ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: PWM on June 30, 2021, 12:42:48 PM
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It's lighter...cheaper to manufacture...is the wet rotor oil cooling retained?
https://youtu.be/vPS2sFc-5rw (https://youtu.be/vPS2sFc-5rw)
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Also, is this something that comes out with next year's 2023 model or is this for the 2022's now being delivered?
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Also, is this something that comes out with next year's 2023 model or is this for the 2022's now being delivered?
This article and press release says the new motor will be on the 2022 models: https://electricmotorcycles.news/emce-the-new-electric-motor-of-energica-motor-company/
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Interesting. I have a 2022 Ribelle that I am about to take delivery of, I wonder if they snuck this new tech in.
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Motor AND Inverter are updated.
Hmmm, sounds like they are sourcing locally for the traction drive and no-longer using Cascadia Rinehart?
Good to see continued developments from Energica - will be very interested to see a review on this new bike variant.
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Looks like this will be introduced later in the year, so the 2022's rolling out now will still have the prior tech in them.
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Looks great, and lighter too!
I wonder what efficiency is like compared to the previous (existing) motor. Anyone care to guess?
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Looks like a 5-10% range increase. Dope!
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Right when I was about to put down a deposit EsseEsse, I reckon I'll hold off for a bit now. Now I'm leaning Ribelle RS, now the wait begins, be nice to be riding by late fall, fingers crossed.
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Yeah Ireek, that was a close one.
Even with covid limits and shortages I thought the fact that there was such a shortage of Energicas meant there was something better on the horizon.
Late fall might be pushing it but we'll see.
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"The new Powertrain will in fact be used exclusively on the entire Energica range."
Commercial only not MotoE is the take-away, no?
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Are you saying your theory is that the Moto-E bikes, supplied exclusively by Energica, won't have the Energica-exclusive motor and inverter?
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It's lighter...cheaper to manufacture...is the wet rotor oil cooling retained?
Another article with a pic of the oilsystem.
https://www.rideapart.com/news/517130/energica-mavel-emce-electric-motor/
Gee I didn't know that Energica's needed more power :D
HUGE difference (improvement) in service interval.
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Are you saying your theory is that the Moto-E bikes, supplied exclusively by Energica, won't have the Energica-exclusive motor and inverter?
No, I'm saying there's no mention of Moto-E being a test-bed prior to a commercial release - seems odd, that's all.
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It almost certainly was, though - that's exactly where the 21kWH battery came from.
As for myself... I'd be even happier if they made a motor that weighed half as much and only made half the power. Really the power figures are pointless, what's still stopping me considering Energica is weight, even with a 10kg saving.
Cas :)
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Actually turns out Energica sums up everything on their page :)
https://www.energicamotor.com/energica-ego-electric-motorcycle/#emce (https://www.energicamotor.com/energica-ego-electric-motorcycle/#emce)
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The guys from Moto.IT have done a test ride video (https://youtu.be/zFpLW87KBGU) on YT.
Unfortunately, all in Italian which I do not speak - also Italian subtitles. If anyone knows how to enable English or German subs, please let me know - the guy talks a lot, and I was hoping for some more insights.
But interestingly, there are quite some shots (like 5:12) where you can hear the new drivetrain accelerating.
I‘m not 100% sure with the old engine, but with the new one you can see in pictures that there is an intermediate shaft in the gear box. Having that in mind, I think I can hear a subtle difference when comparing the EMCE-equipped Ribelle in the video compared with my Ribelle build September 2020. However, overall it is more or less the same sound. Not the huge difference I was hoping for.
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So I clicked the CC and it came up in Italian. Then click the "gear" icon to bring up settings.
Click "Subtitles/CC" Then select auto translate and pick any language you'd like.
I tried Danish to see if I had better luck but then I went ahead and chose English. :)
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Thanks man! Turned out the subs can’t be changed in the iPad YT app. On a standard browser it is just as you described…
So, if I interprete the guy correct, he speaks from a big leap and also indicates a more neutral behavior in the twisties. We I would like that!
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iPad can run YouTube's desktop website better than the app runs.
-Crissa
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I sent the link to my Italian coworker (he sits next to me) and he translated the good parts.
Basically he goes through all the specs.. all the stuff on website.. but he said the weight difference is very noticeable, how it handles, etc. This mirrors what people have been saying on Facebook. He said "the original Energicas felt clunky and hard to manage like superbikes from the 90's, and this one feels like a modern super-naked."
He also said the price is €28,000.. so we'll see how much they cost in the US.
I'm excited ;D
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Was checking the price for a new SS9 at Energica compared to a used model (2020 with small battery)…
Noticed that, unless it’s an error on the configurator, you might get the old motor if you only spec the small battery. It’s not only the battery they changes look when you switch from 13 to 21 kWh battery but also motor.
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Or literally no one has ordered the 13.4 since the announcement of the 21.5s and HQ hasn't built any 13.4s since.
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Looks like this will be introduced later in the year, so the 2022's rolling out now will still have the prior tech in them.
Looks like new models are already being delivered with the new motor and inverter.
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Just speculating that the next logical advancement is in rear suspension given new motor layout opens up opportunity to centralize the strut location.
Still will want to see motor torque curve comparative to old and duty-time data.
For racing. The one element that settles uneasy is the radiator size - switch-mode electronics are efficient for sure but even at that, the heat losses are significant, so adding motor heat (lower efficiency than electronics) to what is perceived to be the same sized radiator is the one thing giving me pause.
For consumer market. New motor development is necessary for all the attributes as marketed. This indeed is exciting for the consumer and moto-EV in general. Of note, duty-time for consumer level riding, even in sport mode, does not come close to full-on racing and Energica realizes yesterday's marketing model was one thing - the next chapter necessitates optimization for the class of riding that brings in the most revenue.
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In their site under build your bike, it looks like without upgrades to the suspension or accessories the price is $25k for the RS and I guess that's the new motor.
Full all red Ohlins and OZ specs with a huge tank bag and carbon nik naks got me to $32k.
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Both RS and non-RS models get the new motor and inverter.
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Both RS and non-RS models get the new motor and inverter.
I would trust the older stuff more as it has all passed the test of time on the road.
And I certainly don't care about better motor performance. I will never be WOT with what I have as it is.
I find it's rather rare for new designs with any make to not have bugs.
And often by the time they work out the bugs, they discontinue it and start with something new.
-Don- Reno, NV
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What I was wondering was have they updated the site to include the new motor setup for the bike's price?
My quote was for the Ego RS by the way.
Also any idea if the charge rate will increase with the CCS stations working with the new liquid cooling system?
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What I was wondering was have they updated the site to include the new motor setup for the bike's price?
My quote was for the Ego RS by the way.
Also any idea if the charge rate will increase with the CCS stations working with the new liquid cooling system?
Aren't they only cooling the motor and electronics? Are you thinking they are going to also cool the battery?
Seems they are going the opposite direction there since my SS9- has better battery cooling than the SS9+.
-Don- Reno, NV
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What I was wondering was have they updated the site to include the new motor setup for the bike's price?
My quote was for the Ego RS by the way.
When you switch from small to new battery in the configurator it’s now only the battery that changes look.
.Or literally no one has ordered the 13.4 since the announcement of the 21.5s and HQ hasn't built any 13.4s since.
Mobile.de has a few 2020 Energicas with the small battery.
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Don, there isn't any mention of battery cooling so far but with a more efficient motor at higher speeds, in theory at least, you could pull into the station with a lower battery temp and either start at a higher charge rate or go longer before there is a thermal cut back.
MrMogensen, I seem to remember the old (well 2021) Ego+ bikes being a base price of about $23k.
I can't remember if the RS was always at $25k base or if that price reflects an increased price with the new motor setup.
Maybe there won't be an increase in price with the new motor but you'd think they would want to cover some of the R&D costs.
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The price has been unchanged for the new Energicas with the new motor. Seems like some dealers are already getting them.
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Hopefully most of those who put in an order long time ago gets the EMCE...
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The price has been unchanged for the new Energicas with the new motor. Seems like some dealers are already getting them.
And all sold before they get there, as with here with all the Energicas? (https://www.calmoto.com/bmw-motorcycles-for-sale-san-jose-san-francisco-ca--xAllInventory?make=bmw#page=xAllInventory&vt=motorcycle%20%2F%20scooter&make=energica%20motor%20company%20inc)
-Don- Reno, NV
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Hopefully most of those who put in an order long time ago gets the EMCE...
Ordered my 2022 Ribelle on March 29th, received July 3rd - has the old motor/inverter. I asked Energica about it right when the new motor was announced and they told me that the 2022 models that were already in production prior to the announcement would be unchanged and future 2022 models would be the new tech. They also added that they weren't sure what the price increase would be but conceded that there would be an increase (maybe they're eating it, after all). In any event, they suggested that if I decided to trade it in later for the newer version, they'd take care of me. No details were provided, but I presume some customer loyalty bonus on trade-in would be on the table.
Either way, I wasn't expecting the new tech and I'm more than happy with the version I have. I'll take their advice and ride the heck out of it and see where things are next year to decide if it's worth trading in. First world problems I guess.
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I'm in the same position. The 21kw battery was too good for me not to pick one up even though I had just bought my 13kw bike the year prior. As much as I like the lowered scheduled maintenance of the new motor, the existing motor's maintenance hasn't been an issue. I'll likely pass on the new motor this time around. Of course, I'll give every new rider a big thumbs up and a grin if they have one of the new motors but since my Ribelle does all I need it to do and then some, I'll just ride the heck out of it.
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If you just got the "old" motor and love it... do NOT try the new one.
Just like if you bought a Model 3 Dual Motor Long Range do NOT try a Performance :)
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If you just got the "old" motor and love it... do NOT try the new one.
Just like if you bought a Model 3 Dual Motor Long Range do NOT try a Performance :)
I test drove the Performance model before I bought my "Model 3 Dual Motor Long Range". I thought it was so ridiculous I didn't even want it. Why would I want my tires to melt in 50 yards?
-Don- Reno, NV
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If you just got the "old" motor and love it... do NOT try the new one.
Just like if you bought a Model 3 Dual Motor Long Range do NOT try a Performance :)
LOL I can appreciate that. I test drove the Model 3 LR and was blown away but still ordered the Performance version. Glad I did ;)
On 2 wheels though, I'm not so sure I'll worry about lack of performance. I already keep the Ribelle on Urban having only ventured into Sport mode once...
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According to Energica, there are efficiency gains to be had with the new motor, especially at freeway speeds. That, along with a significantly increased maintenance interval, makes it worth it.
But yeah I agree it's not a massive change from the old motor. Just slightly better at everything it seems like.
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According to Energica, there are efficiency gains to be had with the new motor, especially at freeway speeds. That, along with a significantly increased maintenance interval, makes it worth it.
But yeah I agree it's not a massive change from the old motor. Just slightly better at everything it seems like.
Umm, more efficient at highway speeds which is still not peak rpm and this is because less magnetic counter-forces are at play w/ a "hybrid" motor design than a pure PM design...at peak sustained rpm not so efficient due to the induction component which is proportional to load.
More efficient also because of weight savings and lower rotor inertia (lighter rotor). 1st gen motor, should in theory however be motor efficient at regenerating energy back to the pack.
Easy to quantify by measuring stopping distance on full regen setting with all other conditions being common.
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That, along with a significantly increased maintenance interval, makes it worth it.
I have wondered if that is just marketing BS. Some people complain about the maintanace required on the Energicas compared to other electric motorcycles (such as Zeros).
I recall in 1984 many motorcyclists were complaining that the maintenance intervals were too short on large touring bikes and the bikes that had the shorter ones mentioned in their manuals were not selling as well.
I think it was 1985 that the Honda GoldWing changed to hydraulic valves, which I thought was a great idea. But when people stopped looking at the maintenance intervals so much, many years later, I hear the GW went back to shims and buckets.
So Yamaha, changed nothing other than the maintenance interval times in the owner's manuals. My 1984 Venture says change the engine oil every 1.5 years or 10,000 miles. It wasn't the bike or oil that changed, just the recommendations. I read about the BS games that were being played in a motorcycle magazine back then.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Talk about minimal ICE motorcycle maintenance, my friend rode his 1985 Honda 700 Nighthawk to Alice's Restaurant yesterday. It has self-adjusting valves, shaft drive and a reliable air-cooled alternator. I used to own one of those bikes, too. You didn't have to do much more to keep it running than you do with a Zero. But now low maintenance and ownership costs don't seem to be very high on the priority list when most people are buying a new motorcycle. When they start to be trouble, you sell them to someone else and go out and buy something new. :)
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Talk about minimal ICE motorcycle maintenance, my friend rode his 1985 Honda 700 Nighthawk to Alice's Restaurant yesterday. It has self-adjusting valves, shaft drive and a reliable air-cooled alternator. I used to own one of those bikes, too. You didn't have to do much more to keep it running than you do with a Zero. But now low maintenance and ownership costs don't seem to be very high on the priority list when most people are buying a new motorcycle. When they start to be trouble, you sell them to someone else and go out and buy something new. :)
I think they probably found their cycle service shops were not getting enough work so they slowly changed back to bikes that required a bit more maintenance.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Talk about minimal ICE motorcycle maintenance, my friend rode his 1985 Honda 700 Nighthawk to Alice's Restaurant yesterday. It has self-adjusting valves, shaft drive and a reliable air-cooled alternator. I used to own one of those bikes, too. You didn't have to do much more to keep it running than you do with a Zero. But now low maintenance and ownership costs don't seem to be very high on the priority list when most people are buying a new motorcycle. When they start to be trouble, you sell them to someone else and go out and buy something new. :)
I think they probably found their cycle service shops were not getting enough work so they slowly changed back to bikes that required a bit more maintenance.
-Don- Reno, NV
I have had the same thought. And that thinking goes along with Zero wanting their bikes to be serviced and the motor "commissioned" every 8K miles. Since dealers are said the make their most money servicing and repairing motorcycles, rather than the one-time commission that they get selling them, you would think that having a vehicle that requires minimal servicing would be a negative for any dealer that picks up Zeros to sell.
When Calmoto was located in Mt. View, I was told by the sales manager that Zero stopped by and wanted to sign them up as a franchised dealer. But the shop owner didn't want to have to fool with making repairs on electric motorcycles for which their technicians had no experience or knowledge. He wanted Zero to perform the servicing, but of course that wasn't going to happen.
Then Energica visited them and told the shop that they would be able to service and repair the bikes at their facility located in Redwood City just a few miles north of Mountain View. That cinched the deal. Now that they are located in Livermore about 45 minutes away from their old location I wonder what they do for servicing now? Probably, at least one of their service technicians have received training from Energica and now know how to repair and service Energica motorcycles.
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Then Energica visited them and told the shop that they would be able to service and repair the bikes at their facility located in Redwood City just a few miles north of Mountain View. That cinched the deal. Now that they are located in Livermore about 45 minutes away from their old location I wonder what they do for servicing now? Probably, at least one of their service technicians have received training from Energica and now know how to repair and service Energica motorcycles.
The Energica repair shop is now in South San Francisco, not far from where I used to live.
Address (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1AWUC_enUS815US820&sxsrf=ALeKk01Xz8ny3-_yarcNEpz09BvUpguEnw:1626128366554&q=energica+dealer+and+service+centre+south+san+francisco+address&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAD3MMQ6DMAwF0AmJhQ7dkTyzRHRCDL2L5fyEqMiR7MDAcXrSLhXbm17_eA4hh3lOV9psSa9p_Mga9ircStUbK8docP92bygsF2GK4B1GrJEcdhYBCbQZyOvRNnJWSsYqxaXSP_gBzex-UHEAAAA&ludocid=3506744795547381371&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjekIadyN7xAhXzNX0KHRw0CmMQ6BMwBXoECBMQBw): 170 S Spruce Ave Unit D, South San Francisco, CA 94080.
I assume they pick up the bikes in a van from Livermore and take them to that SSF shop. That's how they picked up my bike in Auburn, CA a couple of years ago.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Then Energica visited them and told the shop that they would be able to service and repair the bikes at their facility located in Redwood City just a few miles north of Mountain View. That cinched the deal. Now that they are located in Livermore about 45 minutes away from their old location I wonder what they do for servicing now? Probably, at least one of their service technicians have received training from Energica and now know how to repair and service Energica motorcycles.
The Energica repair shop is now in South San Francisco, not far from where I used to live.
Address (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1AWUC_enUS815US820&sxsrf=ALeKk01Xz8ny3-_yarcNEpz09BvUpguEnw:1626128366554&q=energica+dealer+and+service+centre+south+san+francisco+address&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAD3MMQ6DMAwF0AmJhQ7dkTyzRHRCDL2L5fyEqMiR7MDAcXrSLhXbm17_eA4hh3lOV9psSa9p_Mga9ircStUbK8docP92bygsF2GK4B1GrJEcdhYBCbQZyOvRNnJWSsYqxaXSP_gBzex-UHEAAAA&ludocid=3506744795547381371&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjekIadyN7xAhXzNX0KHRw0CmMQ6BMwBXoECBMQBw): 170 S Spruce Ave Unit D, South San Francisco, CA 94080.
I assume they pick up the bikes in a van from Livermore and take them to that SSF shop. That's how they picked up my bike in Auburn, CA a couple of years ago.
-Don- Reno, NV
That is interesting, only about 10 miles from where I live. I will have to stop by one of these days and see what it going on. If Energica is still picking up bikes and servicing them at their company facility, that would be a considerable advantage for owners of the brand.
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That is interesting, only about 10 miles from where I live. I will have to stop by one of these days and see what it going on. If Energica is still picking up bikes and servicing them at their company facility, that would be a considerable advantage for owners of the brand.
IMO, their service is not possible to beat.
BTW, the Energica Van even took the trip with that race from Anaheim to Reno just in case anybody had any problems. AFAIK, nobody did.
BTW, here is the Energica Map. (https://www.energicamotorusa.com/usa-operations/)
-Don- Reno, NV
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CalMoto in Livermore will be your go to location for service of Energica motorcycles. They can manage service & repair of all models.
I believe they still offer a pickup and drop off service at their old Mountain View location, worth asking them about.
The Energica location in South San Francisco receives and prepares new bikes before they are transported to dealers or final customers. It is not open for drop in service work.
Occasionally when new issues with bikes pop up or deep dive diagnostic work is needed bikes are transported from dealerships to the Energica offices.
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CalMoto in Livermore will be your go to location for service of Energica motorcycles. They can manage service & repair of all models.
I believe they still offer a pickup and drop off service at their old Mountain View location, worth asking them about.
The Energica location in South San Francisco receives and prepares new bikes before they are transported to dealers or final customers. It is not open for drop in service work.
Occasionally when new issues with bikes pop up or deep dive diagnostic work is needed bikes are transported from dealerships to the Energica offices.
Unfortunately, I am informed that Calmoto no longer picks up and drops off bikes for servicing at their old Mountain View facility. I gather that they didn't have enough takers to make that program work out for them. :(
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Unfortunately, I am informed that Calmoto no longer picks up and drops off bikes for servicing at their old Mountain View facility. I gather that they didn't have enough takers to make that program work out for them. :(
I assumed they sold that building or stopped renting it or whatever. What is now there at the old BMW shop in MV?
BTW, I just came here a few hours ago on my Energica. That free CCS charge station at the Summit Rest stop sure is nice. Nice cool place to stop and the easiest fast charge station I ever used Just plug in, select CCS (also has CHAdeMO) works with no hassles at all. And on the first try! But that is for west bound. I hope they fix the east bound by the time I head back to Reno in a few days.
And it's location is right in the middle of my ride! After I charge there, it's mostly downhill. I arrived here with 47% SOC (small battery).
But I charged to full and the battery indicator went yellow. It stayed yellow all the way to Auburn, with regen totally OFF and coasting much of the way.
But it was 101F as I got closer to Auburn.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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[/quote]I assumed they sold that building or stopped renting it or whatever. What is now there at the old BMW shop in MV?
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I haven't been down there since the shop closed. However, the last I heard, Mike (the owner of Calmoto) had leased the building in Mountain View, so it is possible that the new business didn't appreciate unwashed BMW motorcycle owners visiting the site to drop off or pick up serviced bikes. Writing a lease and getting the new business to agree to it, which would allow motorcycle owners to enter the site a couple of days a week, might have been an issue to renting the site. However, I think it is more likely that the remote pickup plan turned out to be just more of a hassle than it was worth.