ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: PVNRG on August 11, 2020, 02:08:59 AM
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The 1.2kW charger failed and I want to replace it so the bike can still be charged from 120V. Are there any options to buy a replacement other than through the dealer with their markup price gouging?
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Where are you located?
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I'm in the north east of USA.
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The 1.2kW charger failed and I want to replace it so the bike can still be charged from 120V. Are there any options to buy a replacement other than through the dealer with their markup price gouging?
There are if you're willing to do some of the wiring yourself. For one example, see here. (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=8298.0)
-Don- Reno, NV
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The 1.2kW charger failed and I want to replace it so the bike can still be charged from 120V. Are there any options to buy a replacement other than through the dealer with their markup price gouging?
I assume you already know about the Delta-Q chargers for $600.00. Without the OBC, at least with these, you will be able to key on the bike and then take the key out and continue to charge.
With other charging methods, you will have to leave the key in to close the contactor to charge. And leave it in while charging. So there are other issues to be concerned with, if you want to go with a non-Zero idea without an OBC to close the contactor.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I'm in the north east of USA.
PM sent
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Hey everyone, thanks for the time and information!! It seems that the only option so far for acquiring a stock charger replacement is through a Zero dealer. I don't want to resort to that but if there is no other option then I guess that's what I will need to do.
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Hey everyone, thanks for the time and information!! It seems that the only option so far for acquiring a stock charger replacement is through a Zero dealer. I don't want to resort to that but if there is no other option then I guess that's what I will need to do.
You could try here (https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=3105&description=2016+Zero+Motorcycle+Models), but it probably won't be any cheaper.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Hey everyone, thanks for the time and information!! It seems that the only option so far for acquiring a stock charger replacement is through a Zero dealer. I don't want to resort to that but if there is no other option then I guess that's what I will need to do.
I have had good luck with AF1 Racing in Texas. I have bought two sock chargers from them and only paid the list price of $800, no shipping charges or state sales tax. The new charger that I just purchased has an entirely new product number so maybe it will be more reliable. One can only hope that GWP has managed to come up with a new design that will have a lower failure rate. Photo of the new charger model is attached.
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I have had good luck with AF1 Racing in Texas. I have bought two sock chargers from them and only paid the list price of $800, no shipping charges or state sales tax. The new charger that I just purchased has an entirely new product number so maybe it will be more reliable. One can only hope that GWP has managed to come up with a new design that will have a lower failure rate. Photo of the new charger model is attached.
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More reliable? The only thing about the GWP charger that's reliable is the failure rate. Customers used to buy direct for $200+/- until Zero shut it down. I guess lossing this revenue stream was unacceptable to Zero management.
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The local dealer quoted $800 plus tax. If it is true that the charger manufacturer was selling single quantities direct to consumers for $200 then Zero is clearly ripping people off. From this logic it seems that they probably want to have products with high failure rates to maximize their profits. If that's true then I'm sure their engineers hate this. I was seriously considering buying an SRS in the next half year or so but probably won't on principle if that is now the way Zero operates.
I pulled the charger and plugged it into 120Vac and measured zero volts dc. Are there any communications with the charger required to get it to provide a dc output voltage? I suspect not but think it is prudent to ask. Thanks
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The local dealer quoted $800 plus tax. If it is true that the charger manufacturer was selling single quantities direct to consumers for $200 then Zero is clearly ripping people off. From this logic it seems that they probably want to have products with high failure rates to maximize their profits. If that's true then I'm sure their engineers hate this. I was seriously considering buying an SRS in the next half year or so but probably won't on principle if that is now the way Zero operates.
My opinion is that it is not true at all. There are trade-offs involved. The Zero has a lightweight ~1.3 KW DC output charger in a small space. It also is not cooled by riding or by a fan or anything. It is a difficult task to make a small light uncooled 1.3 KW output charger for such a motorcycle and also be reliable.
I am not saying some minor improvements are not possible, but that has probably been happening anyway, as it seems every new OBC has a different version or stock number.
And Zero buys them from Calex. (https://calex.com/products/high-performance-dc-dc-converters/) And who will make a more reliable one in the same size package? Sure, it could be done, if you want to lower the charge rate and need to charge even longer.
FWIW, I have 10K miles on each of my Zeros and no charger problems yet (knocking on wood (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knocking_on_wood) as I type).
-Don- Reno, NV
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Customers used to buy direct for $200+/- until Zero shut it down. I guess lossing this revenue stream was unacceptable to Zero management.
When was that? I would like to hear more about all that.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Customers used to buy direct for $200+/- until Zero shut it down. I guess lossing this revenue stream was unacceptable to Zero management.
When was that? I would like to hear more about all that.
-Don- Reno, NV
There was a whole investigation into this HUGE MARKUP by the Israel Competition Authority after a customer uncovered this. I'll get some emails pulled next week. At some point we also found invoicing with a shipment of chargers we received from ZERO from the supplier; $200+/-. Based on conversations with Aaron Cheatham, ZERO was/is paying much less. You can use a TCCon charger, Delta Q, DigiNow. Follow whats "going on" with the SRS/SRF. Knowing a little more I'd recommend not investing in a NEW ZERO... wait and see.
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Yeah, I wouldn't expect Zero to be marking up the chargers by 4X, only heard that on this thread. Thinking this through again, it seems that it would make more sense for them to mark them up a reasonable amount and keep their loyal customers happy.
Bottom line now is the question of if the charger is actually fried. Will the charger output dc voltage without any control signals? I just want to be sure before shelling out $800+ for a new one.
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At some point we also found invoicing with a shipment of chargers we received from ZERO from the supplier; $200+/-.
That sounds like something that someone would snap a photo of, mind sharing that photo with us? Or will we have to do something for you first?
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Bottom line now is the question of if the charger is actually fried. Will the charger output dc voltage without any control signals? I just want to be sure before shelling out $800+ for a new one.
I have no idea, as I never removed one or even looked at a wiring diagram of that area.
Perhaps somebody else here knows if the charger can run by itself and / or what must be done to activate it.
-Don- Reno, NV
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There was a whole investigation into this HUGE MARKUP by the Israel Competition Authority...
...But there's never been one thing published about it? Only you know the secrets?
The lack of supporting evidence anywhere kinda undermines this argument. If it existed, wouldn't it be published somewhere?
-Crissa
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So it looks like there is an enable input on the CAN connector. It appears to be enable_not so enabled when low. Not sure if it needs to be pulled low to be low or if is normally low (is there a pull-up resistor on the input). I guess I can measure it...
I'd still appreciate more info from someone more knowledgeable about the functional requirements of this charger.
Connector signals pinout attached.
Thanks!!
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I plugged in the AC and there was no voltage on the charge_n enable pin. Checked all pins and there was zero volts on every one.
I'm pretty sure the charger is dead. That must be where the arcing sound was coming from. The sequence of events when it first failed: First I noticed that the breaker was tripped. Unplugged the charger reset breaker. Plugged in the AC cord at the AC outlet and pulled it out immediately when the garage lights dimmed and I heard arcing sound coming from the bike. Tried plugging it again and nothing, no AC current draw. Later tested DC and voltage when plugged in, zero volts. Just checked CAN port pins and all zero volts. All indications point to a fried charger. If anyone else has any knowledge to add, please do.
Thanks!!
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I plugged in the AC and there was no voltage on the charge_n enable pin. Checked all pins and there was zero volts on every one.
I'm pretty sure the charger is dead. That must be where the arcing sound was coming from. The sequence of events when it first failed: First I noticed that the breaker was tripped. Unplugged the charger reset breaker. Plugged in the AC cord at the AC outlet and pulled it out immediately when the garage lights dimmed and I heard arcing sound coming from the bike. Tried plugging it again and nothing, no AC current draw. Later tested DC and voltage when plugged in, zero volts. Just checked CAN port pins and all zero volts. All indications point to a fried charger. If anyone else has any knowledge to add, please do.
Thanks!!
I agree. That doesn't sound good to me. :( When my charger died I didn't have any circuit breakers trip, nor did any of my lights dim. :) All I got was the smell of garlic in my garage and a non-functioning charger. :'( I also had a small burned hole in the top of the charger and when I tore open the charger box I was rewarded with this view. :o
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I've heard this story a lot, it sounds like your charger is kaput. If it was bikeside it would show up differently in the MBB/BMS logs. You could always post those if you want to check.
The only other things worth checking are the charge fuses. If it's an FX you have two, one on the bike's left side and one in the harness. If it's an S/DS model, you have the one 100A fuse, and that almost never blows. The 100A fuse is easy to check, if you key on the bike and can measure pack voltage on the quick charge port, then that fuse is good. The 10A FX fuse you have to take it out of it's capsule and check.
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I plugged in the AC and there was no voltage on the charge_n enable pin. Checked all pins and there was zero volts on every one.
I'm pretty sure the charger is dead. That must be where the arcing sound was coming from. The sequence of events when it first failed: First I noticed that the breaker was tripped. Unplugged the charger reset breaker. Plugged in the AC cord at the AC outlet and pulled it out immediately when the garage lights dimmed and I heard arcing sound coming from the bike. Tried plugging it again and nothing, no AC current draw. Later tested DC and voltage when plugged in, zero volts. Just checked CAN port pins and all zero volts. All indications point to a fried charger. If anyone else has any knowledge to add, please do.
Thanks!!
I agree. That doesn't sound good to me. :( When my charger died I didn't have any circuit breakers trip, nor did any of my lights dim. :) All I got was the smell of garlic in my garage and a non-functioning charger. :'( I also had a small burned hole in the top of the charger and when I tore open the charger box I was rewarded with this view. :o
Wow!! I thought the entire inside was potted... Maybe I will try to crack open the cover to see inside.
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So I took the cover off and it smells like burned electronics. The charger is completely potted so I can't see anything though. Photo attached.
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So I took the cover off and it smells like burned electronics. The charger is completely potted so I can't see anything though. Photo attached.
I spent an hour chipping and peeling away as much of the potting material as I could to get to the location of the damage. Not an easy job. But you can sure see why the charger might overheat after many hours of charging. That potting material looks to be a good heat insulator. ::)