ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Damon => Topic started by: NEW2elec on November 27, 2020, 02:25:27 AM
-
Going over subjects like why gas bike makers are resisting going electric, a few more details of the Hypersport as well as a little bit more about the subscription option. Also talking about how the ownership delivery will go and more.
From Ian G Laurie's Youtube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hxh4p4Pa94&feature=youtu.be
-
In that video at about the 32:12 mark Jay is asked about the longer term plan for the company.
In his response he mentions they have had extraordinary demand so far "without even throwing fuel on the fire".
He then makes a point to say "when we do throw fuel on the fire, we expect to see 10s of thousands of pre-orders"
I'm sure they have a playbook for releasing information at certain intervals and they aren't at the "fuel" stage yet but what is everyone's guesses about what that "fuel" could be.
-
The "fuel" has to be battery and charging related. To pull in 10s of thousands of orders Damon has to build the most amazing sport bike that can smoke anything currently on the market and that just happens to be powered by electricity instead of gasoline. They have to have what it takes to change the mind of someone looking at a Ducati (for example) and get them to buy a Damon because it will out perform a Ducati. What you look at electric motorcycles and what everyone complains about and why they won't buy one it is about range and charging time, both can be solved by battery and charging technology. Going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
-
Good luck getting tens of thousands of customers in today's market. I am still not hearing about any big interest regarding electric motorcycles by people who own ICE motorcycles at this time. I doubt there are any vehicle enthusiasts more conservative than motorcycle owners. ::) Even when the supply of new bikes is choked off by the world's governments, expect to see a lot of people hanging on to the ICE vehicles as long as possible. Maybe 30 years from now the electric motorcycle market will reach the point where tens of thousands of units will be sold in a year. If the market had a bright future in the near term, the big 4 Japanese manufacturers would be promoting their own production EVs. So far they are really laying low.
-
See the Japanese Big 4 getting their lunch handed to them by EVs in the car sector everywhere but protected markets.
I don't think that's a great bit of evidence.
So there is room for the Tesla of motorcycles.
-Crissa
-
The "fuel" has to be battery and charging related. To pull in 10s of thousands of orders Damon has to build the most amazing sport bike that can smoke anything currently on the market and that just happens to be powered by electricity instead of gasoline. They have to have what it takes to change the mind of someone looking at a Ducati (for example) and get them to buy a Damon because it will out perform a Ducati. What you look at electric motorcycles and what everyone complains about and why they won't buy one it is about range and charging time, both can be solved by battery and charging technology. Going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
Hi,
They have already changed my mind with their Premier bikes. In fact, I own a Panigale and I'm eager to see Damon's premier bikes in action ;D
Cheers!
-
Good luck getting tens of thousands of customers in today's market. I am still not hearing about any big interest regarding electric motorcycles by people who own ICE motorcycles at this time. I doubt there are any vehicle enthusiasts more conservative than motorcycle owners. ::) Even when the supply of new bikes is choked off by the world's governments, expect to see a lot of people hanging on to the ICE vehicles as long as possible. Maybe 30 years from now the electric motorcycle market will reach the point where tens of thousands of units will be sold in a year. If the market had a bright future in the near term, the big 4 Japanese manufacturers would be promoting their own production EVs. So far they are really laying low.
I have a big interest in electric motorcycles, especially the ones from Damon, and I own ICE motorcycle ;D ;D
-
In that video at about the 32:12 mark Jay is asked about the longer term plan for the company.
In his response he mentions they have had extraordinary demand so far "without even throwing fuel on the fire".
He then makes a point to say "when we do throw fuel on the fire, we expect to see 10s of thousands of pre-orders"
I'm sure they have a playbook for releasing information at certain intervals and they aren't at the "fuel" stage yet but what is everyone's guesses about what that "fuel" could be.
How about the big rig full of demo bikes, Since there is no dealer network they will perhaps rent various places to have demo day. How about make the 200 number of models or whatever the number is now to qualify to enter road racing AMA events. As it is now the number of views on youtube videos is pretty small in my opinion.
Have you looked into how enough cells could be fit into the drawings or pictures of the heart of the bike to get the kwh claimed?
-
Good luck getting tens of thousands of customers in today's market. I am still not hearing about any big interest regarding electric motorcycles by people who own ICE motorcycles at this time. I doubt there are any vehicle enthusiasts more conservative than motorcycle owners. ::) Even when the supply of new bikes is choked off by the world's governments, expect to see a lot of people hanging on to the ICE vehicles as long as possible. Maybe 30 years from now the electric motorcycle market will reach the point where tens of thousands of units will be sold in a year. If the market had a bright future in the near term, the big 4 Japanese manufacturers would be promoting their own production EVs. So far they are really laying low.
I have a big interest in electric motorcycles, especially the ones from Damon, and I own ICE motorcycle ;D ;D
So do I, but that is not true of my motorcycle riding friends and others that I come in contact with at motorcycle watering holes. The only electronics that they seem to be interested in are the ones that come on their new digital TFT color display screens. ::)
-
Have you looked into how enough cells could be fit into the drawings or pictures of the heart of the bike to get the kwh claimed?
An excellent point. Also remember that the stack efficiency of 21700s, the cells they plan on using, is 65% and that’s before any sort of liquid cooling.
To reach the voltage they advertise they’ll need somewhere around 124 cells in series and around 9 parallel packs IF they can get the best 21700 cell on the market (Samsung 50G). So that’s well over 1000 cells at a stack efficiency under 65%.
-
Fran K, at least the planned answer pre-Covid was right there on Jay's shirt in the interview. That's where test rides were going to be held.
I don't know if that has changed or is still the plan but test ride plans and locations will follow.
When you say Heart of the bike I guess you mean the Hyperdrive unit.
Just like the animation shows the cells just float in, happy to be a part of an awesome bike. ;)
As for racing, Energica will not be the sole manufacturer in E Moto in 2022 per their agreement. So maybe Damon or Zero or some other company will join in and people can see some competition.
-
I searched out Moto E and found that the idea is to have all bikes the same and Energica has such monoply extended another year. https://www.carandbike.com/news/energica-to-be-motoe-supplier-till-2022-2307787 If you have a better link it would be nice. Not sure how to read it new contract for 2022 or existing contract extended through 2022.
At any rate the series is FIM and the AMA is the United States representitive to FIM as I understand it. Would the production rule apply? That is 200 units. I may be wrong generally deal in off road local stuff where 400 riders might attend and an Alta might ride around the pits and not enter.
-
In 2022 the E Moto series will be open for competition.
As far as I know it's the only all electric sport bike racing there is.
Gas bikes still have 100 years head start so all out racing against gas bikes might be a hard win.
Damon has over 1000 bike reservations so far so either way "if" they choose to race in E Moto they could.
-
In 2022 the E Moto series will be open for competition.
As far as I know it's the only all electric sport bike racing there is.
AHRMA Formula Lightning? https://www.ahrma.org/formula-lightning-series-zero-emission-motorcycle-racing/
Damon has over 1000 bike reservations so far so either way "if" they choose to race in E Moto they could.
If they can pass safety tests. Not everyone can.
-
Is AMA/FIM involved in ARRMA formula lightning?
That is kind of what I had in mind for "fuel/advertising" Ten thousand units of sport bike is a tall order. It is mostly cruisers rumbling by, don't pay attention to sales though.
-
Yep I had forgot there was E Moto (now Formula Lightning) and Moto E. It's MotoE that is all Energicas and was the one I would guess Damon would want to race in if they want to race at all.
So basically you feel that joining in with racing would get enough hype to make the sales jump.
It certainly never hurts to be seen on a race track.
We'll see.
One thing though, they never said 10s of thousands of "just" sport bikes.
-
Edit- I shouldn’t do math and celebrate New Years at the same time
-
5000 mahr not 500. Just an internet search. The KTM battery has 360 18650 cells 3.9kwh nominal (I believe, Zero uses badge values not nominal ones) for the current battery. The cells, say a thousand of them 21700 might fit there is so much stuff in batteries and not thermal related where I do not see how.
-
I guess that 900 volt 113 kWh Lucid Air must weigh 12 tons.
I guess there is still a fixation on the claimed range. Again I strongly urge everyone to limit speculation and see what test rides and reviews show us. I'm sure everyone at Damon along with myself and others wish the world were in a current state where test ride events could be held and the bikes shown off, but it's not right now so we just have to wait.
I will post a short version of an old joke that might give some perspective to all manufactures "best case range" vs what we would more likely get in the real world.
Two guys are out walking in the woods when they come up on a hungry, angry bear.
The first guy takes off running as fast as he can.
The second guy yells to him "don't you know you can't outrun a bear"?
To which the first man yells back "I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you"
;)
It just needs to be better than the other guys.
Oh and Fran K here's a semi ready to roll out Damon test rides. From their FB page. May just be photo shop but still it looks good.
https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/134953934_1367622763589259_4552782172272560157_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=2&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=NKFg6naxKJQAX9FYzxT&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=3771c80a739038847f9658f897850b6f&oe=60147BC5
-
I guess that 900 volt 113 kWh Lucid Air must weigh 12 tons.
Ah yes a comparison between the bike that doesn't exist and the car that doesn't exist.
Oh and Fran K here's a semi ready to roll out Damon test rides. From their FB page. May just be photo shop but still it looks good.
https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/134953934_1367622763589259_4552782172272560157_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=2&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=NKFg6naxKJQAX9FYzxT&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=3771c80a739038847f9658f897850b6f&oe=60147BC5
May just be photo shop but still it looks good.
May just be photo shop
May just be
May
....
(https://i.imgur.com/awFSnQ2.jpg)
-
I think your still drunk.
-
The car that doesn't exist?
...The one they have here?
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1128120_lucid-air-electric-car-fleet-of-40-prototypes-temporarily-parked
The factory that they just built here?
https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/energy/2020/12/01/lucid-motors-factory-az-completed-manufacturing-begin-2021/6407567002/
What is wrong with you?
-Crissa
-
I think your still drunk.
Just point me towards the owners so I can have a discussion with them and learn about the vehicles they own. Shouldn't be a problem, right?
-
Morgan it's easy to be negative. If everything comes out as advertised then you shrug and say "ok, guess I was wrong" and that's it for you, no big deal.
I don't see how you can look at the bike and look at the resumes of the Damon team and feel like it just can't happen.
The Covid restriction are real man. It's beyond their control. When everything opens up they will start with test rides.
Again we just have to wait.
-
I don't see how you can look at the bike and look at the resumes of the Damon team and feel like it just can't happen.
"I don't see how you can look at the claimed stats and then do the math on what is realistic/possible and feel like it just can happen."
-
I don't see how you can look at the bike and look at the resumes of the Damon team and feel like it just can't happen.
The Covid restriction are real man. It's beyond their control. When everything opens up they will start with test rides.
Again we just have to wait.
I hope you and Crissa will accept that there are folks that won't count something as real until they can look up the serial number at the assessors office and tell how much property tax will be. This put a deposit on something for which prototypes exist... They use NADA at the town hall here. I can find Harley, Zero, and Energica, and the Mustang E which strangely is considered a suv? No I didn't look for Damon rivian or the other one (cage) which has the 40 prototypes and funding from Saudia Arabian folks to build big in Arizona.
I went wandreing around about the Damon team. The one female there and the marketing one got a hit.
https://freemanmeansbusiness.com/blog/2020/6/2/wonder-woman-in-business-amber-spencer
That wasn't a model they hired at the show where Damon rented a space that was Amber.
It even says she hopes Damon plays in motoE " She aims to race the Damon Hypersport in the MotoE World Cup in the near future."
Anyone here see her at a race? Looks like San Francisco area where there seem to be multiple members on here from.
-
I've given you examples of how companies do things different for better results. There are videos showing all the ways Lucid approached the range problem with "smart" solutions not just more and more batteries for better range. I also know you know it proves my point because your trying to cling to the fact that they aren't in customers hands as a last defense.
Approach this from the human side not the math side, because you don't "know" what they will actually put in the bike.
Less assumptive math and more human psychology. Why would successful, brilliant people tie their reputations to an all out fabrication?
While I would absolutely welcome the fully claimed range all the time, I won't throw a tantrum if the real world results are less then the ideal claimed range.
I live in the real world and I've had EVs for years and accept the physics involved in human transportation, and how it effects range.
By the way that picture they posted on their FB page has generated some interesting comments and replies, and "might" be a clue to the "fuel to the fire" comment that this thread was extended for.
We'll see.
-
Morning Fan K, I see you posted.
So Damons aren't "for sale" at this point like a Honda at a dealer. The Founders bikes are slated to be delivered by late 2021 and the others by 2022.
The world is changing my friend and the old way of high overhead dealerships and and middle men are being fazed out.
If you would like to learn (and see) more about Amber you can click on the Damon Instagram link and then at the bottom there is a link to her Instagram page with pictures of her racing. I know because of all the research I do for this section of course. ;)
-
I've given you examples of how companies do things different for better results. There are videos showing all the ways Lucid approached the range problem with "smart" solutions not just more and more batteries for better range. I also know you know it proves my point because your trying to cling to the fact that they aren't in customers hands as a last defense.
It's not a last defense. It's literally the first question I ask. "Are they in the hands of customers?" If not, they get filtered into the Concept Pile section. Companies that have successfully delivered products get heavier weighting for how likely it will be to exist in the end. Like the Cybertruck. Or Chevy's standalone Bolt power trains that they want to offer to enthusiasts to convert their old vehicles to electric.
Approach this from the human side not the math side, because you don't "know" what they will actually put in the bike.
All I can do is speculate based on what they have claimed they were doing. They have claimed they are using 21700 cells from South Korea and that it will be a 450 volt nominal system. Their latest information indicated a 19.2kWh pack. "These are the facts, your honor, and they are undisputed."
I base calculations off of this information. If you want to do the math and you come up with different results than me I'd love to see it.
While I would absolutely welcome the fully claimed range all the time, I won't throw a tantrum if the real world results are less then the ideal claimed range.
I live in the real world and I've had EVs for years and accept the physics involved in human transportation, and how it effects range.
There comes a point when you have to also examine the claims of the company in interviews, etc. Take this article for example (and I think it's linked somewhere in here already) https://www.webbikeworld.com/damon-motors-reveals-its-hyperdrive-multi-variant-powertrain-alongside-new-models/
They talk about having a battery density of 200Wh/kg is an unprecedented achievement. In fact, the article states, "Damon claims its battery is the most energy-dense in the world at 200 Wh per kg. "
I asked some of my buddies at Zero about the energy density of their packs, not mentioning anything about Damon, and they said, "I think ours are around 280Wh/kg. Why?"
Jay stated on Facebook that Tesla didn't have cells that dense. I happen to know the model 3 cells they currently use, even before the new tabless ones, are 250Wh/kg.
Additionally they talk about this unprecedented 3C discharge rate. Jay is very adamant that this is an incredible achievement. I have bad news about that. Zero's cells are rated for 10C discharge. There is also the issue that, if the packs are 19.2kWh, a 3C discharge is 57.6kW. This is a far cry from the 150kW of power they're also, in the same breath, advertising. There is a fundamental misunderstanding of how this stuff works from the CEO. Combine that with his arrogant way of talking down about his competition and you have major red flags that, in my mind, cannot be ignored.
-
I hope you and Crissa will accept ...
I just pointed out that the car is a real car with a real factory. Yes, it's less 'real' than something rolling off the factory floor, but there were literally 40 of them a year ago, and they're making more now. It's as real as the Tucker was.
Now, you can say the Lordstown truck is 'just a prototype' because there is only one and it's not production intent. But there are dozens of examples of the Lucid Air now, and they just built their factory from the ground up, not just slapping their name on an existing building.
So saying it's not real is... genuinely unhinged.
-Crissa
-
I hope you and Crissa will accept ...
I just pointed out that the car is a real car with a real factory. Yes, it's less 'real' than something rolling off the factory floor, but there were literally 40 of them a year ago, and they're making more now. It's as real as the Tucker was.
Now, you can say the Lordstown truck is 'just a prototype' because there is only one and it's not production intent. But there are dozens of examples of the Lucid Air now, and they just built their factory from the ground up, not just slapping their name on an existing building.
So saying it's not real is... genuinely unhinged.
-Crissa
I heard today on the CBS radio news that an EV company that was going to build trucks, I think it was Lucid (it was the one that GM was going to invest in and then dropped out of the deal), is being investigated by the SEC for fraud, their CEO has bailed out and might be headed for jail some day. The company was apparently following in the footsteps of several other high-profile startup companies with big claims and no product who were trolling for investors and got caught lying about their product and their business model.
-
You're thinking of Nikola.
Cas :)
-
Ok MVetter, I'll return the favor and cherry pick what I want from your post.
Quote from MVetter:
"All I can do is speculate"
That's right, so don't, just wait and see what the finished bike is like.
Also quoted from MVetter while addressing me:
"your honor"
Now that's more like it. 8)
-
Cherry pick? What parts of your post do you feel I didn't address fairly?
-
What part of this concept isn't fair?
"All I can do is speculate"
That's right, so don't, just wait and see what the finished bike is like.
-
I'm not entirely sure that taking half a quote out of context and repeatedly waving it at me is going to have the desired effect.
-
My last post for the night.
When you typed "All I can do is speculate" that is where you should have stopped typing because that is heart of the matter. It's what I have told you you were doing on more than one occasion.
I encouraged you and anyone else interested to sign up for a test ride. To hold judgement until you had a chance to at least get a taste of what the bike could do and how it felt.
This is universally excepted as the way to "try before you buy" so to speak. It isn't too much to ask to wait for that opportunity.
You've gone way past cautious skepticism to the point where you seem to desperately not want this company to succeed.
-
You've gone way past cautious skepticism to the point where you seem to desperately not want this company to succeed.
If I didn't have a good grasp of the technology you would have a point. I look at the amazing accomplishments of the other manufacturers in this sector. Zero. Energica. Harley-Davidson. They're all making really cool things resulting in bikes that make sense when you break down their components and look at them. Stay with me on this. Along comes another company that says, using more or less the same technology, their next-gen bike will deliver 150% more on basically every stat.
"Huh" I say to myself, "I wonder how they plan to accomplish that. Will they have a higher density battery?"
No. In fact they're using lower-density 21700 cells that weigh more and don't stack nearly as efficiently as pouches. So the battery may actually be taking a step backwards in relation to the competition.
"Hmm. Motor?"
Appears to be based on the one Mission designed for H-D. Works well but nothing revolutionary.
"Controller?"
Appears to be Mission's controller from 8 years ago. It's good but nothing revolutionary.
"Well then the answer must be aerodynamics. Thankfully I know a fair bit about aerodynamic shapes and what it takes to cut through the wind at high speeds with little resistance. The SR/S is taking great steps in this direction but even it can't do under 100 Wh/mi at freeway speeds which is what you would need to accomplish 200 miles."
No it's an FIM style fairing. Looks to be slightly less aerodynamic than the SR/S.
"Ok well then pardon my French but what the ****?"
-
Vetter, you have a great grasp of technology.
But you're taking the engineer's mistake. That nothing beyond your personal past capability is possible.
-Crissa
-
Yes Crissa, that statement pretty much sums up what I've been trying to say.
MVetter: "their next-gen bike will deliver 150% more on basically every stat."
Umm your math is still off there.
The Ego+ claims 150hp (edit 145hp). The Hypersport claims 200hp, that's about a 33.5% (edit 38%) increase.
The Ego+ claims 150mph. The Hypersport claims 200mph once again 33.5% increase.
The Ego+ claims 250 miles city range. Damon claimed 300 miles city range for a 20% increase.
How MIGHT they achieve this?
Lets start with the basics.
Higher Voltage=Lower Amps=Less Heat=Lower Internal Cell Resistance=Less need for liquid cooling=Lower volume of liquid needed to circulate through the system to achieve a desired temperature=Less weight.
This also applies to the motor with the same effect and outcome.
By the way this is what Lucid credited with some of it's improved efficiency, if you had bothered to watch and acknowledge that instead of coming up with a wild theory that they added batteries to the media car.
The Hyperdrive unit does away with a standard frame, serving two purposes for the same weight.
To further speculate, by using cylindrical cells which are more durable and puncture resistant than pouch cells they don't need to house their cells in a heavy bank safe style battery case like Energica.
While we're here that new Energica battery case that removed the air flow channel seems to be less able to bleed off heat causing CCS charging to ramp down at as low as 40% SOC according to some Forum members.
Discussed here https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10494.0 Maybe they can get that fixed, we'll see.
As for aerodynamics, hard to tell, but if the bike is configured in such a way as to allow the rider to better tuck in out of the wind that makes the true measure (bike+rider) better over all.
-
Aerodynamics for motorcycles is ... bullshit. Forget about that argument. The fairing won't make more than 10% difference to the range, and even that's highly unlikely as it looks to be designed for style, not function.
Cas :)
-
Umm your math is still off there.
The Ego+ claims 150hp (edit 145hp). The Hypersport claims 200hp, that's about a 33.5% (edit 38%) increase.
The Ego+ claims 150mph. The Hypersport claims 200mph once again 33.5% increase.
The Ego+ claims 250 miles city range. Damon claimed 300 miles city range for a 20% increase.
And the Zero bikes and LiveWire have stats further away from that so I kinda split the difference mentally because I was including them.
How MIGHT they achieve this?
Lets start with the basics.
Higher Voltage=Lower Amps=Less Heat=Lower Internal Cell Resistance=Less need for liquid cooling=Lower volume of liquid needed to circulate through the system to achieve a desired temperature=Less weight.
This also applies to the motor with the same effect and outcome.
By the way this is what Lucid credited with some of it's improved efficiency, if you had bothered to watch and acknowledge that instead of coming up with a wild theory that they added batteries to the media car.
What are your thoughts on why the SR/F, with its smaller battery and literally half the voltage, got very similar range numbers to the LiveWire in Cycle World's review, then? https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-reviews/2020-harley-davidson-livewire-vs-zero-motorcycles-srf-premium/
Also you assert that this platform would have less need for liquid cooling, yet they're actively pursuing adding it. No one else has liquid cooling on the batteries besides other concept bikes like Evoke's 6061 cruiser which, incidentally also is trying to use cylinders and is freaking massive as a result. Behemoth on wheels. But hey that's what you get with cylindrical cells.
Aerodynamics for motorcycles is ... bullshit. Forget about that argument. The fairing won't make more than 10% difference to the range, and even that's highly unlikely as it looks to be designed for style, not function.
This application of aero is definitely questionable. But aero for motorcycles, when done right, can and will halve the drag and thereby double the range.
-
1. I wasn't they don't come close to a 19-21kWh pack. The Damon SX and SE models cover those.
2. The LW uses that reduction gear (and shorter gearing over all) which lets it pull real hard off the line but at the cost of top speed and efficiency. I posted months ago for you two to do a equal range run and show which bikes died first because I knew that would happen.
3 Cooling for the Hyperdrive is all part of one package so all gets cooled. The Alta used cylinder cells and was incredibly robust and on the rare occasion they come up for sale on Cycle Trader they are gone in a week.
Based on Gen 2 Zeros using Diginow's 9.9 kw of charging overheating on long tour trips and also the a fore mentioned but ignored by you new Energica+ bikes ramping down charging speeds because of overheating they NEED cooling.
-
The inverter, motor, and batteries all run at wildly different temperatures. Energicas motors are in an oil bath and the inverter has a separate water pump and its own radiator. Do you suspect Damon is going to try and link the cooling system of the motor, which can run in excess of 200 F, with the batteries that generally need to stay under 100 F?
-
There are two radiators if you look. One on each side.
Are we done playing the guessing game yet?
-
You mean two renderings of radiators?
-
Go see if you can help the Energica guys with their overheating.
I got this over here.
-
Accountability is only for companies that exist and deliver tangible products, then.
-
Critique is reserved, by normal people, for after a product or service has been given to a customer in exchange for the full cost of that product.
Yes.
-
You can also cool things to different temperatures by putting them in different sections of a cooling loop.
It's literally rocket science, but it is something that's done in more things now.
-Crissa
-
Big question I have is with the battery cooling is whether or not it functions during charging? Any ideas?
-
Big question I have is with the battery cooling is whether or not it functions during charging? Any ideas?
We can't know, but presumably. That's when it's of most use.
-Crissa
-
I turned on the closed caption so I could read as well as listen. Minute 31:30 Over 100 folks have ridden the bike. Note investors is mentioned. Have they signed a non disclosure agreement? Any of them members on here?
Things are pretty slow, I for one go by recent posts when coming here and the ignore function doesn't work in that mode. Post up a half hour suggested viewing best expect some discussion. Couldn't Morgan do a video interview for his "channel"?
This is long distance.
The only hybrid to come to market the Vespa with less than a gallon of gasoline tank seemed not to make it more than a year, The baby steps for honda pancake motor got virtually no intrest. Putin's body guard squadron of electric bikes gets no mention. This section is what is "hot" :)
Edit, this site gives virtually no time to edit before it shows editing. At this point folks in the manufacturing consulting business have completely dis assembled Tesla product and written about such. I just point this out in 2021.
Another side note kind of pertinant to the traction control discussion elsewhere on here. Honda bought Montesa years ago and Montesa bikes are made in europe, France I believe though it says honda on the engine unit. They import them once a year, find a dealer that will get you one, tell them so, at some time they ask for a $500 deposit via card, a month or two later you go with a bank check and pick it up, they actually have the certificate of origion in hand. I don't know how the special order goes with BMW, the bikes in stock are loaded with options but one can order the base model.
-
Jay did post his telephone number publicly and said people could call, but if I were to do that I'd want to pick questions very carefully so it's not just a bunch of, "Aha, gotcha!" type questions. I don't think anything positive would come from such an interaction on either side. There's no reason for me to actively poke a bear, you know? I'll voice my concerns here and on other forums, and if he wants to go out of his way to converse with me then I will step up and attempt to do so in a professional manner.
-
That's a very good point. I don't think Jay always speaks exactly correct. And that happens, no one is perfect, especially when they're primarily a consumer of tech rather than a producer.
Maybe if you wrote out your questions in a more specific format?
We all have questions. And you know we think your butt in the seat is influencing. You guys have the most miles in the most electric motorcycles of anyone I've ever heard of.
-Crissa
-
I special ordered my 2009 BMW F650GS. All it took was a visit to my dealer, handing them a $500 deposit and waiting 6 months for the bike to arrive.
When I bought my 2016 BMW R1200RS I asked about buying the base model and was told that it would have to be special ordered and would take about 9 months to arrive. Naturally, I didn't want to wait so I bought the loaded "launch" model, which was the only thing available at the time. SOP for BMW. ::)
-
People ask questions on the Damon FB page all the time.
They have a schedule of information release so it will come out when they see fit to release it.
Once again that's why there is no point in speculating when you can't get confirmation one way or the other.