ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: fredx on May 14, 2021, 03:49:50 AM
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Hey all,
I've got a 2020 SR/F that won't charge. It has always worked great, until now. I hadn't ridden the bike in a few weeks (left it at about 80% charge), and then rode it this week, and tried charging it today. The contactor clicks, the cooling fan fires up, and no charging happens, the cooling fan winds down, and eventually the red battery indicator light illuminates. I've tried two separate EVSEs.
Looking through the menus, I get error codes 26, 28, 31, 33, and 37 showing up.
(https://photos.app.goo.gl/nx5v5RbCe8DJ5MbXA)
Up until now, I could consistently get 5.7kW or more charging. Today, zero.
I love this bike. Until today!
Thanks,
- Fred
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I'd start by checking your 12V Battery, per Code 28.
It's under the Seat, behind a plastic cover.
You will see the +/- Terminals and a Strap that holds it in.
It might need to be charged (but only with a special charger for Lithium Power-Sports [low AH] Batteries).
Also, only charge it, if it's fully disconnected from Bike & only by connecting direct to it's Battery Terminals.
If you take it out, I'm curious if it has any Group Size Designations allowing for a Universal Replacement.
Although probably best to buy a new one, from Zero, if it wont charge back to > 12V.
BTW - What FW are you on?
Just wondering if newer/older FW has more/less issues with 12V Static Drain.
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Thanks, lunarx, that's very helpful. I tried simply turning on the bike for awhile last night, in the hopes that it would charge the 12V battery on its own with more time turned on, but no luck. And then I simply left the charger plugged into the bike when I went to bed, wondering if it might come to life at some point.
Bad idea! When I woke up, the bike was completely dead. I unplugged the charger and disassembled the plastics to get at the 12V battery. It read 3.7V. Ouch. I connected it to a small 12V li-ion Battery Tender, and managed to get it charged up properly. Now the battery reads around 13.5V.
Now the bike is back to life, but it still refuses to charge. It's the same behavior; I plug in the charger, the bike wakes up, the contactor clicks, the cooling fan comes on, no charging happens, the cooling fan slows and stops, and eventually the red battery indicator comes on. The error codes are 26, 31, 33, and 37.
One of those errors is a CANbus error, another says low DC-DC converter voltage, and the others just say to disconnect the bike, turn it off, wait 2 minutes, and try again. Very helpful.
I even tried the https://zeromanual.com/wiki/MBB_Hardware_Reset (https://zeromanual.com/wiki/MBB_Hardware_Reset) procedure, with no luck.
The bike's firmware version is 6V26
I'd love to avoiding bringing this bike to a Zero dealer and having it out of commission for awhile, but alas, I'm getting discouraged! Thanks for your help. :)
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One of those errors is a CANbus error, another says low DC-DC converter voltage,
My guess is your DC2DC converter crapped out or has a flakey connection somewhere. The low voltage is probably giving you all the other errors.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Hey all,
I've got a 2020 SR/F that won't charge. It has always worked great, until now. I hadn't ridden the bike in a few weeks (left it at about 80% charge), and then rode it this week, and tried charging it today. The contactor clicks, the cooling fan fires up, and no charging happens, the cooling fan winds down, and eventually the red battery indicator light illuminates. I've tried two separate EVSEs.
Looking through the menus, I get error codes 26, 28, 31, 33, and 37 showing up.
(https://photos.app.goo.gl/nx5v5RbCe8DJ5MbXA)
Up until now, I could consistently get 5.7kW or more charging. Today, zero.
I love this bike. Until today!
Thanks,
- Fred
What percentage SOC are you now at? Get it down to 70% before you try to charge. I have noticed on my Zeros, they will not START a charge at 80% SOC correctly, but will be fine at 80% SOC as long as the charge is started below 70% SOC.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Well at least Code 28 is gone (hopefully) ???
Code 26 does support what DonTom is saying.
The DC-DC Converter looks easy to get to, if your "Tank" is off.
I'll share; that when I took possession of my 21 SR/S it also had Codes 31, 33, 37 stored.
However it charged fine and those codes haven't returned since Clearing them.
My FW was also reported as 6v26 (per Dash Menu).
Interestingly, it still displays 6v26, despite being updated from v18 to v19 (per Performance/Manage-FW in the App).
Maybe see, if you can Connect your App via BT and check what FW it reports.
It might be worth a try, to update, if it lets you (assuming your 12V is healthy enough now).
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still looks so shiney underneath that tank cover :o
But indeed the dash firmware version is not related to the bikes firmware versions. Those 18 and 19 versions are for the bike updated from the app or directly on the bike. For the Dash firmware a dealer would have to connect the dash itself to update that but I didn't see that done so far. So I would say that version is just what it got in the factory.
You have a premium so 2x 3kW right? You could try to charge it from an outlet so that only the first 3kW is used. Compared to using a charge station that will trigger both chargers.
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Just a quick update to say that I was unsuccessful diagnosing or remedying this problem. The bike is at 63% SOC; I trailered it to the dealer this morning to avoid showing up there at 10% (my dealer's an hour away) and having the bike sit there for an extended period with the battery discharged.
I tried disconnecting the 12V battery, the DC-DC converter, and the MBB for a bit to reset everything, and it had no effect. I neglected to check the firmware version...
My guess is a DC-DC converter failure. I'll report back when the dealer service department diagnoses the problem.
At least the bike is under warranty, but this really sucks, with the weather getting beautiful here in Colorado!
Thanks for all the help, folks!
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Just a quick update to say that I was unsuccessful diagnosing or remedying this problem. The bike is at 63% SOC; I trailered it to the dealer this morning to avoid showing up there at 10% (my dealer's an hour away) and having the bike sit there for an extended period with the battery discharged.
I tried disconnecting the 12V battery, the DC-DC converter, and the MBB for a bit to reset everything, and it had no effect. I neglected to check the firmware version...
My guess is a DC-DC converter failure. I'll report back when the dealer service department diagnoses the problem.
At least the bike is under warranty, but this really sucks, with the weather getting beautiful here in Colorado!
Thanks for all the help, folks!
Very interested to hear what it is.
If it's the DC-DC Converter, then I'm ordering a spare.
They aren't very expensive (which maybe is part of the problem :-\
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At 22'000 km two days ago with 30% SOC, I had a very similar problem (only code 28 + code 31). Also both the yellow CEL and red battery lights were lit in the dashboard. That is the first major issue I am having with this bike.
First, just like you it would not charge, then it would not move, and finally, it could boot with the Zero logo, but then would go back to a black LCD in matter of seconds. Luckily this happened after I arrived home. By the way, in my case the 12 V battery measured 12.62 V.
I contacted the dealer who told me without hesitation that they needed seeing the bike, hooking it up on their diagnostic computer. Luckily again my insurance covered such a case so now my bike has already been picked up and will be next week at the dealer.
What bothers me a little, is that it just went to that same Zero dealer for a full service at 20'000 km.
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Electronic failures sometimes give little warning. A connection was conducting, and then it melted/rusted/popped and then it doesn't work anymore.
-Crissa
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Electronic failures sometimes give little warning. A connection was conducting, and then it melted/rusted/popped and then it doesn't work anymore.
What bugs me is how powerless I felt, as you said, there were zero warning. Within minutes, the bike turned from fully functional to totally dead.
I have been driving ICE bikes most of my life and I always knew what was going on, often even what needed be done. EV on the other hand, with their onboard computers, connectivity and software, have gone out of reach for a majority among us here, but also dealers are facing very different issues than what they had with ICE motorcycles (or cars for that matter).
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Sounds like a low isolation issue. Curious to know, do you ride in rainy weather?
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To me, the electronics are easier, but I did vocational electronics in high school, not autoshop ^-^
-Crissa
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Hey all,
I just picked up the bike today, and it's working just dandy again. It's so good be back on the electric tire roaster! 8)
The dealer notes say "DIAG NO CHARGE Description: CUSTOMER STATES THAT THE UNIT WILL NOT CHARGE, THE FAN WILL TURN ON AND SLOWLY DIE THEN FOUR CODES COME ON
Resolution:- FIRMWARE UPDATED
CHECKED HIGH VOLTAGE FUSES (GOOD)
- SENT LOGS TO ZERO
- CHARGING NOW (THRESHOLD SET TO 80%)"
(https://photos.app.goo.gl/FPyjcSS9sXU2anW36)
The current firmware is 19. I now wish I'd checked the firmware version before I'd brought the bike in, but it apparently was something before 19.
I don't understand why it seemingly randomly decided to stop charging, but it's charging again fine now. I rode it home, plugged it into a 6kW EVSE, and saw it charge at 5.7kW.
It was very strange to be without my fave ride for a week. I got back on the SR/F, and kept reaching for the clutch lever. :-[
Thanks for all the pointers and suggestions, folks!
- Fred
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Glad you got it back working!
Guess you hit an edge case where a variable wasn't resetting properly.
-Crissa
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<<< I don't understand why it seemingly randomly decided to stop charging, but it's charging again fine now. >>>
Again, the exact same situation here for me as for fredx. I picked up the bike yesterday. The dealer found nothing wrong with it. My SR/F charges and runs fine again.
I must say I am now a little insecure in case this problem happens again, I would not know what to do. In all cases, I am darn glad to have it back, it's been over a week and I have missed it ;D.
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I couldn't agree more. I'm afraid to trust the bike to charge properly now, but wow, I sure missed it while it was in the shop! I like my Yamaha Super Tenere very much, but the SR/F is my true love. :-*
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Sigh... Here we go again. :'(
I was away and off my sweet 2020 SR/F for just two weeks. I had left it at 80% SOC. I came home, rode it for a few short jaunts, and was hoping to charge it to 100% today for a longer ride tomorrow. It's at 72% now. I plugged in the charger, and nothing happened. The cooling fan fires up, the display comes on, and, nothing. No charging.
This is the exact same problem I had this past spring. No, apparently it wasn't repaired.
I found this Reddit thread where Hans said to cycle the power, sidestand, and kill switch, so I did all that: https://www.reddit.com/r/ZeroMotorcycles/comments/luja3b/waking_up_after_longterm_storage/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/ZeroMotorcycles/comments/luja3b/waking_up_after_longterm_storage/)
I'm hesitant to discharge the battery further, but I've seen a few references to getting down to <70% SOC to get it charging again, so I'll try that tomorrow.
This is frustrating. My nearest Zero dealer is more than 50% SOC away. And I sure don't want to discharge the bike to <30%, when it can't be charged.
Sigh,
- Fred
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Update: I discharged the bike down to 51% SOC, and now it charges again!
I'm still bothered by the voodoo of Zero Motorcycles, where it's impossible to know what's going on, due to a lack of clear documentation combined with the inability of owners to access the inner workings of the software. Right now, I can't even get the Bluetooth connection to work.
All that said, I *LOVE* riding this bike! And now I'm back to riding it!!!
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I don't even know why it wouldn't charge. Charging is pretty binary and doesn't have much software control in a Zero. The chargers kinds just go on or off and follow their very simple charge curve based on the voltage of the pack and the number of chargers engaged is based off the resistance loop on the charging station.
-Crissa
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I don't even know why it wouldn't charge. Charging is pretty binary and doesn't have much software control in a Zero. The chargers kinds just go on or off and follow their very simple charge curve based on the voltage of the pack and the number of chargers engaged is based off the resistance loop on the charging station.
-Crissa
The BMS does a few things, some of it quite weird, such as trying to charge at several KWs when starting at above 80% SOC, (without starting the charge below 70% SOC).
But if you only use the OBC, you will not notice such weirdness. It has to be more than a 2KW charge started at above 80% SOC to really see the issue. And I know it happens on the SR/S as well, so it most likely happens on all the Zeros.
-Don- Reno, NV
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My experience mostly matches what Don said. After the bike sat for just 2 weeks at 80% SOC, I did a few very short rides, bringing it down to 72%. And I had a longer day planned for today, requiring charging to 100%. It wouldn't charge! I'd plug in the charger, the contactor would click, the screen would wake up, the cooling fan would come on, and ... nothing. No charging.
After I took a chance by discharging the bike to 51%, it charged right up, and is running great.
All I can figure is that the BMS went into long term storage mode (even though the owner's manual says that happens after >30 days of inactivity), and that once the bike is in that mode, the only way out is to go ride and discharge it to a low enough SOC for the BMS to wake up and accept a charge.
I can't find any documentation of this stuff; I've only learned it the hard way. I wish Zero wouldn't create these little surprises for the owners of their bikes. But regardless, the riding experience keeps me loving this bike!
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I don't know if this is your problem or not but once my 2020 SRS would not charge and I noticed that the charge target was set to something odd like 26 % which should be impossible because the available values are every 5 %. I know I didn't set the charge target so the bike must have done it spontaneously. I set the charge target to something higher than the SOC and it charged normally and I have not had the problem again. If you have charging issues always check the bottom of the dash display to make sure there is no charge target enabled. Hope this helps.
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I don't know if this is your problem or not but once my 2020 SRS would not charge and I noticed that the charge target was set to something odd like 26 % which should be impossible because the available values are every 5 %. I know I didn't set the charge target so the bike must have done it spontaneously. I set the charge target to something higher than the SOC and it charged normally and I have not had the problem again. If you have charging issues always check the bottom of the dash display to make sure there is no charge target enabled. Hope this helps.
Thanks, but that wasn't it. I ensured the Charge Target was disabled, so it would charge to 100%. The only way I successfully got the bike to charge was to first discharge it further (to 51%, in my case). It's working fine now.
- Fred
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That's good that it's working again but is scary that it has given 2 different owners trouble. There is always that moment of doubt when you are out somewhere and you plug into a charger. Keep your roadside assistance insurance paid up.
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Well, here we go again. Same problem: Plug in the charger, the bike wakes up, the charger cooling fans come on, nothing happens, and the cooling fans slow down and turn off. No charging happens.
The bike was on MBB firmware 19, BMS 19. I tried updating, and now it's on MBB 21, BMS 19. The update had no effect on this problem.
The bike was at 60% SOC, so I tried discharging it further. Now I'm at 23% SOC, with no ability to charge. I've tried two different EVSE's (the TurboCord Duo that came with the bike, and a Clipper Creek 6.6kW EVSE. No charging on either.
I've tried shutting down and restarting the bike maybe 15 times (including using the sidestand and kill switch).
I'm at a total loss. My only dealer is about an hour drive away. I'll have to rent a trailer to bring the bike there.
The warranty ended last month. I've already brought the bike to the dealer for this same problem last year.
I sure enjoy riding this bike, but the inability to diagnose these problems has me ready to sell it and go back to a major manufacturer that produces service manuals!
Any ideas?
Thanks,
- Fred
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The warranty ended last month. I've already brought the bike to the dealer for this same problem last year.
I'd think that if the bike was brought in for this problem under warranty, and it was never resolved and still happening in the same way, the repair should fall under the original warranty claim.
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Well, here we go again. Same problem: Plug in the charger, the bike wakes up, the charger cooling fans come on, nothing happens, and the cooling fans slow down and turn off. No charging happens.
The bike was on MBB firmware 19, BMS 19. I tried updating, and now it's on MBB 21, BMS 19. The update had no effect on this problem.
The bike was at 60% SOC, so I tried discharging it further. Now I'm at 23% SOC, with no ability to charge. I've tried two different EVSE's (the TurboCord Duo that came with the bike, and a Clipper Creek 6.6kW EVSE. No charging on either.
I've tried shutting down and restarting the bike maybe 15 times (including using the sidestand and kill switch).
I'm at a total loss. My only dealer is about an hour drive away. I'll have to rent a trailer to bring the bike there.
The warranty ended last month. I've already brought the bike to the dealer for this same problem last year.
I sure enjoy riding this bike, but the inability to diagnose these problems has me ready to sell it and go back to a major manufacturer that produces service manuals!
Any ideas?
Thanks,
- Fred
Does that bike have a 3 or 6KW charger?
-Don- Reno, NV
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on January 20, 2021, impossible to leave work, driving in the rain.
the dealer changed 2 high voltage strips, and the 12 volt battery which was dead.
since then everything is fine, I charge it from time to time with a lifepo charger, with the cable connected directly to the battery.
it is not advisable to connect the motorcycle and the 12 volt battery at the same time, which I have never done.
I have no error when plugging in this charger.
(https://i35.servimg.com/u/f35/15/20/51/41/20220218.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/15205141/431)
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Does that bike have a 3 or 6KW charger?
12kW. It's an SR/F Premium with the ChargeTank. But this problem happened before the ChargeTank, too.
- Fred
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12kW. It's an SR/F Premium with the ChargeTank. But this problem happened before the ChargeTank, too.
- Fred
I think that means you really have four 3KW chargers.
I am wondering if the problem is being caused by one of the two original 3KW chargers.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I think that means you really have four 3KW chargers.
Nah. The First Gen SR/F and SR/S models had up to two 3kW units, and the Rapid Charger is a separate 6kW standalone unit.
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Well, the bike has been at the dealer for a week now. They sent an inquiry to Zero last Wednesday, and are still awaiting a reply. >:(
- Fred
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Well, the bike has been at the dealer for a week now. They sent an inquiry to Zero last Wednesday, and are still awaiting a reply. >:(
- Fred
We should stop calling them "dealers", they're only sellers ;D
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Well, the bike has been at the dealer for a week now. They sent an inquiry to Zero last Wednesday, and are still awaiting a reply. >:(
- Fred
We should stop calling them "dealers", they're only sellers ;D
Or in the case of the three Zeros that I have bought over the past 10 years, order-takers and deposit holders. ;)
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Well, here's a quick update: the bike has been in the shop for 4 weeks now. The dealer had to contact Zero to diagnose the problem; Zero took a week or so to respond to the dealer and help them. Then it needed a part (inlet harness); Zero took 2 weeks to get a replacement to the dealer (Zero is in California, I'm in Colorado -- I think they sent it by burro). Now there's confusion about the part, and whether it's correct. The dealer has been waiting a week so far for Zero to reply.
I love the bike, but have come to loathe Zero.
- Fred
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I had similar experience. My 2020 SRS would not charge and it took 7 weeks in the shop. Zero would say try this part then they would ship that part. When that didn't work they would try another part. and so on and so on. In all it was 4 parts in total. Each time takes a week and a half or so between conversation, diagnosis, then shipping time. Its a very frustrating way to handle things. And it has made me not trust the zero like I did before.
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The part delays I buy, but the week+ waiting for Zero I don't. Dealers all have a number we can call during the week and get almost immediate answers.
If I were Zero I would make/buy a tool that showed the current status of the repair, dates emails/calls occurred, dates parts were shipped, etc. Then dealers who said that would get caught out.
The stories I have heard for dealers blaming Zero for their own delays and lack of followup are shocking
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The part delays I buy, but the week+ waiting for Zero I don't. Dealers all have a number we can call during the week and get almost immediate answers.
If I were Zero I would make/buy a tool that showed the current status of the repair, dates emails/calls occurred, dates parts were shipped, etc. Then dealers who said that would get caught out.
The stories I have heard for dealers blaming Zero for their own delays and lack of followup are shocking
Your experience doesn't match my own. It finally reached the point, after multiple cases of Zero being unresponsive to the dealer, where the dealer gave me Zero's phone number, and encouraged me to phone Zero directly. I did. I was nice at first, and Zero said they'd phone the dealer that same day (they didn't; they got to it the next day). Then that slipped back into further delays. Finally I was very stern with Zero yesterday, explaining that I'm about to seek legal counsel. Whaddaya know, the correct part has now been shipped overnight! (they shipped the wrong part, slowly, the first time).
I'm still not angry with the dealer, but I think Zero is terrible.
- Fred
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This reminds me of my experience. It took 4 months, with the bike at the dealer, to let me know that it is normal for the battery to loose 1% SOC per day in storage, despite e-mails and phone calls to HQ and the dealer. At first I was told on the phone with Zero that it is not normal, that was the reason I took it to the dealer in the first place. You can imagine my mood after all that. And another 5 months of the same situation with crackling noises from the belt with 1000kms, tech support at Gates says it is not normal, Zero HQ says it is not normal, so the bike goes to the dealer....after 5 months at the dealer and a lot of heated discussions with all of them, it was dismissed as normal. Even though their demonstrator DSR with 800km did not make those noises, which I pointed out. Nothing. Just terrible.
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Latest update: The bike has been at the dealer for over 7 weeks now. No progress. The dealer isn't responding to my messages at this point.
I don't know how this will be resolved. At this point, I simply want out. I have well over $25k invested in this bike, and I just want to be done. This is ridiculous!
Anyone interested in a 2020 SR/F with ChargeTank and eMoto Design Double-J charging? 9400 miles on it. When the bike works, it's amazing! Make me an offer.
- Fred
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Here's another update: My 2020 Zero SR/F Premium has been in the service department at Grand Prix Motorsports in Littleton, Colorado for over 11 weeks now. I brought it there in March to fix this problem where it won't charge.
They asked me to come in last month to remove the eMoto Design double-J charging kit. Fine, I did that, on May 20th. And now, once again, no progress is being made. I'm confident the eMoto Design double-J charging kit wasn't the problem -- this problem occurred sporadically before I installed that. Regardless, neither Zero nor Grand Prix Motorsports appears to be doing anything to solve the problem.
We've had lots of great riding weather. My 2-year-old top-of-the-line Zero has been out of commission for so long now that I've canceled the insurance.
If I could get a factory service manual, I'd happily fix it myself (I have an electronics background, and a Master's in Computer Science). But Zero won't allow us to fix our own motorcycles.
Sorry to share negative experiences, but I don't feel good about keeping this quiet.
Cheers,
- Fred
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Here's another update: My 2020 Zero SR/F Premium has been in the service department at Grand Prix Motorsports in Littleton, Colorado for over 11 weeks now. I brought it there in March to fix this problem where it won't charge.
They asked me to come in last month to remove the eMoto Design double-J charging kit. Fine, I did that, on May 20th. And now, once again, no progress is being made. I'm confident the eMoto Design double-J charging kit wasn't the problem -- this problem occurred sporadically before I installed that. Regardless, neither Zero nor Grand Prix Motorsports appears to be doing anything to solve the problem.
We've had lots of great riding weather. My 2-year-old top-of-the-line Zero has been out of commission for so long now that I've canceled the insurance.
If I could get a factory service manual, I'd happily fix it myself (I have an electronics background, and a Master's in Computer Science). But Zero won't allow us to fix our own motorcycles.
Sorry to share negative experiences, but I don't feel good about keeping this quiet.
Cheers,
- Fred
Hey! Send us a DM and we would be happy to look into this for you.
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But Zero won't allow us to fix our own motorcycles.
How can they stop you? My 2017 SR ABS sensor crapped out during warranty and I replaced it myself instead of bringing the bike to the dealer.
The charger fan crapped out during the warranty period in my Energica. Again, I replaced it myself.
I have fixed many problems during the warranty period on bikes. It's less hassle than dealing with the dealers in most cases. Even if I have to pay for the parts myself.
You probably wouldn't need a manual to fix your charging problem--you won't know until you check it out.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Here's another update: My 2020 Zero SR/F Premium has been in the service department at Grand Prix Motorsports in Littleton, Colorado for over 11 weeks now. I brought it there in March to fix this problem where it won't charge.
They asked me to come in last month to remove the eMoto Design double-J charging kit. Fine, I did that, on May 20th. And now, once again, no progress is being made. I'm confident the eMoto Design double-J charging kit wasn't the problem -- this problem occurred sporadically before I installed that. Regardless, neither Zero nor Grand Prix Motorsports appears to be doing anything to solve the problem.
We've had lots of great riding weather. My 2-year-old top-of-the-line Zero has been out of commission for so long now that I've canceled the insurance.
If I could get a factory service manual, I'd happily fix it myself (I have an electronics background, and a Master's in Computer Science). But Zero won't allow us to fix our own motorcycles.
Sorry to share negative experiences, but I don't feel good about keeping this quiet.
Cheers,
- Fred
Hey! Send us a DM and we would be happy to look into this for you.
I've already phoned you, multiple times. I'll send a DM shortly.
- Fred
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But Zero won't allow us to fix our own motorcycles.
How can they stop you? My 2017 SR ABS sensor crapped out during warranty and I replaced it myself instead of bringing the bike to the dealer.
The charger fan crapped out during the warranty period in my Energica. Again, I replaced it myself.
I have fixed many problems during the warranty period on bikes. It's less hassle than dealing with the dealers in most cases. Even if I have to pay for the parts myself.
You probably wouldn't need a manual to fix your charging problem--you won't know until you check it out.
-Don- Reno, NV
How would I check that out, Don? I am not able to get a factory service manual.
- Fred
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How would I check that out, Don? I am not able to get a factory service manual.
- Freda
I have troubleshot things without a service manual countless times. I find there is one thing worse than no service manual. That is a service manual with errors in the area you need, that are NOT obvious until you fix the thing! I find MOST service manuals to contain errors in various places. I have wasted more time because of that than not having a service manual at all. I can tell you plenty of such stories, as I have spent my entire life in electronics.
But it depends on what is wrong. Often, you can tell just by looking, such as a broken or loose connector or whatever. Has the shop even looked at your bike yet? Probably not as this is the peak shop times in many locations.
Also, who makes the charger? Perhaps you can deal with the company that does. I doubt if Zero makes their own chargers for the SR/F.
BTW, there are some manuals that could be helpful. Here is a link to some Zero manuals. (http://zero-legacy-service-manual-site.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/)
And here is the unofficial Zero manual. (https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Main_Page)
But I don't know if you can find much about the SR/F in either. Or anything similar with the SR/F chargers. I am not at all familiar with the SR/F.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Thanks, Tom.
I brought the bike to the shop in March. Here in Colorado, that's not the busy time. 8)
The bike has two 3kW chargers (Premium version, 6kW charging), plus the ChargeTank (12kW total). I don't know who makes the chargers.
If I plug the bike in, it wakes up, the charge fans come on, no charge current appears (0.0kW), and after a few seconds, the charge fans wind down.
How would I diagnose this?
Thanks for your pointers and tips, but without Zero's support, I'm stuck!
...and yes, I PM'd Zero today in reply to their message. Nothing heard.
Cheers,
- Fred
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Thanks, Tom.
I brought the bike to the shop in March. Here in Colorado, that's not the busy time. 8)
The bike has two 3kW chargers (Premium version, 6kW charging), plus the ChargeTank (12kW total). I don't know who makes the chargers.
If I plug the bike in, it wakes up, the charge fans come on, no charge current appears (0.0kW), and after a few seconds, the charge fans wind down.
How would I diagnose this?
Thanks for your pointers and tips, but without Zero's support, I'm stuck!
...and yes, I PM'd Zero today in reply to their message. Nothing heard.
Cheers,
- Fred
I would do some experimentation, first, I would simply take a good look at everything with my eyes. Connectors and such. And if that didn't get me anywhere, I would do things such as disconnect the charge tank cable and see if anything changes when I try to charge. And just by looking, you may find a company name showing who built the chargers and then perhaps deal with them direct.
You have nothing to lose and perhaps a lot to gain.
I will give you a real life example of what happened to me when I first purchased my Energica. And I know I posted about this in this forum a few years ago.
I first charged it here in Auburn with no hassle at all. All was fine. I ride the bike to my Reno house (99.0 miles) one CCS charge on the way, all was fine.
I get to Reno, use the same type type of Tesla Wall Connector with the same Tesla-Tap that I keep with the bike. It would NOT charge and my SOC was low. I did everything the same as here in Auburn, the only thing that was different was the Tesla Wall Connector, but was the exact same model as here. I could still charge my Zero with it at 6 KW using external chargers. After checking all the dip switches in the Tesla Wall Connector and comparing them to here, they were all set the same in both Wall Connectors. But I was able to get a local fast charge then go to a Tesla Destination Charger at a casino and the Energica charged perfectly there with the same Tesla Tap.
But in Reno, where it did NOT work with my Energica (but okay on my Zeros) , I put everything back together and tried it again. It then worked perfectly on my Energica and never gave a problem again. I assume perhaps a pinched wire or something like that, but I did NOT notice it when inside the unit. I really have no idea what I did to fix it, but now it has worked with my Energica every time for the last three years.
And BTW, I have no shop manual for my Tesla Wall Connector. Perhaps you could have the same type of luck. If I didn't take my Reno Tesla Wall Connector apart, it still would not work, most likely.
So if something doesn't work, you could even fix it by accident by taking apart as much as you can and putting it all back. But you have to at least try by looking at things.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Hi Fredx,
I recently - about a month and a half ago - had the exact same problem. Only difference was that I have no Chargetank. Brought it to my dealer where Zero remotely diagnosed the bike. It seems both 3kw chargers had "lost their serial number" and in typical Zero fashion they could not tell me how or why this happened.
This caused the bike to stop communicating with the chargers over the CANbus.
They replaced both chargers and now everything is ok (with charging).
I can tell that with the old charges I always got an error 37 when disconnecting my chargelead. now with the new chargers this is no longer the case.
At the moment there are more parts replaced on my bike than orignal parts (3rd main battery (!), 12V battery, brake rotors, throttle, 2 chargers, ... . 1 year and 2 months of ownership. And yeah it took a long time to replace all these parts. It was roughly about 2 months riding 1-2 months in garage.
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This caused the bike to stop communicating with the chargers over the CANbus.
I assume even that can be caused by a poor connection somewhere.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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CANbus interconnects with the 2 chargers are easily accesible on the SR/S and SR/F platform. They connect to the same loom and a Y splitter is there already to connect a charge tank upgrade.
Connectors and connections where checked. The new chargers used the existing loom and worked instantly. There was communication on the bus with the chargers but no authentication so no charging.
Both of the old chargers developed the "no authentication" problem at the same time?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I got a reply to my PM to Zero on this forum; they now say the MBB needs replacement. They keep telling me to get the current status and updates from the dealer, but the dealer (Grand Prix Motorsports) is unresponsive, typically taking a week or longer to get back to me. This is nuts!
- Fred
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I got a reply to my PM to Zero on this forum; they now say the MBB needs replacement. They keep telling me to get the current status and updates from the dealer, but the dealer (Grand Prix Motorsports) is unresponsive, typically taking a week or longer to get back to me. This is nuts!
- Fred
If that is really the case, you will not be able to repair it yourself anyway. So you would have been wasting your time by listening to me. ;) But at least then you will be a bit more familiar with the bike.
BTW, do you wonder if the dealer is guessing on what is really wrong and simply replacing things until the problem is fixed? I have heard some such stories here before.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I had to pester Grand Prix Motorsports service department for an update. The update is attached, screenshot from the text conversation.
So now they want more money, for a problem that occurred well before the warranty period ran out.
This is all just so amazingly, incredibly bad. I've been riding motorcycles for well over 40 years, and have never had an experience like this.
- Fred
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Apart from the shitty customer service, why is he shouting?
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Apart from the shitty customer service, why is he shouting?
He always types in all-capitals, like a 1943 teletype machine. ::)
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Sometimes I'm glad these people tell me things by text. Here's where they told me on April 6th that parts and labor would be covered by Zero.
Sheesh!
- Fred
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Here's the latest: It took nearly 2 weeks for the new MBB to show up from Zero, and it's broken.
This coming Tuesday marks 14 weeks this bike has been in the service department at Grand Prix Motorsports in Littleton, CO.
- Fred
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15 weeks now. The new MBB arrived last week. Nothing heard from the dealer yet. Sigh...
- Fred
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Hey all, here's my final update and resolution:
After 4 months in the shop at Grand Prix Motorsports in Littleton, Colorado, my 2020 SR/F Premium was finally repaired. That dealership also buys used motorcycles, so I negotiated the sale of the bike to them. After 4 months, all I wanted in the worst way was for this to finally end. I didn't haggle about the low price; I took their check and ran away as fast as I could.
I've been riding motorcycles for more than 40 years, and have never had an experience like this. It's not possible to get a service manual; all Zero motorcycles must be serviced by Zero dealers. I have precisely one Zero dealer within two hours drive of my home. The dealer relies on Zero to diagnose problems remotely from California. Zero typically takes a week or more to simply reply to the dealer, each time. Zero sends replacement parts in such a way that it typically takes a week or two for a part to arrive.
It was not possible for me or anyone other than Zero to diagnose the problem, which apparently was an MBB problem.
Zero verbally chastised me for doing "unauthorized" modifications to my motorcycle, by installing aftermarket LED running lights, louder horns, and the eMoto Design dub-J charging kit. I didn't realize I needed Zero's authorization to modify the bike. Somehow I thought it was my bike...
My 2020 SR/F suffered from problems in rain (throwing codes, Check Engine Light, etc.), in addition to the common problems of front brake pulsing, terribly harsh suspension, etc. The rain problems would always go away after the bike dried out, so there was no way I could get the dealer to see them.
So, with simply the "bike doesn't charge" problem, the bike was in the shop from March until July.
My Yamaha Super Tenere ES has been through rain, sleet, hail, intense sun, deep sand, and more, for nearly 51000 miles. It's been into Mexico three times (it likes tacos!). I have had no problems whatsoever with that bike. My Zero cost far more, and took me a grand total of 9385 miles.
I will never buy a Zero again. When Yamaha produces electric motorcycles, I'll be first in line.
So long, and thanks for all the fish,
- Fred
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Hey all, here's my final update and resolution:
After 4 months in the shop at Grand Prix Motorsports in Littleton, Colorado, my 2020 SR/F Premium was finally repaired. That dealership also buys used motorcycles, so I negotiated the sale of the bike to them. After 4 months, all I wanted in the worst way was for this to finally end. I didn't haggle about the low price; I took their check and ran away as fast as I could.
I've been riding motorcycles for more than 40 years, and have never had an experience like this. It's not possible to get a service manual; all Zero motorcycles must be serviced by Zero dealers. I have precisely one Zero dealer within two hours drive of my home. The dealer relies on Zero to diagnose problems remotely from California. Zero typically takes a week or more to simply reply to the dealer, each time. Zero sends replacement parts in such a way that it typically takes a week or two for a part to arrive.
It was not possible for me or anyone other than Zero to diagnose the problem, which apparently was an MBB problem.
Zero verbally chastised me for doing "unauthorized" modifications to my motorcycle, by installing aftermarket LED running lights, louder horns, and the eMoto Design dub-J charging kit. I didn't realize I needed Zero's authorization to modify the bike. Somehow I thought it was my bike...
My 2020 SR/F suffered from problems in rain (throwing codes, Check Engine Light, etc.), in addition to the common problems of front brake pulsing, terribly harsh suspension, etc. The rain problems would always go away after the bike dried out, so there was no way I could get the dealer to see them.
So, with simply the "bike doesn't charge" problem, the bike was in the shop from March until July.
My Yamaha Super Tenere ES has been through rain, sleet, hail, intense sun, deep sand, and more, for nearly 51000 miles. It's been into Mexico three times (it likes tacos!). I have had no problems whatsoever with that bike. My Zero cost far more, and took me a grand total of 9385 miles.
I will never buy a Zero again. When Yamaha produces electric motorcycles, I'll be first in line.
So long, and thanks for all the fish,
- Fred
Wow, so sad to hear about your experience.
On the flip-side I'm kind of impressed you got 9385 miles out of the SR/F ;D
I'm only at 1/3 of that mileage and I really love the bile now on v23 FW.
Figuring my days are numbered with it, but it's still my favorite motorcycle, of all I've owned.
If it ever ends up in a Dealer, I'll probably write it off then.
With your issues, I do wonder if it's the dealers letting Zero down, or Zero letting the dealers down.
I know the dealers are not capable of properly servicing the Zeros, so they definitely need better support, If Zero expects to save its brands reputation.
There are definitely better Electric Motorcycles on the way, so you did the right thing to get out of yours.