ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: travbee on April 29, 2021, 11:57:07 PM
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https://www.evcomponents.com/elcon-tc-hk-j-3300w-charger.html
I was looking at one of these chargers.
You need to basically tell them how to set it up for you, in order for it to work with our zeros.
Can someone help me fill out the blanks on the form?
I basically want to be able to use this, plus the onboard slow charger, to get faster charger while on the go.
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Hey,
sure, I recently bought from them. It took very long to deliver, keep that in mind.
I recommend you just email them directly, instead of filling out the form. Tell Michael it's for a Zero bike, he'll know all the neccessary things.
There's a CAN version, which you can control via CAN, but this would require you to build or buy a device to send the CAN messages.
There's an automatic version, that he sets up for your, you just plug it in and it works. Tell him which one you want.
All Zero bikes from 2013 on have: A lithium battery with 28S (cells in series) at about 120Ah.
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Hey,
sure, I recently bought from them. It took very long to deliver, keep that in mind.
I recommend you just email them directly, instead of filling out the form. Tell Michael it's for a Zero bike, he'll know all the neccessary things.
There's a CAN version, which you can control via CAN, but this would require you to build or buy a device to send the CAN messages.
There's an automatic version, that he sets up for your, you just plug it in and it works. Tell him which one you want.
All Zero bikes from 2013 on have: A lithium battery with 28S (cells in series) at about 120Ah.
Thank you so much!
Please email me what you got?
travisjbeers @ gmail.com
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https://www.evcomponents.com/elcon-tc-hk-j-3300w-charger.html (https://www.evcomponents.com/elcon-tc-hk-j-3300w-charger.html)
I was looking at one of these chargers.
You need to basically tell them how to set it up for you, in order for it to work with our zeros.
Can someone help me fill out the blanks on the form?
I basically want to be able to use this, plus the onboard slow charger, to get faster charger while on the go.
Why not buy it direct from Elcon? (https://www.elconchargers.com/contact_us.html)They already know how to program them. A guy by the same of Sayyad (from Pakistan) programs them for Elcon. He knows me. I have gone on several rides with him. He owns a HD Livewire.
He programmed up my four Zero chargers.
-Don- Reno, NV
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https://www.evcomponents.com/elcon-tc-hk-j-3300w-charger.html (https://www.evcomponents.com/elcon-tc-hk-j-3300w-charger.html)
I was looking at one of these chargers.
You need to basically tell them how to set it up for you, in order for it to work with our zeros.
Can someone help me fill out the blanks on the form?
I basically want to be able to use this, plus the onboard slow charger, to get faster charger while on the go.
Why not buy it direct from Elcon? (https://www.elconchargers.com/contact_us.html)They already know how to program them. A guy by the same of Sayyad (from Pakistan) programs them for Elcon. He knows me. I have gone on several rides with him. He owns a HD Livewire.
He programmed up my four Zero chargers.
-Don- Reno, NV
I think this is a great idea.
I'll email them now!
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I just filled out the form and mentioned Sayyad.
Anyone have experience with the 6.6kw one?
Is it too big to bring along?
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I just filled out the form and mentioned Sayyad.
Anyone have experience with the 6.6kw one?
Is it too big to bring along?
I am not sure about the 6.6kw one, as I never have seen it, but I would guess it would be too large.
I carry an Elcon 3.3KW in each Zero sidebag and I can charge my 2017 SR up to 8KW on the road (ten KW at home). There is some room left over with the 3.3KW chargers in each side bag, but not much and they are close to the weight limit for each as it is.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I think this is a great idea.
I'll email them now!
I have mine to NOT use Canbus. Makes it easier to set up. This disadvantage is that they will stop charging at 95% SOC and from there, the OBC will finish the job.
The last 5% will slow down a lot either way and I doubt if you would even notice the difference when you want to charge to full 100% SOC.
The nice thing about that last 5%, is it gives me the time to put the Elcons back in my sidebags as the bike is still charging with the OBC.
I have mine wired direct to the motor controller battery inputs.
BTW, you probably want to read this. (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=8298.30)
-Don- Reno, NV
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hello!
you can read my post from a few weeks ago:
https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10995.0
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Side question about this, if you have two of these 3.3kw chargers, do you plug them on the bike via one anderson connector and an Y adapter or are there two available connectors on the bike ?
is there a power/current limit on these connectors and the wiring between them and the battery ?
lots of nice information in this thread anyway, I'm really tempted to add one or two of these to the charge tank...
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nice, thanks !
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There is one brown anderson plug on the bike. You need a Y-cable before that:)
the anderson can handle the ~100A that the battery can take maximum.
Ooooh, exploded charge fuses! This is gonna be fun where's my popcorn
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Ooooh, exploded charge fuses!
How many amps is that charge fuse? Did I hear it's in a cable that is almost impossible to get to?
But since it is designed for as many as four ~1 KW watt Delta Q's, I would not want to go over 4 KW of charging using that connector.
I have my Elcons wired directly to the motor controller battery inputs where I know it has to be able to handle very high current. My Elcons for my SR will add up to 6.6 KW to the motor controller there alone, even if I charge at 10 KW also using Delta Q's and the OBC.
-Don- Reno, NV
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It's a thermal 100 amp fuse with a fair amount of insulation around it.
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It's a thermal 100 amp fuse with a fair amount of insulation around it.
That should be good for well more than that 6.6 KW of charging.
6,600 watts divided by 95 VDC (0% SOC)= 69.5 amps
6,600 watts divided by 117 VDC (100% SOC) = 56.4 amps
-Don- Reno, NV
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I removed my comment, maybe I was misinformed that the brown anderson can handle 1C charging.
It handles 6.6kW fine:)
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@DonTom your calculation is correct, but from my experience, the Elcon puts out 32A regardless of the voltage. So if the battery is empty, it still does 32A at the lower voltage, doing less power overall:)
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Correct. Amperage output remains constant until cutback.
The current 14.4 battery pack is 114Ah. I would not run more than two 32A units into the charging harness. There are other ways to deliver power to the bike, though.
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@DonTom your calculation is correct, but from my experience, the Elcon puts out 32A regardless of the voltage. So if the battery is empty, it still does 32A at the lower voltage, doing less power overall:)
Yeah, I forgot about that CC stuff. BTW, at what voltage (or ~SOC) do Zeros change to CV? But that will be even less current.
So two of those 3.3 KW chargers will be 64 amps, still well below that 100 amp rating and pretty much in the middle of the range I mentioned anyway of 56.4 to 69.5 amps.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Correct. Amperage output remains constant until cutback.
The current 14.4 battery pack is 114Ah. I would not run more than two 32A units into the charging harness. There are other ways to deliver power to the bike, though.
Agreed, so I went direct to the motor controller battery terminals as it has to be able to handle a lot of current there, to run the motor. However, I still never exceed that 64 amps to the motor controller. Any additional charging on my SR uses the two Delta Q using the stock method.
I have my "Y" cable permanently attached to the bike, makes it much easier to set up. The most I charge at is ten KW and that is only when home. Closer to 8KW on the road, so I don't have to also find a way to carry the Delta Q's & the 20% difference between the time to charge at 8KW and ten KW isn't worth the trouble.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I think this is a great idea.
I'll email them now!
I have mine to NOT use Canbus. Makes it easier to set up. This disadvantage is that they will stop charging at 95% SOC and from there, the OBC will finish the job.
The last 5% will slow down a lot either way and I doubt if you would even notice the difference when you want to charge to full 100% SOC.
The nice thing about that last 5%, is it gives me the time to put the Elcons back in my sidebags as the bike is still charging with the OBC.
I have mine wired direct to the motor controller battery inputs.
BTW, you probably want to read this. (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=8298.30)
-Don- Reno, NV
Don did you have to request it to NOT use CANBUS?
Also what is the electrical INPUT?
J plug? US style 220 like a dryer outlet?
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The canbus protocols of the chargers and the Zero are not directly compatible, so getting the charger without the requirement is probably better.
The chargers will work on either 120 or 240v. Elcon can supply them with a NEMA 5-15P or 6-20P, or probably another option.
To use it with a J-1772, you'll need some sort of adapter. I got one from https://www.tucsonev.com/.
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Don did you have to request it to NOT use CANBUS?
Also what is the electrical INPUT?
J plug? US style 220 like a dryer outlet?
I was asked if I wanted it to be CANBUS compatible, which is more trouble than it is worth, IMO. So I said no. And IIRC, there has to be an interface to use CANBUS. I am sure NVetter can tell you what that consists of. I am very happy with the very simple way all four of my Elcons work. I have two older style Elcon chargers for my DS. They are less power (2.5KW each) and heavier and larger than the newer 3.3 KWs.
To me, that last 5% slowdown is almost meaningless. Gives me time to put everything away if I want to charge to 100% from the OBC.
They come with a 120 VAC plug. You will have to convert or change that. I use these 120 VAC plugs with 240 VAC with adapters I made myself to go to a 14-50P. I use one of these (https://www.harborfreight.com/2-ft-triple-tap-3-outlet-extension-cord-56764.html)and cut the 120 VAC plug off and installed a 14-50P there. Works fine, nothing overheats or anything.
A 14-50R is different than a drier plug.
I have mine set up to charge from perhaps every way possible, even some of the weirdest AC outlets there are such as the one here. (https://www.plugshare.com/location/94986)
If you want to charge from J-1772 you will need an adapter for that as well. And then there are Tesla Destination stations where I use a Tesla-Tap.
Tell me exactly what you want to charge from and I can tell you what to do, if you're in the USA.
-Don- Reno, NV
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If I have 2 Elcon TC HK-J's plugged into the accessory charging port and I plug a J-1772 into my 2.5 kW charge tank, will it try to charge at 10.4 kW (2.5 CT + 1.3 OBC + 6.6 HK-J's) or still just 3.8?
In other words, is there a way to set it up so I only need my bike's J-plug and not any adapters for the HK-J's?
P.S. I know 10.4 kW will trip the breakers on most J-stations, I'm just trying to understand know the system works.
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If I have 2 Elcon TC HK-J's plugged into the accessory charging port and I plug a J-1772 into my 2.5 kW charge tank, will it try to charge at 10.4 kW (2.5 CT + 1.3 OBC + 6.6 HK-J's) or still just 3.8?
In other words, is there a way to set it up so I only need my bike's J-plug and not any adapters for the HK-J's?
P.S. I know 10.4 kW will trip the breakers on most J-stations, I'm just trying to understand know the system works.
I would expect the full 10.4 KW.
It would take a modification at your charge tank J- inlet, and I have no idea how to do such as I have never seen how the charge tanks are wired in. But more than likely, it can be done.
All you need to do is get the 240 VAC input from the charge tank to the external chargers 120 VAC plugs. Seems simple enough.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Don did you have to request it to NOT use CANBUS?
Also what is the electrical INPUT?
J plug? US style 220 like a dryer outlet?
I was asked if I wanted it to be CANBUS compatible, which is more trouble than it is worth, IMO. So I said no. And IIRC, there has to be an interface to use CANBUS. I am sure NVetter can tell you what that consists of. I am very happy with the very simple way all four of my Elcons work. I have two older style Elcon chargers for my DS. They are less power (2.5KW each) and heavier and larger than the newer 3.3 KWs.
To me, that last 5% slowdown is almost meaningless. Gives me time to put everything away if I want to charge to 100% from the OBC.
They come with a 120 VAC plug. You will have to convert or change that. I use these 120 VAC plugs with 240 VAC with adapters I made myself to go to a 14-50P. I use one of these (https://www.harborfreight.com/2-ft-triple-tap-3-outlet-extension-cord-56764.html)and cut the 120 VAC plug off and installed a 14-50P there. Works fine, nothing overheats or anything.
A 14-50R is different than a drier plug.
I have mine set up to charge from perhaps every way possible, even some of the weirdest AC outlets there are such as the one here. (https://www.plugshare.com/location/94986)
If you want to charge from J-1772 you will need an adapter for that as well. And then there are Tesla Destination stations where I use a Tesla-Tap.
Tell me exactly what you want to charge from and I can tell you what to do, if you're in the USA.
-Don- Reno, NV
Don SUPER helpful.
My end goal is to be able to bring one or two Elcons with me to fast charge, because I think I want to add the Power Tank.
Are most charge stations J plug? I have never charged at a public charge station with anything.
So basically I need one or two Elcons. Ill start with one. An adapter from TusconEV? and I should be good to go. At home I can add a breaker and outlet directly to my box outside in my workshop for testing and fast charging at home.
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Don SUPER helpful.
My end goal is to be able to bring one or two Elcons with me to fast charge, because I think I want to add the Power Tank.
Are most charge stations J plug? I have never charged at a public charge station with anything.
So basically I need one or two Elcons. Ill start with one. An adapter from TusconEV? and I should be good to go. At home I can add a breaker and outlet directly to my box outside in my workshop for testing and fast charging at home.
Which year and model bike are you doing this on?
Check Plugshare (https://www.plugshare.com/) for the type of charge stations most common in the area that you will be charging. It varies by location. Become a member (free) and learn how to use it. But if you have a Zero, you will be looking for J-1772 and 240 VAC outlets, sometimes 120 VAC will do.
If you use two Elcons in parallel, they have to both be started near the same time (perhaps within a minute or so). I never found this to be an issue, but I am letting you know so you do not wonder why the 2nd one will not work after it is added to the other that has been working for 20 minutes. If you do need to do such, simply turn them all off for a few seconds and all on again at the same time. However, do NOT do such when at 80% or above SOC. I discovered the hard way that the Zero BMS will drop the charge to around two KW when STARTED above 80%. A normal charge to past 80% does NOT have such an issue. This can be confusing, so I learned to start no charges above 2 KW when above 80% SOC. That may not be an exact SOC number, but is close.
If you are adding these chargers to a SR or DS like mine, you probably want the "3 x 5-15R (short)" from Tucson EV. (https://tucsonev.com/)
That means you still will need to use your AC cord for the OBC. However, you can change that one connector from Tucson EV. The guy there will do custom work, just tell him what you want. I think it's a one man operation--who works from home.
You probably want one to be a C-19 so you will not need to use your AC cord.
I had his address and I went by his place in Tucson during an RV trip a couple of years ago, but I did NOT try to meet him. Sometimes his orders will take a while, but his quality adapters is the best you will find anywhere. Makes the ones Zero sells seem like an expensive piece of junk.
-Don- Reno, NV
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...I have mine set up to charge from perhaps every way possible, even some of the weirdest AC outlets there are such as the one here... (https://www.plugshare.com/location/94986)
Aside: That's extra awesome finding and using a CS6369 to recharge EV moto. Dug through search engine a little and found a helpful chart:
(https://i.imgur.com/gmrtKGS.png)
California Standard 50A Reference Chart (https://www.stayonline.com/product-resources/reference-california-standard.asp) (Source: stayonline.com)
""A quarter turn locks these connectors in place to remain secure in high-vibration applications and prevent accidental disconnection. They are not compatible with NEMA configurations.
Styles A, B, C, and D are also known as California Standard plugs, sockets, and receptacles. Plugs have one slot to accept a grounding pin; sockets and receptacles have one grounding pin.
Receptacles fit standard wall plates (not included).""
(source: McMASTER-CARR Non-NEMA Turn-Lock Connectors (https://www.mcmaster.com/california-standard-plugs/))
The mating adapter to look for in the aforementioned weird AC outlet would be CS6365 Locking Plug to NEMA 14-50R Female Connector and several are available sold for less than the cost of parts to DIY.
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Newbie here. Glad to find this place. I have a 2020 DSR. Looking for a better setup to utilize my Anderson port for Double J plugging on the road (I have a charge tank). I picked up a quiq charger and can get to 8kw with the on board charger in tandem with the quit and charge tank. I found out about the Elcon 3.3kw and have been reading up. I think that will be a better setup for using a second j plug vs the quiq. I have been in contact with Sayeed at Elcon. It sounds like the AC input is a regular plug for the US. The DC output to the bike needs an adapter. The one that comes out of the elcon is a SB-50, is there an adapter for that type of plug to go to the anderson port on the S/DS/SR/DSR ? Thanks!
sv
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SBS75X BRN
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The one that comes out of the elcon is a SB-50, is there an adapter for that type of plug to go to the anderson port on the S/DS/SR/DSR ? Thanks!
I doubt it. But you have two choices. Make your own adapter or use the SB50 as is and wire your own in to the battery contacts on your motor controller.
But either way, you will need a hydraulic crimping tool. (https://www.harborfreight.com/hydraulic-wire-crimping-tool-66150.html)
And to use the SB50, you can buy them here (https://www.delcity.net/catalogdetails?item=5633). I cannot remember if they come with the contacts, if not, you will need these. (https://www.alliedelec.com/product/anderson-power-products/1339g2-bk/70162110/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA&scid=scbplp70162110&sc_intid=70162110&msclkid=77c7413751201cc8c5d121a730c068b0&gclid=COy0nc6xrvACFaU1rQYd5QgGiA&gclsrc=ds)
-Don- Reno, NV
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Don - pics / explanation as to how you have your Elcon connected?
Did you cut the end off make a connector that goes right to the motor lugs?
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The one that comes out of the elcon is a SB-50, is there an adapter for that type of plug to go to the anderson port on the S/DS/SR/DSR ? Thanks!
I doubt it. But you have two choices. Make your own adapter or use the SB50 as is and wire your own in to the battery contacts on your motor controller.
But either way, you will need a hydraulic crimping tool. (https://www.harborfreight.com/hydraulic-wire-crimping-tool-66150.html)
Excellent info thank you. Do you happen to know of any good videos to get me started? I imagine I can learn from that. The crimper tool doesn't look too complex. Like trav asked above, do/did you just snip off the SB50 and connect the SBS75X?
And to use the SB50, you can buy them here (https://www.delcity.net/catalogdetails?item=5633). I cannot remember if they come with the contacts, if not, you will need these. (https://www.alliedelec.com/product/anderson-power-products/1339g2-bk/70162110/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA&scid=scbplp70162110&sc_intid=70162110&msclkid=77c7413751201cc8c5d121a730c068b0&gclid=COy0nc6xrvACFaU1rQYd5QgGiA&gclsrc=ds)
-Don- Reno, NV
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Excellent info thank you. Do you happen to know of any good videos to get me started? I imagine I can learn from that. The crimper tool doesn't look too complex. Like trav asked above, do/did you just snip off the SB50 and connect the SBS75X?
Best to NOT touch the SBS75X. You may want to use it someday with DelatQ chargers along with your other chargers, like I sometimes do and charge my SR at 10KW.
I wired in my own SB50 connectors, two of them, for two Elcons, direct to the battery contacts on top of the motor controller. You will see the heat sink fins, just behind the rear shock as you look up to the bottom of the rear fender. That is the motor controller.
Take off your seat and find its top. You will see five bolts on top. Three go to the motor and two are to the battery and are marked with "-" and "+". That is the best way to do it. Connect you SB50 wires to those two. I put a 30 amp fuse in series with each positive lead, more to protect the bike in case of a very unlikely dead short. Be sure the key is out and NOT charging when you work on the bike. High voltage there if contactor is closed.
Be sure to use the OBC with your Elcons so you can remove your key while charging.
On both of my Zeros, I ran two wires each from the above terminals to two SB50's that I mounted next to the passenger foot peg.
You want the SB 50's mounted close to your OBC inlet for the J-1772 adapter.
The stock output cable on the Elcons will barely reach these. So I made SB50 extensions that are around two feet long, makes it a lot easier to use, but not really necessary. I used it for several weeks before I made extensions for my Elcons that I keep with the chargers.
See attached for my two SB50's location. The red and black wires there go to the motor controller battery terminals. Not a difficult job.
Do NOT use thinner wires than I am using. That gauge or thicker is fine per each 3.3 KW charger.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Super super helpful.
Thank you Don.
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I'll throw a warning in here that if you touch the controller bolts in any way, make sure they're torqued to correct spec with a torque wrench.
Last month we had a guy mess with those and burn his bike to the ground. Undertorqued they can cause arcing and fire. Overtorqued they cause controller damage and fire. Goldilocks of bolts. Expensive lesson too. Those controller bolts are one of the most likely reasons a Zero is catching fire.
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I'll throw a warning in here that if you touch the controller bolts in any way, make sure they're torqued to correct spec with a torque wrench.
Last month we had a guy mess with those and burn his bike to the ground. Undertorqued they can cause arcing and fire. Overtorqued they cause controller damage and fire. Goldilocks of bolts. Expensive lesson too. Those controller bolts are one of the most likely reasons a Zero is catching fire.
or the useless silicon wafers inside the sevcon wear out causing a short and burn the bike down
What evidence do you have that bolts being over or under-torqued caused a fire?
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or the useless silicon wafers inside the sevcon wear out causing a short and burn the bike down
What evidence do you have that bolts being over or under-torqued caused a fire?
I wondered the same. I didn't use a torque wrench on my Sevcon (AKA motor Controller) bolts and I don't even know if there is a published spec on such.
But common sense will get me close enough, IMO. And I did my SR a couple of years ago, my DS last year.
-Don- Reno, NV
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...What evidence do you have that bolts being over or under-torqued caused a fire?
Probably the fire was the evidence of a fire. Just a guess. Under-torque, run some current, hit with a FLIR camera. To verify that we would need to know where to find the torque spec though? Easier to avoid liability to say "don't do this" instead of "list of torque spec (that we know of)".
While we're derailing the topic recklessly, donate today: https://www.gofundme.com/f/lets-get-right-to-repair-passed
Not that it's been my experience anyone who burns down their bike is generally concerned with using a calibrated torque wrench...
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So, I have no intention of adding an SB50 directly to the bike. I'd be much more comfortable making a cable/adapter. I'm assuming I'll need 1 SB50, 4 of those connectors, and an SBS75X, plus some 6 guage wire, maybe 4 feet or so. Thoughts?
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I'll throw a warning in here that if you touch the controller bolts in any way, make sure they're torqued to correct spec with a torque wrench.
Last month we had a guy mess with those and burn his bike to the ground. Undertorqued they can cause arcing and fire. Overtorqued they cause controller damage and fire. Goldilocks of bolts. Expensive lesson too. Those controller bolts are one of the most likely reasons a Zero is catching fire.
or the useless silicon wafers inside the sevcon wear out causing a short and burn the bike down
What evidence do you have that bolts being over or under-torqued caused a fire?
Well Zero actually investigates fires, and I had a nice chat with the investigator. It's pretty easy to tell where the fire originates, and this one came right from controller bolt interface. And its not the first I've seen :) Owner had also installed third party charger leads there too recently
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Not really sure why you appear to dislike the sevcon, and think its likely to spontaneously combust.
If anyone needs the torque values for those bolts, I am happy to provide, I just need year and model. Zero will probably tell you to if you call and ask nicely.
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I'll throw a warning in here that if you touch the controller bolts in any way, make sure they're torqued to correct spec with a torque wrench.
Last month we had a guy mess with those and burn his bike to the ground. Undertorqued they can cause arcing and fire. Overtorqued they cause controller damage and fire. Goldilocks of bolts. Expensive lesson too. Those controller bolts are one of the most likely reasons a Zero is catching fire.
or the useless silicon wafers inside the sevcon wear out causing a short and burn the bike down
What evidence do you have that bolts being over or under-torqued caused a fire?
Well Zero actually investigates fires, and I had a nice chat with the investigator. It's pretty easy to tell where the fire originates, and this one came right from controller bolt interface. And its not the first I've seen :) Owner had also installed third party charger leads there too recently
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Not really sure why you appear to dislike the sevcon, and think its likely to spontaneously combust.
If anyone needs the torque values for those bolts, I am happy to provide, I just need year and model. Zero will probably tell you to if you call and ask nicely.
Would love values for 2020 DSR.
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Here you go for a 2020DSR:
Brushless Motor Controller Cable Bolt 12 N•m 9 lb ft
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Well Zero actually investigates fires, and I had a nice chat with the investigator. It's pretty easy to tell where the fire originates, and this one came right from controller bolt interface. And its not the first I've seen :) Owner had also installed third party charger leads there too recently
How recent before the fire? And when did it happen, when riding, when charging?
And were the bolts too loose or too tight? I am going to guess loose. There is very high current there especially while riding which would be one very large spark.
Anyway, both of my bikes have been fine and for quite a while with the added cables.
-Don- Reno, NV
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About a week. While riding :( The guess was loose, but that's harder to tell, not much was left of the area except some slag. The heat required to melt the bolt and the surrounding area must have been intense.
There's nothing unsafe about having charger cables added there, as long as the crimps and wire are solid, the connection is good, and the torque to the controller is correct.
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Here you go for a 2020DSR:
Brushless Motor Controller Cable Bolt 12 N•m 9 lb ft
Nice. 8) You're awesome.
And were the bolts too loose or too tight? I am going to guess loose. There is very high current there especially while riding which would be one very large spark....
Over-tightening a threaded DC terminal elongates the bolt and reduces surface area on the threaded mating surfaces, increasing resistance. I too thought it was the other way around and had to be corrected by an actual engineer. If the terminal was instead a chunky tab of conducting material with a through-hole (or bus bar with a stud) then yes you would want as much clamping force as you could get. Having connections be too loose is not better-or-worse than too tight, one is going to fail with use and the other with time.
About a week. While riding :( The guess was loose, but that's harder to tell, not much was left of the area except some slag. The heat required to melt the bolt and the surrounding area must have been intense.
There's nothing unsafe about having charger cables added there, as long as the crimps and wire are solid, the connection is good, and the torque to the controller is correct.
Yep. For HV DC solar home energy battery bus bars I wouldn't go any more than 3 lug connections to any single terminal stud: One down, one up, one up. Even then there's unequal current paths and it is measurable under load. I'm suspicious about stacking more than 2 lugs on the SEVCON motor controller... the stacking order and as you remind us the torque are critical to safety. I would (and have) installed to the motor controller terminals but nobody wants the liability of recommending this to others. So let me now just repeat none of this is advice what you should do, just what you can do if you understand the risk. Just cranking down as tight as you can by "arm feel" is not the way to do it.
So, I have no intention of adding an SB50 directly to the bike. I'd be much more comfortable making a cable/adapter. I'm assuming I'll need 1 SB50, 4 of those connectors, and an SBS75X, plus some 6 guage wire, maybe 4 feet or so. Thoughts?
You need different contacts each for SB series and for SBS series, they are different length shells. High-quality 6-awg fine stranded wire should be alright up to 10-ft and 120% of the 75A rating of SBS75X shell in open air. I recommend CobraFlex X-Flex (the distributor here in the Reno/Sparks NV USA area that I use is Titan Wire & Cable) - you can drop down to 8-awg or even 10-awg with the X-Flex 150 series for weight savings at the trade-off of some loss in efficiency and safety margin, or even the normal X-Flex if your target is 32A charging rate, but note that the existing safety fuses may not prevent an electrical fire in the event of a short circuit on lesser-rated wiring.
See:
Anderson Power datasheet SBS (https://www.andersonpower.com/content/dam/app/ecommerce/product-pdfs/SBS-50/ds-sbs.pdf)
Anderson Power datasheet SB50 (https://www.andersonpower.com/content/dam/app/ecommerce/product-pdfs/SB50/ds-sb50.pdf)
The way charging harness fuses are done is to use a fuse with through-hole tabs, bolt them inline to the cable, and glue-lined double-wall heatshrink over the fuse assembly. There are also non-serviceable fuses on the ZForce battery modules.
Do not solder anything. Always crimp. Solder can and will melt causing serious problems.
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So in summary, if you want an off board charger to supplement the OBC you have at least 3 options: (? means I'm not sure)
1. From your Zero Dealer: QuickQ, 1KW either 110/220v, correct Anderson connector, $600.
2. EV Components: ELCON TC HK-J3300W, 1.6 KW @ 110v, 3.3 KW @ 220v, need Anderson adapter?, $475 + shipping from China?
3. Elcon: ELCON HK-J-H132-32, 1.6 KW @ 110v, 3.3 KW @ 220v, need Anderson connector adapter, $750 + shipping from California.
I am getting option 3, now looking where to get/make adapter without buying more tools.
I have a 2014 SR with a new 14.4 battery pack.
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By the way thanks to everyone here for this discussion, very informative.
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I believe your local Solar System installer probably sells/can make the adapter if you bring them the parts.
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now looking where to get/make adapter without buying more tools.
If you find something please post it. I tried to go that route but ended up getting a manual crimper (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MVE48Z6) for the contacts.
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I would definitely get a crimper.
For the single 3.3kw one I used 10 gauge wire, mainly because thats the biggest wire a single pin on the TC HK-J will support with the quick disconnect connector they come with. I have 4ft of wire and it gets warm charging with 32 amps. I probably should have ran 2 for the + and 2 for the - into 8 gauge connectors.. but I got lazy.
I got my connector here:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Anderson-Power-Products/SBS75XBRN?qs=cCJXSq33DMG1HrTqpEFwng%3D%3D
and the 8 gauge pin here: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Anderson-Power-Products/1339g5-bk?qs=yoCgdRjoRtHZTFPODnlH9w%3D%3D
I personally went with a can enabled charger and am glad I did. It wasnt too bad writing code for an arduino to control it with a canbus module, and I can control charge rate and max voltage very easily. I would share the code on here, but its kinda messy at the moment.
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Over-tightening a threaded DC terminal elongates the bolt and reduces surface area on the threaded mating surfaces, increasing resistance.
I wouldn't think the .01 ohm or so difference would be much of an issue. But OTOH, the current is so high there that it could heat up a little.
Now as long as the fire doesn't happen while I am riding . . .which is when the current draw is the very highest.
But it's been okay for a couple of years on my SR, so I am not going to worry about it. But if anything, I probably overtightened them, because I didn't know about the spec but I did know I don't want them to come loose.
I assume using lock-tite on those bolts would also increase the resistance, so that would not be good idea either.
-Don- Reno, NV
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About a week. While riding :( The guess was loose, but that's harder to tell, not much was left of the area except some slag. The heat required to melt the bolt and the surrounding area must have been intense.
There's nothing unsafe about having charger cables added there, as long as the crimps and wire are solid, the connection is good, and the torque to the controller is correct.
Did the fire cause any burns to the rider? My guess would also be loose, causing large sparks under load.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Nope, as with most Zero fires I've seen, the rider tends to get off when the bike starts smoking heavily.
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Nope, as with most Zero fires I've seen, the rider tends to get off when the bike starts smoking heavily.
Glad to know that it gives time to get off! I assume these fires are rather rare but also sometimes even happens when work is NOT done on the bike.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Sure, the 2012 bike recall was caused by a few of those. Of the couple I've seen outside that, they were both caused by controller bolt tightening issues. Zeros really don't seem to catch fire all that often.
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I have a few more questions about these chargers:
Is there a recommended distributor in EU ?
Are the dimensions available ? on the Elcon website, the picture is so low-res that I cant make the figures
On the said picture, the charger seems to have fixation feet adding a lot of length, are they removable ?
thanks, I'm really tempted to add one to my setup, but I have to figure how to add it on the bike. I'm afraid the side-case is the only clean option.
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I have a few more questions about these chargers:
Is there a recommended distributor in EU ?
Are the dimensions available ? on the Elcon website, the picture is so low-res that I cant make the figures
On the said picture, the charger seems to have fixation feet adding a lot of length, are they removable ?
thanks, I'm really tempted to add one to my setup, but I have to figure how to add it on the bike. I'm afraid the side-case is the only clean option.
They do come with extra brackets that I removed. I also made an extension cable for each DC output. They are very short for the DC out and long for the AC in. I also made the AC cord much shorter. Both cables on the chargers are the opposite length from what we need.
-Don- Auburn, CA