ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => Electric Motorcycle News => Topic started by: JaimeC on May 14, 2021, 05:34:32 PM
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Ver-r-r-ry interesting. There's more than just batteries that power our EVs and this looks VERY promising for the near future.
https://newatlas.com/automotive/mahle-magnet-free-electric-traction-motor/
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I sure hope that new motor works as predicted. It would be really great not to have to use rare earth minerals in the hundreds of millions of electric motors that will be built in the future.
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Induction motors are just less efficient, usually.
As the first comment points out, the first Tesla cars used induction motors (though this is a new way of doing them) and I think the bolt motor is also an induction motor.
-Crissa
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Yep, this is just a slightly improved Induction motor.
Induction motors are pretty good for AWD, and they're typically in use when there's high power demand, otherwise they're waiting in stand-by. Induction motors barely inflict any friction when they're doing nothing while PM motors always fight no matter what.
Also, induction motors are typically a lot smaller, cheaper, and lighter than PM ones but yeah less efficient.
As the first comment points out, the first Tesla cars used induction motors (though this is a new way of doing them) and I think the bolt motor is also an induction motor.
All AWD Tesla's still use induction motors but they're not the primary source of power, the main beefy PM motor still does most of the acceleration and all of the regen.
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So if what you're saying is true, any vehicles using this technology will likely NOT have regenerative braking unless there is something else put into place?
It would be good to break China's stranglehold on EV technology. It's worse than the Middle East's control of petroleum as there are plenty of petroleum sources other than theirs. China apparently has a monopoly on rare earth EV technology.
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So if what you're saying is true, any vehicles using this technology will likely NOT have regenerative braking unless there is something else put into place?
No. They still have regenerative braking. They're just always using a little power to get it. There are two sets of coils, one to power the rotor, one for traction.
-Crissa
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Well, sort of, except these magnets only show signs of getting weaker after 100 years, so I won't lose any sleep over them getting crappier. And it's not like they can't be recycled.
Cas :)
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Under optimum conditions rare-earth magnet lose about 5% of strength over 100 years. Hardly anything to stress about, is it? Keyword here is optimum. That means best possible conditions. The principal cause of premature weakening and shifting of the magnetic field is heat and stray electromagnetic fields. Unfortunately both of these are in large quantities on the inside of a motor running under heavy and/or uneven load. Like, for example, in a motorcycle, or a car. Each case will of course be different, but this can easily make the 100 year 5% strength loss happen in only few years.
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Yes, they'll wear out.
But it's not like you can't replace a motor and recycle the metals inside it near perfectly.
Because we almost can.
-Crissa
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All components incur a certain amount of wear every year, even it if's very small.
-Crissa
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I'd also say that the battery or one of the (hideously expensive) control boards is going to wear out rather sooner.
Also, has anyone ever noticed how rare bikes with 6-figure mileages are...
Cas :)
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Also, has anyone ever noticed how rare bikes with 6-figure mileages are...
Decent ones have only been around for half a decade, and that's true of any motorcycle. Most never see regular use in English-language areas.
-Crissa
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I mean, like, any bikes at all - over here in the UK it's rare to see something with even 30000 miles on it before it disappears into the back of a shed never to be seen again.
Cas :)
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I'd also say that the battery or one of the (hideously expensive) control boards is going to wear out rather sooner.
Also, has anyone ever noticed how rare bikes with 6-figure mileages are...
Cas :)
220,000 miles on the original engine (no top-end work) on my K1200LT and still going strong. I know quite a few owners of older BMWs that can make similar claims as well as many GoldWing owners... But you're basically right. To most people here in the States, motorcycles are toys, not actual vehicles. I'm definitely the exception to the rule.
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The youngest K1200LT is older than the oldest 2013+ Zero, isn't it? They discontinued it in 2011, I think. ^-^;
Also, you can rack up the miles on a tourer alot faster than a Zero.
-Crissa
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You can, but I bet they tend to sit idle for months of the year, where the Zero is getting its 50 mile commute in every single day...
Cas :)
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Interesting discussion! What no one has mentioned is the ease and cost of rebuilding an EV induction motor verses an ICE engine?
Have rebuilt some old alternators, generators, and starter motors in the past and once on the bench it only took an hour or so to knock out the bearings, do a few minor repairs and it was done at a very low cost, even if I had to replace the armature.
Not going to do that with an ICE!
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Here is Mahle's YouTube spin on their new motor design. It looks promising to me. Might be kind of expensive, though. And I wonder how durable those wireless encoder sensors will be over time. ??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY6TuVUxYQw
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Tesla's original motor didn't have permanent magnets in it.
-Crissa
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Here are a few words regarding Tesla's new carbon fiber wrapped motor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtTm_XOHd7w
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Wow, that's real edge-case stuff. Fascinating. It should really up the reliability, too.
-Crissa