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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: DonTom on May 17, 2021, 11:15:19 AM

Title: CCS chargers
Post by: DonTom on May 17, 2021, 11:15:19 AM
Today, on my nice trip around Lake Tahoe, when I charged, I checked the labels on CCS chargers for a change. I normally only check level two because I like to charge my Zero SR at around 8KW.


But I was curious what voltage the CCS runs from, to see if 240 VAC is in them. The answer is NO! However, it is 3-phase 480 VAC, which means there is 277 VAC between any two wires at a very high current capacity. IOW, the voltage will not drop much under a heavy load.


So now I see the issue. EV chargers are normally good for 90 to 265 VAC input.  277 VAC is slightly out of spec and will stay close to that under load.  But I suppose they could use a 1.2 to 1.0  step down transformer, and it won't be all that large for 7 KWs, and would make a negligible difference when somebody is DC fast charging. But I can also understand why they will not bother.


See label below from the new BOA CCS chargers at South Lake Tahoe. Four of them there, others nearby.


-Don-  Reno, NV
Title: Re: CCS chargers
Post by: princec on May 17, 2021, 01:38:02 PM
As I understand it, the chademo spec was supposed to allow down to the sorts of voltages a Zero could accept, but half of the actual hardware out their failed to implement it properly, which is why Zero gave up on it.

Cas :)
Title: Re: CCS chargers
Post by: DonTom on May 17, 2021, 02:00:32 PM
Quote from: princec on May 17, 2021, 01:38:02 PM
As I understand it, the chademo spec was supposed to allow down to the sorts of voltages a Zero could accept, but half of the actual hardware out their failed to implement it properly, which is why Zero gave up on it.

Cas :)
I know that programming for any type of a DC fast charger is a major headache for all EV makers. Every time there is a FW update, I hear it has to be tested on every vehicle design possible. And then all types of issues come up.


Even with all that, it still happens that some DC fast chargers are not compatible with some vehicles but are okay with others. Sometimes even the same year and model.


I would like to say it's getting better, but see my check-in here. (https://www.plugshare.com/location/163259)


I thought about given them  call, as the guy did a few days after me with his Energica, but I rode down to Lodi and charged with a ChargePoint with no hassle at all. Worked on the first try. I find it not uncommon to have to try two or three times, which is a hassle, as each try I have to disconnect and start all over. The charger often fails about 15 seconds into the initiation negotiation with my bike. 


-Don-  Reno, NV
Title: Re: CCS chargers
Post by: Demoni on May 19, 2021, 06:53:22 AM
This is why organizations like Charin are so important. When stations and vehicles conform to the same standards, there should be no concern about interoperability.

https://www.charin.global/technology/knowledge-base/ (https://www.charin.global/technology/knowledge-base/)

Title: Re: CCS chargers
Post by: DonTom on May 19, 2021, 08:05:49 AM
Quote from: Demoni on May 19, 2021, 06:53:22 AM
This is why organizations like Charin are so important. When stations and vehicles conform to the same standards, there should be no concern about interoperability.
But in the real world, there is. On the Energica, some CCS chargers work MUCH better than others. Most I can get to work on one or two tries. Some I cannot get to work at all.  But so far,  all of those have been Electrify America, but even some of those work perfectly with my Energica, such as the one in Fernley, NV. Hopefully it still works as I need to use it tomorrow and they have no J-1772 close by or anything.


I wonder if they are running different FW from the one in Elk Grove. (https://www.plugshare.com/location/163259) I will check the FW version tomorrow at Fernley, if it  shows on the screen. Notice the reliability at Elk Grove is 7.2, but is a 10 (perfect, nobody reported any issues at all) at the same type of charger in Fernley, (https://www.plugshare.com/location/186879) NV.


But at least now I know if I cannot get it to activate, perhaps I can with a phone call to them as did the last Energica did in Elk Grove. I wonder what the difference is between them activating and us doing it on the app. It does initialize, but charging  fails during that process when done with the App. I wish they used a member card as all the others do.


-Don-  Reno, NV
Title: Re: CCS chargers
Post by: princec on May 19, 2021, 04:40:27 PM
Just the quickest peek into software development interoperability issues, particularly regarding protocols (Bluetooth, I'm looking at you), would tell us that it's amazing anything works at all.

Cas :)
Title: Re: CCS chargers
Post by: DonTom on May 19, 2021, 06:41:50 PM
Quote from: princec on May 19, 2021, 04:40:27 PM
Just the quickest peek into software development interoperability issues, particularly regarding protocols (Bluetooth, I'm looking at you), would tell us that it's amazing anything works at all.

Cas :)
And not only Bluetooth, but how some apps work fine one some Smartphones and others don't which includes some charging apps.


And then you find the Smartphones that work fine with any of the charge Apps, but won't work with the Zero App. and vice versa.


Just too many things that can go wrong with software / hardware compatibility issues. 


Like the FW update that made my Tesla backup camera not work at all.  Perhaps one Tesla in a hundred  had the issue. Lucky me. All worked again  with the next FW update,  several weeks later.


-Don-  Reno, NV



Title: Re: CCS chargers
Post by: KrazyEd on May 20, 2021, 05:43:12 AM
It Isn't JUST Motorcycles Don.
I recently picked up a Mustang Mach E.
I got it in Austin TX and drove it back to Vegas using Electrify America Exclusively.
Only One problem, All stations were down at a location, a phone call to them got
them to reboot the unit that I wanted to use and all was well.
Planning a Trip to Tonopah in early June so wanted to test a few things.
There is a 50 amp CCS in Amergosa Valley on the Greenlots System I believe.
One that is Specifically supposed to work with the Mach E. Tried several times,
they rebooted it a couple times, no good. There is a ChargePoint " Legacy "
charger in Beatty. I used it in January for my Bolt, no problem. Didn't work
on the Mach E. Another ChargePoint " Legacy " charger in Tonopah, shown as
being used a few days before my visit by a Bolt. Didn't work on Mach E.
Surprisingly, there is a stop in GoldField that is on the EV Connect System that
doesn't even show up on THEIR App. 2 DCFC stations. Worked perfectly on the Mach E.
Hopefully, if you choose to visit Vegas, they would work with your Energica. All had
Level II units that Did work. I haven't ventured in THAT direction with my Zeros, but,
did use the Level II in Beatty a few years ago when I wanted to see if my SR would
make it to Beatty from Vegas.
Title: Re: CCS chargers
Post by: DonTom on May 20, 2021, 11:23:54 AM
It was a great 278.8 mile trip! I went a little farther than planned. I decided I wanted to go past  Walker Lake , so I rode down to Hawthorne, NV and used the FREE CCS charger there at the rest stop.


Great trip, but two things went not as planned.


1. Road being repaved for a good ten miles just north of Schurz, NV.  Longest I ever waited for road construction. Almost an hour! Traffic backed up for miles on US 95, both  directions.  Many 18 wheelers going here and there on the closed road, both directions shut down at the same time, for other than those trucks.  And then they let north bound go first, must have been a few hundred cars backed up.

2. Both of the CCS fast chargers at Silver Springs look fine, but do not work at all. I called the number and there was nothing they could do. They sent me this E-mail:



"Tristan Max Bonnit (EV Connect)

May 19, 2021, 6:30 PM PDT

Hi Donald,

Thank you for reaching out!

As discussed, a ticket has been created for station ABB0013 and is currently going through our troubleshooting process. We apologize for any inconvenience this issue may have caused. We'll be sure to reach out once the issue has been fully resolved.

In the meantime, don’t hesitate to reach out if there is any further assistance we can offer.

Best Regards,

Max Bonnit
EV Connect | evconnect.com"

Good thing I was able to slow charge  (3KW) at Yerington at the Chevy dealer as I ate in a nearby restaurant. All my charges after that on the way home were at 3KW (J-1772 and Tesla Destination). I just added enough charge to get to the next charge place each time. I got home with two miles range left. I am now charging. I just got back minutes ago.I would be home around an hour later if it were not for being able to charge in Yerington as I had lunch. More than an hour sooner if the fast chargers at Silver Springs worked. At least they had a working J-1772 there and I was faily close to home on the way back. I got home in the dark.-Don-  Reno, NV[/t][/color]