ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Electric_Adventures on July 22, 2020, 09:31:15 PM
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I’m going to be taking my Zero on an 800 mile trip soon and I’m planning on tent camping between stops and at my destination. I have a charge tank but I’m not sure where to look for the best prices/most reliability for a Nema adapter for the Zero’s charging. Can anybody list some options with pros/cons of different adapters available?
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Here's the one i have: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Deluxe-Dual-Voltage-EV-Portable-Smart-Charger-Plus/353124775094?hash=item5237e074b6:g:5bgAAOSwkIde-8Vt
Looks like other than ebay this one is not available anymore. However, it works great!
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Here's the one i have: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Deluxe-Dual-Voltage-EV-Portable-Smart-Charger-Plus/353124775094?hash=item5237e074b6:g:5bgAAOSwkIde-8Vt
Looks like other than ebay this one is not available anymore. However, it works great!
This one can only do 16A, the Charge Tank will work, but only at half of is capacity, if those camp outlets are 50 Amps, then you need an EVSE that can do at least 32A, in order to be able to use your Charge Tank at full power.
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I’m going to be taking my Zero on an 800 mile trip soon and I’m planning on tent camping between stops and at my destination. I have a charge tank but I’m not sure where to look for the best prices/most reliability for a Nema adapter for the Zero’s charging. Can anybody list some options with pros/cons of different adapters available?
See here. (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10305.0)
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I’m going to be taking my Zero on an 800 mile trip soon and I’m planning on tent camping between stops and at my destination. I have a charge tank but I’m not sure where to look for the best prices/most reliability for a Nema adapter for the Zero’s charging. Can anybody list some options with pros/cons of different adapters available?
Can somebody here tell me if the ADDED Zero Charge tanks (for the plain S, SR and DS, DSR, etc) come with a granny cable?
What I really want to know is if the ADDED charge tanks are compatible with 120 VAC charging. Anybody here have the specs for the input voltage specs of the ADDED (not the SR and SR/F) charge tanks?
I have never owned a charge tank, I just want to know what they use for the charger (or the AC input voltage specs of it).
-Don- Auburn, CA
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No, they don't, because the Charge Tank doesn't replace the On Board Charger.
Which is sort of an in-built granny-cable.
-Crissa
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No, they don't, because the Charge Tank doesn't replace the On Board Charger.
Which is sort of an in-built granny-cable.
-Crissa
IIRC, the OBC is part of the charge tank to get that extra 1.3 KW to add to the charger used in the charge tank. But since the OBC will accept 120 VAC, I would think there is a good chance the charge tank will also. I don't know what charger the added charge tanks have.
A granny cable does not change voltage, wattage or anything. All it does is convert outlets to J-1772. But if the added charge tank is not designed for a granny cable, there is a chance the tank will not accept 120 VAC. I kinda assume it will, but I want to know for certain. I can find no AC input specs on the charge tanks. If they come with a granny cable, then I will assume they can be used on 120 VAC, but that will have very little advantage over the OBC, as around 1.92 KW is the safe limit from a 120 VAC outlet anyway (120 VAC times 16 <the standard -20% for safety from a 20 amp Circuit Breaker>).
So there is also a good chance that the charge tank will only accept 240 VAC as there is no real advantage for it to also accept 120 VAC. IIRC, you can still charge with the OBC only and not use the charge tank at all. It will automatically disconnect the charge tank if there is power going into the OBC, (IIRC).
I figure the odds are close to 50-50 of the added tank option working with 120 VAC.
What I am really curious about is the granny cables I modified. I know they will work on 240 VAC on any J-1772 input, no exceptions. But the added Charge Tanks on the S, SR, DS, DSR may or may not work with 120 VAC and since there is no real advantage over the OBC for 120 VAC, there is a chance it will not work at all with 120 VAC. But then again, it could, if a standard EV charger is used in the added tanks.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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The OBC and Charge Tank aren't tied together, otherwise you wouldn't be able to use it on a 7.2kW/h bike as it could result in more than 1C charging. Zero specifically mentions not to use both at the same time on these bikes (don't remember if it's in the bike's manual or one for the Charge Tank). The J-1772 standard is 120-240v unlike Mennekes so it should be able take a regular granny charger.
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Can somebody here tell me if the ADDED Zero Charge tanks (for the plain S, SR and DS, DSR, etc) come with a granny cable?
What I really want to know is if the ADDED charge tanks are compatible with 120 VAC charging. Anybody here have the specs for the input voltage specs of the ADDED (not the SR and SR/F) charge tanks?
I have never owned a charge tank, I just want to know what they use for the charger (or the AC input voltage specs of it).
-Don- Auburn, CA
I can confirm that the 6KW Charge Tank is working at 120V, but it will have to be an 120V EVSE.
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I can confirm that the 6KW Charge Tank is working at 120V, but it will have to be an 120V EVSE.
So then a granny cable should work with it on 120 VAC.
How many KW charge can you get with 120 VAC from the charge tank? Is it more than just running the OBC alone?
Another possibility is the charge tank is not turned on with 120 VAC and it all just goes to the OBC and makes no difference in charging time.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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The OBC and Charge Tank aren't tied together, otherwise you wouldn't be able to use it on a 7.2kW/h bike as it could result in more than 1C charging. Zero specifically mentions not to use both at the same time on these bikes (don't remember if it's in the bike's manual or one for the Charge Tank). The J-1772 standard is 120-240v unlike Mennekes so it should be able take a regular granny charger.
See here. (http://media.zeromotorcycles.com/resources/user-guides/2016/2016-Zero-Charge-Tank-User-Guide.pdf)
" The Charge Tank operates in combination with the on-board charger without the need for separate connection. If connected to a 240 volt circuit, the Charge Tank will initiate charging at 10 amps to deliver a total of 2.4 kW of charging"
-Don- Auburn, CA
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The Charge Tank effectively triples the on-board charging speed of 2015 and later Zero S, SR, DS and DSR motorcycles when used with level 2 charging stations on the J1772 standard. This dealer-installed 2.5 kW charger works in tandem with the standard on-board 1.3kW charger to deliver a total of 3.8 kW of charging power.
Weirdly it says this in the first paragraph of the document, how did you miss that, Don?
Anyhow, it doesn't change my statement: The existing on board charger is still there, so it's a granny cable of sorts.
-Crissa
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The OBC and Charge Tank aren't tied together, otherwise you wouldn't be able to use it on a 7.2kW/h bike as it could result in more than 1C charging. Zero specifically mentions not to use both at the same time on these bikes (don't remember if it's in the bike's manual or one for the Charge Tank). The J-1772 standard is 120-240v unlike Mennekes so it should be able take a regular granny charger.
See here. (http://media.zeromotorcycles.com/resources/user-guides/2016/2016-Zero-Charge-Tank-User-Guide.pdf)
" The Charge Tank operates in combination with the on-board charger without the need for separate connection. If connected to a 240 volt circuit, the Charge Tank will initiate charging at 10 amps to deliver a total of 2.4 kW of charging"
-Don- Auburn, CA
Those are the older Charge Tanks, the 6kW ones are completely separate (hence why the bike needs to be keyed on the start charging unlike the OBC) and will need a separate cable to be used alongside the OBC. That's also why I said it would be over 1C on a 7.2kW/h bike, 6+1.3.
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Those are the older Charge Tanks, the 6kW ones are completely separate...
...And I don't think they're available for the S-frame bikes, either. They're not on Zero's website, they only list the old ones.
The F-platform bikes come with a granny cable.
-Crissa
PS: No, yes, the newer Charge Tank is faster. I was wrong. I wish their accessory catalog was better. There's no manual online for the 2019 Charge Tanks. https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/owner-resources/
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The Charge Tank effectively triples the on-board charging speed of 2015 and later Zero S, SR, DS and DSR motorcycles when used with level 2 charging stations on the J1772 standard. This dealer-installed 2.5 kW charger works in tandem with the standard on-board 1.3kW charger to deliver a total of 3.8 kW of charging power.
Weirdly it says this in the first paragraph of the document, how did you miss that, Don?
Anyhow, it doesn't change my statement: The existing on board charger is still there, so it's a granny cable of sorts.
-Crissa
I missed what? And what granny cable? It's just a cable with no indicators, no electronics, unlike a granny cable.
The OBC adds to the charge tank power. It would be a dumb design to not use both with 240 VAC charging.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I missed what?
The quoted statement.
-Crissa
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I missed what?
The quoted statement. Crissa
You mean the quoted statement that said exactly the same thing as I did?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Those are the older Charge Tanks, the 6kW ones are completely separate...
...And I don't think they're available for the S-frame bikes, either. They're not on Zero's website, they only list the old ones.
The F-platform bikes come with a granny cable.
-Crissa
What are S-frame bikes, S/DS? The charge tank for those has been the same (in terms of fitment) since 2015. I don't know what the original model's wattage was but it was bumped to 2.5kW in 2016 and used the OBC at the same time for 3.8kW and then in 2017 they came out with the 6.5kW (could've sworn it was only 6kW) which works on its own.
It's listed at the top on this page, doesn't mention the wattage but does say it's 6x faster (1.3x6=7.8kW, so 6.5kW plus the 1.3kW OBC): https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/accessories
And it's also mentioned here but they say it's 6kW, same as the SR/F: https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/charging/
The OBC adds to the charge tank power. It would be a dumb design to not use both with 240 VAC charging.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Not with the latest model.
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I edited my post six minutes before your reply, where I noticed the difference. The brochure that Don linked to is the older charger, not the new one.
They have most definitely changed since release, even if the new 2019 Charge Tank fits the 2015 models, it's not the 2017 or 2015 Charge Tank inside.
-Crissa
Not with the latest model.
You're going to have hafta support that statement, tho. I can't find a new manual that states that the 6KW is or is not Tank+OBC.
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What makes you think it would be different from the 2017? I can't find any mention of any changes, I did think perhaps it was increased from 6 to 6.5 at some point but the unofficial manual says the 6.5 was released in 2017.
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Those are the older Charge Tanks, the 6kW ones are completely separate (hence why the bike needs to be keyed on the start charging unlike the OBC) and will need a separate cable to be used alongside the OBC. That's also why I said it would be over 1C on a 7.2kW/h bike, 6+1.3.
Can you run both at the same time? Such as the 6 KW charge tank with 240 VAC and the OBC with 120 VAC at the same time, if you have a 14.4 KWH battery?
Even the 7.2 KWH is close. 6.0 KW plus 1.3 KW= 7.3 KW. But the 7.2 is not the nominal capacity, is the max, so it is probably a bit over the 1C limit, as you mentioned. Do they do anything to prevent both being used at the same time on the 7.2 KWH bikes?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Those are the older Charge Tanks, the 6kW ones are completely separate (hence why the bike needs to be keyed on the start charging unlike the OBC) and will need a separate cable to be used alongside the OBC. That's also why I said it would be over 1C on a 7.2kW/h bike, 6+1.3.
Can you run both at the same time? Such as the 6 KW charge tank with 240 VAC and the OBC with 120 VAC at the same time, if you have a 14.4 KWH battery?
Even the 7.2 KWH is close. 6.0 KW plus 1.3 KW= 7.3 KW. But the 7.2 is not the nominal capacity, is the max, so it is probably a bit over the 1C limit, as you mentioned. Do they do anything to prevent both being used at the same time on the 7.2 KWH bikes?
-Don- Auburn, CA
I would imagine you could run each at different voltages as the inputs are entirely separate, although I can't imagine many situations where that would be necessary.
Nominal is 6.8kW/h if I remember correctly so it would almost definitely be over 1C (my OBC usually starts off jumping between 900-1000W), especially it actually is a 6.5kW charger. I don't think there is anything to prevent you from using both and that's why the warning is in the manual. I would have thought that the bike would be able to tell that the charge tank is running and then tell the OBC not to run but perhaps that sort of control isn't possible.
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Can you run both at the same time? Such as the 6 KW charge tank with 240 VAC and the OBC with 120 VAC at the same time, if you have a 14.4 KWH battery?
-Don- Auburn, CA
Yes, you can. I did it after I emailed Zero, and they confirmed that is ok to do it.
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What makes you think it would be different from the 2017? I can't find any mention of any changes, I did think perhaps it was increased from 6 to 6.5 at some point but the unofficial manual says the 6.5 was released in 2017.
Well, first, the charging times for the 2019 tank are much faster '6x' advertised on the Zero website vs the '3x' advertised in the older pamphlet.
Second, TheRan and TEV both say that the tanks are different. I have no reason to doubt them, I just can't find any newer documentation since the site overhaul.
-Crissa
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What makes you think it would be different from the 2017? I can't find any mention of any changes, I did think perhaps it was increased from 6 to 6.5 at some point but the unofficial manual says the 6.5 was released in 2017.
Well, first, the charging times for the 2019 tank are much faster '6x' advertised on the Zero website vs the '3x' advertised in the older pamphlet.
Second, TheRan and TEV both say that the tanks are different. I have no reason to doubt them, I just can't find any newer documentation since the site overhaul.
-Crissa
Different from the 2015 and 2016 sure, but the 2017 was the same 6.5kW according to the unofficial manual.
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Different from the 2015 and 2016 sure, but the 2017 was the same 6.5kW according to the unofficial manual.
I don't think that was ever a 6.5KW, or 6.6KW Charge Tank, the most powerful is the 6KW one, like I have on my 2019 DSR, and I believe that was intentionally limited to 6KW, or 50A, because a 7.2KW pack is 1C at 54A , so, I guess that they wanted to be able to install it on the motorcycles that had the 7.2KW pack too. Or maybe was some other weird reason.
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Different from the 2015 and 2016 sure, but the 2017 was the same 6.5kW according to the unofficial manual.
I don't think that was ever a 6.5KW, or 6.6KW Charge Tank, the most powerful is the 6KW one, like I have on my 2019 DSR, and I believe that was intentionally limited to 6KW, or 50A, because a 7.2KW pack is 1C at 54A , so, I guess that they wanted to be able to install it on the motorcycles that had the 7.2KW pack too. Or maybe was some other weird reason.
Have you only ever seen 6kW (or there abouts) from the app then? Come to think of it 6kW would make more sense as it can be installed on 2015 models and those were less than 7.2, I think 6.8 (maybe even less) so the nominal capacity would probably be somewhere around 6.4-6.5. A bit strange that they'd say it's 6 times faster though.
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Different from the 2015 and 2016 sure, but the 2017 was the same 6.5kW according to the unofficial manual.
I can't find a 2017 description except the one Don linked to.
-Crissa
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The link to the manual? That's for the 2016 CT, says so in the URL. Here's the info in the unofficial manual:
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Charge_Tank
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I was trying to find outside confirmation.
-Crissa
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As you may already know it's difficult to find information on older models and components. I had a look through some user manuals, the ones for 2017 bikes say that the CT provides 3 times faster charging which would be about 3.9kW and has no warning about using it in combination with the OBC so it must be talking about the 2016 CT. The manuals for 2018 bikes do have the warning so they're talking about the latest CT. According to the unofficial manual the latest CT came out in late 2017 so it would make sense that it's not in the manual for bikes of that model year.
The manual for reference, page 5.9: http://media.zeromotorcycles.com/resources/owners-manuals/2018/2018-Zero-Owners-Manual-S-SR-DS-DSR.pdf
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Yeah, that was the closest reference I could find, too.
But I didn't see statistics for the Charge Tank at all.
-Crissa