ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: MrMogensen on June 05, 2021, 11:07:23 AM
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I am confused
Thought that EGO got traction/cruise/heatgrips in 2018/2019.
Saw a new listing from a German dealer on a 2017 Ego that says it has ASR (traction control). I asked via E-mail and dealer said yes!?
It can't be that some shipped with and some without. It's not exactly an optional thing... Help?
The bike is absolutely stunning!!!
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?action=parkItem&id=325044483
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Pictures 18 and 29 are the most revealing. Picture 18 shows the dash with no traction control icon. Picture 29 shows the older style Domino instrument cluster that they used on bikes without traction control.
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Thank you very much!!
Apparently dealer has no clue :/
Too freakin’ bad… that bike looks stunning.
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Dealer apologized and offered me a discount. That discount would easily cover renting a van (to load up the bike) and the whole trip to southern Germany and back to Denmark.
Really really considering it... even though I'd of course prefer traction control for 200Nm on one wheel.
Is the "old" battery pack horrible? Dealer wrote the battery has been to Modena for service (replacing some cells I believe).
As far as I can google (and see here) I can expect less than 70-100 km in sport mode and 150-170 in Eco mode? Or is that too much?
With my usual commuting pattern I will never experience problems with the short range. I have a home charger (since I already have an electric car).
Maybe the Zero just don't cut it for me because of non DC charging. With the Zero I can say goodbye to most trackdays... haven't gone for a few years but I really want to again. If I have to drive 300 km to the track the Zero would be terrible with no DC charging. Still for everyday commute the Zero is of course the very wise choice.
A huge Energica problem is no official dealer in Denmark. Parts can always be shipped but if I get a serious problem with electrics I have about 150-200 km to nearest dealer in Sweden - it's Italian after all... Maybe American isn't much better.
The regular mechanical maintenance I have no problem doing myself. Been working on my FZ6 for over 10 years. Even though I hate chains I can always install Scotoiler (like I have on my FZ6) or the new lubefree chain (can't remember the name of the brand).
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Extra question about that "old" battery.
If I am extremely unlucky and that battery some day dies on me...
Would the new 21,5 kWh pack fit on the 2017-18 bike - of course also with new wiring and so on?
Maybe I have to address this question directly to Energica...
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My understanding at this time they will not upgrade the battery pack. But it's certainly worth contacting Energica directly to find out pre purchase. Also ask if any warranty is left and if they know anything about that battery service. I don't think they will replace cells so either a new 13kWh pack or maybe a BMS replacement that the dealer doesn't understand.
Good luck.
Can you test ride it first?
Oh one other thing. They charge nice and fast from a DC charger but only 3kw from an AC source but if you're commute isn't that long or you have charging at work then you will have a very enjoyable ride in and out of work.
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Slow AC is no issue. Daily commute is only 50km on total so there is room left for an occasional detour.
Will reach out to Energica directly!
Maybe the dealer can tell me the registration number or whatever it’s called on the bike, so Energica can tell me about the battery repair/device.
Can test ride - surely… but it’s an 9-10 hour drive there!
Are those AC 3 kW on 3 phases or only 1?
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Are those AC 3 kW on 3 phases or only 1?
That's single phase.
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Is the Zero’s typical 3 or 6kW charging also single phase?
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Is the Zero’s typical 3 or 6kW charging also single phase?
Zero puts each charging module on a different phase for EU bikes. Their Premium model has two 3kW chargers and the put them on separate phases. If you add the Rapid Charge module, another 6kW charger, they add that on the third phase.
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My favorite pic is the one showing 56km range at full SoC, someone was having fun riding it recently!
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My favorite pic is the one showing 56km range at full SoC, someone was having fun riding it recently!
Looks like it :o
Does the estimated range easily jump up and down (due to the relatively small battery)? So if you go full throttle the first 5 km the estimated range drops like this and slowly climbs up at legal speed?
I mean if I travel to southern Germany because I want to buy this beasty Energica I don't want to see that nearly 100 SoC = some 50km!!!
In my car (Model 3) it just eats top chunks of the estimated range when flooring it. It never drop from 400 to 150 km because of this.
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MrMogenses, I also own a Model 3, and just like you I saw the rated range in my car instead of an estimated one, so that led me to use percentage instead of rated range. I suppose you can get Tesla's estimated range by opening the energy graph but that car has such good range why bother? I rarely get my car's rated range since most of my trips are ~80 mph.
I can't be exactly sure how many kms the estimated range Energica's go by but it really does seem like it uses very short distances (probably really close to your 5km number). I've experienced hopping on my bike with a SoC of 60% only to see the estimated range go UP from 30 miles to 40 miles after riding 10 miles just by taking it easy.
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MrMogenses, I also own a Model 3...
Also switched to % after a few months because it seemed easier to compare how efficient (or not ;D ) I was on same daily trip.
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Dealer gave me the bikes VIN right away so I could E-mail my questions regarding battery directly to Energica. Got confirmation E-mail shortly after and waiting for their sales department to reply. Asked about the battery repair/service (if there is any current extended warranty because of that). I also asked if it is possible to later on install a higher kWh battery + wiring (maybe even with traction+cruise) if the small (but heavy) battery dies or whatever... maybe in 4-5 years the price is less.
Just curious and all of above can of course affect my buying decision.
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MrMogenses, I also own a Model 3...
Also switched to % after a few months because it seemed easier to compare how efficient (or not ;D ) I was on same daily trip.
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Dealer gave me the bikes VIN right away so I could E-mail my questions regarding battery directly to Energica. Got confirmation E-mail shortly after and waiting for their sales department to reply. Asked about the battery repair/service (if there is any current extended warranty because of that). I also asked if it is possible to later on install a higher kWh battery + wiring (maybe even with traction+cruise) if the small (but heavy) battery dies or whatever... maybe in 4-5 years the price is less.
Just curious and all of above can of course affect my buying decision.
The updated battery and wiring harness are not backwards compatible.
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Got confirmation E-mail shortly after and waiting for their sales department to reply.
Just don‘t be disappointed if you do not get answers right away. I did the same last year (okay, in the prime time of Covid-19), that request was nether answered. Stick to the dealer instead. I can recommend JCB (Japan Custom Bikes) near Hannover - positioned on your way back with a good customer focus, he‘s got Zero and Energica (since last fall) next to Kawasaki plus Otten. The latter is extremely engaged in E-mobility. Otten is also well known in Germany because of his 6.6kW customized TC-charger for the Zero S/DS models.
Don‘t focus on the estimated range. I do have the 21.5kWh battery and no experience with the smaller one, but I would expect you see 50km range only if you ride *VERY* engaged, full accel and always around the max allowed limits. If you ride more with anticipation, I would expect 80…100km, maybe a bit more.
You will also find a SS9 (also smaller batt) used for unnegotiated 15.5kEUR - the one that was formerly used by the issuer of the KRADBLATT magazine. If you are capable of German (or use machine translation), you will find useful info about that particular bike in the KRADBLATT archives. Just google it.
These days, there is a small but fine small selection of used Energicas around 15k in Germany, so the only outstanding feature of your suggested bike are the Ohlins. Great choice if your bottom can measure the difference ;D.
Good luck with whatever you will pick!!
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Sam at New Zeroland has the smaller battery and just toured with his Energica. He gets about 100km on a pushed ride.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdEMqkiM5I-98gxZKJXQ65Q
-Crissa
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The updated battery and wiring harness are not backwards compatible.
I hope you are wrong ;)
Just don‘t be disappointed if you do not get answers right away.... I did the same last year (okay, in the prime time of Covid-19), that request was
These days, there is a small but fine small selection of used Energicas around 15k in Germany, so the only outstanding feature of your suggested bike are the Ohlins. Great choice if your bottom can measure the difference ;D.
For me it's also the EGO, perfect color (same as my car), looks like all checkboxes for carbon fiber was ticked.
Sam at New Zeroland has the smaller battery and just toured with his Energica. He gets about 100km on a pushed ride.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdEMqkiM5I-98gxZKJXQ65Q
-Crissa
I have seen some of his videos and they are great. In one of the vidoes he talkes about servicing the Ego and how easy Energica is to talk too (no problem getting parts and guides). Sam mentions that Zero is a bit of a struggle - hard to buy parts and they want a dealer to fit everything.
Since I am buying a used bike with little or no warranty I don't want home servicing to be a struggle.
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Putting that white Ego on hold until I hear from Energica. No panic...
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Sam is vouching hard for Energica US, as do I. How easy it is to work with Energica EU is a question for someone else to answer.
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Zero is trying to use a dealer system. If you have a good dealer, the major things are easy. You have to do less maintenance on a Zero.
Less but maybe harder, or more but maybe easier?
-Crissa
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Less but maybe harder, or more but maybe easier?
From what I have seen in New Zeroland's servicing video it looks fairly easy (well maybe not lifting the bike on a stand but it's not that often).
Every year I have to disassemble the inner cowling of my FZ6, lift up the gastank to access airfilter and also adjust intake vacuum (bought the instrument so might as well use it), adjust idle speed, engine oil, oilfilter... bla bla bla... I am not getting another ICE bike.
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The scheduled maintenance except testing commissioning on a Zero is super-easy. An Energica on the other hand needs all that and regular chain lube and transmission fluid.
So yeah, 'less and maybe harder vs more but usually easy'.
-Crissa
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Less but maybe harder, or more but maybe easier?
From what I have seen in New Zeroland's servicing video it looks fairly easy (well maybe not lifting the bike on a stand but it's not that often).
Every year I have to disassemble the inner cowling of my FZ6, lift up the gastank to access airfilter and also adjust intake vacuum (bought the instrument so might as well use it), adjust idle speed, engine oil, oilfilter... bla bla bla... I am not getting another ICE bike.
I dunno man, the Energica requires quite a bit more service than modern ICE bikes. Both my BMW and Ducati call for service intervals of 18K miles.
The Zeros are better in many many ways. Less service, lighter, better efficiency, etc.. only advantage of the older Energica is DC fast charging, and it's not even that fast.
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hahah hell yeah my bro everything sucks and is stupid rite?
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only advantage of the older Energica is DC fast charging, and it's not even that fast.
How fast is it on the older Energicas? What KW rate do they charge at?
And do they have a reverse?
Zero still has not put a reverse in their heaviest bikes and still none have a DC fast charge.
-Don- Reno, NV
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My Eva 107 and my Ribelle would charge at 24kw/75A. But the Eva started to taper around 70% SOC and the Ribelle starts to taper by 40% SOC.
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The latest Zeros aren't nearly heavy enough to warrant a reverse. Most maxi scoots are considerably heavier!
Cas :)
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The latest Zeros aren't nearly heavy enough to warrant a reverse. Most maxi scoots are considerably heavier!
Cas :)
I would find a reverse on my Zero SR (with pwr tank) to be helpful. And the SR/S is heavier than my SR.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I can not comment on anything but the 240 pound Ktm. Drive line resistance and no neutral make pushing in any direction, especially from a stop different than transmission type.
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My Eva 107 and my Ribelle would charge at 24kw/75A. But the Eva started to taper around 70% SOC and the Ribelle starts to taper by 40% SOC.
40% SOC seems awfully low to be dropping the charge current. But by how much? Do you have some real numbers?
40% is about where I would expect the max charging.
On a CCS charge, unless I need every drop of range possible, I usually stop the charging when it gets below 10KW, which is around 90% SOC, IIRC. That's on my 2020 SS9-.
They came out with the "+" about a month or two after I bough my "-" at the same price as the "+". Very poor timing for me. But as long as there are enough charge stations, the range is a non-issue. Mine is still good for around an hour of highway riding, which is when I like to take a break anyway. No real big advantage of longer range when it takes twice as long to charge.
-Don- Reno, NV
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DonTom,
Here are a few numbers;
19% SOC; 22kw/73A
41% SOC; 21kw/68A
46% SOC; 19kw/63A
50% SOC; 18kw/58A
60% SOC; 15kw/49A
70% SOC; 15kw/47A
80% SOC; 15kw/45A
Eliminating the cooling channels found on the Eva 107 means there was more room for more cells and a larger battery capacity give the space. But the issue is heat build up which can REALLY slow down charging speed. I know a rider with an Esse 9 who after nearly 24 hours of non-stop riding and charging plugged into a CCS charger and was at 5% SOC, charging at 6kw/21A and was going to take 1hr54 min to 80%.
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DonTom,
Here are a few numbers;
19% SOC; 22kw/73A
41% SOC; 21kw/68A
46% SOC; 19kw/63A
50% SOC; 18kw/58A
60% SOC; 15kw/49A
70% SOC; 15kw/47A
80% SOC; 15kw/45A
Eliminating the cooling channels found on the Eva 107 means there was more room for more cells and a larger battery capacity give the space. But the issue is heat build up which can REALLY slow down charging speed. I know a rider with an Esse 9 who after nearly 24 hours of non-stop riding and charging plugged into a CCS charger and was at 5% SOC, charging at 6kw/21A and was going to take 1hr54 min to 80%.
15KW at 80% SOC doesn't seem all that bad to me, but seems a bit low for 60%.
And that 6% at 5% SOC, I would assume the charge rate will go up a bit from there and the time would go down. Or did it stay at 6KW?
BTW, have you gotten into the red? On a warm day, my batt indicator normally stays in the yellow after the first CCS charge. Sometimes it's back in the green just by the time I need my next charge, so I don't see much green. And that is on my 2020 SS9-, which should be cooler than the +.
I don't know if charge rate lowers in yellow, but I never noticed any difference between yellow and green charge times.
I have not yet hit red. IIRC, red will put the bike in limp mode.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Surly it's just anecdotal, but you can charge a SS9+ with 24kW at up to 80% if the weather is cooler and you don't start from empty but from 25%. I've also made similar experiences to ultranr when charging on a hot day from 5-10%.
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Same here on my SS9+ I can charge up from 30% to 80% for sure without going into the red all day long (did it). It was only when I reached 10% that it turned red. I still have to test the exact threshold but it's very likely 20 or 25%. Also it might just be the time spent CCS charging.
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Same here on my SS9+ I can charge up from 30% to 80% for sure without going into the red all day long (did it). It was only when I reached 10% that it turned red. I still have to test the exact threshold but it's very likely 20 or 25%. Also it might just be the time spent CCS charging.
Sounds normal...higher charge transfer resistance exists when SOC is lower hence more heat is generated for given charge rate...this is good discovery data.
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MrMogenses, I also own a Model 3...
Also switched to % after a few months because it seemed easier to compare how efficient (or not ;D ) I was on same daily trip.
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Dealer gave me the bikes VIN right away so I could E-mail my questions regarding battery directly to Energica. Got confirmation E-mail shortly after and waiting for their sales department to reply. Asked about the battery repair/service (if there is any current extended warranty because of that). I also asked if it is possible to later on install a higher kWh battery + wiring (maybe even with traction+cruise) if the small (but heavy) battery dies or whatever... maybe in 4-5 years the price is less.
Just curious and all of above can of course affect my buying decision.
The updated battery and wiring harness are not backwards compatible.
Finally Energica Modena gave me some answers...
Unfortunately not able to (later on) install the bigger battery + wiring due to technical and homologation issues.
The battery repair was due to owner leaving it with a depleted battery for a long time (wondering what long time is?). Energica replaced 1/4 of the cells and since it was owners fault there is no extended warraty on the rest of the battery.
This kills my interest in that beautiful white'n carbon covered Ego.
Actually I have begun to gain interest in the SS9. From many angles I don't quite like the look of the Ribelle.
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The excessive time depends on the charge of the batteries. At 50% you probably have a month or so to charge it. If you're below 10% you only have a few days. If you're at 0% you need to charge now. Leaving it at an excessive low charge will permanently damage cells.
-Crissa