ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: NetPro on August 19, 2021, 12:37:01 AM
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Edit: Not 22K miles, actually, 2200 miles)
Happened a couple of hours ago on a city street perfectly paved and totally clean of loose gravel and such. NOT good I say!
Was waiting at the light and when green, gave it about 20/25% throttle and after the bike moved a few feet, it just broke and that is all she wrote.
It did propel me to the other side of the intersection but it certainly is not an experience I care to repeat.
Precisely to avoid this, I baby-sat that belt like if my life depended on it and had it perfectly aligned (the small gap on the shoulder side of the cog wheel) and on the lower end of the scale using the Gates app Carbon Drive to adjust the tension.
I weigh 175lbs in street clothes and only had my helmet extra this morning as it was a very nice morning.
Just checked about a week ago and all was very clean and well. Then this non-sense happens >:(
So, I will not trust another belt regardless. Have had enough of that plus what I have read on this forum itself for the last couple of years.
Now, I too, am one of the unlucky ones that have had belt failures.
After searching this forum I found no reference to a specific conversion of an SR/F to chain: Just the pros and cons and some thoughts and comments on doing it.
I am thinking to remove the sprocket and cog wheel and take it --more likely, send it-- to a very high-end facility (super-duper machine shop) where not only they can make it a perfect fit but also use the correct materials when making the 2 parts.
I know it won't be cheap but I don't care if the work is done right and I can ride the bike without the fear of this happening again.
Can anybody recommend a place with the know-how and the equipment to make these 2 parts?
Or maybe there is a kit out there that my searches failed to find
TIA
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Can you tell if there is any evidence of damage on the belt? I only ask because on my SR/S I picked up some debris and it pushed itself through the belt, the belt did not break but a good percentage if it's width was damage and I found it on my weekly inspection. I replaced the belt.
On my previous bike, a Buell, I rode that for almost 12 years on the same belt, but others broke their belts due to belt damage. Hence the question.
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Yeah, when the belt broke doesn't mean when the belt took damage.
-Crissa
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Can you tell if there is any evidence of damage on the belt? I only ask because on my SR/S I picked up some debris and it pushed itself through the belt, the belt did not break but a good percentage if it's width was damage and I found it on my weekly inspection. I replaced the belt.
On my previous bike, a Buell, I rode that for almost 12 years on the same belt, but others broke their belts due to belt damage. Hence the question.
I took a good look at the belt ends when I was able to grab it but by then many cars have ran over it causing scuffs and marks on it. It is a pretty busy intersection.
But, no, I don't believe there was any damage and that is what bothers me: If some debris get caught there, then belt breakage is justified and explainable.
Most of my riding is on super clean, fairly new roads. But I understand a single piece of junk getting caught in the wrong spot can cause belt damage.
I wish Zero would sell a conversion kit for those not wishing to take chances with belt damage. It is going to be quite difficult to find a machine shop willing to make a quality rear sprocket.
The front one should be a lot easier to make because of its geometry and much smaller size.
Not knowing how much noisier the bike is going to be after the conversion is the biggest drag but I am going to try it and see how it goes.
I can always revert back to the belt if I cannot tolerate the noise (I doubt it will be that bad if done right, after all tons of current top-of-the-line ICE models still use chains).
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I'm glad to hear you're alright! It's stressful the first few times experiencing a broken belt on e-moto, indeed. :o
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4000 miles here, still going strong, fingers crossed. To be fair I never had any trouble with my other two belt driven bikes (F800STs) but maybe I'm lucky.
Cas :)
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That is strange. Harley Davidson have been using belts for ages. When investigating belt longevity online, you'll often come across 100'000 km, I have even seen 100'000 miles. I am nearing 30'000 km on my SR/F with the original belt and never did anything on it. I never properly checked its tension. I did make sure before changing the rear tires, that the mechanics had previous experience with belt drive, typically with changing tires on Harley Davidson bikes.
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Is there any way to rig up some guards to keep debris out? Some sort of shielding?
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Perhaps the OP was just unlucky and received a defective drive belt?
And speaking of drive belts, I wonder if Zero is still using Gates-brand belts? The replacement belts that I bought (and never needed to use) for my 2014 Zero S and 2018 Zero S were marked with a Gates brand and model number. Could Zero have switched to a different drive belt supplier?
I still recall the brand name of the Japanese-manufactured rubber drive belt used on my 1985 Kawasaki GPz305. The brand name was "Bando". :o While the name likely seemed appropriate to the Japanese, it didn't provide a high level of confidence to me that it would have had a long life. However, as it turned out, the Bando belt was more durable than 305's electronic ignition components. ;)
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A belt breaks often because of too much tension. When the tension is too low, the teeth will break off. I don t trust the app or tension tools to adjust the tension (just feel if it has just a little bit of play ) I is not a guitar string. One should not adjust it ,unless when you install a new one. It doesn t get longer like a chain does.
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No indeed, they get shorter with age, especially in the first few hundred miles, so they need loosening off slightly.
Zero are still using Gates btw. I imagine there must be the odd duff belt amongst them.
Cas :)
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The original belt on my SR/F broke at 54 miles, the very day I bought the bike. The replacement is still going strong at nearly 7400 miles. I prefer belt over chain so much, that if I feel the need to preemptively replace the belt every 20,000 miles, I'm okay with that. ;D
Oh, and I've had a chain break in the past, too. It was much scarier and messier. Plenty of fast-flying greasy mass involved. I'll stick with a belt!
BTW, I think a tight belt is a good belt. Any looseness creates a shock load when quickly braking/accelerating.
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The original belt on my SR/F broke at 54 miles, the very day I bought the bike. The replacement is still going strong at nearly 7400 miles. I prefer belt over chain so much, that if I feel the need to preemptively replace the belt every 20,000 miles, I'm okay with that. ;D
Oh, and I've had a chain break in the past, too. It was much scarier and messier. Plenty of fast-flying greasy mass involved. I'll stick with a belt!
BTW, I think a tight belt is a good belt. Any looseness creates a shock load when quickly braking/accelerating.
I often wonder why new belts break. Could it be it was mishandled at the factory? Could it be a design defect? So many possibilities and in many cases, we will never know.
On my two Zeros, the plan is to replace the belt on the 2nd rear tire change. They each have had one rear tire change already.
I have around 14,000 miles / 22.5 km on each of my Zeros. The DS gets the most use, but the SR is for MUCH longer trips. And the odometers are usually fairly close to each other. Each has the original; belt.
But I always let go of the throttle when I notice a bump coming up, such as a railroad track or a speed bump. I am often in the eco mode. And I usually ride like a little old lady. Perhaps all of that is best for the belt.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Is the belt on the gen3 set tighter?
or maybe the torque is kind of to much for it?
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Electric bike may have a lot of torque at the motor but I'm pretty sure there are belt drive gas bikes out there that put more torque to the wheel in 1st gear without snapping them.
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Way more torque, yes.
I suspect that early snapping not caused by actual debris is due to alignment of the belt changing, or tension changing, shortly after installation. We may never know...
Cas :)
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Electric bike may have a lot of torque at the motor but I'm pretty sure there are belt drive gas bikes out there that put more torque to the wheel in 1st gear without snapping them.
You mean like my thousand pound Harley (listed below)? But that belt is VERY thick compared tp a Zero belt.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Oggi ho chiesto al concessionario, se fosse arrivata, la cinghia ordinata a luglio, mi ha risposto che non le consegnano e che 4 moto sono ferme per la cinghia rotta, assurdo!! Io devo centellinare la mia visto che ha percorso 45000km . Ma non è possibile acquistarla direttamente in fabbrica. ?
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Ciao italia,
puoi acquistare la nuova belt e altri pezzi qui' in USA, tramite questo concessionario; la Zero non vende direttamente al pubblico!
Controlla il modello
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https://www.af1racing.com/OEM-Zero-Drive-Belt-151-Teeth-ZM30-08226
Ciao!
Giacomo
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Grazie Giacomo, sito molto interessante, domani da computer eseguo l ordine, ho visto che av magazzini ne hanno 8 pezzi, e già che ci sono acquistò, anche il calibro per tarare la tensione della cinghia. . Domani mi danno risposta sulla situazione della moto.
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ok cinghia ordinata ed anche il misuratore tensione cinghia. grazie , ancora , Giacomo , per l'indirizzo dello store , quando passo da te ti pago una birra, ;D
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cinghia e kit taraturaarrivati, prezzo tra trasporto e tasse come in italia ,dal concessionario, ma almeno ce lo qui in casa . per ammortizzare la spesa del trasporto 47€ occorrerebbe mettersi d'accordo in 2 o 3 persone .
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ok cinghia ordinata ed anche il misuratore tensione cinghia. grazie , ancora , Giacomo , per l'indirizzo dello store , quando passo da te ti pago una birra, ;D
Ovviamente IPA, qui' a San Diego si trovano solo quelle ... ;).
Io avevo una SR '15 ... sigh ... modificata tutta LED, parabrezza e bauletto, costruito un caricatore da 6,6KW ... poi due bimbi ... niente piu' moto elettrica ... per un po'!
Per la cinghia, qua' ad un certo punto si trovava una cinghia di gomma che poteva essere usata in situazioni di emergenza, nel caso si rompesse quella vera! La facevi passare dalla ruota di dietro, ovviamente smontata, e la potevi legare in modo che prendesse pochissimo spazio.
Ho visto che ci sono anche cinghie che sono aperte e possono essere riattaccate, sempre per emergenza, ma non sono piu' nel giro e non so' dove le potresti trovare.
Io comunque una extra cinghia la terrei sempre anche solo in casa, non si sa' mai .....
Se non lo conosci gia', questo e' un bel sito per varie informazioni sulle zero: https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Main_Page
Ciao!
Giacomo
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Tu pensa che chi ha acquistato la Gates, è un mio cliente qui di Varèse, ma dal loro sito non è possibile acquistare questa cinghia perché non è a catalogo. È Incredibile.
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To me, this sounds like a manufacturer defect. My 2020 SR/F belt broke at 54 miles. Yes, the day I bought it! Luckily, I was less than a mile from home. I got it replaced under warranty, and have over 8k on the replacement belt now with no further trouble. I bought a spare replacement belt, just in case.
I would recommend to try a new belt before going to chain drive. When it doesn't fail, it's sure far more pleasant than a chain!
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To me, this sounds like a manufacturer defect. My 2020 SR/F belt broke at 54 miles. Yes, the day I bought it!
My guess would be the shop that put the bike together didn't know how to correctly align and adjust the belt. Perhaps they installed it too tight.
I have ~14,000 miles / 22,500KM on each of my Zero belts.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Belt Anecdote #234:
The other day I took my bike to Davant Bikes in Torquay to have a pair of Michelins fitted. The reason I rode it 70 miles to Torquay instead of 10 miles to my usual tyre guy was I figured I wanted someone who's seen Zeros before fiddle with the belt, largely due to stuff in this thread.
When I went to get back on the bike on its nice new tyres I noticed the belt was literally hanging off of the side of the sprocket by 2mm! Rotating the wheel showed it moving in and out on the sprocket.
So I duly summoned the mechanic and made him fix it. Eventually he got it so that when the wheel was rotated the belt remained perfectly in place with a 1mm gap from the sprocket edge, as it should be. It turned out that their mechanic hadn't ever actually changed a tyre on a Zero before. If I'd facepalmed any harder I would have a brain injury.
Rode it home and all seems well, though I've not checked the belt tension yet (I run mine at 55kg).
Cas :)
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Surely changing a tyre wouldn't require any adjustment of the belt? You can leave the adjusters where they are, pop out the spindle, change the tyre, and put the spindle back. (At least you can on most bikes with chains - I'll have to go double-check my SR/F now.) It might be a little snug getting the spindle back in, but not too tricky.
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I have no idea what he actually did in the workshop coz I wasn't watching :-\
Cas :)
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You would think by now that belt drives would be all figured out. I recall I had a belt drive on a 2000 Buell X1 Lightning I owned. Never any discussion about it.
The 2017 FXS that I bought about 6 months ago from a woman in Sarasota has over 12,000 miles on its original belt. And she stored the bike outside all the time. When I got it and bought a belt tension gauge, I found the belt to be on the high side of the tension range too. I loosened it up a bit and the bike seems a bit more quiet now. Although yesterday I was reviewing an owners manual and it says a loose belt gives less range. I do wonder though if the belt is very tight, isn't it also putting more stress on the motor shaft bearings?
As for changing a tire with a belt drive, I think I would reduce the belt tension prior to removing the axle. You might be able to get by without doing it but it would probably be a big struggle getting the axle back in place. Of course if you don't own a belt tension gauge then you are probably not going to have the proper tension when you put the wheel back on the bike.