ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Harley LiveWire Forum => Topic started by: DonTom on March 09, 2021, 04:50:56 AM
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In many if not most countries, the year of a new vehicle is the year you buy it. The USA is probably the exception, so what they are telling us now in Australia about the 2021 model is probably the 2022 LW.
But more weight, less power. Does that mean much better range? Something is up. It could be a larger battery. Or perhaps true level two charging.
See here. (https://www.motorcycle.com/mini-features/2021-harley-davidson-livewire-adds-weight-loses-power.html)
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Or maybe liquid cooling for faster DC charging?
It's now limited to about 12kW correct?
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Or maybe liquid cooling for faster DC charging?
It's now limited to about 12kW correct?
Yeah, my Energica charges twice the speed of a LW on CCS. However, IIRC, the HD CCS charge stations can only do 15 KW, so HD would have to update their chargers as well, to allow faster charging. So I kinda doubt that is it.
Besides that, there is no charger in the bike for CCS. So that would mean the battery will be different just to allow the faster charging. I kinda doubt if an electric MC will have liquid battery cooling.
And if the battery is different, it will mean more KWH capacity more than likely, regardless if they go for faster L3 charging.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Or maybe liquid cooling for faster DC charging?
It's now limited to about 12kW correct?
Jesus christ you are ill-informed. The DC charging on the LiveWire could be improved with just a tap of a few buttons. Physically it's set up for the best thermal management in the game. Period. They just dropped the ball on the algorithm and the level 2 charging. If they put a 6.6kW AC onboard charger on and then upped the DC algorithm to do 1.5C to 80% they'd have the best bike on the market. Not even a goddamn question.
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Or maybe liquid cooling for faster DC charging?
It's now limited to about 12kW correct?
Jesus christ you are ill-informed. The DC charging on the LiveWire could be improved with just a tap of a few buttons. Physically it's set up for the best thermal management in the game. Period. They just dropped the ball on the algorithm and the level 2 charging. If they put a 6.6kW AC onboard charger on and then upped the DC algorithm to do 1.5C to 80% they'd have the best bike on the market. Not even a goddamn question.
Aah my bad, still learning..
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Jesus christ you are ill-informed.
Hey, man, don't say the not-nice part. It's not useful.
Where would they put a 6kW charger on it? They didn't exactly leave a ton of room on the bike. And we have no idea what the durability of the cells they chose was. Maybe they can't stand up to long high-C charging. They did have that early fire issue with their granny charger.
-Crissa
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Where would they put a 6kW charger on it?
The bike will probably have a design change. If Zero can figure out how to put 12KW charging on their SR/F and SR/S as they did, no doubt HD can make room for half that amount of charging.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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There's a giant pocket under the seat where they put a Turbocord.
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AC charging doesn't really scream 'stuff me under the seat' so much as 'I think it might set the seat on fire'.
The amount of space Zero devoted to their AC charging is massive compared to the Livewire.
-Crissa
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Weird because the AC charger is under the seat of the Brammos and the Energicas.
Also https://evolveelectrics.com/products/valeo-siemens-6-6kw-200-450vdc-charger?pr_prod_strat=collection_fallback&pr_rec_pid=4370435702882&pr_ref_pid=10027059396&pr_seq=uniform
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I thought that this design would've gone into the SR/* bikes as a design influence from Brian. The controller went under the battery but AC chargers stayed mostly in the tank area. Does it reduce any weight/complexity for the wires?
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I thought that this design would've gone into the SR/* bikes as a design influence from Brian. The controller went under the battery but AC chargers stayed mostly in the tank area. Does it reduce any weight/complexity for the wires?
It 100% does.
Having the battery, inverter and motor packaged designed in a way the minimizes the high voltage wiring saves weight and money.
Recently found this photo of a Livewire powertrain, really cool to try breaking it all down. Looks like they have integrated the AC -> DC (charger) into the CCS port assembly.
Does not appear to have active cooling, might be one of the reasons they limited AC charging to 1kW.
If the design changes to the 2022 bike include higher rate AC charging there will be a lot more heat to dissipate.
(https://i.ibb.co/Z8s86bj/Drive-unit.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zRcRhtM)
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Maybe a fan-and-duct will be able to cope with extra heat?
Cas :)
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Thank you for that pic Demoni.
Speaking only for myself, I have not experienced any range-limited trips on the LW because (a) I plan close rides and (b) I tour on the V-Twin bikes. If the LW was my only bike I'd be really keen on extending range but right now, meh.
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Or liquid cool it with the unit I linked. If we could make space in the tail section of the Energica, up the internal AC fuse, and extend the liquid cooling from the inverter it'd be a hell of a thing.
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Having the battery, inverter and motor packaged designed in a way the minimizes the high voltage wiring saves weight and money.
So that is how HD managed to sell it for only 30K$. ;)
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Jesus christ you are ill-informed. The DC charging on the LiveWire could be improved with just a tap of a few buttons. Physically it's set up for the best thermal management in the game. Period. They just dropped the ball on the algorithm and the level 2 charging. If they put a 6.6kW AC onboard charger on and then upped the DC algorithm to do 1.5C to 80% they'd have the best bike on the market. Not even a goddamn question.
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Aah my bad, still learning..
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Owner of a LW and Energica SS9+ with upgraded suspension. Both are very good, but not exactly comparable. Luggage, easier handling, and for folks like me a more comfortable riding position are Energica plusses vs. the LW. The Energica L2 is kinda weak, and for some reason even weaker on mine - need to get a warranty going on that. 6 kW would be much better than 2. IMO, both look great, if that matters to you. The HD is more of a conversation starter.
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Here is a little bit of news regarding the new LiveWire One (2021 MY?) model that is set to be introduced to the public within about a month from now. I found the information a little confusing so I will let you be the judge of what is going on: https://www.motorcycle.com/mini-features/harley-davidsons-next-electric-motorcycle-is-the-livewire-one.html