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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: idle on September 08, 2021, 11:49:35 AM

Title: Did my charger just die?
Post by: idle on September 08, 2021, 11:49:35 AM
Hey y'all, just got back from a ride on my 2016 DSR, my state of charge is at 34%.

When I plug in the charger (stock) the contactor clicks twice before the instrument cluster flashes a bunch at me. There is no error code associated with the problem, but my bike isn't charging.

Is this a known issue for failing stock chargers?
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: DonTom on September 08, 2021, 12:26:09 PM

Hey y'all, just got back from a ride on my 2016 DSR, my state of charge is at 34%.

When I plug in the charger (stock) the contactor clicks twice before the instrument cluster flashes a bunch at me. There is no error code associated with the problem, but my bike isn't charging.

Is this a known issue for failing stock chargers?
I will say "probably"  on that one. I have not heard of the flashes or the double click, but low voltage can sometimes cause weird problems, but 34% SOC is not all that low as you're charging.   But it could be that there is ripple or other garbage in the output of the OBC causing weird problems. Do you believe the 34% SOC is reasonably accurate and you're not seeing a false SOC reading on a very discharged battery?

What I would do is try an external charger (such as the  DeltaQ that Zero sells) with the bike's key on and see if it then will charge. I would do such without using the OBC at all. If it charges okay then, I would say that is very good evidence that your OBC is flakey. But if you still have the same problem, then it is NOT caused by your OBC.

I assume it is caused by your OBC being flakey,  but I have not heard of those symptoms before, and I don't really want to guess. But theose OBS's do crap out a lot, just without those type of symptoms (AFAIK).

-Don-  Reno, NV
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: idle on September 08, 2021, 12:57:11 PM
Thanks for the reply, I do believe the current 34% is accurate, the bike will turn on and work just fine, but won't charge.

I've got a video of it all here
Code: [Select]
http://meow.ciphercat.org/v/obc_fail.mp4
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: MrBlc on September 08, 2021, 02:19:10 PM
The log would most likely tell you what's wrong.
Sometimes it helps to let the bike rest after riding too..
If it's not taking charge after waiting say a couple of hours, get the logs and paste them in here unless they make sense to you. :)
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: Richard230 on September 08, 2021, 07:20:55 PM
The double click means that the charger is being enabled by the MMB. But that flashing display might mean that the charger is being tested and has been found to have a problem.  My 2014 S did that one time. I read the owner's manual and somewhere in that document it mentioned that a flashing screen while the charger was plugged in is an indication of the charger being tested and the test is indicating a fault. But when I unplugged the charger cord, turned on the ignition and then turned it off and I plugged the charger in again, everything went back to normal and I never saw that flashing screen again. However, for the next couple of years the charger slowly stopped charging to 100% SOC and when it eventually wouldn't charge past 88%, I finally replaced the OBC with a new one and charging has worked like new ever since.
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: DonTom on September 11, 2021, 01:56:24 AM
The double click means that the charger is being enabled by the MMB.
Are you referring to the contactor? I thought I have only been hearing a single click.


-Don-  Reno, NV
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: Richard230 on September 11, 2021, 02:50:24 AM
The double click means that the charger is being enabled by the MMB.
Are you referring to the contactor? I thought I have only been hearing a single click.


-Don-  Reno, NV

On my bike, when I plug in the charger I hear two clicks. Or maybe you could call it a double-click.  I just plugged in my bike and it went "click, click".
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: DonTom on September 11, 2021, 03:25:03 AM
On my bike, when I plug in the charger I hear two clicks. Or maybe you could call it a double-click.  I just plugged in my bike and it went "click, click".
I think the power tank has its own contactor. I only get a single click on my DS, I just checked it a few seconds ago.


My  SR with powertank is in Auburn.   I will check for the double click when I get back there, perhaps early next week.


-Don-  Reno, NV
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: DonTom on September 11, 2021, 03:26:59 AM
Hey y'all, just got back from a ride on my 2016 DSR, my state of charge is at 34%.

When I plug in the charger (stock) the contactor clicks twice before the instrument cluster flashes a bunch at me. There is no error code associated with the problem, but my bike isn't charging.

Is this a known issue for failing stock chargers?
Do you have the PowerTank?


-Don-  Reno, NV
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: idle on November 11, 2021, 03:40:27 AM
I don't have the powertank, just the single 13kWh battery

Just got a call back from the dealership, they said the issue is still happening even though they replaced the charger... They claimed Zero said the charger was dead and recommended switching it out, so I argued if the issue is still happening I don't understand why I just bought an entirely new charger..

I'm really pissed, the work isn't getting done - I just have to wait even longer to see if they can narrow issues down
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: DonTom on November 11, 2021, 11:26:41 AM
I don't have the powertank, just the single 13kWh battery

Just got a call back from the dealership, they said the issue is still happening even though they replaced the charger... They claimed Zero said the charger was dead and recommended switching it out, so I argued if the issue is still happening I don't understand why I just bought an entirely new charger..

I'm really pissed, the work isn't getting done - I just have to wait even longer to see if they can narrow issues down
I have to wonder if it's the MBB causing the issue.


I take it you do not have a DeltaQ charger laying around. That would confirm it's NOT a charger problem if you then have the same symptoms.


-Don-  Reno, NV
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: Zeromotorcycles on November 11, 2021, 11:09:53 PM
I don't have the powertank, just the single 13kWh battery

Just got a call back from the dealership, they said the issue is still happening even though they replaced the charger... They claimed Zero said the charger was dead and recommended switching it out, so I argued if the issue is still happening I don't understand why I just bought an entirely new charger..

I'm really pissed, the work isn't getting done - I just have to wait even longer to see if they can narrow issues down

Would you mind sending us a DM with the last 5 digits of your VIN and we will look into this?
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: DonTom on November 13, 2021, 11:45:07 AM
On my bike, when I plug in the charger I hear two clicks. Or maybe you could call it a double-click.  I just plugged in my bike and it went "click, click".
I kinda forgot to check until now. Yes, my 2017 SR has a double click. My 2017 DS does NOT.


My SR has the power tank, the DS does not.


So that confirms the double click is from the  two contactors, one for each battery.


Both the bikes are here, so it's easy to compare.


I now  have the DS loaded up on my new RV. I am headed towards to the Florida Everglades.


-Don-  Auburn, CA
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: ESokoloff on November 13, 2021, 10:16:16 PM
……..


I now  have the DS loaded up on my new RV. I am headed towards to the Florida Everglades.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

Safe travels Don.
Maybe check out on upcoming launch from Kennedy?
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: idle on January 25, 2022, 10:41:14 AM
Small update, Zero has no good will left in em  >:( And maybe I shouldn't expect it, I'm just bummed. After 30k miles the things just show their issues.

Last year I replaced the motor due to its bearing failing, through no fault of my own - paid out of pocket as many others here have.

Currently in a 5+ month process of diagnosing an issue with charging,

1: They make me pay for a charger, $800 and issue isn't fixed
2: Buy a new $400 controller, installed and issue isn't fixed
3: Next up is a $600 harness, which I'm now waiting on..

It got so bad the mechanic basically asked me if I wanted the bike back as is... like they themselves are getting tired of it and I'm the burden for wanting my bike fixed.

The bike ran for 20k+ miles and charged just fine with a custom ignition switch - which I know some of you have done to your bikes too - but they wanna switch that out. So in this enormous process of elimination, parts and labor for the bike since 2016 and 40k miles is now around $4,950 in repairs beyond MSRP, and may be more.

I miss the days seeing customers getting good faith treatment from Zero, which in my opinion was a necessary backing for how small they are.
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: valnar on January 25, 2022, 08:27:33 PM
I'm sorry to hear about your experience.  I'm a "one and done" kind of guy.  So far my FXS is fine, but if I ever had that treatment from Zero, it would be my last.  Then back to a Honda.  Life is too short to play these games.
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: slant911 on January 25, 2022, 09:58:04 PM
Yeah I am not terribly happy about their process of elimination in just tossing parts at the problem.  My 2020 SRS is currently now on its 3rd week at the dealer waiting on a part to get to them that I am almost certain will not fix my NO Charging issue and am figuring another month to get the next part shipped and installed.  It astounds me that a company that is near the cutting edge of technology in this arena doesn't have a very straight forward and fool proof way of knowing what is going on with these bikes.  In my mind you should hook it up to a diagnostic computer and absolutely know whats going on.  Not keep chucking parts at it.
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: Zeromotorcycles on January 26, 2022, 01:28:52 AM
Small update, Zero has no good will left in em  >:( And maybe I shouldn't expect it, I'm just bummed. After 30k miles the things just show their issues.

Last year I replaced the motor due to its bearing failing, through no fault of my own - paid out of pocket as many others here have.

Currently in a 5+ month process of diagnosing an issue with charging,

1: They make me pay for a charger, $800 and issue isn't fixed
2: Buy a new $400 controller, installed and issue isn't fixed
3: Next up is a $600 harness, which I'm now waiting on..

It got so bad the mechanic basically asked me if I wanted the bike back as is... like they themselves are getting tired of it and I'm the burden for wanting my bike fixed.

The bike ran for 20k+ miles and charged just fine with a custom ignition switch - which I know some of you have done to your bikes too - but they wanna switch that out. So in this enormous process of elimination, parts and labor for the bike since 2016 and 40k miles is now around $4,950 in repairs beyond MSRP, and may be more.

I miss the days seeing customers getting good faith treatment from Zero, which in my opinion was a necessary backing for how small they are.

Hello, we are having an engineer follow up with you via email regarding this and your custom ignition switch.
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: slant911 on January 26, 2022, 03:46:15 AM
Yeah I am not terribly happy about their process of elimination in just tossing parts at the problem.  My 2020 SRS is currently now on its 3rd week at the dealer waiting on a part to get to them that I am almost certain will not fix my NO Charging issue and am figuring another month to get the next part shipped and installed.  It astounds me that a company that is near the cutting edge of technology in this arena doesn't have a very straight forward and fool proof way of knowing what is going on with these bikes.  In my mind you should hook it up to a diagnostic computer and absolutely know whats going on.  Not keep chucking parts at it.

Just got the call from the dealer that the part they received was installed and low and behold does not fix the issue....So we go on to the next part to "try"  ::)
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: 2020_SRS_Commuter on February 02, 2022, 09:44:43 AM
It seems like if they aren't sure a high priced part is faulty, they ought to have a test jig to attach it to. The customer bike should not be the only platform to determine if something works or not.

The worst they could do is have some central Zero shop, where suspect parts could be overnighted by the dealer and Zero could have representations of all motorcycle models. Not actual motorcycles, but assemblies for testing that represent the motorcycles, where all the parts can be plugged in and out easily. That way if they aren't going to break out voltages and signals for troubleshooting but merely use rote part substitution to solve issues, they can be sure parts are faulty before they ask you to pay for them.

It sounds like they told you to pay for parts to install that did not solve the problem. That's how I read it anyway. If that was the case, I would be VERY upset. If you are buying parts, be sure to tell them you want your old ones back, no matter what happens.
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: slant911 on February 04, 2022, 03:42:32 AM
It seems like if they aren't sure a high priced part is faulty, they ought to have a test jig to attach it to. The customer bike should not be the only platform to determine if something works or not.

The worst they could do is have some central Zero shop, where suspect parts could be overnighted by the dealer and Zero could have representations of all motorcycle models. Not actual motorcycles, but assemblies for testing that represent the motorcycles, where all the parts can be plugged in and out easily. That way if they aren't going to break out voltages and signals for troubleshooting but merely use rote part substitution to solve issues, they can be sure parts are faulty before they ask you to pay for them.

It sounds like they told you to pay for parts to install that did not solve the problem. That's how I read it anyway. If that was the case, I would be VERY upset. If you are buying parts, be sure to tell them you want your old ones back, no matter what happens.


You would think that this is terribly expensive way to do things... Just heard from my dealer on my no charging issue.  On to part number 3...wiring harness of some kind.  Part one was the charging port..almost 2 weeks of time.  Then charger...another week and a couple of days.  Now this wiring harness is being ordered today which will take another almost week to get here then install.  It is the weirdest way to troubleshoot and fix something.  Really should have test mules or something like that at these dealers so they can determine first time what the problem is.  So aggravated.... >:(
Title: Re: Did my charger just die?
Post by: idle on February 10, 2022, 11:43:41 AM
It sounds like they told you to pay for parts to install that did not solve the problem. That's how I read it anyway. If that was the case, I would be VERY upset.

This is exactly what's happening, I'm at about $2,900 so far with no end in sight.

I have 208k followers on tiktok and they might hear the brutal truth, I wish this were easier.

Also I got an email from Zero stating they didn't know why my dealership needed to order a harness, I'm not so bent up about that because there is definitely a problem that hasn't been identified yet, but jesus