ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: DonTom on August 06, 2020, 12:36:32 PM
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I received an Email from EV-Go which says:
"Did you see the exciting news?! We are tripling the size of our public fast charging network over the next five years – adding more than 2,700 public fast chargers in 40 metro areas through a partnership with General Motors (GM) to make it even easier to go electric."
I would be much more excited if they would spread them out away from metropolitan areas.
It looks like EV-Go believes EVs are only good for commutes to work and back. In more populated areas there could be a few times we have to wait for a charger or whatever. But out away from most of those areas, there are NO charge stations so we cannot even get there even if we are willing to wait. Especially on electric motorcycles that don't have the 300+ mile freeway range of a Tesla.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I would be less expensive and more efficient if they put all 2,700 charging stations in one location. ;)
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I would be less expensive and more efficient if they put all 2,700 charging stations in one location. ;)
And they almost do that as it is.
But I certainly cannot complain about the number of charge stations between here and Reno, regardless of which route or EV I take.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Yeah, but 2700 chargers (not stations) over five years is terrible. I know it's alot of work, but... Yeah they have an average pf two dc chargers per site while Tesla has and average of six so. That's a site opening every other day for the next five years.
Tesla (not including destination chargers) has installed that many in the last year and expected to double their progress this year (tho mostly in China).
-Crissa
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Yeah, but 2700 chargers (not stations) over five years is terrible. I know it's alot of work, but... Yeah they have an average pf two dc chargers per site while Tesla has and average of six so. That's a site opening every other day for the next five years.
Tesla (not including destination chargers) has installed that many in the last year and expected to double their progress this year (tho mostly in China).
-Crissa
Yeah, Tesla has them all beat, but Tesla makes certain they make NO profit on their Supercharger network. Any money made (includes the possible fines from sitting at full charge) goes into making more Superchargers as well as the maintenance of their Supercharger network.
But I wish they would at least include a J1772 at every Tesla Supercharger. Or at least a 240 VAC outlet or something--and I will happy if they DO profit from the Non-Teslas. Even a 120 VAC outlet is better than nothing (but not by much!).
For an example of why, IMO, this should be done, at Lake Topaz, on the southern CA / NV border on Hwy 395, there are several Tesla Superchargers, but nothing else, not even a 120 VAC outlet that we can use. That would be a very good charge location for other vehicles besides only Tesla. And since the Tesla chargers being there prove they have the voltage for everything else, why is nothing else there?
Someday, I hope to be able to take a ride to Bridgeport on my Energica! I love those Baja fish Tacos at the Burger Barn (https://www.yelp.com/biz/burger-barn-bridgeport), the best I have had anywhere.
But I have to take an ICE bike to get there. Ojne of my favorite rides from Reno, first going to Markleeville, CA and down Monitor Pass (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monitor_Pass). I try to avoid going the fastest most direct way to anywhere when I am riding.
But i will settle for going there direct, if I need to, on an electric.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Yeah, but 2700 chargers (not stations) over five years is terrible.
But add that to the others which are doing the same if not more. The biggest increase I have been seeing is in ChargePoints. For a few examples, the CCS and J1772 chargers in NV City, CA & Truckee, CA. And the new Charepoints (installed but with no juice yet) at Cisco Grove, CA. IMO, CharePoint is doing a better job than EV-GO in adding chargers. And more at needed locations, such as in NV City, CA.
And it looks like only ChargePoint puts a J1772 at every CCS location. At least they have been lately, unlike the others. While the J-1772 is slow, every EV can use it, AFAIK. I give the most credit to ChargePoint for making needed improvements.
However, a charging company I have yet to use, called "EV Connect" (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ev-connect-trillium-announce-completion-of-californias-central-valley-electric-highway-301081685.html) is adding the CCS chargers in NV on Hwy 50. I have to give them the most credit for getting some chargers out in the middle of nowhere.
I can go further east on Hwy 50 with my Energica than I can on I-80, thanks to EV Connect. I should be able to make it to east of Austin, NV which is dead center of NV, where there is another CCS charger.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Once there's Cybertrucks sitting at superchargers you could dangle a J-plug off of them ^-^
-Crissa
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Once there's Cybertrucks sitting at superchargers you could dangle a J-plug off of them ^-^
-Crissa
I am not sure what you mean. Do the Cybertrucks have 240 VAC in them?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Once there's Cybertrucks sitting at superchargers you could dangle a J-plug off of them ^-^
-Crissa
I am not sure what you mean. Do the Cybertrucks have 240 VAC in them?
-Don- Auburn, CA
I think I heard that that Cyber truck (will it be driven by Cybermen? ;) ) will have an AC inverter as a feature of the truck so that contractors can use the truck to power their electrical power equipment.
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I think there was also something said (perhaps even demonstrated) about being able to charge the Cyber Quad while it was sitting in the bed, and that's based off a Zero drivetrain.
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I think I heard that that Cyber truck (will it be driven by Cybermen? ;) ) will have an AC inverter as a feature of the truck so that contractors can use the truck to power their electrical power equipment.
If they are the typical so called "Modified Sine Wave" inverters (which in reality is a Modified Square Wave), I would not let it get near any of my electric motorcycle chargers.
I have a high power inverter in my RV. Around 5 KWs output. I would use it on a microwave oven, but not on an EV charger.
This is why (https://u.cubeupload.com/DonTom/RVInv.jpg). That is from my RV inverter.
However, my RV generator is fine (https://u.cubeupload.com/DonTom/RVGen.jpg) for charging and I use it often to charge my Zero DS.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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If they are the typical...
Oh for effs sake, Don. If it's designed to charge tools and an electric quad, it's going to be good enough to charge a Zero.
-Crissa
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Oh for effs sake, Don. If it's designed to charge tools and an electric quad, it's going to be good enough to charge a Zero.
You may use it all you want to charge your Zero. But don't let a MSW inverter get too close to my bikes.
And MSW inverters often work lousy to charge many things. The true peak voltage is MISSING! So it stays longer at it's lower peak to get the same RMS voltage. Capacitors cannot charge to their peak values and such. Now think about how a voltage doubler works (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_doubler) with the true peak voltage missing. Low voltage output for sure.
BTW, do you know what you read for voltage on a 120 VAC MSF inverter? Only a very few voltmeters can read them accurately. The real 120 VAC will read around 108 volts (even unloaded) and that is really 120 VAC nominal. Not even your voltmeter can read it, unless you have a "TRUE RMS Voltmeter (https://www.northeastparts.com/products/fluke-177-true-rms-digital-multimeter-with-backlight?variant=31625663578147)" which are not very common as they cost quite a bit more. FWIW, I do own such.
So a MSF inverter will even confuse most voltmeters (as well as many people who think their perfectly normal output is low when it is not).
Also, it could be worth your time to read this. (https://www.lifewire.com/modified-sine-wave-inverter-damage-question-534760)
Especially read this part below because your Zero charger is full of SCRs:
"Other Devices That May Not Work:
Some other electronic devices that may or may not work correctly without a pure sine wave include:
"Devices that use silicon-controlled rectifiers"
A MSW inverter probably only has a 5% chance of damaging your charger, just for the fact it is not designed for such. If you feel lucky, do it all you want on your bike. I have my doubts it will even charge to 100%, but perhaps it would. Try it on your bike and let me know!
I will bet that Zero will void any warranty on their chargers is they know a MSW inverter was used to charge it.
I would not hesitate to use a true sinewave inverter to charge a Zero, at least if I first check the waveform and see a clean sinewave, as many items are designed for.
Now that I have said that, I do use a MSW inverter for many things, especially my RV microwave oven. The MW ovens are cheap these days even if they do get damaged. Even to charge my small computer batteries I use a little true sinewave inverter. And guess what? They charge up faster. The difference is quite noticeable.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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...And going on a rant about poor inverters in a product that is designed to charge other devices but hasn't been released yet so you have no idea if it has crappier inverters, is useful and on topic how, Don?
-Crissa
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.. is useful and on topic how, Don?
-Crissa
People my hijack any thread I start, AFAIMC. And I think it is especially okay if I hijack my own thread. IMO, it's normal to have thread drift, just as in real life, at least in most situations. I never did agree about always staying on subject, but with some exceptions, just as in real life.
Besides, this is a "General Discussion" section.
But the info. here is VERY useful. People should understand the risk. The OBCs are flaky enough even when they have a perfect sinewave going in. I wouldn't want to chance anything else, as it can only hurt and not help.
But you may charge your bike any way you wish. Perhaps there is a reason why both my Zero OBCs now have more than 10K miles on them with no issues at all.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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But the info. here is VERY useful. People should understand the risk. The OBCs are flaky enough even when they have a perfect sinewave going in. I wouldn't want to chance anything else, as it can only hurt and not help.
How are people going to find this information? In a click-baity-titled thread? I think this warrants a new thread with a title that corresponds to the content.
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When the charger is designed for such a wide voltage and frequency range, 100-264V and 47-63Hz, I have to wonder if an inverter is really going to cause an issue.
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When the charger is designed for such a wide voltage and frequency range, 100-264V and 47-63Hz, I have to wonder if an inverter is really going to cause an issue.
Voltage and frequency isn't the issue. But this is. (https://www.altestore.com/blog/2015/10/pure-sine-wave-vs-modified-sine-wave-whats-the-difference/#.Xy2INpZKj7g) What I would expect to happen with a MSW inverter on a Zero is the charger efficiency will drop greatly, which means more power wasted in heat and won't get to a full charge.
Most inverters are MSW because they are cheaper to make. I don't think HFT even sells a single true sine wave inverter. But the TSW inverters have come way down in price over the years. Such as this one (https://theinverterstore.com/product/4000-watt-pure-sine-inverter-charger-12-vdc-to-120-vac/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsbug0MeJ6wIVBL7ACh1YnwPMEAQYASABEgK7XfD_BwE#) should be okay to charge a Zero.
Here is how they compare in price. (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32811975392.html)
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I would be less expensive and more efficient if they put all 2,700 charging stations in one location. ;)
To my surprise, a couple of days ago (while in Auburn) I noticed a new J-1772 charge station on PlugShare in MarkleeVille, CA (https://www.plugshare.com/location/252833). That was one of the reasons I just had to come back here. I was the first person ever to check-in to that location. I did that today. I have photos also, but Plugshare has been giving everybody (AFAIK) "API Error" when they try to upload photos. So I am saving them on my computer until somebody fixes the bug on PlugShare. I had the same issue in Auburn as here where everything is different, so I know it's a Plugshare bug.
I just figured out on a map that this new charge station will let me ride my Zero SR to BridgePort to have my Baja fish Taco! And my favorite way, down Monitor Pass.
But there is still one thing that makes me nervous about doing this trip. I have to rely on only one Tesla Destination Charger in BridgePort (https://www.plugshare.com/location/87797) with my Zero SR. There is a fast charge station in BridgePort, but the 70 miles to the next charge station in Miden is Iffy in range for my Energica. Now, if I had one of the Plus models . . . . But then 3KW is too slow at MarkleeVille--but I then could use Hwy 395 all the way.
The best answer of all, is more charge stations out in the boonies, far from everything, as in Markleeville. But that one great location makes me think some good changes are soon coming. It a new building in Markleeville that doesn't even show on my satellite view of my sent Spot Messenger message (https://www.findmespot.com/en-us/mylocation?id=1MIMXj/38.77142N/119.81720W). The unpaved road shown there is really paved and with new buildings. With two new J1772 CharePoints!
-Don- Reno, NV