla. Without regen and a more aggressive driving style the tides would turn though, so that's probably why they want to check them every 4K miles. No problem here.
But why in the world would they want to replace the brake fluid every year? AFAIK industry standard is 2 years. Did they come up with that to scare customers so they bring in their bike for a service more often (since dealers can't charge them for oil changes)? This seems totally unnecessary regardless of how you use your bike. Again, in my case I could probably use water as brake fluid since my brakes never get a chance to get hot. The brakes are designed to stop the bike from full speed without regen. The worst that could happen to my brakes would be an emergency braking at 120 kph. There is no way the brake would become inoperative from steam in the brake lines. Anyway, I'm not suggesting to use water or to never change the brake fluid, but seriously, 1 year? That's just ridiculous.
I would however like to hear about other people's experience with the last item on the list: "Drive Motor: Commissioning and Timing". I understand what that item is about, but is that really something that needs to be done on a regular basis? From my understanding it's basically a shaft encoder that tells the electronics the exact position of the motor. This has to be correct, no doubt. But is that something that can change by itself, either spontaneous or over time? Do you guys take your bikes to the shop regularly or is there anyone who has logged 100 K miles without any service? What is your experience?
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My personal subjective assumption for the short time interval for dealer visits: 1. revenue 2.the motorcycle logs overwrite themselves so they show only the last couple of months, this way there is a consistent record how you were riding, charging and storing the motorcycle for possible warranty claims.
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I am in line with what sharagan wrote.
I am soon reaching 33'000 km on my SR/F and, aside from changing a degraded battery pack under warranty (<80%) and the tires every 10-15'000 km or so, there has been very little of significance needed on this bike. At the last service I asked if they had done the recommended and famous "Commissioning and Timing" and was told that they didn't, because (dixit the dealer) there is almost always nothing to do about that. Last year they convinced me to change the brake fluid, against my will initially. Just like you, I use regen and the brakes only for the final stop or emergencies.
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Most motorcycle manufacturers seem to recommend changing the brake fluid after the first year and then every two years after that. That was true of the recommendation in the owner's manual of my BMW R1200RS.
I had my motor commissioned at the 600-mile checkup and didn't notice any difference in performance. I haven't had it done since then and my bike seems to be running as well as it ever did. :)
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Regarding brake fluid: I usually only worry about it when it starts getting dark. Thanks to the clear reservoirs used by Zero its pretty easy to see. I live in a pretty humid climate and after three years it is only now starting to look like it is darkening so a bleed/replace is likely this winter.
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This is how I roll with all my bikes too. When it gets dark and ugly then flush. Makes no sense otherwise.
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Regarding brake fluid: I usually only worry about it when it starts getting dark. Thanks to the clear reservoirs used by Zero its pretty easy to see. I live in a pretty humid climate and after three years it is only now starting to look like it is darkening so a bleed/replace is likely this winter.
I deleted my comments above regarding brake fluid. Obviously, I am having memory issues. :-[ It was the coolant that no longer has to be changed periodically, not brake fluid. However, BMW does seem to be using a new type of hydraulic clutch fluid that does not have to be changed very often, if at all. I too change my brake fluid whenever the color starts to darken.
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The commissioning check is supposed to stop the fault that killed Sam (NewZeroland)'s Zero after years of use.
And I think the annual check for the brakes is to make sure they're not going to fail... all procedures say just use new fluid, which is sorta frustrating, yes. Over time the fluid can absorb water and become less functional or oxidizing.
-Crissa
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The real worry with water absorption is that it boils the water when you use the brakes, and then suddenly you've got a pocket of steam and no braking. Yikes!
Cas :)
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suddenly you've got a pocket of steam and no braking. Yikes!
It's worse than that. Vapour lock jams the brakes ON. :o
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It's worse than that. Vapour lock jams the brakes ON. :o
Do you have a source for that? For the last 40 years or so I have been under the impression the the water in the brake fluid starts to boil when it gets hot, causing steam bubbles and rendering the break inoperative. I've never heard or read anywhere that the breaks can lock up because of old brake fluid.
Also, thanks everybody for all the responses, much appreciated.
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Not sure if it is exactly that but I witnessed a friend of mine being catapulted in the air due to the front brake of his bike which locked up as it overheated on a cart track.
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For the last 40 years or so I have been under the impression the the water in the brake fluid starts to boil when it gets hot, causing steam bubbles and rendering the break inoperative.
Steam takes up more space than water, increasing the pressure in the system.
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Not to mention that water is corrosive and attacks the metals in your braking system...
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On my last 3 ICE bikes, 2 x Yamaha FJ1200 + Honda CBF 750, which I bought used and drove over a period of 20 years totaling over 100'000 km, I did all the services myself and had the brake fluid changed only once, because once while change tires a dealer noticed it was getting a bit too dark. On my mountain bikes, same stories, I won't change it unless braking is not functioning as I expect.
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Indeed, back on topic, but one of the reasons we may have noticed service intervals of bikes and especially cars getting further and further apart - that new Ducati is something nuts like 30,000 miles? - is because manufacturers noticed that when mechanics fiddle with stuff they break it as often as not, and it was more financially shrewd to have them simply not service things and avoid having to stump up for warranty claims. So if it ain't broke...
Cas :)
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I would however like to hear about other people's experience with the last item on the list: "Drive Motor: Commissioning and Timing".
I had my motor commissioned at 5,548 mostly-WOT-dirt miles, hoping to resolve a surging problem. It was a waste of time and money for me. According to the invoice, "the offset was 50.0, after doing this the offset has been at 49.56, 2 times in a row" - i.e., negligible. If the encoder etc. had no issues after many thousands of shock events, I doubt it would have problems requiring service from normal street usage.
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For the last 40 years or so I have been under the impression the the water in the brake fluid starts to boil when it gets hot, causing steam bubbles and rendering the break inoperative.
Steam takes up more space than water, increasing the pressure in the system.
Vapor compress so brake pressure will drop as the un-compressible fluid has more space to occupy.
That’s why pumping the brakes builds pressure as this allows the vapor to continue to compress further each pump.
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If the encoder etc. had no issues after many thousands of shock events, I doubt it would have problems requiring service from normal street usage.
...And yet they do fail. Talk to NewZeroland about it?
-Crissa
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Everything fails, eventually. Just sharing my actual experience, and $.02.
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So I was browsing through the SR/S manual and came across the maintenance section. So far I have about 8,000 km or 5,000 miles on the odometer and I haven't had a single service done. The bike is only a few months old.
FWIW I've put almost 16k miles on my 20 SRS and never had any servicing done. I could not get a straight answer from them about commissioning, and they refused to do it by itself, only bundled with a bunch of stuff I didnt want to pay for. So I thought I'll just risk it and nothing happened, nothing seems any different. Only two problems I've had with the bike were the rubbish front rotors I replaced myself with EBC models according to the counsel people provided me in this forum. And also, more recently, this latest firmware upgrade seems to have set my custom mode maximum speed to 108MPH and it cant be changed. They are looking into it and I've sent a couple emails back and forth. But as to commissioning, never did it. Nothing happened. Maybe dumb luck IDK.