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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Richard230 on July 22, 2021, 04:39:38 AM
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I just heard on a CBS Financial news report that Tesla has announced that they will soon allow other EV's to use their Superstation facilities. I wonder what their own vehicle owners will feel about that when they arrive at a Superstation and find that all of the spaces are filled with both Teslas and other brand's vehicles? ??? I didn't hear any further details regarding the story, though.
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I wonder how that is supposed to work. First of all, other vehicles will require an adapter that can withstand hundreds of Amps.
Secondly, how does the payment work? Tesla drivers just plug in their vehicle and the station will automatically identify the vehicle and bill its owner. Ideally there is a credit card on file and everything happens automatically. But how do they identify non-Tesla vehicles?
Obviously I would be pissed if I had to wait while non-Teslas are using the supercharger, but I guess there is not much I could do.
Generally speaking I think it would be great if there were chargers that work for any kind of vehicle without the need to use an adapter. Unfortunately that's not the reality in North America.
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I think that applied to Europe where the Superchargers have a CCS plug.
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Oh ok. That probably makes a lot more sense then.
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I think that applied to Europe where the Superchargers have a CCS plug.
If that is the case, that information certainly wasn't mentioned in the 30-second announcement. ::) No big surprise there. Perhaps I will see an article in my newspaper soon with more details.
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They're starting with opening up their network in Norway, and will gradually move out from there. It'll obviously be a very long time until Tesla opens their network up in North America for reasons already mentioned here.
Some day, Tesla's going to have to put CCS1 cables in their Supercharger stalls. Also, any car attempting to Supercharge will have to be registered on Tesla's end for automatic payments. Hopefully Tesla switches to 800V by then.
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Yeah, first places will be in Europe, or countries with mandated plugs.
The manufacturer will have to prove their cars work, and then users can make Tesla accounts. It'll be plug and play after that.
They'll eventually come out with adapters in other markets.
Seems pretty straightforward. By opening it up, Tesla can access infrastructure rewards.
-Crissa
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I just heard on a CBS Financial news report that Tesla has announced that they will soon allow other EV's to use their Superstation facilities. I wonder what their own vehicle owners will feel about that when they arrive at a Superstation and find that all of the spaces are filled with both Teslas and other brand's vehicles? ??? I didn't hear any further details regarding the story, though.
Is this something new, besides new vaporware?
I once read that Tesla SCs were always open to anybody who would redesign their cars to work with their SCs, and billing system, but they had no takers.
And is a bad idea for some areas. The last time I was in Mt. View, there was a wait to use a Supercharger and that was all Teslas waiting in line to use a SC. How much longer should these lines be?
-Don- Reno, NV
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And is a bad idea for some areas. The last time I was in Mt. View, there was a wait to use a Supercharger and that was all Teslas waiting in line to use a SC. How much longer should these lines be?
The more EVs capable of charging, the more efficient it is to have more charging locations.
Mountain View charging is constrained by zoning and permitting, so should we limit all Tesla sales by hw many charging locations Mountain View will allow?
-Crissa
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The one paragraph discussion on the radio mentioned something about Tesla having a unique power cord plug that they originally developed because there was no industry standard to copy and that they needed to come up with a power connector that would work at their U.S. Supercharging stations so other EVs could charge at their stations. Designing and installing a universal connector for use by other EVs would be a challenge that they needed to work on. I haven't heard any more about this subject since yesterday.
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Mountain View charging is constrained by zoning and permitting, so should we limit all Tesla sales by hw many charging locations Mountain View will allow?
-Crissa
There is a very simple fix. When so many SCs are being used (this is info they already have), at any location, say 80% or more, ONLY allow Teslas to charge until so many are open (let the non-Tesla's already plugged in continue to charge).
The Tesla SCs knows everybody's VIN number so it's very easy to see who has a Tesla and who doesn't. Only some minor details need to be worked our such as a sign "now closed to non-Tesla's". All this will be automatic, of course.
As long as Teslas are served first, there should be no complaints from anybody.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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In the areas in the EU where it was mandated, only a portion of stalls were opened to other brands, yes.
I think that is a stupid idea.
-Crissa
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In the areas in the EU where it was mandated, only a portion of stalls were opened to other brands, yes.
I think that is a stupid idea.
-Crissa
Depend on how they do it. I have seen Tesla SCs, CCS, CHAdeMo & J-1772 in the same lot.
The advantage of being able to use Tesla SCs is they are the ONLY chargers in some very MUCH needed locations. Lake Topaz, NV for an example, on Hwy 395. Also, LoveLock, NV and countless other places.
BTW, they are now installing (looks like construction is almost completed) CCS chargers at the SafeWay in Lovelock. Still will have no J-1772 in LL. That is what I think is stupid. The standard we can all use should be everywhere there is any charge station, if possible. ~7KW is better than 0KW charging.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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This came out during yesterday's Tesla earnings report. The plan is to handle billing through the Tesla app. Users just need to identify the charger number and enter credit card info. There will be adapters in the US for tesla-specific chargers.
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This came out during yesterday's Tesla earnings report. The plan is to handle billing through the Tesla app. Users just need to identify the charger number and enter credit card info. There will be adapters in the US for tesla-specific chargers.
Will there be a way to convert Tesla SC to CCS? Such as charge my Energica on a Tesla SC?
-Don- Reno, NV
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Interesting article from Road & Track about why other EV manufacturers haven't jumped on Tesla's Supercharger network even though it's been "open" since inception: https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a35030461/why-other-car-companies-dont-use-tesla-superchargers/
TL;DR It's all about patents and IP apparently.
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Yes, Don, the plan for the US is to make the adapter manufacturer-independent, so that they cut out the middleman and deal with the consumers directly.
-Crissa
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Well Don I'm sure it will be just like cell phone and cable plans. They give all the deals and perks to the new customers they are trying to lure into a Tesla purchase.
They will get the cheaper rate and preferential treatment in charging order and top notch customer service to make the Leaf and Bolt and Prius crowds happy.
I mean they already sold current Tesla owners a car so that money has already been made.
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I read an article (I don't have the link, sorry) that stated non-Tesla EVs that charge at a slower rate would be charged more. Apparently to encourage average time spent at the superchargers is kept close to a Tesla or other EV that can charge at a faster rate.
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There will also be a surcharge for charging during busy times.
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I read an article (I don't have the link, sorry) that stated non-Tesla EVs that charge at a slower rate would be charged more. Apparently to encourage average time spent at the superchargers is kept close to a Tesla or other EV that can charge at a faster rate.
I rarely see any of the Tesla SCs being used at Lake Topaz, NV. At places like that, they shouldn't care how long it takes. IIRC, they have six Tesla SCs there. Usually none are being used and the most I ever saw there being used was one.
Tesla's have the range to make it from Reno to Bridgeport, so the ONLY chargers they have at Lake Topaz are the ones that are NOT needed. CCS and J-1772 is VERY much needed there, so, of course, they have neither.
If I can charge my Energica there at Lake Topaz, I will not care much about the cost.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I read an article (I don't have the link, sorry) that stated non-Tesla EVs that charge at a slower rate would be charged more. Apparently to encourage average time spent at the superchargers is kept close to a Tesla or other EV that can charge at a faster rate.
California law passed in 2020 states that starting in 2023 all EV charging stations will need to bill by the kWh and have current prices displayed, similar to gas stations. Existing infrastructure that bills by the minute will have 10 years to retroactively change their stations. By 2033 it'll hopefully normalize a little. I mean... it's not ideal but it's better than nothing.
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I read an article (I don't have the link, sorry) that stated non-Tesla EVs that charge at a slower rate would be charged more. Apparently to encourage average time spent at the superchargers is kept close to a Tesla or other EV that can charge at a faster rate.
Yes, as Morgan stated, per-minute charging would be disallowed.
But they can charge surcharges for idle, parking (if other spaces are charged), connection, etc. So they could say, for instance, charge you an extra fee if you're there longer than a half-hour.
-Crissa
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Transport Evolved did a video saying the same thing. If they (non Teslas) charge slower it will be at a higher per kw rate. Also an up charge for peak times.
The bottom line is the parking setup for charging stations is as bad as it can be. One station serving one parking spot.
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But they can charge surcharges for idle, parking (if other spaces are charged), connection, etc. So they could say, for instance, charge you an extra fee if you're there longer than a half-hour.
But they would never get away with that when charging even at a very low charge rate. That is the type of BS the new law is trying to prevent.
I will always have my Tesla to charge to full if at a TSC. That will buy a lot of time if you're late getting back as the charge rate will drop a lot near the end. But won't drop to zero where the charger stops and then after ten minutes we're charged even more to not charge than to charge.
But I would normally stop the charge well before that by getting back first.
-Don- Reno, NV
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But they can charge surcharges for idle, parking (if other spaces are charged), connection, etc. So they could say, for instance, charge you an extra fee if you're there longer than a half-hour.
But they would never get away with that when charging even at a very low charge rate. That is the type of BS the new law is trying to prevent.
Perfect! So if I want to take my time shopping and eating while charging my Energica, while all of those Teslas are in line waiting to charge, all I have to do is reduce my charge rate! /s
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You pretty much nailed it, that is exactly the problem. Even if you don't reduce the charge rate (can you do that on a DC charger anyways? I can't.), charging might still take forever. Just an example:
Tesla Model 3 LR: 75 kWh battery, charges at up to 250 kW (>3C)
Chevy Bolt: 66 kWh battery, charges at up to 55 kW (<1C)
Both cars taper at whatever state of charge, but the Bolt charges very slowly right off the bat.
If they open up the supercharger network, they better build a lot more of them.
Although, with the chargers around here it would be pretty expensive to charge the Bolt. They all charge by the minute and if you don't charge fast, it can get pretty expensive. Maybe it's not such a bad idea to charge by the minute after all.
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You pretty much nailed it, that is exactly the problem. Even if you don't reduce the charge rate (can you do that on a DC charger anyways? I can't.), charging might still
The only EVs I'm aware of that allow you to limit DCFC power are Energicas and the Taycans.
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I can't limit the DCFC power in my Tesla and neither can my GF limit the power in her Chevy Bolt. No clue what other EVs can or can't do.
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If they charge you overtime fees, you won't want to leave your car there.
-Crissa
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If they charge you overtime fees, you won't want to leave your car there.
-Crissa
It's easy to cheat. Leave the vehicle there but unplug it!
IOW, "ICE" the charge spot with an EV. ;D
-Don- Reno, NV
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ICE-ing doesn't work too well when you are on a bike and just ride around the vehicle. ;D
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ICE-ing doesn't work too well when you are on a bike and just ride around the vehicle. ;D
Yeah, I have done such a couple of times. Cisco Grove, CA on weekends is almost always ICED at several of the charge stations.
But many places now have nice high fines to ICE vehicles at charge stations. No doubt we will see more and more of such.
But I wonder if that will apply to an EV that is not plugged in. ;D I assume it will be enforced to any vehicle not charging at a charge station.
-Don- Reno, NV
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IOW, "ICE" the charge spot with an EV. ;D
That's a good way to find your car not there when you come back.
-Crissa