ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: scottwstevenson on June 26, 2021, 08:47:00 PM
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Sorry if this has been addressed before, hidden in a related thread. (Search didn't quite give me the info. I was looking for.)
I've got a 2020 DSR and I'm working with some EVTricity chargers that in total allow me to approach 1C charging if I use two Level 2 (J1772) stations simultaneously:
1.) 1 x 3.3kW EVTricity charger installed at the controller with a second connection running to the OEM charger. This will give me about 5kW from the Level 2's I've tried. (I've got this charger mounted in the "tank" storage area, safe from the weather, but also leaving me room to store things in there, too but without a bottomless pit where stuff get's lost in the bottom of the storage area. Very handy, esp. b/c I replaced the OEM key lock with a combo lock, so I can access without my key, i.e. if I need to get in there at a stop on the road and want to leave the key in the bike.
2.) 6.6 kW Evtricity charger I have in a hardcase (mounted once but didn't like and have a mounting solution to the dropbars I'll post up when finished if interested - not terribly aerodynamic however.. LOL). This will get me another 6+kW wired into the accessory (anderson) port.
What I'd like to do is make use of Tesla destination chargers as an option - if these are really an option that I could access with some reliability and ease (not having to arrange use with a hotel manager, etc. in an inconvenient way), so that I could just pull from a *single* Tesla destination charger (not supercharger of course) EVSE using this handy dandy device (and bypass the J1772 connection):
http://www.umc-j1772.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=17&product_id=145
(I'd use 4 cables to connect to my EV Tricity chargers and OEM charger, bypassing a J1772 connection. I think that the above product will allow me to pull upwards of 10kW, assuming I can get 10-12A through each outlet at 220V coming from the Tesla EVSE. Otherwise I might ask the folks at TeslaTap if they could construct a Tesla -> dual J1772 adaptor for me.)
I'm not a Tesla owner and would be going by the Chargepoint and google maps to find the Tesla destination stations, unless there's another mapping solution?...
I know some folks use the Teslatap (or Lectron) Tesla -> J1772 adapters and make use of Tesla destination charging stations a good bit but this could be because they've scouted out stations they can rely upon, so I'm wondering:
If doing "long distance" traveling (various destinations and areas in the US) where at least 1-2 charge stops / trip would be needed, am I likely to be able to make good use of the Tesla destination stations on the fly, not being a tesla customer owner, to reduce charge time and significantly broaden my charge stop options, given how relatively ubiquitous Tesla stations are generally?... Or I am p*$$ing in the wind thinking I'm going to be able to roll up as a non-hotel guest / non-Tesla owner and charge at a Tesla destination charger. (Naturally, I'd make a purchase - lunch or at least some drinks / snacks - at the business associated with the charging station, as a offering of thanks.)
I'm also presuming that the these Tesla level 2 stations generally charge at 10kW or 16kW (just what I've read) so a single Tesla EVSE would be to my advantage to make use of both the Evtricity chargers I have. (I'm thinking that rolling into a Tesla station on an EV motorcycle and taking up two EVSE's with a non-Tesla vehicle might not make a Tesla owner particularly happy, which I can understand! LOL)
Thanks for any insights!
-Scott
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Because you're tapping into their 'proprietary' network you're not guaranteed success in charging. There are at least 4 generations of Destination stations. The gen 1 stainless steel boxes almost always work, but they're rare. Gen 2 also work 99% of the time. Gen 3 and 4 tend to have around 50% success rate, meaning they may not ever enable or they may stop a few seconds or minutes into the session. The stations also vary wildly in terms of output, from 3kW-18kW. I check on stations using Tesla's map to see what they're listed as, but it's not reliable. https://www.tesla.com/findus
For example, there's a winery near me listed on that map that shows the stations output 10kW but I've never seen more than 4 out of them. I've tested with a Zero, an Energica, and an actual Tesla.
Also, at least here on the West Coast, Destination station owners *tend* not to mind us motorcyclists using their stations, but it's not a guarantee. I'm told on the East Coast that generally station owners expect you to pay a fee or, in the case of hotels, may not let you use unless you're an actual guest.
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MVetter,
Thank you for that.
Sounds too me from what you're saying that grabbing a 40A Teslatap (or similar) is a more reasonable solution. Don't expect much from Tesla Destination chargers, esp. in terms of output, but it's a nice plan B.
The official map shows more than Chargepoint or googlemaps, at least in my area (FL). A couple are near me so I might swing by today and get the lay of the land.
Do know if there an interface (board/chip) would be needed to port two J1772 connectors from a Tesla-> J1772 adapter?... If not, the most compact solution (for my situation) I think would be to simply splice another J1772 to an existing adapter and then be able (Tesla EVSE willing) to pull more than 6kW into my bike.
(Thanks again!)
-Scot
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I don't know how the EVTricity units were routed to the J1772 inlets, but I'd be looking into how to make your own Y adapters. When I ran 4 digiNow units on my SR to Tesla stations that's exactly how I did it. Just split the connection 4 ways. Wasn't pretty but I loved pulling 13.2kW.
https://i.imgur.com/cSiH9sS.jpg
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Nice!!!
So you just spliced the Tesla adapter four ways with no intermediate interface, it sounds like and routed through the Diginow charge system.
My current set up is like this, if I'd want to charge near 12kW
J1772 #1 --> A) C19 into EVtricity Charger --> Battery terminals (3.3+kW) & B) C13 into Bike's OEM Charger (1+kW)
J1772 #2 --> 2 x 3.3 EVTricity Charger --> Accessory (Anderson) charging port:
Sounds like from your experience I could take a Tesla tap, and splice in another J1772 Connector:
SINGLE Tesla EVSE --> Tesla Adapter with extra J1772 male spliced in --> #1 J1772 & #2 J1772 per the above (and allow the chargers to pull current from what the EVSE can provide without any intermediate circuitry needed between the EVSE and the J1772's).
:)
-S
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Yeah once you complete the handshake the station just lets the juice flow, and if the juice is flowing it'll power up your chargers and feed the bike.
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Because you're tapping into their 'proprietary' network you're not guaranteed success in charging. There are at least 4 generations of Destination stations. The gen 1 stainless steel boxes almost always work, but they're rare. Gen 2 also work 99% of the time. Gen 3 and 4 tend to have around 50% success rate, meaning they may not ever enable or they may stop a few seconds or minutes into the session. The stations also vary wildly in terms of output, from 3kW-18kW. I check on stations using Tesla's map to see what they're listed as, but it's not reliable. https://www.tesla.com/findus (https://www.tesla.com/findus)
For example, there's a winery near me listed on that map that shows the stations output 10kW but I've never seen more than 4 out of them. I've tested with a Zero, an Energica, and an actual Tesla.
Also, at least here on the West Coast, Destination station owners *tend* not to mind us motorcyclists using their stations, but it's not a guarantee. I'm told on the East Coast that generally station owners expect you to pay an fee or, in the case of hotels, may not let you use unless you're an actual guest.
What I have noticed is the newer Tesla "Wall Connectors" always work with a Tesla Tap, such as the two I own at two different locations. But I often have to wait a full minute or longer to get it to activate, not the 30 seconds Tesla-Tap claims. Best to wait 1.5 minutes, if you don't want to waste even more time. And if it is tried before that full 1.5 minutes and doesn't work, the Tesla-Tap has to have the power removed and a new start with a new 1.5 minutes (or longer) wait.
I do have an issue when I use my Elcons with the 16KW Tesla Destination stations. They shut off on me in about five minutes. Do you have any idea what causes this to happen?
You can see my check-ins here (https://www.plugshare.com/location/146827) and here. (https://www.plugshare.com/location/113009)
I do NOT have this issue using the same Tesla-Tap and same Tesla Destination Station with my Energica, which is a much more standard set-up.
And this item (http://www.umc-j1772.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=17&product_id=125) does NOT help with this problem.
While I assume there is nothing I can do to fix this issue, do you know what causes the five minute time-out when I use my Elcons on the 16 KW stations?
BTW, there is an exception and I have no idea why. When I use the 16 KW Tesla Destination station located here (https://www.plugshare.com/location/71909), it works fine on my SR with the same two Elcons and doesn't time out.
Do you have any idea what the cause could be?
-Don- Reno, NV
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Don,
I think MVetter may have addressed this variation Tesla charger performance in his first post:
"There are at least 4 generations of Destination stations. The gen 1 stainless steel boxes almost always work, but they're rare. Gen 2 also work 99% of the time. Gen 3 and 4 tend to have around 50% success rate, meaning they may not ever enable or they may stop a few seconds or minutes into the session."
Perhaps you can track your experiences back to whichever generation Tesla station you're using?... (I have no idea how ID a Tesla station wrt generation, though...)
-S
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Don,
I think MVetter may have addressed this variation Tesla charger performance in his first post:
"There are at least 4 generations of Destination stations. The gen 1 stainless steel boxes almost always work, but they're rare. Gen 2 also work 99% of the time. Gen 3 and 4 tend to have around 50% success rate, meaning they may not ever enable or they may stop a few seconds or minutes into the session."
Perhaps you can track your experiences back to whichever generation Tesla station you're using?... (I have no idea how ID a Tesla station wrt generation, though...)
-S
I saw that post before I posted my message. That only explains it happens, but not why it happens. What I want to know is what is the cause. What is the Tesla Destination station NOT seeing that it wants to see? Technically, what causes the shut down. IOW, could it be something like no pilot signal being detected and then shuts down? Could it be because the 6KW load is lower than a 16KW station expects to see? What does the Tesla Destination stations want to detect to NOT shut down in five minutes? I mean besides an actual Tesla. What does the Tesla car provide that the Tesla-Tap and load doesn't?
-Don- Reno, NV
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I saw that post before I posted my message. That only explains it happens, but not why it happens. What I want to know is what is the cause. What is the Tesla Destination station NOT seeing that it wants to see? Technically, what causes the shut down. IOW, could it be something like no pilot signal being detected and then shuts down? Could it be because the 6KW load is lower than a 16KW station expects to see? What does the Tesla Destination stations want to detect to NOT shut down in five minutes? I mean besides an actual Tesla. What does the Tesla car provide that the Tesla-Tap and load doesn't?
-Don- Reno, NV
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Don,
Absolutely - I follow you as to figuring out the why, but was simply suggesting that if we found that the issue was matter of station generation, we could then discriminate from differences in technology between the different generation chargers why, for example, a Gen 1 or 2 works for you, whereas a Gen 3 does not (for a Zero)
All of those ideas make sense, for sure. Perhaps a Tesla drops to below 6kW when it's nearly at full capacity, as you suggest, and the newer Gen stations detect that and shut off as a secondary safeguard to overcharging, whereas the earlier generation stations relied upon the vehicle more so to monitor it's own state of charge.
Differences in pilot signal awareness x generation also makes sense. (Differences in patterns of charging among bike brands that are detected could also be at work as you note! LOL)
Then, before even heading to a destination charger, knowing the generation of the station could be handy, as well as help figure out how to coax the EVSE into continue charging. (But what a PITA it might be(?) to have to have different charging strategies depending on the generation of Tesla destination charger you happen upon... LOL)
Totally with you though! Was thinking first isolate the problem (if a generational one) and then look to generational differences to elucidate the mechanisms of the issue. :)
-S
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Even if it drops out in five minutes. it can still be used, just make sure to come back every five minutes and disconnect the Tesla Tap for 90 seconds each time. It is a time consuming hassle, but it is still helpful with my Zero DS charging at 6.3 KW or my SR charging at around 8KW to help to get to the next place I can find a J-plug.
At five minutes each time at 8 KW, I can still get quite a bit of charging done. But it sure would be better if I didn't have to come back every five minutes.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Even if it drops out in five minutes. it can still be used, just make sure to come back every five minutes and disconnect the Tesla Tap for 90 seconds each time. It is a time consuming hassle, but it is still helpful with my Zero DS charging at 6.3 KW or my SR charging at around 8KW to help to get to the next place I can find a J-plug.
At five minutes each time at 8 KW, I can still get quite a bit of charging done. But it sure would be better if I didn't have to come back every five minutes.
-Don- Reno, NV
Makes sense! The 8kW at 5 min on / 90s off makes it more like 5-6kW, which isn't bad.
Dave over at Teslatap is putting together a Tesla --> 2 x J1772 port Zero bike buddy box for me (with an Amp display so I can figure out what's goin on if I'm having problems). I'll give it a go when he gets it to me and report back.
-Scott
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Makes sense! The 8kW at 5 min on / 90s off makes it more like 5-6kW, which isn't bad.
Dave over at Teslatap is putting together a Tesla --> 2 x J1772 port Zero bike buddy box for me (with an Amp display so I can figure out what's goin on if I'm having problems). I'll give it a go when he gets it to me and report back.
-Scott
I plan on going to USA Parkway tomorrow (https://www.plugshare.com/location/146827) to do some experimenting on my Zero DS. The Tesla Destination stations there could be shutting off because of the slight imbalance common in perhaps most Zeros. IOW, a slight ground fault. I am going to bring modified adapters so no part of my OBC or Elcon chargers have a path the ground and then see if they still shut down in five to ten minutes.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I saw your post, Don! Sounds like you think it may be a matter of the Elcons you're using...
Dave at Tesla tap was exceedingly accommodating when I called to find a solution for my charging issue. He might be able to help you try to troubleshoot as well…
I'm using EVTricity Chargers, so we'll see how they do!
-S
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I saw your post, Don! Sounds like you think it may be a matter of the Elcons you're using...
Dave at Tesla tap was exceedingly accommodating when I called to find a solution for my charging issue. He might be able to help you try to troubleshoot as well…
I'm using EVTricity Chargers, so we'll see how they do!
-S
I am fairly sure I have my issue figured out and I know how to prove it and take care of it.
It wasn't what I expected, but the evidence clearly shows it is the electrical noise on the AC plugs of the Elcons. Something I didn't even think about until I did my experiments. Ground fault issues are ruled out, which was what I was expecting at first.
I will later post another message soon about trying to charge Zeros on hot days (100F here in Reno today). I am still not home, but only ten miles away and still cannot charge because of the heat.
-Don- (Tamarack Junction, Reno, NV)
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Don,
I hope you make it home save and soon!
I have heat issues, too, here in FL, when trying to do highway rides and charge. The lack of effective cooling has kept me from charging for upwards of 45min in the past.
A battery temp gauge to give some idea of when charging might be an issue would be great, e.g., if slowing down a bit to reduce battery temp would mean charging without waiting for the battery to cool when sitting still. I'm sure its a complex calculus, but just knowing when you're approaching the critical batter temp above which charging is not allowed would be great to know. On my bike at least, there's no indication (from the bike) of a critically high temperature after a fast / hard ride in the heat until one starts to charge.
-S
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Don,
I hope you make it home save and soon!
I have heat issues, too, here in FL, when trying to do highway rides and charge. The lack of effective cooling has kept me from charging for upwards of 45min in the past.
A battery temp gauge to give some idea of when charging might be an issue would be great, e.g., if slowing down a bit to reduce battery temp would mean charging without waiting for the battery to cool when sitting still. I'm sure its a complex calculus, but just knowing when you're approaching the critical batter temp above which charging is not allowed would be great to know. On my bike at least, there's no indication (from the bike) of a critically high temperature after a fast / hard ride in the heat until one starts to charge.
-S
I made it home, see my new thread about charging in the heat. There is an app that shows battery heat, Zero Voltage. (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bitshape.zero_voltage&hl=en_US&gl=US)Charging stops when the battery gets to 50 C / 122 F.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Don,
I hope you make it home save and soon!
I have heat issues, too, here in FL, when trying to do highway rides and charge. The lack of effective cooling has kept me from charging for upwards of 45min in the past.
A battery temp gauge to give some idea of when charging might be an issue would be great, e.g., if slowing down a bit to reduce battery temp would mean charging without waiting for the battery to cool when sitting still. I'm sure its a complex calculus, but just knowing when you're approaching the critical batter temp above which charging is not allowed would be great to know. On my bike at least, there's no indication (from the bike) of a critically high temperature after a fast / hard ride in the heat until one starts to charge.
-S
I made it home, see my new thread about charging in the heat. There is an app that shows battery heat, Zero Voltage. (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bitshape.zero_voltage&hl=en_US&gl=US)Charging stops when the battery gets to 50 C / 122 F.
-Don- Reno, NV
-Don- Reno, NV
Don, is that app accurate on the battery temp? Seems that if there were a temp sensor on the battery we'd be able to display that on the Zero display screen..thx
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Don, is that app accurate on the battery temp? Seems that if there were a temp sensor on the battery we'd be able to display that on the Zero display screen..thx
I also wondered why it is not on our screens. We only have motor temperature.
If the battery really stops charging at 50C, I will say that app is 100% accurate on reading the temp where we really need such.
But even without the app, you know your battery is getting too hot to charge as soon as you can get no more than one second of Regen and then coasting like you have never thought was possible on a Zero.
BTW, I assume there is also a temperature that will shut down the bike and you will not be able to ride at all. Or perhaps a limp mode. But fortunately, I didn't have to experience that, the bike ran fine, other than the no regen.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Don, is that app accurate on the battery temp? Seems that if there were a temp sensor on the battery we'd be able to display that on the Zero display screen..thx
I also wondered why it is not on our screens. We only have motor temperature.
If the battery really stops charging at 50C, I will say that app is 100% accurate on reading the temp where we really need such.
But even without the app, you know your battery is getting too hot to charge as soon as you can get no more than one second of Regen and then coasting like you have never thought was possible on a Zero.
BTW, I assume there is also a temperature that will shut down the bike and you will not be able to ride at all. Or perhaps a limp mode. But fortunately, I didn't have to experience that, the bike ran fine, other than the no regen.
-Don- Reno, NV
I haven't noticed the lack of regen at high temperatures, but that makes sense of course. (This is only an issue so far for me when doing highway travel, and I try to find a charging station as close as possible to the highway, so minimal riding time where'd I'd notice it.
I have a 12V 2 x USB connected to a handlebar that has a thermistor dangling from it. I could probably run a wire from that to a standardized spot on the battery (would not want to dig into the encasing of course) to get somewhat of a battery specific external temp, which I presume would reflect the battery temperature generally.
I found this on the unofficial Zero manual as far as temp limits: https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Battery_Temperature_Limits
It looks like 122?F or above and charging is reduced.
But I didn't find how / where *battery* temp is measured in the 2013+ unites. (A Charge control unit was used in 2013-2014, but not any more: https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Gen2/Charging_Control_Unit)
Seems it would be easy to tap into the BMS sensor to get temp, but I'm not finding that info. right now.
122?F is not terribly hot, really.
-S
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Don,
I hope you make it home save and soon!
I have heat issues, too, here in FL, when trying to do highway rides and charge. The lack of effective cooling has kept me from charging for upwards of 45min in the past.
A battery temp gauge to give some idea of when charging might be an issue would be great, e.g., if slowing down a bit to reduce battery temp would mean charging without waiting for the battery to cool when sitting still. I'm sure its a complex calculus, but just knowing when you're approaching the critical batter temp above which charging is not allowed would be great to know. On my bike at least, there's no indication (from the bike) of a critically high temperature after a fast / hard ride in the heat until one starts to charge.
-S
I made it home, see my new thread about charging in the heat. There is an app that shows battery heat, Zero Voltage. (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bitshape.zero_voltage&hl=en_US&gl=US)Charging stops when the battery gets to 50 C / 122 F.
-Don- Reno, NV
Cool - Glad you got home!
Didn't see this post about the app! SWEET!!!
-S
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I found this on the unofficial Zero manual as far as temp limits: https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Battery_Temperature_Limits (https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Battery_Temperature_Limits)
It looks like 122?F or above and charging is reduced.
But I didn't find how / where *battery* temp is measured in the 2013+ unites. (A Charge control unit was used in 2013-2014, but not any more: https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Gen2/Charging_Control_Unit (https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Gen2/Charging_Control_Unit))
122?F is not terribly hot, really.-S
The chart shows charge is tapered at 43C to 50C which probably means it makes no difference if I try to charge at six KW or three KW. It shows charging stops at 50 to 60C, (122F to 140F) perhaps depending on FW version, but it was exactly 50C / 122F on my DS and I had NO charging at all, just an overheated alarm icon that I never saw before yesterday. 122F doesn't sound all that hot to me either, but I am no battery expert. It is what it is.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I have the 50 amp Tesla Tap that I use on my Mustang Mach E. Haven't yet tried it on any of my Zeros.
As far as connecting goes, I have discovered that here in Vegas at least, they mostly seem to be throttled back.
I have not had any NOT work, but, most seem to work similar to 30 amp J1772. I have found ONE that seems to
work at double that giving me 12KW an hour which is MORE than Ford claims. I usually do One or two hours exactly
at similar starting levels for comparison. The information isn't readily ( for me anyway ) accessible so I have to look
at percentage added in time connected. If looking to take advantage of available charge capability, the 40 amp version
won't really provide more than the 8K or so previously mentioned. Glad that I chose the 50 amp over the 40. Had I Known
about the higher speed charger on the F-150 Lightning, I probably would have gone with the 80.
Not sure about earlier generation Destination chargers, but the newer ones have a switch inside that allows the owner to
set to " Tesla Only ". This probably wasn't thought of much early on, but, with more adapters coming on the market, it
is probably having more attention paid to it.
As far as battery temperature, It is accessible via the app and possibly dash at least on the older models. I have a
2013, 2014, and 2016. I was working on " reviving " the batteries on my 2013 FX so rode a bit with only one battery installed
to see how it worked and distance. I discovered that the battery DID get hot and as I recall, it cut off at just under 130 degrees
battery temperature. I BELIEVE that I had battery temperature set for viewing either on the Dash or App when I was drag racing
my 2014.
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Don, is that app accurate on the battery temp? Seems that if there were a temp sensor on the battery we'd be able to display that on the Zero display screen..thx
I also wondered why it is not on our screens. We only have motor temperature.
If the battery really stops charging at 50C, I will say that app is 100% accurate on reading the temp where we really need such.
But even without the app, you know your battery is getting too hot to charge as soon as you can get no more than one second of Regen and then coasting like you have never thought was possible on a Zero.
BTW, I assume there is also a temperature that will shut down the bike and you will not be able to ride at all. Or perhaps a limp mode. But fortunately, I didn't have to experience that, the bike ran fine, other than the no regen.
-Don- Reno, NV
I haven't noticed the lack of regen at high temperatures, but that makes sense of course. (This is only an issue so far for me when doing highway travel, and I try to find a charging station as close as possible to the highway, so minimal riding time where'd I'd notice it.
I have a 12V 2 x USB connected to a handlebar that has a thermistor dangling from it. I could probably run a wire from that to a standardized spot on the battery (would not want to dig into the encasing of course) to get somewhat of a battery specific external temp, which I presume would reflect the battery temperature generally.
I found this on the unofficial Zero manual as far as temp limits: https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Battery_Temperature_Limits
It looks like 122?F or above and charging is reduced.
But I didn't find how / where *battery* temp is measured in the 2013+ unites. (A Charge control unit was used in 2013-2014, but not any more: https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Gen2/Charging_Control_Unit)
Seems it would be easy to tap into the BMS sensor to get temp, but I'm not finding that info. right now.
122?F is not terribly hot, really.
-S
Battery temp is probably talked to over CAN with the main bike board which then talks to the controller, and afaik no one knows how to talk to the BMS over CAN yet which is why the aftermarket charges are considered "dumb". Maybe with the pack opened up there may be a way to find it though.
https://zeromanual.com/images/b/bf/Anderson_pins.png
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stops at 50 to 60C, (122F to 140F) perhaps depending on FW version, but it was exactly 50C / 122F on my DS and I had NO charging at all, just an overheated alarm icon that I never saw before yesterday. 122F doesn't sound all that hot to me either, but I am no battery expert. It is what it is.
-Don- Reno, NV
Yes, I misspoke/typed what that chart says as far as tapering vs. preventing charging.
In my case, I'm using two aftermarket chargers and the onboard, with the first aftermarket (EVTricity) wired directly to the battery and the other (6.6kW) via the accessory port.
I'll have to pay closer attention, as I've had both of those chargers cut off when on a highway trip (hot day in FL), and that might be that the external charger connected to the the motor controller was cutting out b/c of voltage surges (the same J1772 that feeds that 3.3kW runs to the onboard charger which would cut off a 122?F) or possibly b/c it was getting too hot.
I imagined the accessory port charging is under the control of the BMS of course.
(This is nice to know if / when I'm in a real jam and feel I can perhaps still get away with the 3.3kW charger wired directly to the motor controller/battery terminals and bypass the BMS' cut-off function.)
Battery temp is probably talked to over CAN with the main bike board which then talks to the controller, and afaik no one knows how to talk to the BMS over CAN yet which is why the aftermarket charges are considered "dumb". Maybe with the pack opened up there may be a way to find it though.
https://zeromanual.com/images/b/bf/Anderson_pins.png
The app that Tom posted is android only (I'm on an iPhone), unfortunately... It seems though that a smart controller with a BT function could obviously gather that info. and thereby adjust charging.
Yes, it should be easy to spot a thermistor taking in the the temperature if someone does a batt. teardown (which has certainly been done!).
-S
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(This is nice to know if / when I'm in a real jam and feel I can perhaps still get away with the 3.3kW charger wired directly to the motor controller/battery terminals and bypass the BMS' cut-off function.)
Nope. The BMS is inside the battery case. The only thing you will bypass is the fuse for the external charging.
My Elocns are wired to the motor controller and they go open when I get the alarm. On the 2.5KW Elcons, if the light flashes alternate green and red, it means it sees no battery at all to charge, and that was happening to me yesterday when I had the overheat alarm.
You probably don't want to charge a hot battery anyway. A good way to ruin it.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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(This is nice to know if / when I'm in a real jam and feel I can perhaps still get away with the 3.3kW charger wired directly to the motor controller/battery terminals and bypass the BMS' cut-off function.)
Nope. The BMS is inside the battery case. The only thing you will bypass is the fuse for the external charging.
My Elocns are wired to the motor controller and they go open when I get the alarm. On the 2.5KW Elcons, if the light flashes alternate green and red, it means it sees no battery at all to charge, and that was happening to me yesterday when I had the overheat alarm.
You probably don't want to charge a hot battery anyway. A good way to ruin it.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
Well I thought I could be a bit sneakier than Zero allows!
This explains then the behavior (going by memory - it's been a few weeks) I've seen in the past when highway riding and charging was cutting out when trying to charge:
It was the larger of my two chargers (6.6kW) that would cut out, but the smaller that I've got wired to the BMS, which I presumed b/c the BMS was disallowing accessory charging (slowing to just the onboard, or so I thought), but this was actually b/c my charger was overheating, it seems. The BMS would have shut off both chargers if battery temperature were too high.
So, now I'll have to pay attention as I've had quite a few different charging issues in hot situations, but can't recall the specifics of whether / when the bike was stopping charging (error) in relation to my chargers. I know, for instance, when I came back from a ride last weekend the dash TEMP light came on when I was charging with the onboard (wall outlet - not external chargers), but it was apparently charging although giving no time estimate.
The above has happened before and I simply unplugged and came back later when the bike was cooled down. This last time I figured the BMS would allow charging when the bike cooled down, and the temp indicator would be off. An hour or so later, the bike had been charging but the temp light was still on. I presume this was b/c charging rate was REDUCED (might have been a yellow / not red indicator, so this would make sense).
Thanks for your exchange here, Tom - very helpful to me!
-S