ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Mr T on September 07, 2020, 08:15:48 PM
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Like the title says: Thinking of buying a 2014 S model. The scoot has a 13KWH battery that replaced the original, 21k miles. Was maintained by Hollywood Electrics, currently in Jacksonville, FL. I live near Charlotte, NC so it will be a haul to pick it up. A little about me: 64 years old, last of four kids in college, so a bit broke, (Clemson -proud dad), owned over 40 motorcycles in my life and do my own wrenching. This would be my first electric scoot, but don't know if this one would be the right one to buy. I am ok with the range and charging as I really don't do any long trips any more. I test road a 2014 S model that a local was kind enough to let me try out, so the weight, seat height and power were just fine. The price is under 5k, so it is a stretch, but probably doable. I've done a lot of research in the last few weeks, but would love to hear from the collective here. Thanks for all responses.
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Hi, this one is a bit tricky.
Sub $5k is well below market value. Maybe they just want it gone or a little more likely there is some issue with it.
These bikes are great and soak up miles very very cheaply. They ride smooth and super easy.
The problem comes in if one of the major components goes out.
A new battery I'm guessing is still around $9k. A motor is about $3k a controller is about $1200 and about the same for an onboard charger. You won't be able to wrench your way out of those costs I'm afraid. These things don't go out too often in the whole market but you will find posts of people having issues here on the forum. Like all forums this is where the problems get aired while people enjoying their bikes are mostly quiet.
If your money situation is tight right now I would advise just waiting. I would hate for you to get the bike, have an issue that you didn't have the money to fix and be out a bike.
Good luck
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Do you have a dealer nearby that you trust?
There's no particular reason why that bike should be a bad investment. Just... Buying any bike ride unridden is a bit iffy, just as buying a guitar unplayed is.
I've been well happy with mine, and I think NEW2elec is overestimating the costs by half, but if you had to ship the bike... Wrenching is something that this bike doesn't really do. Brakes and belt and tires, sure; but the mainboard, controller, battery... These all need programming to be made right.
It's a very fun bike which gets me anywhere in the county I want to go (and usually back, without charging). That bike has another 25% range, so. And I bought mine a year ago for $6k.
-Crissa
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Thanks for the responses. The seller said there is nothing wrong with it at all, but since moving across the country from Cali to Fl, he does not want to ride in the Florida weather. Having lived in South Florida for the first 50 years of my life, I know what he is talking about ( big thunderstorms, heat, hurricanes, high humidity, and flying bugs - lots of bugs.) I tried reaching out to Hollywood Electrics to get some back story on it as they maintained it, but it seems they are very busy and have not had the time to call me back yet. The original price was about 1k higher but the guy lost his job after the move and needs to raise some coin. There are many in this situation right now and I have been there myself, so I know the score. Zeros are not terribly popular around here, but there is a local dealer that sells Zeros as well as Ducatis, BMWs, Urals, Morgans. MVs and Triumphs. He currently has a 2019 DSr and a 2018 DS and does not plan on buying any more until they sell. However, he told me that he will continue to do any warranty work. This is a whole new world for me, and I am willing to learn, but I don't need a money pit. I currently have a 2009 Versys 650 that suits my needs, but it is a bit of overkill as I don't really ride more than an hour or so because of back problems. That said, I would really like to go electric.
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Mr T the truth is it may go 50k more miles and only need tires and brakes we just don't know.
I've seen videos from people who use the NC dealer and they seem like a very good dealership so that's good.
It sounds like you have a great use case for the bike and my only concern is the possibility of having a repair bill you don't want to live with.
My bike in my screen name picture is a 13 DS. It has almost 38k miles on it. It had the battery replaced (for free) but with another 11.4 unit not a bigger one like the S your looking at. I had to replace the DC-DC converter ( this handles all the 12 volt functions) at a cost of about $400.
I'm on my 4th set of cheap tires (good enough for me) and will need to replace all my brake pads soon.
About a month ago one of my charging units failed (unique to 2013 the 2014 is different). The bike will still charge but at half speed.
They only sell the replacements as four new units at a cost of $790 not installed.
Other owners have different tales to tale but that's my bike's story.
I also got a 17 DSR that I have only put tires on but it's at about 18k miles.
Edit:
Here are links to the unofficial Zero manual and also AF1 racing who sells Zero parts directly to customers. If that helps any.
https://www.af1racing.com/Zero-Motorcycles-All-Models
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Main_Page
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Good price and I would buy it. If you feel the seller is not being honest (or even if he is) have a video sent of it being ridden and a shot of the charging LED blinking at a low state of charge and another of it displaying full charge and steady LED. If this pans out it would be nearly as good as a test ride and personal inspection. You're saving almost enough to purchase a new controller or charger as it is.
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It might be really great, but if something goes wrong you might end up needing to spend THOUSANDS more to keep riding it. A 2014 will have NO WARRANTY. From my point of view, it seems like Zero's solution to problems is to totally replace BIG and EXPENSIVE components. Before you buy, check out prices on motors($3000), controllers(~$1,500), batteries($2,500-$3,000) and be aware that YOU CAN'T FIX IT!!!
They want me to buy a new motor for mine. I will just write it off as a bad experience because it simply isn't a good enough bike to invest that much money to fix it's problems. I would not buy another Zero. I am NOT a fanboy.
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Fifty3 what happened to your bike?
I mean sell it or trade it in?
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Yeah, like I said, we took the bet because we could ride the bike and make sure nothing was acting funny.
It sounds like you've done your homework!
-Crissa
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It is parked in the corner of my garage. 730 miles from the nearest part of Georgia.
Actually, I have ridden it about a dozen times since it came back from the dealer. I have discovered that if I apply throttle very slowly the first time I take off, it seems to operate without issue until the switch is turned off. It is an interesting motorcycle, but it needs a new home.
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My 2014S is a bit over 44k miles (purchased new). The maintenance to date is tires, brakes --- and the on-board charger that failed at about 24k miles. That on-board charger has been reported failing (or degrading) by others as well. The QuiQ external charger was key to being able to limp along until a replacement of the on-board charger, so you may wish to consider purchasing the external charger. As other responses have noted, there is risk so YMMV. Despite the on-board charger failure, my experience overall with my 2014S has been positive.
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I gave my daughter my old 2014 S when I bought a 2018 S. Both bikes had the Power Tank installed. Neither vehicle has had any problems other than both bikes needing the on-board charger replaced. On comment that I will add is that when I visited the Zero factory they had dozens of Delta Q chargers that were being used to charge up their new battery packs before they were installed in their bikes. And not a Calex (on-board) charger in sight. ;)
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I received some pics of the battery at 100%, for whatever it may be worth. Still trying to decide. I guess I am uncomfortable with it being so dealer dependent.
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Also, the seller does not have much in the way of paperwork for any work that has been done in the past. Is there any way to look this up? I tried to reach out to Hollywood Electrics, who supposedly maintained the bike, but have not heard back.
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Well, the dealer software could find out what firmware has been done. The maintenance list is pretty short, though.
When I got my 2014 S last year, I took it in to get everything they could think of and it was still cheaper than the biannual service my Mazda wants.
-Crissa
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I gave my daughter my old 2014 S when I bought a 2018 S. Both bikes had the Power Tank installed. Neither vehicle has had any problems other than both bikes needing the on-board charger replaced. On comment that I will add is that when I visited the Zero factory they had dozens of Delta Q chargers that were being used to charge up their new battery packs before they were installed in their bikes. And not a Calex (on-board) charger in sight. ;)
Hello Richard, you had the on-board charger also needing replacement on your 2018 S? How many miles did you have on it when it failed? Common failure signs?
Thanks for any details you can provide
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I gave my daughter my old 2014 S when I bought a 2018 S. Both bikes had the Power Tank installed. Neither vehicle has had any problems other than both bikes needing the on-board charger replaced. On comment that I will add is that when I visited the Zero factory they had dozens of Delta Q chargers that were being used to charge up their new battery packs before they were installed in their bikes. And not a Calex (on-board) charger in sight. ;)
Hello Richard, you had the on-board charger also needing replacement on your 2018 S? How many miles did you have on it when it failed? Common failure signs?
Thanks for any details you can provide
The 2014 charger started failing slowly around 8000 miles, when it would not fully charge to 100%. By 10K miles it would only charge to 88%, that also corresponded to a lower battery voltage. Replacing the charger brought things back to 100% and it has been hanging in there for the past year.
However, my 2018 charger failed completely without warning while it was charging, leaving the smell of burning garlic in my garage and a small burn hole in the charger case. This happened at 7,600 miles. The replacement charger looks the same but has a different model number. I sure hope it lasts longer.
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How many miles did you have on it when it failed?
You will probably find the charger failures to be very random with mileage as well as with age. I have more than 10K miles on each of my Zeros with no charger problems (yet--knock on wood).
However, I reduce the time my OBC is on, as well as decrease the OBC heat a little, by almost always charging with 240 VAC and adding in a couple of external chargers (when possible).
-Don- Reno, NV
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Yeah, my charger hasn't failed - it's from 2014 - and I have four thousand miles on my bike. So fewer cycles, but over a longer period.
Now I mostly charge on 240, due to the bike being stored about a hundred feet from my house (and thirty feet down). That's better on the cable.
Zero freely admits the chargers are something they have trouble nailing down, but many continue operation just fine for years. But they are exposed to transient voltage from the bike, heat, and are dealing with twice the power than a standard tower PC but in a form factor like a PC power supply.
-Crissa
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and are dealing with twice the power than a standard tower PC .
Don't you mean more like five times the power?
120 VAC input at 2.5 amps (typical tower computer power supply)=300 watts AC input power.
120 VAC input at 12.0 amps=(Typical Zero SR, S, DSR OBC) =1,440 watts AC input power.
1,440 watts divided by 300 watts=4.8 times the power of a tower computer power supply.
-Don- (back in Auburn, CA for a day or two).
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My PCs is 1500watts, the ones from spouse's office are 750watts.
They may not be typical, but that's what I think when I think 'PC power supply'.
-Crissa
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My PCs is 1500watts, the ones from spouse's office are 750watts.
They may not be typical, but that's what I think when I think 'PC power supply'.
-Crissa
That sounds like a very large tower! I am curious what make it is, I am not familiar with 1.5 KW computer towers. Do you have a link to it? Or are you including more than just the tower, such as a UPS?
I have large UPSes here, and I have even used this computer with the monitors when PG&E had the power shut off last year.
My UPS also runs my internet cameras. I can see all three of my houses, inside and out, from anywhere I can get a web connection.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Power-Supply-Units/axi-series-config/p/CP-9020057-NA
The PC is a VR development rig. It's about as fast as you can get stock. Well, until the new video cards come out next week.
-Crissa
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https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Power-Supply-Units/axi-series-config/p/CP-9020057-NA
The PC is a VR development rig. It's about as fast as you can get stock. Well, until the new video cards come out next week.
-Crissa
That's a 1500 watt capable switching power supply, but I doubt if your tower alone requires 1,500 watts.
But I find it interesting is that is about the same power capability as our Zero OBC. And reminds me of such, with the (five) ferrite cores at the output terminals to reduce the spurious radiation on the output.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Power-Supply-Units/axi-series-config/p/CP-9020057-NA
The PC is a VR development rig. It's about as fast as you can get stock. Well, until the new video cards come out next week.
-Crissa
That's a 1500 watt capable switching power supply, but I doubt if your tower alone requires 1,500 watts.
But I find it interesting is that is about the same power capability as our Zero OBC. And reminds me of such, with the (five) ferrite cores at the output terminals to reduce the spurious radiation on the output.
-Don- Auburn, CA
You'd struggle to build a computer that purposely pulls 1500w, and even if you chose components rated for that there will be few workloads that put all the components under 100% load at the same time. These days a really high end computer is going to peak around 700-800w and be much less in most use cases, a typical decent gaming computer is going to be under 600w.
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These days a really high end computer is going to peak around 700-800w and be much less in most use cases, a typical decent gaming computer is going to be under 600w.
That's about what I would expect, if not even a bit less.
But I figure it's possible for there to be computers I have not yet heard about that require a ridiculous number of watts. But I can't figure out why, especially these days when just about everything in computer tower is quite efficient and draws little current.
OTOH, EV batteries really do require a ridiculous number of watts.
I assume the power supply Crissa linked to is designed to run a lot more than a computer tower. Or else it is real overkill.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Well, it's to run a pair of RTX 2080 video cards and and overclocked processor rendering three independent views on multiple 4k displays while transmitting two of them over Intel WiGig and tracking multiple wireless components.
And doing 3d spatial painting and and and x-x
Tho I took the stack of drives out of it since it can run cooler if I do that.
-Crissa
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I think I am going to go check out this bike. There is also a FXS up for sale coming in about $500 cheaper but with a 7.2 battery. I've never even sat on one and with an inseam of 31 inches, it may not be a good fit. Thanks for all the responses. Side note: This really cracks me up, almost ever forum I have been associated with starts with direct answers to a comment. then the heresay ones come in, followed by members commenting on comments, then it leaves the rails completely. Such is life.
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I have an inseam of 30" and do fine on my DS with a seat height of 33.2" (I did add a bit more sag on the rear as I'm also fairly light, but even at stock settings it was okay) and the FXS seat height is 32.9". I'm on my toes so I would think you'd probably be able to flat foot it especially in some boots with a bit of a heel on them.
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Theran, you are probably right. I have a Versys 650 that has a seat height of 33.1, but with the width of the seat, it was a little dicey. I ended up lowering it an inch with an after market part and with the sag adjustment, it ended up being around 31.5. Works great now. the seat on the FXS looks narrower, so I really want to look at the FXS 7.2 and figure out if I can live with 45% less range than the S 13KWH model.
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The FX/S/DS ZF7.2 should be plenty enough range for most urban riders keeping to speeds 25-52mph. I rode a loaner FX ZF6.5 for some weeks on pavement and off-road. As I am some 26 miles from town there were a few freezing cold (less energetic battery output) days when I had to push the FX ZF6.5 a mile or two and ask for help with a charge. The ZF7.2 should have been enough for me then. Also likely for the same weight eventually we would see on a new model year an even more energy dense ZForce battery (Perhaps 8kWh? about 8% improvement every 3 years? at a guess). The stock recharging on any FX/FXS up to model year 2020 (at least) is slow 6mph rate, you will absolutely want to figure out some kind of hot rod off-board charger once the novelty of 50 mile range wears off and you want to do 100mi+ days. With an additional 25lbs weight off-board charger you can max out the charging rate to 60mph+ which effectively doubles your range if you stop for lunch while charging. The same hot rod off-board charging should work for S/DS platform model year 2014+.
FX/FXS does easily wheelie and get up to highway speeds. It is a relatively lightweight and much more substantial motorbike compared to the next cheapest option (Sur Ron customized moped from eBike parts like Sur Ron X Black Edition).
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The FX/S/DS ZF7.2 should be plenty enough range for most urban riders keeping to speeds 25-52mph.
My ZF 6.5 battery was replaced with a 7.2 KWH under warranty a few months ago. What a nice difference in range.
Today, I took a ride UP to Virginia City on my DS and it took less than 50% of my SOC. I recharged at the CourtHouse in VC (@3.3 KW with two Delata-Qs). I came back via Carson City and still had 30% SOC left when I got home. And that includes a few short side trips. While I could have recharged many other places on the way back, I had no need. And it was 50% freeway on the way back (as fast as 75 MPH).
These days, I can take my DS 7.2KWH just about anywhere I can take my SR 16.3 KWH. Yeah, the 16.3 has a lot more range, but it's the same charging times either way at the same charge rate, as long as there are enough J-1772 stations and these days there are plenty. I wouldn't hesitate to take my Zero DS 7.2 to Auburn as the longest run with no J-1772 station is Reno to Truckee and it can easily make that.
I decided I am going to wire up my DS for a couple of Elcons also, and start charging it at 6 KWs. I will soon buy a couple of more Elcons so I can keep two at each house.
-Don- Reno, NV
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The FX does feel taller... but it is skinnier and lighter which makes up for it.
The S is more a newbie bike, tho. The balance is well-behaved.
-Crissa
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Do any of you think it would be worth it to wait for a newer model to come along? I was reading about the 2016 change to the motors, that is, the IPM. Is it that much of an improvement over the older tech?
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Do any of you think it would be worth it to wait for a newer model to come along? I was reading about the 2016 change to the motors, that is, the IPM. Is it that much of an improvement over the older tech?
Some will say it's the opposite. The new motors are probably more efficient, but require alignment with the controller and such (AKA Commissioning). More critical and not anything we can do ourselves. Also, the older motors make it a lot easier to add in a reverse.
Just because it's newer doesn't necessary mean it's an improvement.
I have heard many sayings about such. Like "The designs of the future are often the very first to become designs of the past". Here is one example of such (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine).
And they even made a few motorcycles with it.
-Don- Reno, NV
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There's also always a new model coming along. So that wait is practically infinite.
-Crissa
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There's also always a new model coming along. So that wait is practically infinite.
-Crissa
Depends on what you want. I can remember many "improvements" in the past that I considered to be the opposite. For an example, in 1973, they thought the fuel tank was too large on the 1971 BMW. Some could feel the gas in the tank during fast sharp turns. So they made it almost two gallons smaller in 1973. Back in 1971, I was tired of running out of gas on my 68 Honda CL350, so I was looking for the largest gas tank there was on a motorcycle. They advertised it as 6.3 gallons on my 1971, but it was really only 5.8 Gallons. Still the largest in 1971. Back in those days, they lied about all specs--even lied in writing about the warranties. Motorcycle warranties didn't work back then. Times have changed a lot since those days.
-Don- Reno, NV
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As I understand it the new IPM motor wastes a lot less energy in heat, which isn't so much about getting more range as preventing it from going into thermal limp mode if you give it beans.
Cas :)
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The FX does feel taller... but it is skinnier and lighter which makes up for it.
The S is more a newbie bike, tho. The balance is well-behaved.
-Crissa
Well I am a newbie when it comes to Zeros for sure. But after over 40 motorcycles, I am so intrigued with these bikes. The short test ride I took blew me away with the smoothness and application of power. At least enough power for me, I'm slowing down a little, but sure don't want to stop riding. I still enjoy wrenching, and will continue to do so to stay busy and supplement my income. But I really am looking forward to learning something new. My father used to say, " if you are not learning, you are not living". Of course riding too. Lots of riding!
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I ride my 13 at about 45-50 MPH on back roads to enjoy the ride. Even in GA summers I have never hit the thermal limit warning on the bike.
If I was riding 30-40 miles on the interstate at 80 MPH then I'm sure I would hit it. People report that the power goes down a good bit until the motor cools off. This of course isn't ideal on the interstate or any other fast traffic situation hence going with the IPM motor later on.
The IPM motor really just pulls the magnets back away from the windings held in by a "cage" setup. So like having your hand away from a fire instead of right over it.
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The FX does feel taller... but it is skinnier and lighter which makes up for it.
The S is more a newbie bike, tho. The balance is well-behaved.
-Crissa
Well I am a newbie when it comes to Zeros for sure. But after over 40 motorcycles, I am so intrigued with these bikes. The short test ride I took blew me away with the smoothness and application of power. At least enough power for me, I'm slowing down a little, but sure don't want to stop riding. I still enjoy wrenching, and will continue to do so to stay busy and supplement my income. But I really am looking forward to learning something new. My father used to say, " if you are not learning, you are not living". Of course riding too. Lots of riding!
If you like wrenching on motorcycles, buy a used Royal Enfield Bullet. Wrench on that and then go riding on your Zero. ;)
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If you like wrenching on motorcycles, buy a used Royal Enfield Bullet. Wrench on that and then go riding on your Zero. ;)
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I should have been more clear in my statement. I like wrenching on motorcycles - other people's motorcycles. I work my own usually to only get them going, ride awhile and sell off. I wrench to raise coin, so I can ride. I don't touch the family budget. As far as the Enfields go, I have worked on them. They have improved the quality in last few years and are a charming reminder of the past, but I prefer to live in the present. Enfields are really too slow for today's road and crazy drivers. I live just outside of Charlotte, NC in Nascar territory where every other person thinks they are driving for the checker flag. The Bullets are fine for back country roads ( my favorite kind of riding), but breaking down in the middle of nowhere is not fun. So no thank you, I won't be buying one. :P
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I just wanted to thank everyone that replied. I am walking away from this 2014 S deal as I can't seem to get enough answers on the history of the bike. Since the on board chargers seem to the weak point, it would be nice to know if it had been replaced in the last 21K miles. I also realized that I am more interested in a FXS model as the range would be fine with me and would probably like the ergonomics better. If anyone is interested, I'll talk to the guy and see if he is agreeable.
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The charger is an electronic device. It could last forever, or maybe not.
It sounds like some bikes just chew through them and others just never do.
-Crissa
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I just wanted to thank everyone that replied. I am walking away from this 2014 S deal as I can't seem to get enough answers on the history of the bike. Since the on board chargers seem to the weak point, it would be nice to know if it had been replaced in the last 21K miles. I also realized that I am more interested in a FXS model as the range would be fine with me and would probably like the ergonomics better. If anyone is interested, I'll talk to the guy and see if he is agreeable.
Having a charger that was not replaced or is malfunctioning should not be a deal-breaker. Think further about how you would attempt a repair if the Main Bike Board goes bad? That could be a disaster on an old and new bike alike. In fact, before AF1Racing (https://www.af1racing.com/) opened up their catalog of Zero Motorcycles parts to online ordering there was kind of a grey market for finding dealers who would order parts for customers (or not!) - some dealers who were willing couldn't figure it out and there were warehouse problems for logistics that Zero Motorcycles used in past years repeatedly returning to haunt new parts orders. If you could even get a brand new proprietary part like the Main Bike Board specific to your make and model year it then needs to be programmed and the tools to do so are not for sale. There is no mail order service for getting proprietary Zero Motorcycles parts serviced.
The value proposition here needs to be compared with something that is maintainable.
If you break something on a $4000 Sur Ron X there's a dozen online retailers where you can swap parts; there are no mysterious proprietary parts that will stop you from spending time and money to repair it. Anything specialized needing programming tools for cobbled-together import products out of China like the Sur Ron can be mailed away to get programmed and return-mailed. The same is not true for Zero Motorcycles vehicles, the manufacturer actively prevents owners from obtaining the proprietary repair tools for maintaining and repairing their bikes, and the support through an authorized network of dealers has been rocky at best for most owners I know personally. If your dealer is outstanding and does well you may never have a problem in the first place and wouldn't notice any troubles for 10 years of ownership, but the horror stories begin about dealer service and repair on Zero Motorcycles vehicles and never really end as there are some number of unsatisfactory results even when the manufacturer intervened (which they have done to positive effect a whole lot more then they ought need to) to try to make it right for the owner.
However for something like the Sur Ron X you'd be daft with a deathwish to try and ride that more than a mile or two on interstate highway. The Zero FX is the next level up and is about the minimum you'd want to dabble with over 45mph speeds. For that you have to make some concessions about price and some parts being proprietary and not user replaceable.
So maybe it was good to walk away from a 2014 Zero S? However it could also be the kind of bike if ridden hard that there are well-known problems. It's better for Zero Motorcycles owners to have a bike with well-known problems (anything besides proprietary programmed parts like Main Bike Board, Sevcon motor controller, the motor itself) than a new one on warranty service with mysterious problems and a dealer network that isn't quite taking care of business (or no dealer in your area at all). It would be like having had a test pilot for all those years working for you to find the problems, and then giving you the test bike when you cut their paycheck ;)
Since you're interested in an FX style bike though just have a look for a FX 7.2 and see if that's in your budget. If the charger is bad just remove it and DIY your own better replacement (same could be of course said for the 2014 Zero S but factor that into the price any DIY charging upgrade worth doing is $1000+). It could have been dropped and flipped and so on but if it accelerates without a hiccup it's probably good to go. Get some seat time, and when the 2021 model year is announced see if they have managed to make an improvement to the ZForce battery. The 2013 Zero was offered with a ZForce 8.5 as a larger physical battery similar to what we see on ZF14.0 bikes now. If they can squeeze out an improvement on the ZF7.2 for 2021 at half the mass and half the physical size of the 2013 ZF8.5 it will be a wonderful milestone. An FX ZF8 would be amazing, but the FX ZF7.2 is a fine bike and nothing else really can touch its value proposition as a machine capable of highway speeds.
Say you're not ever needing to go on highway, then it's maybe more sensible to grab a Sur Ron X? It's not a motorcycle but it's also way less dependent on finding a manufacturer authorized dealership that doesn't suck.
The 2014 Zero S might still be interesting at $5k I think it's not a bad value. You need to do some research about a local authorized dealer though, even though Hollywood Electrics maintained the bike and they are in fact excellent it really doesn't matter because they are not the local dealer where you would go to get the bike proprietary stuff serviced.
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Best way to look at Zeros appears to be: you are buying a £10k bike of which £5k is the 2 year warranty. As soon as the warranty has run out they're a total lottery.
Cas :)
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Best way to look at Zeros appears to be: you are buying a £10k bike of which £5k is the 2 year warranty. As soon as the warranty has run out they're a total lottery.
Your numbers are 2x too large, but the same is true of any Battery-Electric-Vehicle.
You gotta be able to see if the BEV's battery condition is nominal. If it is, it's probably just fine for pretty much ever at that point, as long as you don't kill it yourself.
Just like you gotta be able to see if a guitar's neck is straight and it plays. There is no replacement for getting it into your hands.
I bought mine post battery warranty and it's fine.
-Crissa
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I'd say he's fairly close. A 7.2 Zero is around 10 grand, the 5 year warranty is only on the battery and that should last for as long as most people will want the bike and a replacement would probably be around £5-6k, leaving £4-5k for everything else which is only covered by the 2 year warranty. However, the parts that are more likely to actually fail and need replacement (motor, sevcon, mbb, charger) come to around £3k so that's probably the worst case scenario for what you'd have to pay (unless you need to replace parts multiple times, and not including labour).
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But isn't £ 2x $? The S and X are $10K and the battery is half of it...
-Crissa
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Nah they're fairly close now, £1 is $1.29. All the 7.2 Zeros are £11.5k and then you get £1.5k back from the EV grant (or rather the dealer just knocks it down to £10k and they get the grant money).
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Oh. Ow.
-Crissa
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Yep, for the price I paid for my ex-demo bike you yanks can buy a brand new one.
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Having some history on a multiple owner bike and charger that had been replaced would have been a plus, without that, I was not willing to move forward on the sale. On an ICE bike, it is a whole lot easier to know what your are getting up front. Of course, any one owner bike is easiest yet, but on the Zeros with multiple owners, I think some kind of paper trail of any work done should be expected. Yes, It could be perfect one day after a thorough check out out a dealer and break down the next - any bike is susceptible to that. But my budget was stretched as is was and I was not willing to roll the dice and hope for the best. The local dealer was willing to check it out for me at their hourly rate of $170, but was not willing to give me definite price. The next dealer is in Raleigh, about three hours away. Anyhow, I am going to look out for a FXS or wait for the next great deal to come along.
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I guess the other thing that stuck me as odd, was the prices on the used Zeros. Many of the bikes that are approaching that 5 year mark or beyond it, have prices of 60% or more of a new one. Some of the asking price of the used FXS's , for example, are $6500 to $8,000, depending on the year, 2016s being the lowest, 2018s, the highest. I can get a new 2020 model for $9,600 and change, And then get the 10% tax write off. Why buy used at the before mentioned prices?
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Mr T, the other forum member Fifty3 contacted Zero HQ and got the history of his bike. Of course just like with a gas bike the only history is from a dealer not anything someone does on their own or a back yard mechanic.
I understand if you wanted to pass on the S. You will want to ride a FXS first though as that slim hard seat may be tough to live with.
I see you posted.
The small "x" bikes have an appeal to some people that the bigger bikes don't. The lowest I've seen a 100% working FX go for was $6000.
While I'm typing I'll include that the 2013 FX and XU used a battery that connected from the opposite side that they do now so when the battery dies on those, the bike dies with it.
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I figured that I could possible get the history from Zero HQ, but the seller was unwilling to give the VIN, serial number or anything else that could have helped me out. Hollywood Electrics did maintain the bike when it was in Cali, but I never was able to get anyone on the phone, even after several attempts during different times. Left messages, but I'm sure with everything going on, they just did not have the time to answer. But once I could not get any info from the seller, even as I was looking at a 6 hour drive one way, I did a hard pass. No problem, bikes come up for sale all the time and I'm willing to wait for the right one. Thank you for all the responses, I really appreciate it.
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Yeah no VIN is a major red flag. Good pass.
Good luck with them in the future we'd love to have you in the gang.
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The 2014 can't accept a Charge Tank, and has to see a dealer to update firmware. So I would expect it to carry a lower price than a '15 or newer. The price was not suspicious: I got mine for $6k cash a year ago, pristine, low miles.
-Crissa
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Your's has a 8.5 battery. This bike has a 13. That alone is worth $5k to anyone who can wire it up for other projects.
Rich rebuilds paid like 4k for Brian's old bike that was an insurance write off stolen bike.
There are none (S bikes) listed for less than 7k on Cycle Trader. So yeah a little suspect but hey you find deals sometimes too.
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I took a ride Saturday to check out another dealer about 40 miles from me that I just found about. They had a DS, SR, SR/S and a FX. Nice people, let me sit on all of them except the SR/S, which was spoken for. Cripes, what hard seats! The one I tried some weeks ago must have been really broken in. The FX and DS were a bit too high for my taste with the SR easily being the best fit, but the FX seems like it would the most fun, for me anyway. I'll keep looking....
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Cool!
You rarely think about their seats 'cause they're for moving and you only ride them for an hour or two at a time anyhow.
^-^
-Crissa
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Some new happenings -
1) a 2018 FXS 7.2 has come up for sale, 2,000 miles. $6500 add price. The owner said he really has not had many serious replies and has lost interest in it and would be willing to take 5k.
2) the 2014 S model, 13KWH I passed on - The owner, the real owner apparently, is very willing to give me any info I want. It seems I was communicating with his housemate that had permission to sell, but handled it a bit badly. The owner was on a business trip, is back for some weeks and wants a deal or is going to try to get one of the local motorcycle dealers in the area to buy it. So I have to see if I can get any info from Zero Hq, then sort out which one to look at first. I just wish they were closer together, FXS is 3 hours NE, the S three hours south west. Thanks for reading.
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The guy with the FXS is not responding back anymore, but the owner of the S model has and sent the VIN. I'm going to try to find someone at Zero HQ who could possible help me to find any history of recalls, repairs done, etc. Hope this works.