ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => Electric Motorcycle News => Topic started by: Electric Cowboy on September 26, 2020, 06:58:16 AM
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Don't care if California shuts down the electricity from the forest fires! We have an EV Siphon!! Just sucking those electrons out for whatever we want!
In this video, Morgan decides to make us a picnic, combining 2 of the best things to come out of Italy, pizza and motorcycles. We cook the pizza using our new invention, the EV Siphon. It pulls electricity out of your electric vehicle to use however you want! We are actively seeking funding and hope to make this product available to everyone.
Also... if we are able to get funded, Energica has committed to integrating with our tech to become the worlds first production electric motorcycle to allow power out / v2g/h/x power anything, including your whole house/building!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dRbq8FPvqw&feature=emb_title
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How much power does it take to cook a pizza? O-o
-Crissa
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How much power does it take to cook a pizza? O-o
-Crissa
How many watts is the pizza cooker? How long did it take? I wonder how much his SOC dropped down.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I loved the video ^-^
It just raises so many questions. Like, how do you transport a pizza on a bike.
-Crissa
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I loved the video ^-^
It just raises so many questions. Like, how do you transport a pizza on a bike.
-Crissa
ICE riders will simply say they can use their bikes to go to a Pizza Hut or whatever.
I guess if you have a frozen pizza to heat up during the PG&E power outages--but I have my RV generator.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I have a generator, too; but I would rather have a nice, quiet battery.
-Crissa
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Very creative, but that frozen pizza looks scary. ;)
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I have a generator, too; but I would rather have a nice, quiet battery.
-Crissa
RV has that also. The house batteries and an 5KW MSW inverter which will work as well as a true sinewave for making heat. So there is your nice quiet battery. The batteries stay charged via solar when not being used.
I also own a 10 KW inverter, but it's still NIB (New in Box).
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Don Tom, good for you :) enjoy your RV also, this is not a pizza cooker, it supplies AC electricity. Which this Pizza cooker runs on ;)
@Crissa this used about 400Wh to cook the pizza because we used full power. Cooked in 15 min. So we estimate cooking a pizza would use about 2-3 miles of range.
This means that the 13.4 kw bike has a range of 30 pizzas and the 21.5 has a range of 47 pizzas. :D
Also, while I know it is fun to talk about Pizzas, it seems that some people are not realizing this is using the bike as energy storage, we just happened to plug a pizza cooker into it...
Here is another example to help think outside the Pizza Box :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfz5RCb2jRM
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Very creative, but that frozen pizza looks scary. ;)
We didn't think we were actually going to eat it, but it did actually smell really good. In the end... we ate the whole thing!
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Now I get it. All I saw was the pizza and the pizza cooker. I passed along the video to several other people as I thought it was quite creative and they thought it was about a portable pizza oven too. At least that was the case until I received a reply from a friend who had seen that cooker advertised before. It was only after I realized that the cooker was already on the market and then saw DonTom's comments above that I realized the video was about the cable and not the pizza cooker. :-[
I might add that I power my computer from an old motorcycle battery using a 12V 120V inverter when the power goes off. So I do get the concept. I guess the idea is to power 120V circuits directly from an EV battery pack and that requires a special connector, cable and inverter. ???
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Now I get it. All I saw was the pizza and the pizza cooker. I passed along the video to several other people as I thought it was quite creative and they thought it was about a portable pizza oven too. At least that was the case until I received a reply from a friend who had seen that cooker advertised before. It was only after I realized that the cooker was already on the market and then saw DonTom's comments above that I realized the video was about the cable and not the pizza cooker. :-[
I might add that I power my computer from an old motorcycle battery using a 12V 120V inverter when the power goes off. So I do get the concept. I guess the idea is to power 120V circuits directly from an EV battery pack and that requires a special connector, cable and inverter. ???
This is to use your battery as a whole house backup, for all plugs and such of all voltages ;)
Let me see, I think I have a video on that too. Feel free to subscribe :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isM5vE6duv0&list=PLfb8PtoaENTIuy4Pcjja3OTAvSUTJefj1
Thats actually a whole playlist of siphon videos.
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Don Tom, good for you :) enjoy your RV also, this is not a pizza cooker, it supplies AC electricity. Which this Pizza cooker runs on ;)
Where was the inverter?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Don Tom, good for you :) enjoy your RV also, this is not a pizza cooker, it supplies AC electricity. Which this Pizza cooker runs on ;)
Where was the inverter?
-Don- Auburn, CA
I just made the assumption that there had to be an inverter somewhere on the cable or maybe in the handle. Otherwise, how could it function to power a 120V appliance? ??? Am I right or am I wrong - again?
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I just made the assumption that there had to be an inverter somewhere on the cable or maybe in the handle. Otherwise, how could it function to power a 120V appliance? ??? Am I right or am I wrong - again?
When it comes to heat, DC power is exactly the same as AC (RMS) power. That includes the MSW inverters that will read low on most voltmeters (RMS voltmeters are kinda rare and pricy (https://www.ktool.net/fluke-fluke-289-true-rms-industrial-logging-multimeter-with-trendcapture/?msclkid=a548a5c4721917d82c65faab85565603&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=**LP%20Shop%20-%20USA%20-%20Fluke&utm_term=4582558316119342&utm_content=72799%20%7C%20Fluke%20289%20True-Rms%20Industrial%20Logging%20Multimeter%20With%20Trendcapture%20%7C%20%24649.99)). If there is an issue with running DC, it is the motor, not the heating element.
What "RMS" (Root-Mean-Square (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_mean_square)) in AC means in simple terms is how it compares in heat to DC at the same wattage under the same load. So to the heating element, 117 VDC is exactly the same as 117 VAC (such as your 120 VAC in your house). RMS is the norm for AC voltage measurements (there are also peak AC, peak to peak, average AC--and the list goes on). But RMS is always the DC heat equivalent of AC in a heating element.
But motors are MUCH different. Some motors only work on DC others only on AC. So since the pizza thing had a motor, it most likely is designed for AC, which means an inverter is needed somewhere and best would be a true sinewave inverter, but most will accept a so called "Modified Sine Wave" inverter. But that is sales BS. They are really a modified square wave.
Your household AC is a pure clean sinewave. Pure sinewave inverters are more expensive, and often not necessary, such as for heat. But running motors or charging your Zero is often taking a chance and usually will not work as well, if not damage things.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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it was off-camera sheesh none of you questioned how the pizza magically appeared in my hands
*mod edit: ::) check your capslock key
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We can accept there was a pizza on the passenger pillion that disappeared and reappeared whilst making vaguely 'italian' hand gestures, but the second you imply there was additional hardware is where I mash the report button to moderators, meow.
*mod edit: ::) check your capslock key... again. Zero-punctuation impulse seems to be malfunctioning as well.
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I don't think I have ever had 'pure clean sine wave' in my home power.
-Crissa
PS: Hey, I asked how you got it there!
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it was off-camera sheesh NONE OF YOU QUESTIONED HOW THE PIZZA MAGICALLY APPEARED IN MY HANDS
Just look at your avatar picture you obviously are a master of the dark arts so no I didn't question it.
LOL
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I don't think I have ever had 'pure clean sine wave' in my home power.
Where does your home power come from?
If you have PG&E it should be a clean perfect sinewave, not counting a few millivolts of noise that you won't even be able to notice. Home generators vary like crazy. My RV generator is quite good, not perfect, but good enough to use to charge of my Zero (at ~2.3 KW) on RV trips in areas that have no juice.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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We can accept there was a pizza on the passenger pillion that disappeared and reappeared whilst making vaguely 'italian' hand gestures, but the second you imply there was additional hardware is where I mash the report button to moderators.
Either additional hardware or that pizza cooker had a DC motor.
Or the entire thing was BS. We can only guess.
You have to tell us.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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It's not BS. The prototype hardware we used is larger than we want any sort of production units to be so we didn't put them in the foreground. You can hear them 'booting up' when I plug the CCS gun into my bike; listen for the series of relays clicking on and then fans powering on.
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AC & DC are not equivalent in resistance heating equipment, DC will invariably cause an AC heating system to melt sadly. I know, I have tried it. If you don't believe me, go get an electric tea kettle, plug it into a 116vdc Zero, and heat a pot of water, before you know it, it will be on the floor with the melted metal and plastic.
We do have a small 4kW AC inverter, 5kW peak, in the cable here. We can pair them up for 8kW/10kW as well.
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Also, instead of speculating, why not just watch the videos where we explain it all? I know pulling things from thin air is a favorite past time of this forum, but when the data is available... why not use it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6N2pVOud_s&list=PLfb8PtoaENTIuy4Pcjja3OTAvSUTJefj1&index=3
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AC & DC are not equivalent in resistance heating equipment, DC will invariably cause an AC heating system to melt sadly.
That is if there is a lot of inductance in the heating element. Then the AC impedance is different from the DC resistance. The heating element must be a tight wound coil for there to be such a difference at 60 HZ compared to DC.
Note that Wikipedia says: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_mean_square)
"For alternating electric current, RMS is equal to the value of the direct current that would produce the same average power dissipation in a resistive load."
Your heating element had to be an inductive load.
IOW, the resistance (impedance) on AC was a lot higher than on DC in ohms. So it will get a lot hotter with DC because then you have more watts. It could not have been a straight solid heating element for there to be such a difference.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Also, instead of speculating, why not just watch the videos where we explain it all?
Why bother? We already "speculated" that an inverter was used, which was correct. A 5KW inverter. I think that is the size of the inverter in my RV but it could be a 4 KW. I have not looked at it for a while because it is located in an area where it cannot be seen.
But your 5 KW inverter is overkill to cook a pizza. Inverters are more efficient if they are rated for just a little above what is required and not a lot more. You could probably cook another pizza or two if you used no more inverter than necessary.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Well I knew what you were using to make the little oven work. Because I watched your videos of that huge wagon load of electronics being pulled around.
I asked you what the hell it was and what the hell it did at that point. You never responded.
Now does this thing pull power from any EV other than an Energica?
That's a yes or no. Because at this point that is the only EV you have mentioned that it works with.
I know you really want to work with Energica and that's fine but you need to realize that:
A. There aren't that many Energica owners at this point.
B. A Tesla with 100kWh battery is a nice option for a few days of no power but 13kWhs won't even power a refrigerator for 2 weeks.
C. The early Tesla power walls couldn't be used when the the house lost grid power because it could hurt a lineman working to restore power. (From Fully Charged) You needed to have the house wired to safely do this. Does the Siphon have this fail safe approved?
D. A natural gas backup is a far superior option for about $2k if the house uses NG. If not there will be no AC no Heat and no hot water anyway as those pull far too much power for either option.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Generac-PowerPact-7500-Watt-LP-6000-Watt-NG-Standby-Generator-with-Automatic-Transfer-Switch/1000815538?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-sol-_-bing-_-pla-_-240-_-1000815538-_-0&kpid&placeholder=null&msclkid=85d969a14aeb16f90f3a36d04a6ef6b7&gclid=85d969a14aeb16f90f3a36d04a6ef6b7&gclsrc=3p.ds
E. If you drain your EV, and then if you have no other vehicle, now your stuck until the power returns.
Go to the 20:00 mark for the "won't work during a power outage" explanation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWLzlrGGuxQ
If you make a teaser you have to end it with a reveal then there isn't any confusion.
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C) That's a stupid excuse. Why have a battery that can't unplug itself (or be unplugged) from the grid? My computer UPS does that just fine without barbecuing linemen.
-Crissa
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AC & DC are not equivalent in resistance heating equipment, DC will invariably cause an AC heating system to melt sadly. I know, I have tried it. If you don't believe me, go get an electric tea kettle, plug it into a 116vdc Zero, and heat a pot of water, before you know it, it will be on the floor with the melted metal and plastic.
We do have a small 4kW AC inverter, 5kW peak, in the cable here. We can pair them up for 8kW/10kW as well.
First off I enjoy the videos you guys are putting out.
I’m thinking that the AC appliance that melted on you while using the same voltage DC was not pure resistive or a control (thermostat &/or safety) did not like the DC.
A pure resistive load doesn’t care if the voltage is AC or DC (providing voltage is within range).
Induction load is on AC only & will not work (last long) on DC as the current is limited by induction & without that resistance excessive/destructive current will flow.
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Nobody cares about the technicalities of why one appliance catches fire and the other doesn't.
These are foolish things to say. You want ac for ac appliances so no matter what nerdy reason there is, nothing catches on fucking fire. Nobody cares about technicalities, they only care that their shit doesn't burn down.
This is the biggest group of negative Debbie Downers I have run across in a while. Sorry you guys don't think powering anything off of any electric vehicle is cool.
Also to the person asking about what evs this will work on, watch the other videos including the one where I power my house off a leaf, and explain manual and automatic transfer switches.
Posting in this forum is starting to seem like a mistake.
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Hey! Don't get discouraged because they get off topic ^-^
It'll work on anything that does DC fast charging, right?
-Crissa
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C) That's a stupid excuse. Why have a battery that can't unplug itself (or be unplugged) from the grid? My computer UPS does that just fine without barbecuing linemen.
-Crissa
What do you mean by this?
That it was stupid for Tesla to release the Power Wall before getting approval for using it for a power loss backup?
Or it's stupid to worry about a lineman getting zapped?
The later Power Walls and Robert's have had added switching so now it can be used for this purpose.
This was also in the UK of course but I would think CA power companies would be just as controlling or even more so.
I guess it's no fun bringing up potential issues before they happen to make sure they are avoided. It must be cooler to to deal with those issues in court later on.
Cowboy, having the ability to use your EV to power things does seem like a "neat" extra feature that's why Lucid will have it as standard.
The 5:37 mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOEfZa6DwUo
As well as a feature from, what you think is a fantasy bike company, Damon.
As "the person" who asked what EVs your product will work on, I know you know there is a massive difference in EV voltage and if it has AC only charging or CCS or Chademo all could very well factor into your product working or not with a certain EV.
So far you've mentioned Energica and Leafs, feel free to list all that it works with since this is a sales pitch.
The making a pizza video was cute but you're trying to gauge interest in the product, correct?
Lay out fully what it can and can't do. Ball park the cost and go from there.
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C) That's a stupid excuse. Why have a battery that can't unplug itself (or be unplugged) from the grid? My computer UPS does that just fine without barbecuing linemen.
-Crissa
??? Your UPS puts AC towards the computer stuff only. Not back to the input AC line of the inverter where lineman can get zapped.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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The making a pizza video was cute but you're trying to gauge interest in the product, correct?
No, this video was made for people other than the general public. We released it publicly because it was enjoyable.
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But first there was this from Cowboy: Quote
We are actively seeking funding and hope to make this product available to everyone.
Also... if we are able to get funded, Energica has committed to integrating with our tech to become the worlds first production electric motorcycle to allow power out / v2g/h/x power anything, including your whole house/building!
To me that says: So what do you guys think?
I was having fun with it but Brandon has to be able to take some critical questions that were very fair IMO.
This forum has helped a lot of people and continues to at least try to fix problems and encourage electric motorcycle adoption and I doubt there would be as many sold today without it. It deserves a certain amount of respect, if every comment is agreeable or not.
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@Crissa, thanks, and yes, it works on most all vehicles that can DCFC. Also, the industry standard, plug and play solution to not kill linemen is called an ATS or MTS... yeah... *surprise*! *facepalm*...
@haters, before berating me with all the ways you think things can go wrong, maybe try watching the videos I posted which already go through the multitude technical challenges and how to solve them. This isn't rocket science, its basic electricity. Do you all really think I am going to invent some moronic pizza cooker? Or something that will fry linemen because it doesn't use industry standard and legally required ATS and/or MTS? I never cease to be amazed by peoples density and then desire to double down on being jerks about things they just make up as facts out of thin air. Maybe try not being a negative nancy and actually asking questions, OR WATCHING THE VIDEOS I POST. <- novel idea. Before telling me why the whole thing will come toppling down before you even know what you are talking about.
@New2Elec I know the idea is sound, you already gave two examples of vehicles that may or may not come out in the future that plan to include similar tech. I don't know about Damon, yet. Their promises are bogus right now, but there is still a small chance they may adjust their promises to make a feasible product. They have already reduced the battery size promises.
We are looking for funding to build things out in a proper company, and are not selling people here anything other than spending 3 min watching a fun video. Currently the whole thing including inverter is about the size of a pizza box. You can see it all in the videos I posted in this chain, I even posted a playlist with several videos. Currently we are speaking with 4 major OEM manufacturers interested potentially funding us, but its a lot of work and things to get through. We have been meeting with them for a couple months.
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some moronic pizza cooker
Hey, I paid upwards of $20 for that thing like 12 years ago.
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I'm sorry Morgan, The Pizza was good. And I am sure the inventor is very proud to have designed Amazon's choice for top Pizza cooker.
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??? Your UPS puts AC towards the computer stuff only. Not back to the input AC line of the inverter where lineman can get zapped.
...And yet it knows to disconnect from the line before triggering the inverter...
I can't think of a better use for that goofy pizza appliance. I was rolling with laughter at the skit ^-^
-Crissa
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??? Your UPS puts AC towards the computer stuff only. Not back to the input AC line of the inverter where lineman can get zapped.
...And yet it knows to disconnect from the line before triggering the inverter...
I can't think of a better use for that goofy pizza appliance. I was rolling with laughter at the skit ^-^
-Crissa
The fundamental difference is a UPS for a computer is plugged into a single outlet, when it detects a loss of power it decouples from that outlet, but continues to power what is plugged into it.
A power wall is wired into a breaker in your house power panel - so it feeds the bus bars, all breakers - including the main power breaker.