ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => Electric Motorcycle News => Topic started by: enaef on July 10, 2021, 04:01:36 AM
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If I am informed correctly, Farasis is the battery cell supplier for Zero. A year ago Mercedes Benz announced a strategic partnership with Farasis. Daimler had invested 400 million and a production facility would be built in Saarland. There are apparently problems: "Farasis apparently delivered its first cell samples to Daimler in early 2021 - and the horror was great: company officials spoke of "considerable problems" without going into detail." Elsewhere, the term 'catastrophic' is used. It is even said that a dissolution of the partnership is being considered.
Source: https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/tech-zukunft/alternative-antriebe/mercedes-probleme-farasis-batteriezellen-eigene-fertigung-2021/
Hmmm .... - I just hope this is no bad sign for future Zero batteries (although I guess cells for cars are not the same story as those for motorcycles).
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Well, that is not good news. I hope the report is exaggerated. You wouldn't think that Farasis could screw up that badly or that one group of cell deliveries could throw the entire partnership into the trash can. ???
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https://www.electrive.com/2021/02/23/problems-mounting-for-daimler-battery-supplier-farasis/
Does your link add anything from this one? Half a year ago?
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It does not add much to the report of www.electrive.com half a year ago.
(You may look at it by using https://www.deepl.com/translator . Its translations is muuuch better than the google translator).
However - just found this: (further down also translated by DeepL)
https://www.businessinsider.de/wirtschaft/kooperation-geplatzt-chinesischer-zulieferer-farasis-wird-in-deutschland-keine-batteriezellen-mehr-fuer-daimler-produzieren-c/
It was to be a cooperation of great consequence. In 2020, Daimler invested around 400 million euros in the Chinese battery manufacturer Farasis and received a three percent share in the company in return. In the medium term, Farasis was to become "a cornerstone" in cell procurement for Daimler. For the group, this is the most sought-after product, with which they want to electrify the entire model portfolio in Stuttgart.
In the spirit of good cooperation, the Chinese are building a battery factory in Bitterfeld at a cost of around 600 million euros. Actually, the company with the star was to be supplied from there. However, Business Insider has learned from company circles that this will not happen. Bitterfeld will not be supplying Daimler with battery cells in the coming years.
Against this background, it is not surprising that the board of directors in Stuttgart-Untertürkheim has made the fundamental decision to produce battery cells themselves. Business Insider reported exclusively. The board members want to make themselves less dependent on suppliers from China for this strategically important component of the e-cars. The battery itself accounts for about 40 percent of the cost of the electric car - and thus a large part of the value added.
Farasis wants Daimler to supply the parts for the batteries, which the Stuttgart company so urgently needs, from China in the future.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version).
This last news above do not speak of quality problems. May be it is a more strategic decision regarding dependency from China?
There are multiple reports to be found regarding bad quality of the first Farasis-batch.
One of it here:
https://www.bw24.de/stuttgart/daimler-e-auto-elektro-batterie-mercedes-benz-stuttgart-zulieferer-china-farasis-reichweite-strategie-90229944.html
Hard to tell if the sources just copy what others wrote or if they really know.
And hard to tell who 'leaks' information regarding bad quality cells to what purpose exactly. Where they really bad or has Daimler (Mercedes-Benz) gotten cold feet regarding dependency from China?
Also - some sources write, that "Farasis does not yet have a building permit for its planned plant in Bitterfeld".
This source from yesterday
https://www.mz.de/lokal/bitterfeld/wirbel-um-batteriefabrik-medienberichte-schuren-zweifel-an-kooperation-von-farasis-und-daimler-3202261?reduced=true
writes (Picuture Caption): "Farasis has purchased the former production hall of solar cell manufacturer Solibro. Employees are to prepare production there. (Photo: Kehrer)".
Unfortunately I can't read the whole article without paying.
Why does Farasis not get a building permit?
Dependency concerns by german government? Pure speculation on my side ...
The future will tell ...
However: I don't know what the situation is abroad. In Switzerland electric cars have quite a momentum. Last year more electric cars (full and hybrid) were sold than diesel-powered cars. Advertisesment on electric cars are everywhere - VW, Renault, Hyundai, Skoda, Fiat, Opel, smart, BMW, Mini, Mercedes, Audi, Kia, Peugeot, Mazda, Skoda, Porsche, Ford, Nissan, Volvo, Citroen, Jaguar,
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That batch was from a new facility, so unrelated to the batteries in Zeros. Who knows what the production constraints were.
-Crissa
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I would say the quality of Zero and Farasis are on the same level!
Even NastyNils from 1000PS one of the largest motorcycle magazines in Europe has no good opinion about the workmanship of Zero
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibydOxSt9VI
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And he's back again with the Zero hate
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But the quality of Zero is also disastrous, isn't it?! :-\
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My post was NOT about the quality of the Farasis Batteries in use in Zero Motorcycles at the moment.
I merely was asking, if the news could / would influence the further development of Zero's batteries.
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But the quality of Zero is also disastrous, isn't it?! :-\
There's no evidence of such, no.
-Crissa
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But the quality of Zero is also disastrous, isn't it?! :-\
There's no evidence of such, no.
-Crissa
+1. Other than the poorly manufactured and/or designed (for the purpose that it is being used for) OBC, I have no issues with the build quality of my 2018 Zero. :)
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Mine's mostly ok. Discs were knackered after 1000 miles and the plastics are of dubious quality mind. Also there's actual rust on several bits that shouldn't have rust (rear caliper parts, and there's an orange hole in the swingarm for bobbins...). I've tried to get XCP rust blocker on everything metal and ACF50 everywhere else.
Cas :)
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But the quality of Zero is also disastrous, isn't it?! :-\
There's no evidence of such, no.
-Crissa
Wut. No evidence as such? Are not SR/S and SR/F plagued with software issues in relation to % charge remaining and their firmware? This forum alone has recent posts about build quality not living up to expectation and issues not being resolves.
Is that not evidence?
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Wut. No evidence as such? Are not SR/S and SR/F plagued with software issues in relation to % charge remaining and their firmware?
No. It didn't affect everyone. And one mistake isn't 'disastrous quality'. It's a problem, to be sure, but it's not what centra is talking about.
-Crissa
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Alone the problem with the micro switch of the cruise control is a good statement. Not even a qualitative switch in such an important sysrtem can Zero mount ;D
Will Zero Corona even survive?!
The sales figures Zero/Energica are with us 1/7
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The sales figures Zero/Energica are with us 1/7
I'm surprised you sell any Zeros, considering that you constantly participate in libel against the company.
-Crissa
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Centra12
Is there some "disaster" associated with the cruise control switch that I am unaware of? I have only used it a few hundred times so maybe too early to tell but the only thing I notice it doing is engaging the cruise control. Can pushing it cause bodily injury or a huge repair bill? I'll report back if my SR/S has any disasters but I haven't noticed any so far. ;)
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He must be referring to the switch recall, where some owners found the switch stopped working, and prevented the front brake from disengaging cruise control/engaging brake regen. If I recall, Zero found out the part was defective.
Hardly a disaster. Brakes still worked, and the rear brake disengages cruise control still.
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At least one who knows a little about the subject and does not argue completely past it.
Nevertheless, some customers reported a short shock stiffness because the motorcycle did not decelerate!
But there were also some customers who had a shock after a fire. Belongs as already to the good tone of Zero ;)
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I've renamed this thread to "Farasis controversy". It doesn't make sense to me but if people find it useful to discuss then c'est la vie.
If you're just here for F.U.D. then this topic is getting locked and taken off the board, fast.
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Is this the argument of an administrator who drives Zero himself and is no longer neutral
What do you cost so a month for Zero ?! :o
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I started this thread asking for evaluation/opinion regarding news about Farasis.
In my opinion centra12 has kidnapped the thread and made it into sort of a Zero vilification.
As that certainly was not intended by me, Shadow may lock the thread - I would not oppose it ...
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I started this thread asking for evaluation/opinion regarding news about Farasis.
In my opinion centra12 has kidnapped the thread and made it into sort of a Zero vilification.
As that certainly was not intended by me, Shadow may lock the thread - I would not oppose it ...
I second this.
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Ignore List: https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?action=profile;area=lists;sa=ignore;u=8795
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I also support this proposal before the quality of Fararis becomes even more public and further diminishes the sales of Zero! :-X
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Geschlossen.