ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: Ronhogwarts on September 08, 2020, 04:44:56 AM
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I took an Eva EsseEsse9 2018 for a demo ride (UK), the bike was brilliant but failed to DC fast charge on this Engenie, stuck on the initialisation screen despite unplugging and trying several times with plug inserted or charger started first. What are people's experience DC charging with the different chargers and networks especially in the UK? Poor compatibility could be a deal-breaker, so I'm hoping this is an isolated issue. Instavolt and Ecotricity are of particular interest in the UK.
I have heard about several techniques to get it working or ways to get the diagnostic codes. Any feedback or experience of DC fast charging, especially in the UK would be helpful to build up an idea of what to expect.
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I took an Eva EsseEsse9 2018 for a demo ride (UK), the bike was brilliant but failed to DC fast charge on this Engenie, stuck on the initialisation screen despite unplugging and trying several times with plug inserted or charger started first. What are people's experience DC charging with the different chargers and networks especially in the UK? Poor compatibility could be a deal-breaker, so I'm hoping this is an isolated issue. Instavolt and Ecotricity are of particular interest in the UK.
I have heard about several techniques to get it working or ways to get the diagnostic codes. Any feedback or experience of DC fast charging, especially in the UK would be helpful to build up an idea of what to expect.
I cannot speak for the UK, but here in the USA it is sometimes important to NOT follow the instructions on the machine.
For an example, some CCS chargers say to plug in first, but if I do it will never work. I sometimes have to activate the charger when NOT plugged in and then it will work. Different CCS chargers are often made by different companies and some even by the same company may be running older firmware. What works well at one station many not work at another.
There have been many times I had to play around with the charge station to get it to work, but so far, I have always been able to get them to work by one method or another, usually by the third try. I have gotten many errors on the charger stations (but not on the bike's screen) before getting it to work. But other times, it works on the very first try.
YMMV
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I have a 2018 SS9, and sometimes indeed, not following the sequence can help. Also there is a limited time window to get the charging going after initialization started. Otherwise plug in and out again. A connector not locking is also a possibility.
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(This is true for J-plugs, too.)
-Crissa
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(This is true for J-plugs, too.)
-Crissa
J1772 is just AC into the vehicle charger, much like an AC outlet. J1772's are not chargers at all. Not to any more of a degree than a house AC outlet.
The CCS DC chargers run a rather complicated program.
I know in some cases, the problems are caused by CCS firmware updates in the CCS chargers. They update the FW, but do not always change their old written instructions.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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(This is true for J-plugs, too.)
-Crissa
J1772 is just AC into the vehicle charger, much like an AC outlet. J1772's are not chargers at all. Not to any more of a degree than a house AC outlet.
The CCS DC chargers run a rather complicated program.
I know in some cases, the problems are caused by CCS firmware updates in the CCS chargers. They update the FW, but do not always change their old written instructions.
-Don- Auburn, CA
None of that changes that even J-plugs suffer from the 'sometimes it needs to see that you're plugged in first, sometimes it wants to know nothing is plugged in first' problem.
-Crissa
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I have a 2018 SS9, and sometimes indeed, not following the sequence can help. Also there is a limited time window to get the charging going after initialization started. Otherwise plug in and out again. A connector not locking is also a possibility.
To get back on-topic, I had the same issue on the weekend. The station wanted me to plug in before pressing "Start" on the display and presenting a RFID card. Then the communication would time out. Instead, I pressed start first, presented the RFID card and immediately plugged in after successful authentication. This did the trick after a few seconds of "DC initializing". It was an ABB charger if that is important, and I got 24 kW from 40 to 80% :)
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None of that changes that even J-plugs suffer from the 'sometimes it needs to see that you're plugged in first, sometimes it wants to know nothing is plugged in first' problem.
If you're talking about how the J1772 switches on when there is a connection, that's true. But that in no way compares with what happens with CCS where there is more communication between the vehicle and charge station. That sometimes is sometimes tricky just to get it started.
I have never had an issue getting a J1772 to start. It happens fairly often with CCS, and I assume everybody who uses CCS a lot has experienced such a few times. Usually not a big deal, as most of the time we get it to work by the third try, but it is rather annoying to have to keep on unplugging for each error.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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But that in no way compares with what happens with CCS...
I mean, mechanically, it's the same problem. The user can't change the programming communication at all, that's invisible. And if the instructions on the station are wrong, well, they're just as wrong.
-Crissa
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I have heard about several techniques to get it working or ways to get the diagnostic codes. Any feedback or experience of DC fast charging, especially in the UK would be helpful to build up an idea of what to expect.
The authentication hand-shake seems rather complex...
https://v2g-clarity.com/knowledgebase/basics-of-plug-and-charge/
It may behoove us to get more specific on which technique works for which charge station because it's doubtful all players are in full compliance to the various protocol standards. These work-around techniques are likely repeatable for a given charge station OEM and documenting such info can help isolate the issue e.g. Energica is a small fish in the large EV pond hence not likely a test-case for acceptance testing by charge station OEMs.
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I do have an eva 80 kW 2018 (Europe) with Firware 28, and never have been able to DC charge...
My dealer said that there was an update of "DC language" post 2017 and mine may not have been updated...
What a pain in the ass to make it replaced... my dealer is stuck since 6 months with Energica to find a solution...
I hope this is not your case...
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I do have an eva 80 kW 2018 (Europe) with Firware 28, and never have been able to DC charge...
My dealer said that there was an update of "DC language" post 2017 and mine may not have been updated...
What a pain in the ass to make it replaced... my dealer is stuck since 6 months with Energica to find a solution...
I hope this is not your case...
I have a 2018 SS9 and almost exclusively DC fast charge. Get the newest firmware and, if it's not working, request a new Charge Manager. Your bike is under warranty.
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And if the instructions on the station are wrong, well, they're just as wrong.
The problem is the instructions are on the charger itself, not the screen, so it doesn't get updates when the FW does. Such as the "Electrify America" CCS chargers which the instructions always say "plug in first". You should only do that when you want it NOT to work. At least on some of them in the past depending on its FW version.
What always works is to activate the machine via the Electrify America app while it is NOT plugged in to the vehicle. Then the charger FW version doesn't matter. At least that is my experience with them so far.
I prefer the ones that have their own card, such as EV-GO, ChargePoint, GreenLots and I think all the others. I think Electrify America is the only one that doesn't have a card. Not counting Tesla Superchargers which needs no card, it just reads the VIN number when connected and the charge is automatic to my Tesla account. The easiest of all to use and never had a problem, but I have only supercharged my Tesla a few times in the two years I have owned it.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I have a 2018 SS9 and almost exclusively DC fast charge. Get the newest firmware and, if it's not working, request a new Charge Manager. Your bike is under warranty.
[/quote]
It's not anymore under warranty anymore because they waited during 8 months to try something...
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You may wish to double check that, warranty is usually at point of report, not point of repair. So if you reported it, and they didn't fix it, the warranty running out wouldn't matter.
I can't say for your country, but that seems unlikely to be different.
-Crissa
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You may wish to double check that, warranty is usually at point of report, not point of repair. So if you reported it, and they didn't fix it, the warranty running out wouldn't matter.
I can't say for your country, but that seems unlikely to be different.
-Crissa
IIRC, Anubis-R is in France. The standard EU-mandated 2-year warranty ("Legal guarantee of conformity") of should apply, and the date of reporting seems to be definitely the deciding factor:
https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/en/consumer-topics/buying-goods-services/guarantees-warranties/guarantees-warranties-in-france/legal-guarantee-of-conformity/ (https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/en/consumer-topics/buying-goods-services/guarantees-warranties/guarantees-warranties-in-france/legal-guarantee-of-conformity/)
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If the report is done during warranty period in Europe, it falls under warranty until that specific problem is resolved.
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thanks for your replies, that's encouraging :)
even if I can't have any answer from anybody from energica... not my dealer nor anybody else...
that's really depressing :'( I find US dealers to be very proactive and customer oriented, wish it was the same in EU...
hope they will take care of it...
here is the only answer of my dealer :
"apparently, Energica said your bike does not have DC fast charge" ... seems very strange to me... i remeber that every '18 bike (before + versions) have DC fast charge on all bikes
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Don't know if previous models could be ordered without DCFC....but a SS9 has fast charge as an option on Energica website
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Reini gave the OP the best answer, ignore whatever the charge company put on their screen, swipe the rfid and hit the start button first, before you say you cant, give it a try. Then plug it in. Works flawlessly this way for me. A lot of the charge companies are just buying certified Whitelabel units that comply with the Government funding requirements and putting their own UI on top. Thats fine and all, but they don't really know how things work, so sometimes the instructions do not work for all vehicles.
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The Electric Cowboy has alot of miles under his butt, take his advice ^-^
And when in doubt, poke the buttons in a different order.
-Crissa
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Opening up a old thread but one that relates to me. I just tried to charge my 2023 ss9 and 2 stations and 8 different plugs and nothing work. Spent about an hour over all trying Charge point and electrify America. These were in the US citys about 20 miles south of Denver. I read this post before I bought my bike and tried to start the charge before I plugged it in. Ill give it another try in the near future but damn, 1st attempt MANY tries and I failed to get DC charging. Kinda worries me.
Joe
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Opening up a old thread but one that relates to me. I just tried to charge my 2023 ss9 and 2 stations and 8 different plugs and nothing work. Spent about an hour over all trying Charge point and electrify America. These were in the US citys about 20 miles south of Denver. I read this post before I bought my bike and tried to start the charge before I plugged it in. Ill give it another try in the near future but damn, 1st attempt MANY tries and I failed to get DC charging. Kinda worries me.
Joe
On some of them, do NOT follow the instructions on the screen. Especially with Electrify America. Do NOT plug in first and give it a try. And if possible, use their EA app.
The newer versions of ChargePoint have an issue on the newer than 2020 Energicas. Nothing that can be done about that until they redo the FW.
CCS can be a hassle, as you just found out. Many do not work and then add the compatibility issues. But there are still things you can try, often NOT plugging in first does the trick. Especially on those that have the instruction right on the machine to "plug in first". such as the EA CCS chargers. Try again, but do NOT follow their instructions! Follow mine instead!
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Agreed, I made sure I did not plug in 1st. I started my app and started everything before plugging in. Still nothing. Just gave a vague error that charging vehicle failed to start.
Ill keep trying, I love riding it around.
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Agreed, I made sure I did not plug in 1st. I started my app and started everything before plugging in. Still nothing. Just gave a vague error that charging vehicle failed to start.
Ill keep trying, I love riding it around.
I have the most trouble with EA chargers, but not all of them. The ones in Fernley, NV work well for me. The ones in Elk Grove, I can never get to work. But I have not been back there for a while.
See if you can find an EV-GO somewhere.
BTW, the new version of the ChargePoints only have an issue with the newer bikes. They work fine with my 2020 with the smaller battery.
-Don-Auburn, CA
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Ok cool, That was my other though. Maybe my bike has something wrong with it, not set up for DC charging or not compatible with any chargers. Ill keep messing with it, it was my first time testing.
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Well good news, went back to one of the previous electrify America chargers and got it working. Popped the seat, started the app, chose the correct station, plugged in and then swiped to start. ( I know I tried these exact steps last time) 30ish seconds later it was charging. Also impressive is going from 67% to 80% in 6 minutes.
Im happy I got it to work.
Joe
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Well good news, went back to one of the previous electrify America chargers and got it working. Popped the seat, started the app, chose the correct station, plugged in and then swiped to start. ( I know I tried these exact steps last time) 30ish seconds later it was charging. Also impressive is going from 67% to 80% in 6 minutes.
Im happy I got it to work.
Joe
You will discover that CCS is kinda flakey and often takes several attempts to get it past the initialization stage. Never walk away from the bike until it gets past the initialization stage and actually starts charging.
IMO, it's a big hassle to need to disconnect and reconnect the cable for each time there is an initialization failure. I wish they could put that on a button somewhere for a retry.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I have a 2021 SS9 and regularly charge in the UK. In general, the main problem is to find charges that are unocuppied. I very seldom have had to walk away from a charger, but it often takes more than on try to initialize. Some of the older chargers (BP, POLAR, etc) are more prone to issues. Due to availability, I try to use larger groupings of chargers (Gridserve are great!), this way is far more likely there isn´t a queue and if a charger doesn´t cooperate I try the next one.
That said, sequence and even how you hold the cable during initialization can make a difference. I had a DC charge controller installed temporareily in the SS9 (while diagnosing variations on DC charge amps and early "DC Balancing") and while I was always able to charge, I almost always had to try several times. This went away once the controller was replaced (the DC "bouncing amps" was fixed separately by a factory rep.
Heck, I am on my way back from a 2,185 mi. (round trip) in the UK and Spain charged on the road over 34 times and did not get stranded, I did encounter some non fucntioning/malfunctioning chargers, especially in Spain though.
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I took an Eva EsseEsse9 2018 for a demo ride (UK), the bike was brilliant but failed to DC fast charge on this Engenie, stuck on the initialisation screen despite unplugging and trying several times with plug inserted or charger started first. What are people's experience DC charging with the different chargers and networks especially in the UK? Poor compatibility could be a deal-breaker, so I'm hoping this is an isolated issue. Instavolt and Ecotricity are of particular interest in the UK.
I have heard about several techniques to get it working or ways to get the diagnostic codes. Any feedback or experience of DC fast charging, especially in the UK would be helpful to build up an idea of what to expect.
(http://)
Hi, I ride an Energica in the UK. Sometimes you just have to fuck around a bit to find the right procedure.
- Hold the plug in against the socket until the little latch comes up as the weight of the cable can slightly unseat it and cause communication and locking issues due to the horizontal mounting. If you can support the cable on the handlebar it'll alleviate the issue.
- The bike has a timeout and starts counting the moment you put the plug in, this is incredibly annoying especially with some chargers that want you to plug in and then authorise (stop doing that charging networks). You might need to mess around a bit with the procedure to get it to work, one trick is to let the bike time out and then start the procedure again from the machine as the bike will wake up and start counting at the same time the machine does.
- Check Zap-Map or other services, charger reliability is an increasing problem and they often break in non-obvious ways and aren't taken out of service by the operators when they do.
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Well good news, went back to one of the previous electrify America chargers and got it working. Popped the seat, started the app, chose the correct station, plugged in and then swiped to start. ( I know I tried these exact steps last time) 30ish seconds later it was charging. Also impressive is going from 67% to 80% in 6 minutes.
Im happy I got it to work.
Joe
You will discover that CCS is kinda flakey and often takes several attempts to get it past the initialization stage. Never walk away from the bike until it gets past the initialization stage and actually starts charging.
IMO, it's a big hassle to need to disconnect and reconnect the cable for each time there is an initialization failure. I wish they could put that on a button somewhere for a retry.
-Don- Auburn, CA
If I am not mistaken, pushing the disconnect lever on the side of the charge cable like you are going to disconnect it, should click a micro switch, which is what tells it you are disconnected. (assuming it is working properly) shouldn't this be all you really need to do, is press the side lever on the charge plug but not actually have to pull it out? Maybe need to hold it 'open' for a second or two but try that see how it does?
Aaron
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If I am not mistaken, pushing the disconnect lever on the side of the charge cable like you are going to disconnect it, should click a micro switch, which is what tells it you are disconnected. (assuming it is working properly) shouldn't this be all you really need to do, is press the side lever on the charge plug but not actually have to pull it out? Maybe need to hold it 'open' for a second or two but try that see how it does?
Aaron
I will give that a try--but I will be very surprised if it works! I will let you know, but won't be any time soon. Too much snow on the ground here and it has been extra cold.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I found that if the charger doesn't care whether you actually removed the cable you can just leave it in and take no action and the bike will just wake up and start initializing again as soon as you re-initiate from the charger end.
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I found that if the charger doesn't care whether you actually removed the cable you can just leave it in and take no action and the bike will just wake up and start initializing again as soon as you re-initiate from the charger end.
Things could be different in the UK. Here they do care. At least all the ones I have tried.
-Don- Reno, NV
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THB I would think they really SHOULD care.
if you go unplugging a hot cable thats at 300 volts with a few hundred amps flowing across it, that's going to be a pretty impressive emerald green arc you draw, which is going to tear some crap up too. Not to mention if you somehow manage to get yourself caught up in that as well, you are in some bad trouble. Wasn't one of the companies looking at like an 850 volt bus? That's a widow maker there you get caught on that.
Aaron
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THB I would think they really SHOULD care.
if you go unplugging a hot cable thats at 300 volts with a few hundred amps flowing across it, that's going to be a pretty impressive emerald green arc you draw, which is going to tear some crap up too. Not to mention if you somehow manage to get yourself caught up in that as well, you are in some bad trouble. Wasn't one of the companies looking at like an 850 volt bus? That's a widow maker there you get caught on that.
Aaron
Nope. The chargers are smarter than you give them credit for.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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THB I would think they really SHOULD care.
if you go unplugging a hot cable thats at 300 volts with a few hundred amps flowing across it, that's going to be a pretty impressive emerald green arc you draw, which is going to tear some crap up too. Not to mention if you somehow manage to get yourself caught up in that as well, you are in some bad trouble. Wasn't one of the companies looking at like an 850 volt bus? That's a widow maker there you get caught on that.
Aaron
I was talking about before it starts vending though so there's no actual power flowing through the DC lines, just the communication lines. Specficly I'm talking about leaving the connector plugged into the bike when initialization fails in which case basicly nothing is happening. Some chargers care that you actually disconnect the cable and/or that you follow the initialization procedure exactly, some don't and/or will let you change the order a little.