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Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: heroto on August 19, 2020, 11:48:20 PM
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L2 charger. Starts at 13 amp (dash says goal is 14 amp). Within a few minutes (Approx 5) or so fan comes on a charge rate drops to 8 amps and stays there, with the fan running.
Does this with moto cool. Tried two different chargers, same outcome.
The air the fan is exhausting is room temp — not hot at all.
I know this is not spec. Any thoughts?
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L2 charger. Starts at 13 amp (dash says goal is 14 amp). Within a few minutes (Approx 5) or so fan comes on a charge rate drops to 8 amps and stays there, with the fan running.
Does this with moto cool. Tried two different chargers, same outcome.
The air the fan is exhausting is room temp — not hot at all.
I know this is not spec. Any thoughts?
What is your SOC at the time? That will make a difference, especially if already charged up to above 85% or so.
240 VAC at 8 amps is still close to 2KW. See what your charge rate is at around 50% SOC. Don't expect it to be a steady 3KW at all times.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Yes my first charge started at 94% (I was advised to do a full charge before first ride) and I thought nothing of it.
But, Did this at mid 30s,52, and 60%, same every time. Moto cooled overnight, doesn’t matter.
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The next step to take is find another 240VAC source at a different location.
It is likely that the voltage at the input terminal to the charger is on the low side due to AC branch circuit overall voltage drop.
This is exacerbated if the service is 208VAC versus 240VAC.
Measure the wall outlet voltage w/ charger disconnected - this may be perfectly normal power management by charger.
Keep us posted on what you find - out of box failures are rare.
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Will try but skeptical. This is a clean run from the fuse box, 50 amp 240 volt. Never an issue with a 6 kw SR/F.
It's the moto.
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Will try but skeptical. This is a clean run from the fuse box, 50 amp 240 volt. It's the moto.
Your frustration is understood - sorry about that.
Please confirm, 13-amp to 8-amp is a step decrease, not 13-amp to 8-amp ramp, correct?
And if it's a step decrease it happens exactly when the fan turns on?
What is ambient temperature?
Just trying to help...
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Plug in. 13 amps (below the factory set rate of 14 amps and NO it's not the charger). Fan activates after about 3 minutes. Still 13 A but after another minute or two charging rate steadily drops over a few minutes to 8 amps. Reproducible every time. The modest little fan stays on, blowing room temp air.
I wonder if a faulty temp sensor is pushing the panic button incorrectly, but what do I know.
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The modest little fan
When fan speed is set at 100% the fan IMHO cannot be called 'modest' and should blow the cr*p out of the charger, maybe the fan speed is set too low (<50%) or the fan doesn't function like it should. Good luck.
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I see you are right about the fan. Went through the menu. Fan was set at 100%, but was running at 30%. I toggled to 30 then back To 100 and now is runs at 100%.
That did not fix the low current draw issue, and the exhausted air is not warm.
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Favor request: which direction does you charge cooling fan move air: up away from the moto or down, into the moto???
I wonder if my fan, which blows air up is installed backwards.
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Favor request: which direction does you charge cooling fan move air: up away from the moto or down, into the moto???
I wonder if my fan, which blows air up is installed backwards.
Sounds correct to me. Hot air raises. Blowing down would work against that.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I am hoping for a direct observation. Plug it in and confirm.
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I am hoping for a direct observation. Plug it in and confirm.
I am 100 miles away from my Energica right now, so somebody else will have to check.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I can confirm that!
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The fan is pulling air, pushing it past the charger and out the tail section of the bike. However due to the proximity of the fan to the heat-sink it my feel like some air is blowing up.
Quick test, with the fan running very gently push down on the center of the fan grill. You should hear a grinding or rubbing sound.
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I was prepared to swear it blows the air out, but decided to go do a match test :o
How could I be so wrong?
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The fan is pulling air, pushing it past the charger and out the tail section of the bike. However due to the proximity of the fan to the heat-sink it my feel like some air is blowing up.
Looks like our Energicas are not cooled like a computer. (https://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch001010.htm)
"Should fans mounted on the top of the case suck air in or blow air out?
Because hot air rises, if you're building a computer that has additional fans on the top, those fans should blow hot air out of the case."
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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Thanks.
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Did some recording during my last CCS charging. Since the charger also provided the delivered charge, I also recorded that. The range is taken from the dash and obviously will change depending on the ride style.
The conditions: 50km (31mi) on flat lands, no hills at all, max 100km/h (62mph), rather gentle acceleration. I left my race mode at home today ;). Battery symbol was green during charge and after finished. Dry autum weather, 19degC (66F).
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Nice charge chart ^-^
-Crissa
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What is the temperature when in the yellow?
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What is the temperature when in the yellow?
Blue =less than 5°C (41°F)
Green =6 to 40°C (42.8 to 104°F)
Yellow =41 to 55°C (105.8 to 131°F)
Red =above 55°C (131°F)
-Don- Reno, NV
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That short trip must have been borderline already. As stated, the battery symbol was green after charge.
Did a 150km/93mi trip a few days earlier, just more aggressive ride style. Ambient temps were a bit warmer at around 22C/72F. The bike began throttling the charge already at 55%SOC and showed yellow after powering up. During the remaining 50km/31mi back home it stayed yellow. I missed to at least put my hands on the battery case to get an idea if I could have felt the heat.
I am missing the opportunity for a longer (>150km) trip & fast charge - plus repeat that at least 3x. This will give me some real day trip indication. Maybe use some temp sensors to get an idea about the temp increase during riding and charging. And even if equipped like that it might even show a delay until the induced charging heat really ‘surfaces’ on the batt case outside. Not sure if 30 or 40mins is already enough.
Don, thx for the temp/color ranges.
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I see you are right about the fan. Went through the menu. Fan was set at 100%, but was running at 30%. I toggled to 30 then back To 100 and now is runs at 100%.
That did not fix the low current draw issue, and the exhausted air is not warm.
How did you check the fan speed setting and adjust it? I have never seen that on the menu of my Ribelle?
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Blue =less than 5°C (41°F)
Green =6 to 40°C (42.8 to 104°F)
Yellow =41 to 55°C (105.8 to 131°F)
Red =above 55°C (131°F)
-Don- Reno, NV
Of note - the cell manufacturer, Farasis, specifies the following for temperature limits...
Discharge: -20C to 60C
Charge: 0C to 45C
It's the CCS charge conditions for the larger battery that are worrisome - if heat can't be dissipated cell longevity is compromised.
The 3-year battery warranty is now explained - I had high hopes for 10-year longevity but instead 5-years seems more realistic.
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Blue =less than 5°C (41°F)
Green =6 to 40°C (42.8 to 104°F)
Yellow =41 to 55°C (105.8 to 131°F)
Red =above 55°C (131°F)
-Don- Reno, NV
Of note - the cell manufacturer, Farasis, specifies the following for temperature limits...
Discharge: -20C to 60C
Charge: 0C to 45C
It's the CCS charge conditions for the larger battery that are worrisome - if heat can't be dissipated cell longevity is compromised.
The 3-year battery warranty is now explained - I had high hopes for 10-year longevity but instead 5-years seems more realistic.
That's why the manual says always use AC charging when you have the choice. A charge of a few KW is unlikely to get above 45 C. You don't want to exceed 45°C more often than necessary.
The problem is that fast DC charging is often necessary when on a trip on a warm / hot day. If they can squeeze a 6 KW AC charger in there, there will be more times I would try to use it during trips which would be a lot better for battery life than DC fast charging.
BTW, there are times where I find DC fast charging too fast. For an example, if I want to go to a restaurant while charging. Then I would go out of my way to find a J-plug near a restaurant. But 3 KW is too slow. DC is too fast. 6KW is usually just right for a restaurant stop.
I usually charge my Zeros at 6KW. I am usually recharged to full about the same time I get back to the bike from a restaurant. There are many times that I prefer the 6KW charge to either a faster or slower charge.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Thank you Don for your continued input on this topic - I'm coming to realize it's up to the end-user to manage thermal conditions and the bike's safe-guards are to prevent run-away hazards not preserve operational integrity of the battery.
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How did you check the fan speed setting and adjust it? I have never seen that on the menu of my Ribelle?
If it is the same as my 2020 SS9-, it is under "Preferences-Charge-Fan limit-80% (or whatever % you want).
-Don- Reno, NV
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How did you check the fan speed setting and adjust it? I have never seen that on the menu of my Ribelle?
If it is the same as my 2020 SS9-, it is under "Preferences-Charge-Fan limit-80% (or whatever % you want).
-Don- Reno, NV
My new Ribelle doesn't have that on its menu, under Preferences-Charging its just SOC amount
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My new Ribelle doesn't have that on its menu, under Preferences-Charging its just SOC amount
By any chance does it automatically change speed while charging (depending on charger temperature)?
Or is it always at the exact same speed?
But either way, I think it's probably somewhat of a useless setting anyway and I can see why they will remove it. I don't see any reason why we should have to control the fan speed to the charger.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Fan starts mellow but soon ramps up to whatever max it is set at. What max it’s set at Makes zero differences. Zero, nada, nil. As if the fan is doing nothing.
Frustrating for me: I’ve experienced this on several chargers, every time. Yet the dealer sez he did a level 2 charge during the breakin service and it worked as it should. I take him at his word but that would be the only time it charged as it should during ithe first 1k miles. I can’t make sense of this.
Perhaps I am doing something wrong. How hard is it to plug in? Never had an issue with the SRF with dozens of chargers at several stations. Frustrating mystery.
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Can you describe the time intervals between charge and run, meaning how long have you allowed the bike to rest after a ride before plugging in to charge?
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Even if not ridden for days, same thing happens.
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Even if not ridden for days, same thing happens.
What happens if you charge with 120 VAC? Or are you located somewhere that doesn't have 120 VAC?
And your charge rate on 240 VAC is adjustable, if I remember correctly. Are you sure you have it set to the max?
I cannot check my Energica, as I am still 100 miles away from it, but IIRC, it can be adjusted. Might be on the My Energica app. I just cannot remember as I have never had the need to use it.
And if it is set at the max, lower it a bit and see if there is a difference.
-Don- Reno, NV
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While the bike's charging, you can adjust the charging amps by turning the ignition to the on position, and then shift the turn signal switch left or right. Works on 120v, 240v, and DCFC.
Edit: Sometimes when I charge my Ego at home, I'll lower the charging amps so it'll finish very close to the time I plan on riding it. Makes me feel good to know my bike's not sitting at 100% SoC for hours.
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While the bike's charging, you can adjust the charging amps by turning the ignition to the on position, and then shift the turn signal switch left or right. Works on 120v, 240v, and DCFC.
It may look like a turn signal switch, but it's the Mode switch right above it :)
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I could swear it was the turn signal switch but yeah, oh well. still works though. I love the fact that I can choose the amps in AC & DC charging. Not many EVs can do that!
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Thanks for the input. I need some help here!
As for the many suggestions, sad to report that all have already been applied, with no effect.
Dontom, at L1 US household 120v, charges as it should, fan comes on, but charge rate stays steady and on target. Slow of course, being level one.
The charging problem is only with L2. After just a few minutes, maybe 2 , the fan comes on, slow at first, then amps start dropping dropping dropping while the fan goes up to full speed. Settles at a steady charge rate after about 10 minutes or so. Fan speed has no effect. As if the fan is doing nothing but making a lot of noise. (Fan overall draws air in as it should, but sends almost as much out as in!)
The final, steady charge rate is 7 amps when the ambient was 80+ degrees F, 8 amps in the mid and low 70s. even had 9 on one cool day. (It’s set at 15)
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Hi heroto - please confirm L1 charges at 3KW - if it pulls 14Amps (target) you are still half-power and as such, the charger is undersized or thermally overloaded.
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Thanks for the input. I need some help here!
As for the many suggestions, sad to report that all have already been applied, with no effect.
Dontom, at L1 US household 120v, charges as it should, fan comes on, but charge rate stays steady and on target. Slow of course, being level one.
The charging problem is only with L2. After just a few minutes, maybe 2 , the fan comes on, slow at first, then amps start dropping dropping dropping while the fan goes up to full speed. Settles at a steady charge rate after about 10 minutes or so. Fan speed has no effect. As if the fan is doing nothing but making a lot of noise. (Fan overall draws air in as it should, but sends almost as much out as in!)
The final, steady charge rate is 7 amps when the ambient was 80+ degrees F, 8 amps in the mid and low 70s. even had 9 on one cool day. (It’s set at 15)
I am now located where my Energica is located. I will see how mine compares later when I use it for a while.
It does sound like you have a weak charger. You're not getting much more charge on L2 than you are on L1. You seem to be around a KW low on L2.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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The charge current setting is DC current even when charging from AC, correct?
I don't own an Energica yet, but the 3KW displayed indicates the maximum power available to charge in AC mode from reading the user manual, correct?
So, if set for 14-amps the charger would demand close to 5KW but instead you are seeing 8-amps which is closer to 3KW (2600-Watts), correct? This assumes 330V charge voltage.
heroto, does this make sense hence the charger is working normally?
Sorry for the confusion but the crux of your issue seems like a non-issue.
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The charge current setting is DC current even when charging from AC, correct?
I don't own an Energica yet, but the 3KW displayed indicates the maximum power available to charge in AC mode from reading the user manual, correct?
The amps shown is the primary side. In Europe with our 230V Type 2 chargers, the bike will go to 13-14 amps (13A*230V = 2990W). Since it doesn't show anything behind the decimal point this should be taken as approximate values.
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L2 charger. Starts at 13 amp (dash says goal is 14 amp). Within a few minutes (Approx 5) or so fan comes on a charge rate drops to 8 amps and stays there, with the fan running.
Does this with moto cool. Tried two different chargers, same outcome.
The air the fan is exhausting is room temp — not hot at all.
I know this is not spec. Any thoughts?
I just now checked my 2020 SS9-, starting at 1400 hrs checking every five minutes until 1500 hrs. Around 70F/ 21C ambient temperature.
1400 hrs: 55% SOC 13 amps / 3KW (as I charge with 240 VAC from my Tesla Tap). Fan off.
1405 hrs: 56% SOC still 13/ 3KW fan just now started running.
1410 hrs: 59% SOC 12 amps/ 3 KW fan on.
1415 hrs: 61% SOC 11 amps, jumps between 2 & 3 KW (2,640 watts by using math). Fan on.
1420 hrs: 63% SOC 10/11 amps (jumps between them) 2KW fan on.
1425 hrs: 65% SOC 10 amps steady, 2 KW fan on
1430 hrs: 67% SOC 10 amps/2KW steady, fan on. (2.4 KW by using math).
1435 hrs: 69% SOC 10 amps/2KW steady, fan on.
1440 hrs: 70% SOC 10 amps/2KW steady, fan on.
1500 hrs: 77% SOC 10 amps/2KW steady, fan on.
Your SOC should raise slower than mine in the same amount of time, since your battery is larger.
But you're only 2 amps below my bike (480 watts less). Kinda inconclusive if you have a problem or not, IMO. IAC, a 480 watts difference is not enough to be overly concerned with, IMO from 2.4 KW. Perhaps 20% longer wait for you to charge for the same added range. Every 60 minutes you have to wait 12 more minutes for a level two charge than I do. Just not that big of a deal, IMO.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Thanks for this report. Nice to know that I am not crazy. 10 amps would be an improvement for me, but I'm guessing that the ambient temp of your charge was cooler than mine. It's supposed to be a 3 kW charger, not 2 kW as we both have documented. Am I missing something?
Wondering if a recall is in our near futures.
Not trying to bash Energica here. The moto is superb. But we may have found an issue that needs to be addressed.
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Thanks for this report. Nice to know that I am not crazy. 10 amps would be an improvement for me, but I'm guessing that the ambient temp of your charge was cooler than mine. It's supposed to be a 3 kW charger, not 2 kW as we both have documented. Am I missing something?
Wondering if a recall is in our near futures.
Not trying to bash Energica here. The moto is superb. But we may have found an issue that needs to be addressed.
I don't expect a 3KW charger to stay at 3KW at all times while charging a battery.
You have a charger that is capable of 3 KW and is. That doesn't mean it will always be charging your battery at 3 KW. But I would expect more than 2KW and you're just a little below that.
Is this really an issue? Do you often charge with AC while on the road?
And could it be that your amp meter on the bike is reading low and you're really getting more amps than are displayed?
The real test is how long does it take your bike to charge from near 0 SOC to 85% SOC and see if that time is reasonable. That is all that really counts. Compare that time to another SS9+ if you can.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I don't expect a 3KW charger to stay at 3KW at all times while charging a battery.
Why not? I've owned two zeros and after the short ramp up the charge rate stayed pegged on the max on both until the rebalancing bit at the end, regardless of ambient temperature.
I can confirm that the projected charge time displayed on the dash, and the actual charge time lengthen as the charge rate drops.
Most of the places I like to ride have only AC charging.
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Why not? I've owned two zeros and after the short ramp up the charge rate stayed pegged on the max on both until the rebalancing bit at the end, regardless of ambient temperature.
I can confirm that the projected charge time displayed on the dash, and the actual charge time lengthen as the charge rate drops.
Most of the places I like to ride have only AC charging.
I have noticed some weirdness with charging my Zeros. Such as when I start a charge at 80% SOC compared to when I start a charge at 70% and then get to 80%. If I start at the 80%, I can only charge at 2KW with 6 KWs worth of chargers. But if I start at 70% then I get close to the full 6 KW even when at 80% SOC. I really don't know why. But I know the same happens to somebody I know who owns a new Zero SR/S. But no difference at lower charge rates (below 2 KW). Perhaps happens on all Zeros that tries to start charging at 6 KW when at 80% SOC.
And as you can see, my Energica also drops off the charge rate as does yours. So I assume they all do the same. What the BMS is doing, in either case, I have no idea. It's just stuff that I have observed.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Alas, not my experience.
SOC is unrelated. My SS9+ does the same ambient temp dependent slowdown regardless of SOC: 15%, 30%, 60% or 80%, doesn't matter. Also, it seems the Energica charge slow down is ambient temp dependent. Cooler ambient = less slow down.
The SR/F fan clearly was moving a lot more air - a large contrast with the Energica.
I freely admit I'm no engineer but surely these could be related.
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Alas, not my experience.
SOC is unrelated. My SS9+ does the same ambient temp dependent slowdown regardless of SOC: 15%, 30%, 60% or 80%, doesn't matter. Also, it seems the Energica charge slow down is ambient temp dependent. Cooler ambient = less slow down.
The SR/F fan clearly was moving a lat more air - a large contrast, day and night, black and white.
I freely admit I'm no engineer but surely these could be related.
Come to think about it, when DC fast charging the amp meter on the bike is obviously showing the DC current to the battery. IIRC, it's the same amp meter used on an AC charge as DC. No decimal shown on DC fast charge makes sense. But perhaps becomes inaccurate at low current draw, besides the fact we do not have a decimal. So it must be showing DC current to the battery at all times, even during an AC charge. So 10 amps times 300VDC is 3KW, the same rating as the charger.
Perhaps the SS9+ charges at a slightly lower rate, but 8 amps at 300 VDC is still 2,400 watts and since it is probably "constant current", that wattage will vary depending on the state of charge as well as other factors which could explain your steady 8 amps which really could be 3 KW at times.
What AC charging current are other "+" models getting in the midrange, say around 40 to 60% SOC (with 240 VAC)?
I now expect there is nothing wrong there.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I am hoping for a direct observation. Plug it in and confirm.
Mine clearly blows in. Confirmed with a sheet of paper. Feels like it is blowing out when I use my hand, which is deceiving.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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The amps shown is the primary side. .
What makes you assume that?
Can you find it in writing anywhere? And how do you explain it reading on a DC fast charge where it has to be the battery side as that is all there is?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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The amps shown is the primary side. .
What makes you assume that?
Can you find it in writing anywhere? And how do you explain it reading on a DC fast charge where it has to be the battery side as that is all there is?
Maths :) And you are right, on DC primary = secondary as it goes straight to the battery. My statement therefore still holds.
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Long story short I believe USA Energica now believes I am not FOS and is looking to Italy for guidance.
Just my opinion, but their AC charge cooling system is not up to snuff, which would account for my experience, and likely others'.
Also JMO, but Energica is a class outfit and will fix this.
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Long story short I believe USA Energica now believes I am not FOS and is looking to Italy for guidance.
Just my opinion, but their AC charge cooling system is not up to snuff, which would account for my experience, and likely others'.
Also JMO, but Energica is a class outfit and will fix this.
I would prefer the longer version.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Chargepoint stations provide a graph of charge rate over time. The initial charge is below spec, and the charge rapidly drops close to L1 range as the system warms up, can't deny with this third party hard data.
I'll add: Energica has got so much right, they could storm ahead of Zero, but the modest claimed spec 3.3kW AC charging makes touring outside of L3 territory limited. And alas as I and others have clearly documented, in the wild charging is far less than that, which makes this goal simply impossible if a US rider's goal is more than 100ish miles per day in rural areas.
I truly hope E figures this out and delivers an effective fix. I'll bet a Benjamin that the cooling system and/or transformer will receive a major tweak. I'll be first in line and willing to pay for an upgrade that truly works.
Even better:
Yo Energica: please provide a 12 or more kW AC upgrade that works as promised. Please. That would work very well here in the US.
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Chargepoint stations provide a graph of charge rate over time. The initial charge is below spec, and the charge rapidly drops close to L1 range as the system warms up, can't deny with this third party hard data.
I'll add: Energica has got so much right, they could storm ahead of Zero, but the modest claimed spec 3.3kW AC charging makes touring outside of L3 territory limited. And alas as I and others have clearly documented, in the wild charging is far less than that, which makes this goal simply impossible if a US rider's goal is more than 100ish miles per day in rural areas.
I truly hope E figures this out and delivers an effective fix. I'll bet a Benjamin that the cooling system and/or transformer will receive a major tweak. I'll be first in line and willing to pay for an upgrade that truly works.
Even better:
Yo Energica: please provide a 12 or more kW AC upgrade that works as promised. Please. That would work very well here in the US.
I never saw a J1772 on the road that can do 12 KW, but it is possible from a Tesla Destination Station and a Tesla-Tap.
I am surprised others here with 2021 + models have not mentioned their charge rates on L2.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Where would they put the giant L2 charger?
-Crissa
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I think it was a thread on the Zero forum on how useful 12kw L2 charger would be in the US that Terry replied that about 99% of allL2 chargers he saw were only 6.6 kW. Only a few could charge faster. I also have a Tesla Model 3 and a lot of Tesla destination chargers are only going to get you around 6.6 kw. There are some faster but don't take it for granted they will be. I charge my Ribelle on 220 volts, which pulls 13-14 Amps and 3 kW. If you need a full charge it can take as long as about 5 1/2 hours. For anyone considering a Ribella keep in mind that L1 charge times can be over 24 hours. The days of just plugging in your electric motorcycle into a 110 volt outlet and charging overnight are coming to an end.
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Even though I can charge my Ego on 120V I still prefer to use 240V since I can cut the amps in half, and the onboard charger won't be worked so hard.
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I think it was a thread on the Zero forum on how useful 12kw L2 charger would be in the US that Terry replied that about 99% of allL2 chargers he saw were only 6.6 kW. Only a few could charge faster. I also have a Tesla Model 3 and a lot of Tesla destination chargers are only going to get you around 6.6 kw. There are some faster but don't take it for granted they will be. I charge my Ribelle on 220 volts, which pulls 13-14 Amps and 3 kW. If you need a full charge it can take as long as about 5 1/2 hours. For anyone considering a Ribella keep in mind that L1 charge times can be over 24 hours. The days of just plugging in your electric motorcycle into a 110 volt outlet and charging overnight are coming to an end.
I have seen J1772 stations as low as 5.5 KW, as high as 8.4 KW, but yeah, most can only do around 6.6 KW. And some of the older ones split the power if two are being used, so make that then as low as 2.75 KW with a few older J1772 charge stations. Newer Chargepoint J1772s can do 6.6 KW per port, so if there is a way to use both (even from the same charge station) you can get as much as 13.2 KW. I often charge my 2017 Zero SR at 8.4 KW by hogging up two ports, using my external chargers with two J1772 adapters.
Tesla Destination stations vary all over the place. Some on the road can do 16 KW. Others as low as 8. My Tesla Wall Connector at my houses can do 12 KW each.
The free Tesla Destination stations at the Story County Courthouse (in Virginia City, NV) can do 8 KW. But the two J1772's right next to it can do 8.4 KW each. The Tesla Destination stations at the Carson Valley Inn in Minden, NV and the Recharge Restaurant in Sparks can do 16 KW each. And all of these are free and open for anybody to use. I have used all of them (as you can see on Plugshare).
And some people use a lot of the "home chargers" listed on Plugshare, which are usually 12 KW as mine are. So I cannot say 12 KW is useless in the USA as long as you have a 50 amp Tesla-Tap. But I have found a few will turn off in five minutes when a 50 amp Tesla-Tap is used. I have no idea why, never happens at home. But be sure to recheck in ten minutes whenever using a Tesla Destination station with a Tesla Tap.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Even though I can charge my Ego on 120V I still prefer to use 240V since I can cut the amps in half, and the onboard charger won't be worked so hard.
What year is your Ego? 3 KW charger? Or is it around 1.5 KW? I ask because the power doubles on my 2020 SS9- when using 240 VAC, meaning the current does NOT drop at 240 VAC and the charger will work harder.
120 times 12.5 amps=1,500 watts
240 times 12.5 amps=3,000 watts
But if you have a 1.5 KW charge then:
120 times 12.5 amps= 1,500 watts
240 times 6.25 amps= 1,500 watts
So only then is the work reduced (and efficiency increased a little on 240 VAC.
Why this happens is explained in my message here. (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10459.msg96025#msg96025)
I assumed all the Energicas had 3KW chargers. Did the older ones only have a 1.5 KW charger?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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2020 with a 3kW charger. I usually charge it at 7 or 8 amps so about 1.9 kW before losses, and I rarely hear the fan go off because of it.
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Wow, I'm just tuning into this thread now. My 2017 Eva exhibits the exact same behavior as the OP describes. Parked in my cool garage (~65F) and plugged into my Tesla Wall Connector, the bike starts at/near 13A and, within 20 minutes or so, will throttle back to 9-10A. Out of curiosity, I tested on a J1772 (Chargepoint) last week, and got the same behavior out in the wild.
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The J stations locally are mostly 3.3kW.
-Crissa
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The J stations locally are mostly 3.3kW.
-Crissa
Make that 6.6 KW. Most of them by far. But it does vary.
-Don- Reno, NV
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No, they're mostly 3.3. I don't know why. I can't speak for your local station, Don.
-Crissa
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No, they're mostly 3.3. I don't know why. I can't speak for your local station, Don.
-Crissa
I use 100's of J-charge stations and I read the capacity of every single one. The lowest I ever saw was 5.5 KW, and that was in Fallon, NV.
I am not counting when two vehicles are plugged in to very old J-plugs where the power is shared. In fact, I have not even seen that for quite a while.
The charge stations all show the capacity. Often right on the case. Often on a side panel, if not covered. Newer Chargepoint J-stns show the info on screen (6.6 KW per port <13.2 KW total from the same pole>).
When was the last time you charged your zero above two KW? On the road, I rarely charge mine below 6.3 KW.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I just did some simple math as I fast charged as well as AC charged my Energica today.
Heroto: Do you have the My Energica application? It gives a decimal when AC charging. Bike must be keyed on while charging to get the info.
I came to the conclusion the app is showing AC input wattage and the bike is showing DC charging rate, even when on AC.
I fast charged today at 24 KW (Cisco Grove, CA):
24,000 watts (24 KW) divided by my 79 amps= 303.8 VDC (35% SOC).
Using the app at home, 240 VAC charging:
2.4 KW (2,400 watts) divided by my 10 amps= 240 (240 VAC)
1.7 KW (1,700 watts) divided by 7 amps (@ 96 SOC) 242.85 (perhaps need extra decimal on the current, or better accuracy of the current meters, but I assume it's the same 240 VAC as above).
My conclusions:
Bike shows DC current to battery--always.
The My Energica App shows AC input current only, when AC charging.
Power drops near the end of charge, even on AC charge.
We only get the 3 KW rating when we first start the charge. Perhaps even a bit more than 3 KW at first:
240 VAC times 13 amps=3,120 watts.
240 VAC at 14 amps=3,360 watts.
Then as things heat up . . . .
-Don- Reno, NV
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No, they're mostly 3.3. I don't know why. I can't speak for your local station, Don.
-Crissa
I normally don't use local charge stations. They normally have to be at least 50 miles from home (any of the three) before I will want to use them. But I will sometimes "opportunity charge".
Coming back from Auburn today and then around Lake Tahoe and then home via Hwy 50. My first charge was at Cisco Grove, CA(I checked into Plugshare there). 50 Miles from Auburn. My 2nd Charge was at Incline Village, NV. Both those were 24 KW DC charge.
Then on the way to Reno home, I had a late lunch at the Tamarack Casino and I J1772 AC charged there as I ate. Then home to here. That is about as close to home as I will use and I didn't need that charge at all. Called "opportunity charging" when you charge when not really needed to get to the destination. That's only 7 miles from here and I could have made it here several times from the Tamarack with the SOC I had left from my charge in Incline Village.
But it's free and slow (with the ~3 KW AC charger on bike), so it will still be charging when I am done eating and then complete it here. It's now fully charged here.
-Don- Reno, NV
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No, they're mostly 3.3. I don't know why. I can't speak for your local station, Don.
-Crissa
Where have you seen a 3.3 KW max charge station? Something I have never seen anywhere in CA or NV.
I would like to see what Plugshare says about it.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Nowadays, I eat my lunch in my Model 3 Performance while public charging instead of in restaurants. The 15 inch screen really comes in handy!
Edit: I've been to a lot of charging stations, and I've never seen a 3.3 kW. Lowest power's always been 6.6 (205V 32A). I think Crissa's been experiencing those split stations where it cuts the power in half when two vehicles are charging at the same time.
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Nowadays, I eat my lunch in my Model 3 Performance while public charging instead of in restaurants. The 15 inch screen really comes in handy!
Edit: I've been to a lot of charging stations, and I've never seen a 3.3 kW. Lowest power's always been 6.6 (205V 32A). I think Crissa's been experiencing those split stations where it cuts the power in half when two vehicles are charging at the same time.
Yeah, I already mentioned such. But I have not seen that type for quite a while. The last one I recall seeing like that was at a college campus in Grass Valley, CA two years ago. Only one port was not being used, and the most I could get out of it was around 3 KW.
I have not been back there since as now they have other J-stations at better locations near there that do NOT split power and some are free to use.
The free ChargePoint in Fallon, NV is only 5.5 KW. But the free ones (2) in Virginia City is 8.4 KW. Almost all the J1772's in the Reno area are free to use. The few J1772's that cost money are very rare in Nevada (unlike in CA, but there are still a few free ones in CA).
By far, 6.6 KW are the most common in both CA & NV for J1772. I cannot speak for other states.
-Don- Reno, NV