ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Richard230 on July 02, 2020, 03:53:41 AM
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My newspaper just reported on new California electric vehicle fees that are going into effect today. Here is what the article said:
"A $100 fee begins today for electric cars with a model year of 2020 or later. This will be followed by an annual registration fee that varies based on the market value of the vehicle. On the low end, the fees are $25 for a vehicle valued at less than $5,000, but anyone with a $60,000-plus plug-in vehicle will be paying $175 per year. It is expected to generate $52 billion over 10 years, which will be put back into the state' budget for infrastructure repairs." (Or so they say..... ::) )
I assume that is in addition to the standard ICE vehicle yearly registration fees. I have yet to hear if this new fee also applies to electric motorcycles, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did. ???
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Waiting for someone to get their registration, I guess.
That's a different wording than I saw before... That's not so bad, then.
They still over-value my Zero, tho.
-Crissa
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I wouldn't mind if they actually used it for infrastructure repairs, but most likely it will be siphoned off for someones pet project. I'm not anti-tax or fee, I'm anti-no accountability and rampant spending of tax payer money.
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I wouldn't mind if they actually used it for infrastructure repairs, but most likely it will be siphoned off for someones pet project. I'm not anti-tax or fee, I'm anti-no accountability and rampant spending of tax payer money.
It's to make up for the lack of revenue that repairs the roads from the gas tax that we don't pay with EVs.
I agree with it, the road money has to come from somewhere when we all have EVs. However, it's a big rip-off to me. With ICE vechiles I only pay the tax when I buy the gasoline. I cannot ride them all at once, so I only pay as I use them.
But having four EV's I have to pay four times the tax even if I do not use them at all. I have to pay the road tax as my EVs sit in the garage, unlike with ICE vehicles, where I only pay as they are being used.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I wouldn't mind if they actually used it for infrastructure repairs, but most likely it will be siphoned off for someones pet project. I'm not anti-tax or fee, I'm anti-no accountability and rampant spending of tax payer money.
It's to make up for the lack of revenue that repairs the roads from the gas tax that we don't pay with EVs.
I agree with it, the road money has to come from somewhere when we all have EVs. However, it's a big rip-off to me. With ICE vechiles I only pay the tax when I buy the gasoline. I cannot ride them all at once, so I only pay as I use them.
But having four EV's I have to pay four times the tax even if I do not use them at all. I have to pay the road tax as my EVs sit in the garage, unlike with ICE vehicles, where I only pay as they are being used.
-Don- Reno, NV
Lack of revenue from EVs? At this point that can't be that big of a hole. California has a lot of EVs, but the vast majority of vehicles are still ICE. In the future this makes sense.
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Lack of revenue from EVs? At this point that can't be that big of a hole. California has a lot of EVs, but the vast majority of vehicles are still ICE. In the future this makes sense.
Why should EV's which are often quite heavy, get a break from the road tax that all ICE vehicles must pay that use the roads?
No single make of any car will leave a large "hole". Why should EV's get a break using the same roads as everybody else?
However, I don't think they way it is done is fair to people like me who have four EVs being road taxed when only one can be on the road at a time, but until somebody comes up with a better idea to support the roads, I will have to live with it. All four of mine are road taxed even if they never leave my garage. At least with ICE vehicles, it is always pay as you in a single vehicle. No road tax on ICE vehicles in garages as there is on EVs.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I think EV road taxes should be based upon the vehicle's weight and mileage driven or ridden every year. Unfortunately that is not going to happen as legislators like quick and easy solutions to taxes and not ones that are fair and complicated. Personally, I wouldn't have an problem with installing a device on my Zero that measured the mileage ridden each year, or maybe I could take it to a shop to have the speedometer's odometer reading documented like they already do in CA with car emission inspections.
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I think EV road taxes should be based upon the vehicle's weight and mileage driven or ridden every year. Unfortunately that is not going to happen as legislators like quick and easy solutions to taxes and not ones that are fair and complicated. Personally, I wouldn't have an problem with installing a device on my Zero that measured the mileage ridden each year, or maybe I could take it to a shop to have the speedometer's odometer reading documented like they already do in CA with car emission inspections.
Tesla transmits such information automatically. From here in Auburn, CA I can see my odometer in my Tesla in Reno. It now has 4,598 miles on my 2017 Tesla Model 3 (I don't drive it much). I just now checked the mileage on the Tesla odometer exactly 99.0 miles away from the car.
BTW, in Nevada, starting last year, every time I renew a vehicle registration I am asked for the mileage. On ICE or EVs. I wonder if changes are already in the plans. NV requires smog checks on ICE cars every year, they also get the mileage that way. But since EVs don't require smog checks . . .
-Don- Auburn, CA
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There will never be a fair way to do this down to the penny. There isn't with ICE vehicles either. Case in point - some gas is not used for ICE vehicles on the roads, like dirt bikes. Some gas is used for lawn equipment. Some EV motorcycles, like an FXS, could also be used off-road.
I think EV road taxes should be based upon the vehicle's weight and mileage driven or ridden every year. Unfortunately that is not going to happen as legislators like quick and easy solutions to taxes and not ones that are fair and complicated.
I'd rather have simple. The last thing I want are my EV costs to look like tax forms. As was mentioned above, a better solution is to simply have accountability from the government on where those tax dollars go.
We may not like it, but having multiple vehicles is not a necessity. It's a luxury. You still have to pay for insurance on plated vehicles sitting in your garage too.
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You still have to pay for insurance on plated vehicles sitting in your garage too.
You actually don't, only to ride it on the road, and many people that don't ride year round insure their bike(s) on a monthly basis and don't renew it when riding season is over. Also, having a garaged bike insured still serves a purpose as it's still vulnerable to theft or damage.
Trying to justify the EV fee as compensation for lost revenue from reduced gas sales doesn't make any sense. First of all you're still paying tax when you pay for electricity, and secondly if you wanted to argue that the amount of tax paid is lower than if it was a gas bike then hybrid cars should also pay a fee, in fact there should be a fee on all vehicles based on their fuel efficiency with the least efficient paying the least. In the end you just end up punishing those with lower emissions.
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Trying to justify the EV fee as compensation for lost revenue from reduced gas sales doesn't make any sense. First of all you're still paying tax when you pay for electricity, and secondly if you wanted to argue that the amount of tax paid is lower than if it was a gas bike then hybrid cars should also pay a fee, in fact there should be a fee on all vehicles based on their fuel efficiency with the least efficient paying the least. In the end you just end up punishing those with lower emissions.
Exactly what I said. There isn't a fair way to do it, short of the Guv'ment going all Big Brother on us.
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All gas ends up in the air or as pollution, though, so the more tax on it, the better.
-Crissa
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Trying to justify the EV fee as compensation for lost revenue from reduced gas sales doesn't make any sense. First of all you're still paying tax when you pay for electricity,
If it is sales tax and not a road tax, it doesn't count as that will not help with roads.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Trying to justify the EV fee as compensation for lost revenue from reduced gas sales doesn't make any sense. First of all you're still paying tax when you pay for electricity,
If it is sales tax and not a road tax, it doesn't count as that will not help with roads.
-Don- Auburn, CA
I figured it would be like it is here in the UK, roads are paid for from a general tax which is funded by any tax payment, including the vehicle tax which many people erroneously refer to as road tax. It's a common rebuttal from cyclists when they get told by car drivers that they shouldn't be on the road as they don't pay any road tax, when in reality they contribute to road maintenance as much as anyone else. It also means that even people who don't directly use the roads, but may indirectly benefit from its existence, end up contributing to funding of it.
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I figured it would be like it is here in the UK, roads are paid for from a general tax which is funded by any tax payment,
Here (USA), it used to be as fair as possible. Road tax revenue only went to roads and was paid for by gasoline. A heaver vehicle would buy more gas than a motorcycle, so everybody was paying their fair share to use the roads.
EVs, as they increase in numbers, causes a problem. Not fair at all, IMO, but there is not much that can be done to make it fair when most people charge at home.
An example is me and my four EVs. I have to pay for three EVs to sit in my garage not being used. With ICE vehicles, I am on the road with one and buy gas for one, as it should be. My other ICE vehicles are only paying for the roads when being used, unlike my EVs that pay for the roads by registration fees.
I am not complaining at all, just explaining how it works and its unfairness compared to ICE vehicles. But I cannot think of a better idea. It's kinda like insurance. I only ride one bike at a time, but I have to insure all ten for liability so I pay ten times as much towards insurance on my motorcycles.
But it's my choice to own ten, so it's difficult to complain about such.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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It " Should " be as simple as a mileage reading at registration time. You drove it this much, you pay this much.
Weight and how much damage the vehicle might do to the road would be nice to have in the equation.
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It " Should " be as simple as a mileage reading at registration time. You drove it this much, you pay this much.
Weight and how much damage the vehicle might do to the road would be nice to have in the equation.
Yep, that sounds even better. I think Nevada is getting ready to do that. They are now asking for the mileage on ALL vehicles, ICE or EVs when they are re-registered. With ICE vehicles, they can verify the mileage when they go in for smog checks every year as is required in the two largest NV counties.
And on EV's they could check over the internet, at least on some such as with Teslas. My Tesla is in Reno, NV and I can read its odometer here in Auburn, CA on the Tesla App. Next it will probably be all EVs including motorcycles that send such info over the web.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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According to an article in my newspaper yesterday, California registration fees do not go toward road maintenance but to many other things, such as funding the CHP, DMV, the courts, the High Speed Rail Authority, local public transportation and other random items, as the state legislature has ordained. Sounds like a "slush fund" to me. ::) Only the gasoline tax is required to be used for road maintenance. So how is the EV fee, which will be increasing every year with inflation, going to pay for road maintenance, again? >:(
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According to an article in my newspaper yesterday, California registration fees do not go toward road maintenance but to many other things, such as funding the CHP, DMV, the courts, the High Speed Rail Authority, local public transportation and other random items, as the state legislature has ordained. Sounds like a "slush fund" to me. ::) Only the gasoline tax is required to be used for road maintenance. So how is the EV fee, which will be increasing every year with inflation, going to pay for road maintenance, again? >:(
Could too many EVs be the reason why the roads in the SF Bay Area never improve? ;D
-Don- Auburn, CA
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No, EVs are not a significant portion of the installed base.
Mostly it was Republicans over the 90s and 00s refusing to keep up with the cost of maintaining roads.
And paying for patrolling, busses, trains, bike paths, sidewalks and rest areas are all are part of roads unless you're a privileged rich snob. These things increase the capacity and safety of roads to carry private vehicles.
-Crissa
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Here is the latest article regarding the new EV fee that went into effect this month. Naturally, there was no thought about electric motorcycles when the new fee law was passed. It will be interesting to see if owners of electric motorcycles get hit with the same $100 registration fee as owners of electric cars. Apparently hybrid vehicles slip pass the fees even though they use a lot less fuel than ICE-only cars. Hopefully, the fee will actually go toward road maintenance instead of being diverted to other state programs.
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Busses and trains remove trips (traffic and wear) from the roads, so they're just as important or more so as putting down fresh blacktop.
-Crissa
"It's a shame so many EV driver put...". Dude, annual costs are still costs. Talk about a sheltered reporter. This why reporting should be paid work rather than done by dilettantes who have no idea that people might have budgets and limitations and need to eat.
And their math isn't shown about gas taxes but it's off by about 2x. They reason they chose $100 is because it's the about same as 10k miles at the target 30mpg. But a fuel efficient car like a hybrid does 60mpg and not all cars drive the average number of miles.
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Yesterday I received the CA DMV bill for my 2018 Zero's 2021 vehicle registration fee. I was happy to see that I didn't get hit with that additional $100 EV fee increase. So I guess it either doesn't apply to motorcycles or only gets added on to electric vehicles purchased after July 2020. ??? However, I did get hit, as does everyone else who owns a vehicle in California, with the automatic yearly increase in the vehicle registration fee. :(
Here is the breakdown between this year's bill and last year's bill: 2019: Registration fee: $138, License fee: $97, county/district fee: $20. Total $255.
2020: Registration fee: $145, License fee: $85, county/district fee: $20. Total $250. For a total decrease of $5 this year. (The license fee is based upon the initial price of the vehicle and its age.)
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Busses and trains remove trips (traffic and wear) from the roads, so they're just as important or more so as putting down fresh blacktop.
Trains yes, but I don't think this argument works for busses. Pavement damage is roughly proportional to the 4th power of vehicle weight.
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Busses and trains remove trips (traffic and wear) from the roads, so they're just as important or more so as putting down fresh blacktop.
Trains yes, but I don't think this argument works for busses. Pavement damage is roughly proportional to the 4th power of vehicle weight.
That's true for just the road surface, but not for everything else.
-Crissa