ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Hansi on May 15, 2021, 05:38:57 PM
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Will this make it into the MY 2022 https://pushevs.com/2021/04/11/farasis-energy-reaches-330-wh-kg-with-new-battery-cell/ ?
What would it mean in terms of battery capacity?
Faster charging speed, DC option?
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Most of the time new technology has a much longer time table than expected.
I would say Benz would get the first batches unless they want Zero to be the guinea pig.
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Another article about it. This would bump the 7.2 models up to ~ 9kWh.
https://www.electrive.com/2021/03/26/new-farasis-battery-cells-offer-25-more-range/ (https://www.electrive.com/2021/03/26/new-farasis-battery-cells-offer-25-more-range/)
The key take away is this phrase, "the new battery technology enables fast charging from 10 to 80% SoC in less than 20 minutes"
Well yeah...only if Zero bundles a charger that takes advantage of that.
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Or it includes a series of contactors to swap the order of cell strings so that you could DC charge...
-Crissa
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CCS requires a 300V battery minimum. Since Zero uses a 100V battery, unless they've made some serious engineering changes for the motor and controller you're not likely to see CCS in MY 2022. Think more like "evolution" rather than "revolution."
I'll be happy to see the SR/S in red...
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I have heard of "maybe" a DC-DC converter being used to up the voltage to what is needed.
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CCS requires a 200V battery minimum.
fixed
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CCS requires a 200V battery minimum.
fixed
Really? Everything I'd seen previously said 300V. I'll take your word for it.
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I have heard of "maybe" a DC-DC converter being used to up the voltage to what is needed.
That would not work.
-Crissa
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Really? Everything I'd seen previously said 300V. I'll take your word for it.
See page 5 here. (https://courses.edx.org/assets/courseware/v1/f139af99a88d8dc335a0b68645e1a119/asset-v1:DelftX+eCARS2x+1T2018+type@asset+block/eCARS2x_Lecture_Notes_L3-3.pdf)
"In general, CCS charger can deliver up to 350 Amps at a voltage of between 200 to 1000V giving a maximum power output of 350 kW."
-Don- Reno, NV
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I have heard of "maybe" a DC-DC converter being used to up the voltage to what is needed.
That would not work.
-Crissa
Be sure to tell them that here on page two. (https://courses.edx.org/assets/courseware/v1/f139af99a88d8dc335a0b68645e1a119/asset-v1:DelftX+eCARS2x+1T2018+type@asset+block/eCARS2x_Lecture_Notes_L3-3.pdf)
"Then, the power control unit appropriately adjusts the voltage and current of the DC/DC converter inside the charging station to control the variable DC power delivered to charge the battery."
-Don- Reno, NV
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"In general, CCS charger can deliver up to 350 Amps at a voltage of between 200 to 1000V giving a maximum power output of 350 kW."
Most stations are 200-500vdc output. The 350kW ones are usually like 1 out of every 4. More of them are going in every day, but the existing infrastructure is, for the most part, 200-500.
The LiveWire, for example, operates between 250-300vdc; it would not work if the cutoff was 300. Energica bikes, also, operate between 280-330vdc and would have the same problem.
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Skip to the 20:00 mark for the DC-DC info or listen to the whole thing because it's fun.
https://soundcloud.com/thedrivenpodcast/the-future-of-electric-bikes
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I have heard of "maybe" a DC-DC converter being used to up the voltage to what is needed.
That would not work.
Be sure to tell them that
That doesn't contradict me.
-Crissa
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@ JamieC, you answered to Crissa that DC charging is not possible because the battery is only 100V, but that's exactly what he addressed in his post above:) he said a set of contactors would be needed to change the arrangement of the cells to achieve higher voltage. Zero batteries are 28S4P, (28 series 4 parallel, so in total 112 cells). With contactors it could be changed to 56S2P for example, or even 112S1P, giving 400V.
Not practical of course;) but possible
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Not practical of course;) but possible
Exactly. You couldn't do balancing that way, but for a quick 20-80 charge, it would work.
Rivian has the patent on this, though, even with prior art being seen in drones and well, anyone who flipped batteries around between their boom box and charger.
-Crissa
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I would put down a lot of money on them NEVER doing that just because of the absurdity of it. Just think of the potential failure points. "Help my bike is stuck in 56S and won't go into drive mode"
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Noo, better: "help, my bike is burning cause 28S and 56S mode activated at the same time, what can I do"
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Well, I suppose the motor controller could get stuck and it would catch on fire, too. Or the DC-DC board.
Rivian says they're doing it.
-Crissa
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I think it's nice when companies with no products make bold claims
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I know that's why competition is so great. It forces companies to get better.
I bet if you go break the news to Amazon that the 100,000 trucks they ordered from Rivian will never be made they might give you free shipping on your next order.
Let me know how that goes.
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I think it's nice when companies with no products make bold claims
Just curious, are you doubting Rivian is ever coming to market?