ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: flo_93 on May 26, 2021, 12:15:35 AM
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Hi
I want to fast charge my zero S 2014 and was thinking about buying this charger:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/3-3KW-EV-electric-vehicle-on_62534604736.html?spm=a2756.order-detail-ta-ta-b.0.0.1ac12fc2xDIrNE
Does anyone of you have experience with this charger?
What else do i need (except the Anderson port) to use it and to have the "charge enable" pin?
thanks!
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Hi
I want to fast charge my zero S 2014 and was thinking about buying this charger:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/3-3KW-EV-electric-vehicle-on_62534604736.html?spm=a2756.order-detail-ta-ta-b.0.0.1ac12fc2xDIrNE (https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/3-3KW-EV-electric-vehicle-on_62534604736.html?spm=a2756.order-detail-ta-ta-b.0.0.1ac12fc2xDIrNE)
Does anyone of you have experience with this charger?
What else do i need (except the Anderson port) to use it and to have the "charge enable" pin?
thanks!
You will probably find some useful info here. (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=8298.0)
If you mean the charge enable on the bike, you will not need to use it as long as you also use the OBC to close the contactor. You will then charge at around 4.7 KW, (if your 2014 has a 1.4 KW charger).
If there is a charge enable on the charger you're buying, you usually have two wires to short together to activate the charger. You can permanently solder them together and leave it always activated as I did with my external Elcon chargers.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I helped do a group buy on a handful of programmed units.
I plan to help get more, but they won't be available until July apparently.
But yes - these work very well, need to be programmed, and plug into the aux port with an Anderson SBX75BRN connector.
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Thanks for the info!
I already ordered it and had it set to 116V max.
Seller said there is also a 12v line on the charger - could i use that for the Charge Enable Pin?
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Thanks for the info!
I already ordered it and had it set to 116V max.
Seller said there is also a 12v line on the charger - could i use that for the Charge Enable Pin?
What charge enable pin are you asking about? Where is it located?
-Don- Reno, NV
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@Flo sure, for this you use a 5V linear regulator (they cost 30ct) connect the 12V on its input and use the output 5V into the charge enable pin. Make sure to use a 10k resistor in this 5V signal line to the bike:)
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Thanks!
Will this voltage regulator work?
L7805CV Linear Regulator
https://www.adafruit.com/product/2164
Why is the 10k resistor needed?
thanks!
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Yes this one is perfect and very common. It's the same one I use.
The resistor is there to protect the bikes electronics. We don't really know what is on the other side of the little signal pin, maybe it's a 3.3V electronic. So for good measure, and since it works just fine, we use a resistor.
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Yeah, the resistor is so it's not just a dead short.
-Crissa
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Thanks!
Will this voltage regulator work?
L7805CV Linear Regulator
https://www.adafruit.com/product/2164 (https://www.adafruit.com/product/2164)
Why is the 10k resistor needed?
thanks!
The resistor lowers the current. The regulator shouldn't be necessary if the resistor is used. After the 10K ohm resistor the current will be so low you won't have to worry about it doing any harm. Because of this, the resistor is a better idea. You don't want it regulated--that will be a lot more possible current that will not load down as easily under the very light load.
-Don-
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You should also know that 12v on the charger is extremely noisy when charging, especially the more amps you draw from the charger. So much so that I couldn't run an Arduino on it, even through a generic buck converter. and a cap on both ends.
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You should also know that 12v on the charger is extremely noisy when charging, especially the more amps you draw from the charger. So much so that I couldn't run an Arduino on it, even through a generic buck converter. and a cap on both ends.
Try a choke in series.
I am now working on a problem with charger noise. I have reasons to believe the electrical noise from my Elcons on the AC cord are turning off the 16KW Tesla Destination stations on me. So I am adding this filter (https://www.amazon.com/Suppressor-Single-Phase-Line-Conditioner-JREle-CW4L2-20A-S/dp/B073MCGBP5/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=ac+line+filter&qid=1625089512&sr=8-4)and will see what happens in a couple of days.
The filters should be here today.
-Don- Reno, NV
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You should also know that 12v on the charger is extremely noisy when charging, especially the more amps you draw from the charger. So much so that I couldn't run an Arduino on it, even through a generic buck converter. and a cap on both ends.
Try a choke in series.
I am now working on a problem with charger noise. I have reasons to believe the electrical noise from my Elcons on the AC cord are turning off the 16KW Tesla Destination stations on me. So I am adding this filter (https://www.amazon.com/Suppressor-Single-Phase-Line-Conditioner-JREle-CW4L2-20A-S/dp/B073MCGBP5/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=ac+line+filter&qid=1625089512&sr=8-4)and will see what happens in a couple of days.
The filters should be here today.
-Don- Reno, NV
Speaking of chokes, my 2018 S had two in series (which didn't help it's internals keep from burning up), however the replacement OBC has only one. I have a lot of AC noise at my home but none of it is coming from my charger, unless I place a cheap AM radio near my Zero when it is charging.
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@DonTom A regulator should also be used. If you have a microcontroller with a very high resistance input, then it's possible that no charge/current flows away at all. So even if you have a very large resistor, at 12V+ it'll just take a few milliseconds longer to raise the voltage and kill the microcontroller.
So a 5V regulator, and then a resistor on top is the cleanest version.
(I know people were putting large resistors between the battery +
and the signal line, but that's just a horrible idea:D)
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So a 5V regulator, and then a resistor on top is the cleanest version.
As long as both are used, I agree. The resistor is a must in either case.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Thanks for all the information!
The gnd from the regulator goes to the negative (116v) of the charger?
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Yes. But where do you get your power from for the regulator?
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12V auxiliary power line - so the OP needs to use the 12v auxiliary ground, not the charger DC ground
https://sc04.alicdn.com/kf/H00b6019a21224816b265fc2121e111b8t/234038344/H00b6019a21224816b265fc2121e111b8t.jpg
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Someone should put that photo on the unofficial manual.
Links can expire...
-Crissa
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I'm not sure the Aux 12V exists on his charger, that's why I asked.
It must be referenced to the battery ground, since this is what the bike needs to understand the signal.
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Yes, it is the 12v auxilary output i want to use...
So 12v Gnd or 116v gnd?
Can there go anything wrong if i just try?
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It must be battery ground, cause the bike uses this as the reference for the signal.
What you should do is check for continuity between the Aux GND and charge output GND on your charger. If they're the same it's ok, if not you'll have to connect them both.
Makes sense?:)
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I checked for continuity but it seems the 12v lines ground and the charger output are not connected...
Is it safe to connect both grounds or can the charger be damaged?
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I checked for continuity but it seems the 12v lines ground and the charger output are not connected...
Is it safe to connect both grounds or can the charger be damaged?
It should be fine.
The purpose of a ground is so a lot of wire can be saved with a common connect on every wire. That saves a lot of wire and much work in the design. Around 50% of it. There has to be a completed circuit or else grounding things together cannot draw any current or do anything at all.
If running two grounds together causes a problem, then some info. is missing here. By itself, it is not a problem.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Thanks, i will try that then...
Annother question:
I already charged with the charger while keyed on. It charges fine.
Now i want to know if the chargers voltage is right...
Is the battery voltage in the app while charging also the voltage provided by the charger or can the charger voltage actually be higher?
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the voltage is always the same, since the charger is directly connected to the battery with nothing in between, just the cable;)
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Thanks, i will try that then...
Annother question:
I already charged with the charger while keyed on. It charges fine.
Now i want to know if the chargers voltage is right...
Is the battery voltage in the app while charging also the voltage provided by the charger or can the charger voltage actually be higher?
I do not understand the question. Charging voltage must be higher than the battery voltage to charge at all. But too high will cause problems and make the battery overheat. But it can be tricky to go by voltage as, AFAIK, the chargers require to see voltage to put out voltage, so there is no simple way to measure it. And to measure the high DC current can also be tricky.
I am not the correct person to ask when it comes to how the chargers should be programmed and such. But some others here probably can help with that.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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Of course charging voltage has to be higher than battery vpltage :)
What i meant was:
How can i check the input voltage of the charger while charging? I dont want the charger to put in for example 140v when the battery has only 103v
The app just shows me battery voltage not charger voltage
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Of course charging voltage has to be higher than battery vpltage :)
What i meant was:
How can i check the input voltage of the charger while charging? I dont want the charger to put in for example 140v when the battery has only 103v
The app just shows me battery voltage not charger voltage
So the way it works is when the charger is connected, it can't actually put out 140v, if it did then it would apply like 1000 amps and definitely overheat the battery. The charger voltage is so close to the battery voltage it doesn't matter. What does matter is how high the charger will charge the battery to. You don't want to overcharge to a higher voltage than recommended (115v I think).
Hopefully that sort of explains it. The charger isn't capable of doing what you think it might do. The only thing you need to check is final pack voltage after charging.
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Of course charging voltage has to be higher than battery vpltage :)
What i meant was:
How can i check the input voltage of the charger while charging? I dont want the charger to put in for example 140v when the battery has only 103v
The app just shows me battery voltage not charger voltage
If the charger voltage is too high, the charging current will be too high. There is no way you're going to get 140 VDC on the load of the 103V battery with a 3.3 KW charger. The current draw will keep the charger voltage down if you only have 3.3 KW of charging.
What you can do, if you know the voltage at 100% SOC, make sure your charger voltage stays below a half volt or so above that battery voltage while charging. IOW, expect why charging to get to just above the battery voltage, but not much above and you should be okay.
At least that is what I would do. There are probably others here who can give you a more precise answer.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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Listen to mryan:) he explained it correctly.
@flo, the only thing that matters is the voltage that the charging ends at.
While the charger is connected to the battery, they both have the same voltage. The battery pulls the charger to whatever voltage the battery has.
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Thanks, that explained it for me :)
I had the seller set the max. Voltage to 116,4v but i never intendet to charge to 100% with this charger...
I just want to use it when i am on the road to get from about 20 to 80%
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Ah well that is no problem, just that you will have to end charging manually;)
There's one important thing: never unplug the cable that goes towards the bike first. There's like 30A DC on it, and it will make an arc and destroy the connector.
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Thanks for the tip :)
I have another quick question - i just measured the voltage of the charger attached pin from my DeltaQ Quiq Charger... It is 3,4V...
With my l7805cv and the resistor it gives me 5.02 volt
Is it still safe to connect my pin to the charger enable line to the bike or do i need a 3,3V signal?
Sorry for all the questions but i dont want to fry my electronics...
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Hey,
No problem, this Forum is made for questions;)
With 5V and a resistor you are safe, that's what I did, and many others. Some people when connected the battery voltage (100V+!) over a resistor directly to this pin:D that's very risky but it seems to work.