ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: ultrarnr on September 19, 2020, 03:33:44 PM
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Last Saturday I picked up my 2020 Energica Eva Ribelle nine months exactly after putting a deposit down on it. I arrived home 72 miles later with 24% SOC remaining. With a much bigger battery I was curious about charge times and how long it would take to get back on the road. I plugged into 110 and the bike showed 9hrs, 59 minutes. Didn’t have time for that! So I plugged into 220 and it showed 4 hr 10 minutes. Still too slow! So then I plugged my portable CCS charger which allows the bike to charge at 6kw (from 220 volt outlet) and it showed 1hr, 21 minutes to 80% SOC. So I was able to get another ride in last Saturday, arriving back home after 110 miles and 5% SOC remaining. Plugged into 110 and again it showed 9 hrs, 59 minutes to fully charge. Not sure what is going on with the max charge times at 110 volts. But the Ribelle adds about 4% SOC per hour while charging on 110 so a full charge may take 24 hours or more. No longer can you just plug in a depleted battery and expect to fully charge overnight. The Ribelle with its 21.5 kWh battery can take an entire day to fully charge if 110 is all you have available. I think we have reached the point where potential Ribelle owners need to think about installing a 220 volt outlet to allow L2 charging at home. Subsequent rides showed a charging time on L2 from 2% SOC to 100% SOC to be 5 hrs, 26 minutes. Great for overnight but this will seriously suck if you are on a road trip. Last night I went for a ride and made it home with 4% SOC and decided to try the portable CCS charging to test 6kW charging times. Initially it showed 1hr 58 minutes to 80%. The charging time to 99% was 2 hrs 32 minutes. After 99% SOC the charge rate drops considerably as the battery is balancing and I stopped watching the time.
To fully charge the battery expect charging times as follows:
L1 (1kw): 24 hours+
L2 (3kw): 5:30hrs
6kW charging through CCS port: 2:30hrs.
I have not tried charging from a DCFC yet to see what charge times are like through CCS. I am getting the 600 mile service done today and will use a DCFC after that so will post charge times later.
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It took about 55 minutes to charge my Ribelle from the high teens to 80% at a DCFC charger although in all fairness the battery temp was yellow and I wasn’t getting the max charge rate. I’ll try it again on a cooler day (it was 90+ and I had been riding for well over an hour at an aggressive pace so getting the battery warm wasn’t too surprising).
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My 2018 Zero S, with a Power Tank, (16.6 KWh, nominal) charges at a rate of about 8% SOC per hour on a 120V outlet at around 11-12 amps (less when at a low SOC). Fully charging that battery pack from empty takes a good 12 hours. Does Energica measure their battery capacity the same way Zero does?
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My 2018 Zero S, with a Power Tank, (16.6 KWh, nominal) charges at a rate of about 8% SOC per hour on a 120V outlet at around 11-12 amps (less when at a low SOC). Fully charging that battery pack from empty takes a good 12 hours. Does Energica measure their battery capacity the same way Zero does?
Yep, they both use KWH, list both max and usable when the specs are checked. The Energica shows the charge current as well as the wattage. But the Wattage is rather useless on AC charging because there is no decimal on my SS9. It just show 1 2 or 3 KWs during an AC charge so you see a 1.5 KW charge as a 1. On DC charging it is fine, as then it is showing perhaps 22, 23 or 24 KW. Only need the decimal on AC charging, which my SS9 does NOT have.
It makes more sense to look at miles gained per hour of charge. At 120 VAC, all the bikes should be close to the same amount of miles added per hour as all the 120 VAC chargers are around 1.5 KW DC output or so. 120 VAC x 18 amps=2,160 watts AC input. 90% efficiency makes 1,944 DC watts as the very max to charge with and most 120 VAC chargers (especially on a motorcycle where the charger has to be small) will want to stay well under that. To charge at the full 1.9 KW is little gain in charge time, but more heat and the OBCs would be even less reliable than they are now.
It's going to take longer to charge a larger KWH battery just as it takes longer to fill a larger gas tank. But when you look at miles added per KW of charge (or gallons of gasoline) it is the same as the smaller battery or gas tank.
You do not always have to charge or fill the tank to full. But larger gives you the choice.
But the way I look at it, if there are enough charge stations around, the larger battery is only more useful when you leave the house with a full charge. Otherwise, it's the same time to recharge on the road with a small battery as with a large one, just more stops necessary with the smaller, but about the same amount of total time is used charging either way.
I like to take a break about every hour anyway. So to me, the number of charge stations available is more important than the bike's range. Range should be less important as more charge stations are built away from the larger cities.
-Don- Reno, NV
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So then I plugged my portable CCS charger which allows the bike to charge at 6kw (from 220 volt outlet) and it showed 1hr, 21 minutes to 80% SOC.
I like those numbers, can I ask which CCS charger you recommend?
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PWM, Right now too early to tell. Today on the way home I plugged into a EVGO DCFC. I was at 10% SOC and it said 30 minutes to 80%. That 30 minutes turned into 42 minutes. It started to taper well before 50%. On my old Eva that meant the battery was getting warm. The air temperature was in the upper 60's so I didn't think that could be an issue. I was wrong. When I finally ended the charge the battery icon was yellow. It stayed yellow the entire 58 mile ride home, most of it at 70mph. On my old Eva the only time I saw the battery icon yellow was when the air temps were in the 90s and after charging multiple times with CCS. The bike was at the dealer for a few hours getting the 600 mile service done and it was only 10 miles to the DCFC so there is no way the battery got heated from that. I got my firmware updated during the service and I was hoping it would fix the issue with L1 charging time determination. Right now it still shows 9hr 59 minutes as it has for the past few hours of charging. At some point I guess it really be 9hr and 59 hours till fully charged but I think that is several hours from now.
On my previous Eva Greenlots were the fastest chargers, tapering started later than EVGO did. But Greenlots has turned off all of their DCFC in North Carolina so trying one isn't an option. I may try ChargePoint and see what happens.
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Right now it still shows 9hr 59 minutes as it has for the past few hours of charging. At some point I guess it really be 9hr and 59 hours till fully charged but I think that is several hours from now.
As a software developer myself, I think they decided to make 10 hours the maximum that can be shown on the dash. They could have added a ">" sign somewhere, but clearly Energica doesn't employ many UX designers :)
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DC charging is with green battery: 23 kWh - 75A
With yellow battery 13 kWh - 43A
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... I think they decided to make 10 hours the maximum that can be shown on the dash. ...
Correct, that is the max displayed and agree the > would be a nice feature
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But why would you ever do that? I am not understanding the logic behind having a max reading of 9hrs, 59 minutes when the reality is the charge time could be over twice that.
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But why would you ever do that? I am not understanding the logic behind having a max reading of 9hrs, 59 minutes when the reality is the charge time could be over twice that.
Not apologizing for Energica, but those are Italian bikes where 220V is common. You'd recharge it at up to 2.3 kW using the supplied Granny charger. That'd be around 10h.
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Is the 75A limit only in newer versions of firmware? Currently, I can charge at 80A.
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I have the latest firmware and 75A is the max charging speed for CCS.
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I have the latest firmware and 75A is the max charging speed for CCS.
Does anybody here know what the usable battery voltage range is on the Energicas?
-Don- Reno, NV
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I think I read somewhere in this forum there's a small risk of blowing a fuse when charging at 80 amps, maybe I should limit it until I get the update.
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I think I read somewhere in this forum there's a small risk of blowing a fuse when charging at 80 amps, maybe I should limit it until I get the update.
Is that fuse in the battery pack or somehwere esle that is almost impossible to replace?
-Don- Reno, NV
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Is that fuse in the battery pack or somehwere esle that is almost impossible to replace?
It's the DC charging fuse inside the battery pack.
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DonTom,
At 12% SOC the Eva is at about 291 volts. At 99% SOC it is at 332 volts. Don't have any photos of starting to charge at a lower SOC but guessing it is 280 something down at 5% SOC or lower.
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Assume 280-333vdc
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Yesterday after work I decided to charge on 110 volts instead of 220. Here are a few details:
I plugged in at 5pm.
5pm: 50% SOC, charging at 1kw/6A, 9:59 remaining till 100%
8pm: 60% SOC, charging at 1kw/6A, 9:43 remaining till 100%
9pm: 64% SOC, charging at 1kw/6A, 8:38 remaining till 100%
4am:90% SOC, charging at 1kw/6A, 1:37 remaining till 100%
5am: 94% SOC, charging at 1kw/6A, 0:48 remaining till 100%
6am: 97% SOC, charging at 1kw/6A, balancing
6:30am: 99% SOC, charging at 1kw/6A balancing
It took 3 hours to increase the SOC by 10%
It took 12 hours to increase the SOC by 44%
On my previous Eva107 it could charge from 0-100% in 9 hours.
The chargers are the same size and the Ribelle has a larger battery than the Eva 107 has. But the charge times are far slower than the charger size/battery size would indicate that they would be.
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This afternoon I did another CCS charging with my Ribelle. Here is what the charging curve looks like.
I started charging at 21% SOC.
21%- 72A, 21kw 25 minutes to 80%
37% is when charging began to taper- 67A, 20kw
44%- 58A, 17kw
54%- 49A, 15kw
61%-47A, 14kw
70%- 45A, 14kw
Total charge time to 80% was 35 minutes. Similar to last weekend, total time was 10 minutes longer than claimed when first plugged in.
Air temperature at charging was 72 degrees. In the hours prior to charging my Ribelle was at the dealer. Distance from dealer to charger was 4 miles. The battery was definitely not warm at the start of charging.
When I finished charging the battery icon was yellow and stayed that way for the 64 mile trip home. 30 minutes after arriving home the battery icon was still yellow. Air temp at home was 71 degrees.
Last weekend I added 11.6kWh at an EVgo charger for $13.51
The Electrify America station I charged today at added 9kWH for $3.87
I arrived home with 12% SOC and at 7pm I plugged my Ribelle into my 110 volt charger. If my calculations are correct it should finish charging around 5pm tomorrow afternoon.
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When I finished charging the battery icon was yellow and stayed that way for the 64 mile trip home. 30 minutes after arriving home the battery icon was still yellow. Air temp at home was 71 degrees.
What is yellow? As best as i can tell it spans 40C to 55C and that's allot - be nice if core temperature was digitally displayed...cannot blame Energica however for development steps taken to increase range and trade offs that result - for my application CCS charge won't be a big dependency but then global warming seems real. BTW - chilling down the pack during CCS is the only option to stay out of yellow...think sweaty contact surface kangaroo pouch thingy w/ flap...stop at McDonalds and get a 32oz cup of ice and 8oz of water...amazing cooling potential and stows away efficiently.
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That sounds neat! I wonder how you'd spread the heat so there's no spots with too much temperature difference.
-Crissa
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PWM, It was rare for my Eva 107 to heat the battery up to the level of the yellow icon even when doing multiple CCS charges in a single day. On times when it did it quickly cooled down to green once riding again. There was only one time that it didn't do that, temps were in the 90's and after the 3rd CCS charge the icon stayed yellow the entire time for the 55 mile ride home. There are obviously many differences in the battery packs of the Eva 107 and the Eva Ribelle. But the Eva 107's battery has far better heat management than the Riblelle's battery does. But I really wonder if the Ribelle's temperature sensor in the battery is accurate. When I had my Zero SR the motor temperature always seemed to read almost 10 degrees warmer than ambient. And this was when Zero had a problem with the motors getting hot and I think it had more to do with faulty sensor than it did with motor design.
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After using CCS a few more times since getting my Ribelle, I can confirm that all it takes is one CCS charge (high teens/low 20’s to 80%) to get the battery temp indicator to go yellow. With the temps here in the inland SF Bay Area staying in the 80s and 90s, it stays yellow the rest of my rides.
I haven’t had it go red and I haven’t done more than one CCS charge in a day but it definitely appears to be a difference in heat management between the 21kw batteries and the 13kw battery on my EsseEsse9.
My EsseEsse9 has been able to take two CCS charges in the same day before going yellow and seems to cool down quicker than my Ribelle given enough cool air flow although the number of cool days has been few this summer.
I’ll play around with CCS charging and long rides more once fall weather kicks in and the riding temps drop into the low to mid 70’s to see how the 21kw battery performs compared to the 13kw.
The above being said, after getting used to the range limits on the EsseEsse9, I have zero range anxiety with my Ribelle. Definitely glad I picked up the bigger battery bike despite the potential thermal management concerns. Not to mention the more I ride the two bikes back to back, the more impressed I am with the power difference between the two bikes.
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https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Bgvzv7b/0/572d6164/O/i-Bgvzv7b.jpg
For Ribelle coin represented I will ask Energica if they can swap a 13.4k battery as an option to take delivery...I'm that concerned.
Will the Ribelle w/ windshield go 80% capacity, at what steady-state speed, at what given ambient condition w/o going yellow?
Hate constraints on riding so need to do something...
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What is that CHILL-EXCHANGER all about?
Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
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https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Bgvzv7b/0/572d6164/O/i-Bgvzv7b.jpg
For Ribelle coin represented I will ask Energica if they can swap a 13.4k battery as an option to take delivery...I'm that concerned.
Will the Ribelle w/ windshield go 80% capacity, at what steady-state speed, at what given ambient condition w/o going yellow?
Hate constraints on riding so need to do something...
I doubt you’ll be able to get a Ribelle with the 13kw battery, you’ll probably have to look into an older EVA 107 if you want the 13kw battery.
All of our notes about battery temps and charge speeds hasn’t stopped me from doing 2-3 hour rides on my Ribelle and doing CCS charges as needed. For me, it’s merely an observation of the differences in behavior between my 13kw and 21kw bikes.
Overall, I have no regrets about adding the 21kw bike and I definitely ride it hard on most of my backroad rides. I like no longer giving range a second thought like I do on my 13kw bike.
Granted I haven’t done any long distance rides on my Ribelle but that’s mainly because my back doesn’t like the more aggressive riding position for more than an hour or so at a time. But for backroad aggressive riding, it’s the one I go to every time over my EsseEsse9.
It would be interesting to hear from EsseEsse9+ owners since I imagine they would be more likely to do long distance riding/touring with the more comfortable riding position.
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For Ribelle coin represented I will ask Energica if they can swap a 13.4k battery as an option to take delivery...I'm that concerned.
I have already asked the question in reverse, can my 13.4KWH battery be replaced with the 21.5KWH battery. There are other differences, even in the same model, between the two battery sizes. Many cables would have to be changed and it would probably be more expensive for that to be done than to upgrade to the bike with the larger battery.
So the reverse must be as true. IOW, you're stuck with whatever battery size the bike came with.
-Don- Reno, NV
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IOW, you're stuck with whatever battery size the bike came with.
-Don- Reno, NV
Agreed. One of my frequent commutes, PDX to Corvallis, requires bigger battery and the 3-5hr typical campus visit fits the Ribelle perfectly for back road travel and modest charge time demand to make it back home. It is what it is...thoughts of swapping to a 13.4 pack is just expressing frustration...
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Hey guys, I just took delivery of my very first E-bike(2021 EVA Ribelle), I love it! I do how ever have an issue when I'm charging it(very first charge). The bike is cool, and the garage is about 78 degrees, the charger is plugged in to a regular good ol' home A/C 110v outlet, after an hour, I went to check on it, and I noticed the charging has stopped, all three(green,red,blue) leds on the charger was on solid. I've checked the chart, and I believe is in overheat protection mode. Any how, restarted the charger, and a hour later, same thing, again and again.....anyone else had this issue, or heard of it? Please help, I never had an pure electric vehicle before, don't know what's going on? FYI, the closest Energica dealership is over 250 miles away. Thanks guys.
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Do you have access to 220 volt charging? I have had problems with 110 volt charging several times with it cutting off. Never tried to trouble shoot it though. Charging from 220 volts has been flawless.
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Next time I need to charge up my Ribelle, I'll use my 110v charger. I've only used 240v and DC charging on my Ribelle since owning it. I have done 110v, 240v, and DC charging on my 13kw EsseEsse and I've never experienced an issue like the one described by daviddi888.
I'll post back here once I do a 110v on the Ribelle and see if I experience any issues.
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I tried charging from 110V yesterday for the first time in a few weeks just to see how it would go. At 7:21 pm I plugged in with 9% SOC. I went to bed at about 1030pm and the bike was still charging, was at 21%. I woke up at 4:30 am this morning to find the bike not charging and turned off. I turned the bike on to find the bike at 20% SOC. There were no fault or error messages that might explain why the bike decided to stop charging. I unplugged the charger and plugged it back in and it is charging again. Will see how long it charges now. But needing to add 80% means it could take another 20 hours to fully charge since it only adds about 4% SOC per hour. Depending on how much you ride everyday you may need to charge from 220 volts just to have a fully charged bike everyday. Energica has really slowed down the charging speeds on the Ribelle and the days of just charging overnight from 110 volts are gone. The Eva 107 I had could fully charge in a bit over 9 hours. The Ribelle can take over 24+ hours to fully charge from 110 volts.
Wish I could tell you something more about what the charging problem is other than you aren't the only one. Is installing a 220 volt outlet an option for you? Right now I am betting that if it is possible you could get an electrician to install a 220 volt outlet and buy a 220 volt charger faster than Energica can fix the charging problem. And you might need to charge from 220 if you ride enough anyway.
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Update: I checked the Ribelle at 0720 to find it off and not charging. I turned it on and it was at 26% SOC. As before, no fault codes or error messages to explain why charging stopped. I unplugged the charger and plugged it back in and it started to charge again.
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I plugged my Ribelle into my 110v charger last night after a spirited ride. Started in the 30%’ish state of charge. I just unplugged it after a little over 8 hours and it was in the low 70% range. No other issues but I didn’t let it go to it’s 80% SoC preset.
I’m using the Clipper Creek charger that came with my 13kw EsseEsse9 and it’s plugged into a GFCI 120v outlet.
With the larger battery in the Ribelle, I doubt I’ll use the 110v charger again other than for long term storage mode.
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BigPoppa, Sounds like yours is charging fine. I checked mine again at 0830 and it had stopped charging again. But this time there was a "Undefined Fault Contact Service" Message on the screen. Something that seemed a bit odd was the fact that there was also a ! symbol next to the TC icon and it was yellow. I turned the bike off, turned it back on and everything cleared. Have it charging again just to see how long it goes before stopping and if the message returns.
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Ok, last update, I give up on 110 volt charging. I restarted the charging at 0830. Checked it at 1000 and it had stopped charging and was turned off. I turned the bike back on and it was at 37% SOC. Again no error messages of any kind. I checked again at 1130 and it had stopped charging but the bike was still on and the Undefined Fault message was showing. The TC icon also had the ! next to it and it was yellow. So I decided to see if there was anything on the Energica app that could shed some light on what was going on. There was a page that claimed the bike was moving at 73 miles and hour and the motor was spinning at 4550 RPM and using 5kw of power and delivering 11 ftlbs of torque. This might be why the TC icon on the dash is showing yellow with a ! next to it. So maybe the reason that the charging is being turned off is that somehow the Ribelle thinks it is traveling down the road at 73 MPH (while stationary in my garage) and you can't charge and ride at the same time so it turns the charging off. But this malicious code only works when the bike is charging on 110 volts, not 220 or CCS.
I am also going to make a wild guess and say the people who wrote the code for Eva 107 are not the same people who are writing the code for the Ribelle. Never saw this kind of crazy stuff on my Eva 107.
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Definitely sounds like some kind of sensor isn’t working properly if the bike thinks it’s moving while stationary and charging. Hopefully you can get it into your closest dealer and have them diagnose it.
I wonder if it could be related to the fan on the AC charger. The fan on my 13kw EsseEsse9 seems to be temperature controlled meaning it only comes on when the charger gets warm whereas the fan on the Ribelle’s charger seems to be a simple on/off affair. I wonder if the fan running for extended periods of time due to slower 110v charging could be a contributing factor.
Just a wild guess from me...I’m no expert, just an observation.
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When the app's giving you all those stats while your bike's clearly not moving, it means that the app's in demo mode, and it hasn't established a Bluetooth connection yet.
ultrarnr, have you tried using a different AC charger? Also, try plugging into an outlet which isn't on the same circuit where you're having charging problems.
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Sklith,
For day-to-day charging I charge from 220 volts which so far has been flawless. The 110 volt charger I have is the Clipper Creek model that I got with my Eva 107 and never had any issues with it. But right now with my commute 100 volt charging is too slow.
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Sklith,
Decided to explore the phone app more tonight and can confirm the numbers I posted are showing when there is connectivity. My Ribelle has a lot of seemingly software related issues, this is just one example.