ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => Electric Motorcycle News => Topic started by: Crissa on December 08, 2020, 10:26:02 PM
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[MEDIA=youtube]mwzwEssgqNI[/MEDIA]
Aptera! Only technically a motorcycle like an Arcimoto, but still a really sexy vehicle.
Hard to say more, as a little runabout, this is the way to do it. It should get better miles per watt hour than my motorcycle!
https://www.aptera.us/
-Crissa
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1000 miles of range and it looks like a spaceship?? Sign me UP! ;D
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Weird, I don't know what went wrong with the media tag.
-Crissa
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Unlikely to make it into series production.
It doesn't seem to be meet any desire/need that anyone has (certainly not the 1000mi version, but also goes for the basic 25kWh 250mi version); it's about the size of a Prius, but only a two-seater, so not a good commuter or family-compatible daily driver, given the price.
Ditto on longer trips.
Even for the base model, since it doesn't qualify for the Federal EV car incentive, it's more expensive than a 40kWh Leaf, and about the same as a Ioniq EV, and more expensive than the current actual prices for the Bolt.
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drag coefficient (Cd) of 0.13
Amazing!
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Have we had what is a motorcycle and is there a max weight discussion on here?
Would you buy one without testing it out in blowing rain or at least strong winds. My guess is that thing would be stopped (by law enforcement of some sort) on I95 on a bridge in New Jersey during windy conditions.
I can't tell if it has rounded tires like a motorcycle (two wheels in a line) that leans or the flat bottom kind for three wheeled "motorcycles" that don't lean. There is some 4 wheeled creation that the wheels tilt but I doubt that is a motorcycle.
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A promo video for those interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNjUdTJjiNk
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I'll go for a how it is made video.
What am I looking at? Does it have hub motors or a drive shaft up high? Wonder how the front wheels flex over bumps, where are the pivots and the shock is way inboard.
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Unlikely to make it into series production.
I suppose, aside from... they already have a factory, a prototype, and a delivery schedule for next year.
I showed this on the Cybertruck forum and several guys jumped for it. It's the runabout that needs no fuel or introduction.
-Crissa
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I'll go for a how it is made video.
What am I looking at? Does it have hub motors or a drive shaft up high? Wonder how the front wheels flex over bumps, where are the pivots and the shock is way inboard.
Pretty sure those are hub motors, the bits that look like drive shafts are the linkages coming off the steering rack.
Actually, just found confirmation in their FAQs. Go to the performance tab and then click on "What type of wheels does Aptera have?". I imagine the rear wheel on the all wheel drive models (first three wheel drive car I've heard of) is just one of the front hub motors mounted on a single sided swingarm.
https://www.aptera.us/faq
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Perhaps they show the stator and the rotor is inside the wheel? I found the faq answer.
Elaphe's exceptional in-wheel motor technologies give Aptera exceptional ride comfort, sporty performance, and tunable efficiency to assure the lowest energy usage possible. The standard motor package will be on typical 16" rims with a 195/45/r16 tire.
How fast is Aptera?
All of our vehicles will be 100 mph+ capable. 0-60 mph in our All-Wheel Drive version clocks in as fast as 3.5 seconds and Front-Wheel Drive as fast as 5.5 seconds. Both versions will be RPM limited to just over 110 mph.
They salt the roads around here and use a more corrosive salt than NaCl that can be pumped in places. Probably best having drive shafts for an all season vehicle?
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It has the same problems the original aptera had. The design is smart in a lab but not suited for real life.
Most people don't find fuel efficiency to be a big enough problem to justify the sacrifices the aerodynamic design comes with. No rear seats, no big trunk, no way to add a roof rack, etc.
The efficiency of the design doesn't take into account how people actually use cars. Where are you going where you need 1000 miles on a charge, but you don't have space for luggage?
Don't get me wrong, there will be customers, and if the car is made a lot of them will be happy with what they get. But the design is far too narrow minded and limiting to ever be more than extremely niche.
I am really curious what kind of wh/mi this is going to get at freeway speeds though.
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No rear seats, no big trunk, no way to add a roof rack, etc.
Most two-seaters do not have back seats, no. The Aptera has the same cargo space as a Model 3. Most people don't put roof-racks on cars, especially not sports cars.
This is just a car to do most the things you do with a car. Just like the Cybertruck is designed to do most the things you do with a truck, Neither do the things you expect of a crossover, like have a sporty roof rack in a compact parking space for your surf board or skis. I think they might fit inside, tho.
-Crissa
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No rear seats, no big trunk, no way to add a roof rack, etc.
The Aptera has the same cargo space as a Model 3. Most people don't put roof-racks on cars, especially not sports cars.
It certainly does not. (https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/tesla-model-3-trunk-folded-cargo-space.jpg)
Most two-seaters are sports cars and get their value from how fun they are to drive and how well they handle. The aptera is not going to move those customers.
The cybertruck has some of the same problems, but it does have a functioning truck bed and space for the kids in the back seat. It's also going to make its owners feel safe with how huge and tank like it is. It has a lot of features the car market is looking for. It definitely makes concessions for style, but it still fits into the most popular category of cars in its primary market.
I'm not saying some people won't like it, just that it will forever be niche.
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Obviously, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But I wouldn't be caught dead driving around in an Aptera. That thing just looks too weird to my eye. Even worse than the original Brammo Enertia. I think that if your purpose is to sell electric vehicles in a volume to the general public that will return a profit to your company and its investors, you need to make them look more conventional. However, if you want to make a rolling statement to shock the viewer and rack up YouTube reviews, you make it look like the Aptera.
The Aptera would be perfect to be featured in a James Bond or science fiction movie. ;)
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I forked over my $100 deposit for the 250 mi. For me:
I do like the design, I suspect that it would have minimal buffeting from wind due to the aero's, I live with an off-grid solar/micro hydro system and cannot charge a Bolt for example. I can manage my SR over 2 days and this does not draw anymore than my SR, however the extreme efficiency and integrate array can provide ~40mi./day. Just the wife and I, retired, mostly need a run to Town that is 40 mi. RT. We do that at most 2x/wk but could go every other day w/o ever plugging in. Wife visits mom once a week that is 150mi. RT and can charge there if need. Grandkids are 240mi. RT and can charge there. Plenty of room for am massive Costco run and it looks ideal for us.
We'll se if it ever comes to be....
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Obviously, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But I wouldn't be caught dead driving around in an Aptera. That thing just looks too weird to my eye. Even worse than the original Brammo Enertia. I think that if your purpose is to sell electric vehicles in a volume to the general public that will return a profit to your company and its investors, you need to make them look more conventional. However, if you want to make a rolling statement to shock the viewer and rack up YouTube reviews, you make it look like the Aptera.
The Aptera would be perfect to be featured in a James Bond or science fiction movie. ;)
The physical laws of our universe, i.e. what is and is not an aerodynamic shape, are not beholden to your sense of taste. One might as well say all birds are ugly because they have a similarly aero shape.
As always, I am skeptical about concept vehicles, and not thrilled about a hub motor, but these guys check a lot of boxes for me in terms of a correct way of approaching it. Aerodynamics are ignored in every other vehicle out there. I wish these guys the best of luck, though.
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I find it rather bizarre that here we have the most speaking out against the car's ugliness - I didn't expect many to jump at it, because we already have something basically a step better. But over at the truck forum, only a couplle thought it was ugly.
PS, the Model 3 devotes most of its space to passengers. Its pure cargo space is 15 cubic feet, while the Aptera has 25. So yes, the Aptera has more cargo space.
-Crissa
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While beauty is really important to some I don't think it's all that important for a vehicle to be successful. The 1st gen leaf is ugly as sin IMO, but for a long time it was the best selling electric, because plenty of people aren't as concerned with looks as they are with practicality and value.
Crissa, the Model 3 has passenger seats that fold down and give you over 40 cubic feet of total cargo space. This is what makes it far more practical and useable IMO. Hatchbacks are pretty darn popular for a reason, the flexibility between how you use your space allows the car to adjust to your changing needs. Sometimes I need to fit furniture or large packages in my volt that would absolutely not fit in the aptera. Sometimes (not in 2020) I give a couple friends a ride or carpool to work. Again, not possible with the aptera.
2 seats and only 25 cubic feet of storage is far more limiting than almost any hatchback, crossover, suv, or truck out there. My point was that for most people, that sacrifice is not worth the fuel efficiency that the aptera has. The average consumer is far more concerned about getting their kids to school than getting 1000 miles on a charge.
For some people, like Starpower, the Aptera makes perfect sense and will work very well for them. But again, the number of people who buy brand new electric cars but also live off-grid with a small solar array is as niche as it can get.
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I feel as though tl;dr; is appropriate, since from the first glance, I think this was missed:
PS, the Model 3 devotes most of its space to passengers.
Kinda like I already said that.
But a Model 3 is neither 25K nor a two-seater. And if you fill the seats in it, you have 15 cubic feet of storage space, just as if you fill out the seats in an Aptera you have more.
On that point, doesn't that make the Aptera still better Wh/mi per seat than the Model 3?
-Crissa
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So the Aptera is not a car but a motorcycle which means helmet laws will apply. So I am guessing that a lot of Aptera owners, much like some Slingshot owners will be counting on police not knowing they are supposed to be wearing helmets!
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You're willfully missing the point. The model 3 has flexible space that can be storage or passenger space depending on your needs. The aptera has storage space only. You cannot fold the seats down and fit bigger items in the aptera. So its practical, useable storage space is way, way less. It's less flexible to peoples daily changing needs.
As for price, they claim 25k now. The model 3 claimed under 30k and never got there. We won't know Aptera's real price until people own them, but hopefully they can make good on that claim. Worth noting that like the tesla, the aptera has announced a price range 26k-47k. It's very possible the first models rolling off the line will all be the higher end models and the entry level ones will be the last to be delivered. Even then, we won't be able to compare that price to todays prices, but the prices of other EV's whenever the Aptera launches.
The aptera probably makes better wh/mi than any enclosed vehicle out there, but most people buying EV's don't even know what wh/mi is. They might look at its MPGe though, which will certainly be impressive.
As for helmet laws, it varies state to state. In many states including California, the aptera fits the requirements to not need helmets.
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So the Aptera is not a car but a motorcycle which means helmet laws will apply.
No. It's got a steering wheel and an enclosed cabin.
You're willfully missing the point. ...
Says the person willfully ignoring that I already granted that the Model 3 had more passenger seats?
There is no perfect vehicle. Different people have different demands, and different vehicles do them better. Saying four seats is better than two is the same argument that two seats are better than one. Or six is better than four. But that still has to face how much energy it costs to move it, how much space it takes up to store it, and how much money it costs to get it. The Model 3 costs at least 50% more than the Aptera up front, takes 'about' the same space to store, though really a little less, and per-seat the Aptera meets or beats the Model 3 for both cargo and watt-hours per mile.
That's pretty cool,
-Crissa
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It was harder to look up the load rating than I expected. Just the tire curious about the rating of the vehicle. Is the owners manual on line?
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/MHL-63711?seid=srese1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAzsz-BRCCARIsANotFgO7Xn9D1icAjp9QBznlKz--rwJs0P4GQydDQifN1MhB8M4gB0A7VXsaAmH0EALw_wcB
So 1100 Pounds weight rating and I expect it will be pretty hard to put cargo (they call it luggage where I was at Aptera) load on the front.
Will these new force vectoring vehicles come with different turning circle values for different settings, like a tractor with or without 4wd engaged and whether one depresses one brake pedal to help it turn.
Will there be support groups that will figure out how to do smoke shows and tricks with these things. Must be possibilities beyond donuts in reverse for front wheel drive automobiles.