ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: 2014ZeroSR on September 18, 2020, 06:43:43 AM
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Is there a full 10 amps avail, if so where?
Minimum wire size for:
[1] 5 amp - 18 ga
[2] 10 amp - 16 ga
Fuse 6 - rated at 5 amps [per the manual, pg 70]
Back of F6
bottom wire is brown, looks to be a 14 ga wire (at least 16 ga)
top is blue, looks to be 18 ga
F6 is the source for the unused connector (hidden behind the dash), normally used for the official USB outlet.
This thread was helpful but .....
“12v supply”, « on: March 25, 2019, 03:10:04 AM » by Anubis-R
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Gauge of wire safe for amps varies by length as well.
-Crissa
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Gauge of wire safe for amps varies by length as well.
-Crissa
Length is more about the voltage drop than safety.
See attached for a chart.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Gauge of wire safe for amps varies by length as well.
-Crissa
Crissa - Thanks for the reminder.
I've decided to keep F6 as a 5 amp fuse per the manual.
As of this writing, having limited info, I'm unwilling to make any mods to the bike that might damage it, e.g. [1] replace the 5 amp with a 10 amp fuse, [2] tap into the brown wire.
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Gauge of wire safe for amps varies by length as well.
-Crissa
Crissa - Thanks for the reminder.
I've decided to keep F6 as a 5 amp fuse per the manual.
As of this writing, having limited info, I'm unwilling to make any mods to the bike that might damage it, e.g. [1] replace the 5 amp with a 10 amp fuse, [2] tap into the brown wire.
What is it that you're trying to run at 10 amps at ~13 volts?
-Don- Reno, NV
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What is it that you're trying to run at 10 amps at ~13 volts?
-Don- Reno, NV
Any combination not to exceed 8 amps.
Items -
Tracker (APRS)
Driving / fog led lights
GPS
Cell phone
Dash cam
Heated gloves
Heated jacket
Heated grips
maybe other items
With only 5 amps available, I’ll have to decide what’s a priority.
Off the bike, I’ll have to perform a load test of each item to ensure the 5 amp max will not be exceeded [actually 4 amps, no more than 80%].
When I run the 17 Eva, I normally ride all day, between 250-450 miles, so come winter, heated items would be preferred.
With Electrify America now charging per KW vice per minute in California, I'll probably try a 600 mile day soon.
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Heated gloves
I use these (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KYMY2Q3/ref=emc_b_5_t)with a couple of spare batteries. They are quite warm even when turned off.
Your "priority" on the other stuff should be the stuff that draws low current. Heat and lamps draw high current, the other stuff should be low enough to add.
I added a 12 volt outlet (https://www.amazon.com/BlueFire-Waterproof-Motorcycle-Handlebar-Cigarette/dp/B075D8C565/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=motorcycle+12+volt+outlet&qid=1600499625&sr=8-4) to my Esse Esse 9, but I usually only have my GPS plugged in, which I have a charge station directory for each AC & CCS charging.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I went with the battery powered Gerbing gloves to avoid having to find a tap for my 12v Gerbing gloves. I ended up throwing in my 12v gloves when I sold my Trophy to make room for the second Energica. Since it rarely gets below freezing on my commute here in the SF Bay Area, the battery powered gloves, heated grips, and a good sweater/sweatshirt layered under my winter jacket is sufficient for me.
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I went with the battery powered Gerbing gloves to avoid having to find a tap for my 12v Gerbing gloves. I ended up throwing in my 12v gloves when I sold my Trophy to make room for the second Energica. Since it rarely gets below freezing on my commute here in the SF Bay Area, the battery powered gloves, heated grips, and a good sweater/sweatshirt layered under my winter jacket is sufficient for me.
I figure a 12 volt outlet can be used for other stuff as well, such as for a small tire pump if necessary. IIRC, I am using a ten amp circuit that isn't used for other stuff, such as the bike's heated grips that I do not have and I carry a small tire pump that draws a bit less than that under load.
IMO, it would make a lot more sense if Energica would have a 12V outlet instead of USB. It is easy to convert 12 VDC to USB as necessary with a one dollar plug in converter thingy sold at the dollar stores (half amp). Or get a better two amp one elsewhere, still cheap. Not so easy to convert the 5 VDC USB back to 12 and then the current would be too low for most things anyway.
Even on a bike with the heated grips, that circuit would be a good ten amp circuit to use, just keep the heated grips off while it is used for other stuff to not get over the ten amps.
On cold days, I won't be using electric anyway. Reno can get very cold. I have ridden in the 20's a few times and the TTSE is a great for extra cold weather. I have the heated seat as well as the heated grips on that bike and it is wired up for my heated jacket and 12 volt heated gloves as well. And then it has the traction control which could help if I accelerate over ice that I cannot see to avoid.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Does anyone know how many watts the DC/DC converter puts out?
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Does anyone know how many watts the DC/DC converter puts out?
IIRC, Energica doesn't use a DC 2 DC converter. It uses a battery tap for it's 13 volts. I don't know how much current it could handle, but I would not want to add much more than ten amps to what is already there. The wiring for the 13 volts doesn't look like it's designed to handle much more. I think your best bet would be to add your own fuse and see if you can get to the circuit they use to feed their fuses. That would have to be designed for the entire 13 VDC load and would be the best place to get your DC from.
All I did on mine was to run wires from the SS9 USB input wires which is my 13 volts to run my GPS. IIRC, I should be good for ten amps, but so far have only used my GPS with it.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Where is it getting the 12v if it has no DC to DC?
If you tap off a battery half way, how do you balance the cells back?
-Crissa
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Where is it getting the 12v if it has no DC to DC?
Batteries are made up from low voltages cells in series. Simply tap off at the voltage you want.
In fact, I think even Zero uses such a tap but also has the DC2DC converter. Didn't we hear here that the tap was used energize the contactor in the Zero? I think that was what Brian said here, IIRC.
If you tap off a battery half way, how do you balance the cells back?
I don't see an issue there as when you're charging, you're not using and balancing I would think would work normally.
-Don- Reno, NV
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But the more you use the diversion, the more those cells age disproportionately to the cells later in the pack. So it shouldn't be used for anything but the tiniest of loads.
-Crissa
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But the more you use the diversion, the more those cells age disproportionately to the cells later in the pack. So it shouldn't be used for anything but the tiniest of loads.
-Crissa
All that 12 volt stuff is a tiny load compared to the battery cell capacity.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Not once you start plugging heaters and stuff that takes more than miliamps like that contactor.
-Crissa
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Energica doesn't use a DC 2 DC converter.
Actually Energica bikes do have a DC/DC converter, located inside the battery pack. This unit provides all the 12v power to the bike when the key is turned to the on position.
Regarding the OP's question about the power capabilities of the 12v coming off fuse #6. The earlier bikes shipped with a 5A fuse in this slot, the newer bikes (2019?) come with a 10A fuse.
I am not sure if there was also a change to the wire gauge of the harness.
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Actually Energica bikes do have a DC/DC converter, located inside the battery pack. This unit provides all the 12v power to the bike when the key is turned to the on position.
OIC.
If the DC2DC converter fails, is it replaceable or does the entire battery need to be replaced? And how much current can it handle and how much does the bike use? I am really asking how much current can be safety drawn from it in stuff that is added to the bike.
-Don- Reno, NV
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IIRC, Energica doesn't use a DC 2 DC converter. It uses a battery tap for it's 13 volts.
Can this be confirmed please?
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"IIRC, Energica doesn't use a DC 2 DC converter. It uses a battery tap for it's 13 volts."
Can this be confirmed please?
Nope! It was just unconfirmed. See the message above from Demoni.
I am not sure what made me think it used a battery tap, I wonder if I saw a block diagram somewhere that simply showed the wire coming out to the battery pack that was really from the DC2DC converter that's located inside the battery.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Nope! It was just unconfirmed. See the message above from Demoni.
Phew! Thank you for the clarity - I should have looked.
BTW - if a 2nd DC-DC converter is added to bike, same Energica one integrated to battery pack but obviously packaged for auxiliary use, this could be an approach to sourcing more juice for winter heated clothing...just a thought. I'm planning a small LiFePO4 14V pack tucked into tank bag versus any invasive mods to bike...plus, exposure to sub freezing temperatures for charging (regen inclusive) causes irreversible damage to cell anode structure hence why I'm keeping an ICE vehicle available for extreme cold riding. Begs the question, does Energica employ a low-temperature inhibit for charging? Harley-Davidson does not based on the first three episodes of Long Way Up.
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Phew! Thank you for the clarity - I should have looked.
BTW - if a 2nd DC-DC converter is added to bike, same Energica one integrated to battery pack but obviously packaged for auxiliary use, this could be an approach to sourcing more juice for winter heated clothing...just a thought. I'm planning a small LiFePO4 14V pack tucked into tank bag versus any invasive mods to bike...plus, exposure to sub freezing temperatures for charging (regen inclusive) causes irreversible damage to cell anode structure hence why I'm keeping an ICE vehicle available for extreme cold riding. Begs the question, does Energica employ a low-temperature inhibit for charging? Harley-Davidson does not based on the first three episodes of Long Way Up.
IMO, ICE bikes are much better for cold weather. Engine heat helps on some bikes and adding to the 13 volt system is usually not an issue. And your range isn't reduced as it is on electric bikes. Just better all they way around, IMO. I have ridden in the 20's (F) a few times (-4c). I would not then consider an electric for here where it can get very cold in the winter.
In the SF Bay area, and many other places, having an electric for all year would be fine, IMO.
But in hot weather, electric bikes are great. Best range, no engine heat. No need to add heated stuff.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I got caught in the snow-thunderstorm last winter.
It wasn't the parts of me facing the bike that needed heat!
-Crissa
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I got caught in the snow-thunderstorm last winter.
There in Santa Cruz?
The day I purchased my Moto Guzzi, it did not look like snow when I left the shop with it. By the time I got it home, it was HEAVY snow. I could not even get the bike into the garage because by then the snow was too deep in my driveway. And there were car accidents caused from the snow on the way home! Getting the bike to my driveway was one of my most scary rides and I am amazed I didn't fall off the bike by the time I got it back. I think those dual sport tires on this bike did great in the snow!
It wasn't the parts of me facing the bike that needed heat!
My TTSE has heated grips, heated seat, traction control, ABS and about the best wind protection of any bike I own. An excellent cold weather bike. And it is wired up for plug in heated vests and gloves.
The Moto Guzzi does well also in the cold also, it has those big leg warmers called engine cylinders. But my Harley has the hottest grips. Six selections from mild to burning hands. My Moto Guzzi also has the heated grips. Over all, my TTSE is my favorite cold weather bike.
I don't even bother with the electrics in cold weather. So with those, I don't care about adding heated anything.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I got caught in the snow-thunderstorm last winter.
There in Santa Cruz?
At Skyline, yeah!
I hadta get to San Jose and there were thunderstorms and I have rain gear so I bundled up and shot the gap between lines of storms but behind the thunderstorms it decided to snow so by the time I got to the top, it was slush and snow everywhere.
I decided (wisely I think) not to stop and take pictures.
-Crissa