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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Auriga on January 28, 2021, 05:26:17 AM
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Firmware v19 for FST bikes has been released to dealers and for OTA update. Since the online FW versions page usually takes a while to update, here are the release notes from our dealer tools:
January 26th, 2021
MY20/MY21 SR/F SR/S
* Improvements and bugfixes for the SOC algorithm
* Bugfixes for battery capacity calculations
* Improvements for charge rate tapering at high charge rate and at high pack temperatures
* Internal logging bugfixes and improvements
* Cruise control disabled if kickstand is down
MY17/18/19/20 MBB Rev 32 BMS Rev 39
* Various bugfixes
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I just installed the BMS Rev 39 onto my 2018 S and it installed within 15 minutes without any issues. However, as usual at the end of the upload you get a message that says that the firmware download failed. All you have to do is to turn the ignition off and then back on and when you check the firmware status again it will show that you are up to date. :)
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From the release notes, this looks promising!! This one should hopefully address all the "Magic charging" issues faced by many and as shown by Brandon and Morgan in their video.
I have also seen very similar issues on my 2018 S and can't wait to try out this update (assuming it's on the fixes are on these bikes too).
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From user Alessandro Caruso on Facebook just now:
"I can confirm that on my sr / f after the update made yesterday the bug of the soc is still present."
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From a different user on FB
Bela Lukacs Jr
Updated SRF last night to 19 no problem. Have charge set to 95% and it actually stopped at 95 instead of 98%. Also did 80 mile round trip to work today and no ‘magic charge’ anymore. It looks as if it is showing exactly what I use now. Got to work with 61 percent, shut it off, and still 61 % when I fired it back up 8 hours later to head home. Got home with 25% left..... I like it so far
It may take some time for the algorithm to adjust, depending on how they did it. Or maybe it doesn't fix everything... Or something else is wrong with his battery.
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Thanks for the update. Updating my "S" as I type this. Hopefully ElectricCowboy and Morgan Vetter get a chance to really shake it down.
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I think that Facebook user Alessandro is reporting an issue that the SoC doesn't correctly report to his phone. Not sure he means the magic charge stuff.
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Just updated my 2018 S, but with temperatures PLUNGING tonight and bitter cold predicted over the weekend followed by frozen precipitation here next week I'm not sure when I'll get a chance to ride again. Battery is currently at 50% so it's good for some prolonged inactivity. With luck temperatures will warm back up into the 30s (that's Fahrenheit for you non-Americans) and the roads will dry up soon...
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I take their release notes to mean nothing notable was released for the non-FST bikes. I could be wrong though
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More specifically there is no firmware update for those bikes as far as I know.
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MVetter, there was an update for my 2018 S. MBB=39 and BMS=32.
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Often when installing the update from the dashboard you don't get notified when it fails. My guess is that those few people now reporting errors just had a failed update. Best to check it with BT convection to your phone then it lists the current and available version. People are way too quick drawing conclusions on FB.
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I tried an update today and it seemed to go smoothly. But when the reboot was complete I got Error Code 8, Firmware Update Failure, and the app still reported version 18 installed. Also, I've never been able to get the app to show when an update is available. When I select Manage Firmware from the app's Performance page it searches and searches (spinning wheel) but never shows anything (I've tried for up to 20 minutes at a time).
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Are you on Android Karl? Mine will also keep spinning on Android never showing a firmware update is available. Same bike, same garage, same network, my iPhone shows the available firmware update. But everytime I attempt installation from the phone it reports an error right away. Updates from bike just seem to install but at the end nothing is updated. So far no luck.
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Yes, I'm on Android. I've discussed the problem with Zero several times, and provided my phone and operating system information, but I've never received a reply as to what is going on or what the fix might be. This seems to be typical Zero customer support.
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To be fair this is par for the course for phone software... generally badly written and laid upon a foundation of crap, and there are literally hundreds of OS variants to deal with. It's likely they literally have no idea why it doesn't work.
Cas :)
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You may be right. My expectations for software are generally high, but that may be because I worked in aerospace for almost 40 years, where the consequences of poorly written software may be fatal (see Boeing 737 MAX 8, among others).
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Are you on Android Karl? Mine will also keep spinning on Android never showing a firmware update is available. Same bike, same garage, same network, my iPhone shows the available firmware update. But everytime I attempt installation from the phone it reports an error right away. Updates from bike just seem to install but at the end nothing is updated. So far no luck.
The updating system works perfectly on my cheap Android phone for my 2018 S. It only takes a few seconds to check for a new firmware update - providing that it has connected with my bike and provided that my phone is receiving my wireless internet signal. However, some times it takes a couple of tries before the Zero app finally connects to the bike via Bluetooth.
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Are you on Android Karl? Mine will also keep spinning on Android never showing a firmware update is available. Same bike, same garage, same network, my iPhone shows the available firmware update. But everytime I attempt installation from the phone it reports an error right away. Updates from bike just seem to install but at the end nothing is updated. So far no luck.
The updating system works perfectly on my cheap Android phone for my 2018 S. It only takes a few seconds to check for a new firmware update - providing that it has connected with my bike and provided that my phone is receiving my wireless internet signal. However, some times it takes a couple of tries before the Zero app finally connects to the bike via Bluetooth.
Same here on my Samsung Galaxy S10. Sometimes it connects immediately, other times it "searches" for several minutes despite the fact the phone is literally SITTING on top of the bike, and I have the bike in "Bluetooth Discover" mode.
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For Richard and Jaime - Your S models are very different from my SR/S; different bike operating systems and different phone apps. The SR/F - SR/S bikes and apps seem to still be going through teething problems that older bikes ave already overcome.
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For Richard and Jaime - Your S models are very different from my SR/S; different bike operating systems and different phone apps. The SR/F - SR/S bikes and apps seem to still be going through teething problems that older bikes ave already overcome.
I am very much aware of that. If I had bought an SR/F or S I would likely be totally confused by the new operating system. I really like simple and I keep my Zero's screen stuck in just one set of display options. I just went for a short ride on my bike and the new firmware hasn't made any difference that I can detect - which is likely a good thing for me.
I might also add that when I ride my daughter's 2014 S with PT I can't tell any difference in the way it runs, compared with my 4-year newer model. The last time that bike had its firmware upgraded was in January 2014. It's range is a little less, but that is about it.
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I have ridden my Zero twice starting out with a full charge at 100% SOC on the display. Since I have installed the BMS version 39 firmware update for my 2018 Zero S I notice that the SOC is now dropping from 100% to 99% within less than a mile after leaving my home. My bike had been traveling two miles before it dropped 1% on the display. The only reason that I can think of for this change is perhaps the new BMS firmware is cutting off the charging at a slightly lower voltage than previously. While the first 1% drops quickly, during the rest of my ride the SOC display remains as before for the same distance and speed.
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The other reason is that the calculation is different. Something simple as when to round can change the display.
-Crissa
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I have ridden my Zero twice starting out with a full charge at 100% SOC on the display. Since I have installed the BMS version 39 firmware update for my 2018 Zero S I notice that the SOC is now dropping from 100% to 99% within less than a mile after leaving my home. My bike had been traveling two miles before it dropped 1% on the display. The only reason that I can think of for this change is perhaps the new BMS firmware is cutting off the charging at a slightly lower voltage than previously. While the first 1% drops quickly, during the rest of my ride the SOC display remains as before for the same distance and speed.
Full charge with cell balancing complete? I have seen this behavior even without the latest software, when the cell balancing has not been complete :)
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I have ridden my Zero twice starting out with a full charge at 100% SOC on the display. Since I have installed the BMS version 39 firmware update for my 2018 Zero S I notice that the SOC is now dropping from 100% to 99% within less than a mile after leaving my home. My bike had been traveling two miles before it dropped 1% on the display. The only reason that I can think of for this change is perhaps the new BMS firmware is cutting off the charging at a slightly lower voltage than previously. While the first 1% drops quickly, during the rest of my ride the SOC display remains as before for the same distance and speed.
There are three ways to be at 100% SOC while charging:
1. Barley at 100% SOC (contactor closed while charging).
2. At the upper end of 100% SOC (contactor still closed).
3. Completely charged at 100% (contactor opens while still connected for charging).
When you hear the click to open the contactor is when you know you're fully charged.
Or when you unplug and do NOT hear the click because the contactor is already open and the battery is fully charged.
IOW, the 100% SOC doesn't always mean fully charged, unless the contactor opens.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I have ridden my Zero twice starting out with a full charge at 100% SOC on the display. Since I have installed the BMS version 39 firmware update for my 2018 Zero S I notice that the SOC is now dropping from 100% to 99% within less than a mile after leaving my home. My bike had been traveling two miles before it dropped 1% on the display. The only reason that I can think of for this change is perhaps the new BMS firmware is cutting off the charging at a slightly lower voltage than previously. While the first 1% drops quickly, during the rest of my ride the SOC display remains as before for the same distance and speed.
There are three ways to be at 100% SOC while charging:
1. Barley at 100% SOC (contactor closed while charging).
2. At the upper end of 100% SOC (contactor still closed).
3. Completely charged at 100% (contactor opens while still connected for charging).
When you hear the click to open the contactor is when you know you're fully charged.
Or when you unplug and do NOT hear the click because the contactor is already open and the battery is fully charged.
IOW, the 100% SOC doesn't always mean fully charged, unless the contactor opens.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Both times I waited (as I always do) until balancing is complete and power draw is reduced to 4 watts on the Kill-A-Watt meter before disconnecting the power cord. If I wait more than 10 minutes before disconnecting the power cord after balancing is complete the green charging light will stay on and the contactor switch will not click off until I cycle the ignition switch on and then off. But if i disconnect the power cord within 10 minutes of when the charger stops drawing power the contactor switch will click off and the green charging light will go off. I might add that this is a feature of the original BMS program on my Zero and has not changed with any of the firmware updates over the past three years. I tried both systems of making sure that the battery pack was fully charged and balanced and achieved the same result of a quick drop from 100% to 99% on the display. ???
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Both times I waited (as I always do) until balancing is complete and power draw is reduced to 4 watts on the Kill-A-Watt meter before disconnecting the power cord. If I wait more than 10 minutes before disconnecting the power cord after balancing is complete the green charging light will stay on and the contactor switch will not click off until I cycle the ignition switch on and then off. But if i disconnect the power cord within 10 minutes of when the charger stops drawing power the contactor switch will click off and the green charging light will go off. I might add that this is a feature of the original BMS program on my Zero and has not changed with any of the firmware updates over the past three years. I tried both systems of making sure that the battery pack was fully charged and balanced and achieved the same result of a quick drop from 100% to 99% on the display. ???
I knew I forgot something, that green light that stays lit but stops blinking between steps 1 and 2, contactor still closed.
BTW, I tried to check my Zeros last night for updates. I can pair with each bike but the Zero app does NOT see the bike when I go to use it. I have noticed before, sometime it works, sometimes it doesn't. What could I be doing wrong? Seems rather flakey, but I am not sure if it's the bike, the Zero app or me :).
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Both times I waited (as I always do) until balancing is complete and power draw is reduced to 4 watts on the Kill-A-Watt meter before disconnecting the power cord. If I wait more than 10 minutes before disconnecting the power cord after balancing is complete the green charging light will stay on and the contactor switch will not click off until I cycle the ignition switch on and then off. But if i disconnect the power cord within 10 minutes of when the charger stops drawing power the contactor switch will click off and the green charging light will go off. I might add that this is a feature of the original BMS program on my Zero and has not changed with any of the firmware updates over the past three years. I tried both systems of making sure that the battery pack was fully charged and balanced and achieved the same result of a quick drop from 100% to 99% on the display. ???
I knew I forgot something, that green light that stays lit but stops blinking between steps 1 and 2, contactor still closed.
BTW, I tried to check my Zeros last night for updates. I can pair with each bike but the Zero app does NOT see the bike when I go to use it. I have noticed before, sometime it works, sometimes it doesn't. What could I be doing wrong? Seems rather flakey, but I am not sure if it's the bike, the Zero app or me :).
-Don- Auburn, CA
Sometimes I have to try a couple of times before my bike is recognized, even though the Bluetooth symbol shows up on the dash. ??? What I usually do is to exit the Zero app with the bike turned on and then enter the app again and it usually grabs my bike the way it is supposed to do. I agree the communication between the bike and the app does seem a bit flaky at times. But so far I have always managed to get it to work. It just takes a couple of tries. ;)
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Bluetooth is famously shit, one of the least usable wireless networking systems around.
Cas :)
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Bluetooth is famously shit, one of the least usable wireless networking systems around.
It's more that, lots of devices have crappy implementation.
-Crissa
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Bluetooth is famously shit, one of the least usable wireless networking systems around.
It's more that, lots of devices have crappy implementation.
-Crissa
This is true, and it's not always a software/programming issue. There are few bluetooth circuits worth a crap. Zero might have used the lowest cost option.
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The combination of software and hardware used seems to have a disproportionately high ratio of duff implementations compared to, say, WiFi.
Cas :)
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The combination of software and hardware used seems to have a disproportionately high ratio of duff implementations compared to, say, WiFi.
Yeah, not really.
WiFi can stumble along because it just straight up requires more power and processing and you aren't expecting it to handshake without your help.
-Crissa
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I installed MBB v32 and BMS v39 on my bike and I do not see any the weird SoC behavior anymore! So far there has been no recalculation of the SoC as far as I could see and when I leave it off for a couple of days it stays the same. All looking good so far..
Also I notice the cell balance is better too (when at any arbitrary SoC) value and it had stayed at about 8mV. I will need to fully charge and test it out again. Curious to see the release notes from Zero for this update.
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My SR/S is on V19 and definitely has the magic charging present. Range on it when driven at 65-70Wh/km is 160km at 100 procent which seems very low to me?
Auriga, do you know if Zero is aware and trying to fix this problem and if this is indeed solely software?
Also how can you check cell balance on the new bikes? App doesn’t show it?