ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: princec on May 31, 2021, 05:16:25 AM
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So, first time I've ever tried to use a public charger. Picked a dead cert, 45 miles from home. Every charge on the 22KW Mennekes (AC) adapter appeared to be successful according to Zap-Map (Lidls, Portland on the south coast). What could go wrong?
After the usual bullshit setting up an account, putting £10 on it, etc. for Podpoint, I managed to claim the charger as my own and followed the incredibly simple instructions. Plug in cable, wait for charge to start... "Cannot lock cable!" says the Podpoint charger. Oh yes you fucking can, it went shlep as I plugged it in and it won't come out now, and the bike has put itself in charging mode. Key in, remove cable, try again. Several times. I give up when a Tesla turns up (he plugs straight into CCS and immediately begins charging at 50KW).
At this point I'm extra cross. Not only am I just under half SOC, but this is the first damned public charger I've ever tried to use, and it didn't bastard work, for no good reason. I'm so f*cking angry.
Is there something about Mennekes and Zeros I don't know?
Cas :)
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The Zero would start charging without the pilot signal, but it needs the pilot signal to know how much to charge at. And it can't get the pilot signal if the circuit doesn't connect, so...
So it must be some weird proprietary thing the EVSE was doing.
-Crissa
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So, first time I've ever tried to use a public charger. Picked a dead cert, 45 miles from home. Every charge on the 22KW Mennekes (AC) adapter appeared to be successful according to Zap-Map (Lidls, Portland on the south coast). What could go wrong?
After the usual bullshit setting up an account, putting £10 on it, etc. for Podpoint, I managed to claim the charger as my own and followed the incredibly simple instructions. Plug in cable, wait for charge to start... "Cannot lock cable!" says the Podpoint charger. Oh yes you fucking can, it went shlep as I plugged it in and it won't come out now, and the bike has put itself in charging mode. Key in, remove cable, try again. Several times. I give up when a Tesla turns up (he plugs straight into CCS and immediately begins charging at 50KW).
At this point I'm extra cross. Not only am I just under half SOC, but this is the first damned public charger I've ever tried to use, and it didn't bastard work, for no good reason. I'm so f*cking angry.
Is there something about Mennekes and Zeros I don't know?
Cas :)
Need some info. What type of bike? And when you say "charger" do you mean a DC charger? If it's AC, such as J-1772, then the charger is inside your bike. The J-1772 is no more of a charger than is a home outlet. It's just an AC supply for the charger in your bike. If it's a DC charger then the charger is the charge station direct to your battery.
But your posted in the Zero section which cannot use any on-road DC charging of any type. But you did say 22 KW and AC. All this needs some clarification.
Locked in charge cables normally have a way to unlock at anytime and turn charging off. Such as with my Energica, turn the key on and press in "mode" a couple of times. I don't know about the Zero Charge Tanks, as I use extremal chargers on my Zeros.
But what bike do you have? That would be a good place to start to figure out what the issue was.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Don he's in Europe where they don't use J1772 and 22kW AC stations are plentiful.
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After the usual bullshit setting up an account, putting £10 on it, etc. for Podpoint, I managed to claim the charger as my own and followed the incredibly simple instructions. Plug in cable, wait for charge to start... "Cannot lock cable!" says the Podpoint charger. Oh yes you fucking can, it went shlep as I plugged it in and it won't come out now, and the bike has put itself in charging mode. Key in, remove cable, try again. Several times. I give up when a Tesla turns up (he plugs straight into CCS and immediately begins charging at 50KW).
Is there something about Mennekes and Zeros I don't know?
Cas :)
If I remember from previous discussions, you own a SR/F, right? Did you use a station with a fixed cable or did you bring your own? If you have your own cable it usually works by first plugging in to the bike, then swipe card/activate station with app, then plug into the station. You'll here a click where both station and bike will lock the cable. Having the bike keyed on or off for this should make no difference.
Have you tried a different provider than podpoint? Maybe there is even a free station somewhere closer to you for testing before going all-in? And make sure to let them know that it didn't work for you!
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Yes, SR/F, 22KW Mennekes connector, brand new and expensive cable brought with me. The SR/F disconnects its end when the ignition is keyed on, so it has to be done with the bike off. The Podpoint charger indicated that it was the vehicle end that wouldn't latch but it definitely was because it couldn't be removed until I turned the bike back on (and also, I can hear the latch operating). The Podpoint end didn't seem to have a latch (tried wiggling it and so on), so it is possible that the error message was just plain wrong and it meant to say that the chargepoint end was not locked.
This is the first public charger I've ever tried to use. There are a few other operators within 10 miles of me that I can have a go at.
The thing is... it should have Just Worked. Like it did for the guy in the Tesla who rolled up and just plugged in.
(Also.. it shouldn't have required me to have a phone, buy a £10 goodybag from Gifffgaf, download an app, register an account, check email for a confirmation, confirm, log in, enter a credit card manually, put £10 into the Podpoint account, find the charger on the map with GPS to help, and select the right charger... but we'll gloss over all that bs in the knowledge that the providers that remain in 10 years will simply take a contactless card pressed against them and Just Work and all the rest will be history).
Cas :)
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(Also.. it shouldn't have required me to have a phone, buy a £10 goodybag from Gifffgaf, download an app, register an account, check email for a confirmation, confirm, log in, enter a credit card manually, put £10 into the Podpoint account, find the charger on the map with GPS to help, and select the right charger... but we'll gloss over all that bs in the knowledge that the providers that remain in 10 years will simply take a contactless card pressed against them and Just Work and all the rest will be history).
That's unfortunate but not the norm. In the EU, all chargers are required to offer ad-hoc charging (usually a QR code on the charger that you can scan). This will allow you to use it without an account (but typically at a higher price). I'm not sure about the UK, but maybe there are roaming cards that can be used with various vendors. Maybe a good idea to look around for tips at a UK EV forum?
I'm in Austria and I carry 4 different cards with me which basically allow me to enable every charger here (cards are more reliable than apps). Fortunately, I didn't have too many issues (except for chargers that were obviously out-of-order).
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Don he's in Europe where they don't use J1772 and 22kW AC stations are plentiful.
I assumed he was in Europe when he used " £10". But I was thinking he said he was Charing at 22KW. Not much need in mentioning the capacity when we cannot charge at that rate on any stock Zero.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I assumed he was in Europe when he used " £10". But I was thinking he said he was Charing at 22KW. Not much need in mentioning the capacity when we cannot charge at that rate on any stock Zero.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Actually it's very important to note that. Due to the 3 phase power system and the way Zero set up their chargers, 22kW stations are the needed to get full power (12kW) if you have the Rapid Charger installed. They'll only get 9kW out of the 11kW stations. I consider it a useful nugget of information whether or not this person had the Rapid Charger.
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6KW premium - should have worked fine and got 6KW out of it. Note that the bike was ready to charge and locked the cable fine.
Cas :)
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Actually it's very important to note that. Due to the 3 phase power system and the way Zero set up their chargers, 22kW stations are the needed to get full power (12kW) if you have the Rapid Charger installed. They'll only get 9kW out of the 11kW stations. I consider it a useful nugget of information whether or not this person had the Rapid Charger.
Is it three phase 480 VAC with only two wires going the Zero charger at around 270 VAC or so? What do they call their EV charge stations there, if not J1772?
Should I assume the cars in Europe have 3 phase chargers and can use the full 22KW?
I would like to know how things work over there. I know it's a better system than what we have here in the USA.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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]Is it three phase 480 VAC with only two wires going the Zero charger at around 270 VAC or so? What do they call their EV charge stations there, if not J1772?
Should I assume the cars in Europe have 3 phase chargers and can use the full 22KW?
I would like to know how things work over there. I know it's a better system than what we have here in the USA.
It's 230 VAC three phase (400 VAC between phases). The stations are usually called by the name of the plug which is Type 2 or Mennekes which is the name of the company which made them first. Most cars have three phase 11kW chargers (3x16A), Renault Zoes and some others up to 22kW (early models up to 43kW which you still find at old triple chargers that have 50kW CCS, 50kW Chademo and 43 kW AC).
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6KW premium - should have worked fine and got 6KW out of it. Note that the bike was ready to charge and locked the cable fine.
Maybe it was the station which couldn't lock the cable? Depending on the plug design, a considerable amount of force can be necessary to fully plug in the cable. You should hear the locking itself after plugging in.
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I did think it was that - but the graphic and message on the unit did specifically indicate the bike end wasn't working. But that could be just a rubbish error message, and perhaps it is the one at the unit that wasn't locking. I wish I could remember if I checked it now.
Cas :)
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... perhaps it is the one at the unit that wasn't locking. I wish I could remember if I checked it now.
I recently went over 22'000 km my SR/F so I have gained experience with charging stations, in Switzerland, France, Italy and Germany:
- Some stations which worked fine 9/10 won't charge without any reason 1/10 (no error message). When on tour, I plan twice the number of charging stations in case they are not working or busy.
- I also end up having multiple cards, 4 physical and 2 more using the ID of another NFC card. I don't pay recurring fees for any of them.
- I have about 8 charging network app on my smartphone
Things are getting a little better now. Whenever possible I am using the mobility+ app (https://www.enbw.com/elektromobilitaet) because it has excellent roaming, it is priced on the kWh, it does not have a base fee and does not bill the time spent charging. This makes it ideal for slow charging situations such as with our Zeros.
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This is one of my pet peeves regarding electric vehicles. Ever heard of a petrol station (or the fuel in there) not being compatible with your ICE vehicle.
Yes, it has happened to many. I had a car that was undrivable with Shell regular gasoline back in the 1970's.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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You didn't have to recite the national anthem backwards, do a triple somersault, and swear on your mother's life before they'd sell you any though, I bet.
Cas :)
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You didn't have to recite the national anthem backwards, do a triple somersault, and swear on your mother's life before they'd sell you any though, I bet.
Cas :)
Well, I agree CCS charging can be a hassle to get started at tines and I have wondered if EV cars often have the same problems. Might have something to do with the rather low charge rate of electric motorcycles.
One CCS charger I have NEVER had an issue with, always works on the very first try, are those CCS chargers at HD shops that I can never get more than 15KW out of. I often get better than 25KW our of the others when I once get them to work--if I can.
With AC charging, I have had issues with Tesla Destination chargers turning off in five or ten minutes after I start a charge.
At home, I once had an issue with my Tesla Wall Connector. It made my Energica think it was a fast charge and would try to "negotiate fast charge" and then the Wall Connector would turn red and shut off. I took the cover off the Wall Connector and checked the switches and other stuff. I found NO problem at all. But since I put the cover back on, it has worked perfectly every time, so that is still a mystery. It did NOT look like any wires were pinched or loose.
I have never had an issue with J-1772 or a 240 VAC outlet, as long as I was not overloading it, which I can do charging at 8KW with my Zero SR.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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The slightly dicky technology aside, it's incredible that these companies put up the ridiculous hurdles to actually buying electricity. It literally should be as simple as "wave contactless card at pad". Even easier than buying petrol. But no, they are fools.
In mitigation, contactless+accountless charge points are beginning to pop up over here. Soon they will take over, I hope.
Cas :)
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The slightly dicky technology aside, it's incredible that these companies put up the ridiculous hurdles to actually buying electricity. It literally should be as simple as "wave contactless card at pad". Even easier than buying petrol. But no, they are fools.
In mitigation, contactless+accountless charge points are beginning to pop up over here. Soon they will take over, I hope.
Cas :)
The ChargePoints I just tried here, (https://www.plugshare.com/location/64737) would NOT work with their own card. Not either of the CCS chargers. But the J-1772 would. The CCS chargers used to work with their card at that location. See my check-in there.
I had to activate the machine via cell using the ChargePoint app.
I find this BS to be fairly common. Sometimes one method will work but not another. And there are some charge stations in Nevada that are out of range of cell service, so if the cards don't work, the machine cannot be used.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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A diesel car in desperate need of a tune, I guess. ;D But did you have issue putting the Shell fuel into your car?
I know it's not the same thing, but back in the late seventies/early eighties when they were transitioning off of leaded fuels, the pumps that dispensed unleaded had narrower spouts, and the cars designed for unleaded fuel had narrower filler holes. You couldn't insert a leaded fuel hose into a vehicle designed for unleaded fuel.