ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: DonTom on July 01, 2020, 12:41:48 PM
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I hope everybody is in the mood for the long version.
Today, I rode My 2020 Esse Esse 9 from Auburn, CA to Grass Valley and there I fast charged to around 85% and all was fine. I was headed here to Reno taking CA Hwy 20. By the time I got to CA I-80, I was getting hungry so I decided to stop at Cisco Grove and have a meal from the Sunway Sandwhich shop as I used the slow J-1772 charger next to it at the gas station. I charged for around an hour and was up to around 70 SOC when I decided to ride on. The plan was I could fast charge in Truckee. However, when I got to Truckee a quick look at the SOC shows still way up in the green so I decided to ride all the way home. No more charge stations on the way back until I get into Reno. Most of this is down hill, so I didn't think much of the extra good range.
But I have to climb up a big steep hill to get to my house. And the start of the hill, I look at my SOC again. It still says well in the green, but at 69% SOC on the Bike's screen. It also says my range is 320 miles left on this charge. I got up the hill more than a mile and it stays at exactly the same spot. Then I look at the My Energica App mounted on the bike. It also says 69%, but shows my range to be 24, 526 miles left on the charge (don't I wish!). It also says my average consumption is 999.9.
By this time, I realize part of the screen is stuck where it shows these numbers. But the MPH and all that still works fine.
So then I check the diagnostics. I have a code "P1040" which means "charger fan open circuit". I have not yet checked the fuses, but I will do that right now, so please wait a few minutes, don't go anywhere! . . . .
I am now back. . .
The six fuses I can easily get to are all fine. Each has voltage on each side of all six. But I see in the user manual there is no fuse listed for the charger fan.
Anyway, I charged to 100% when I got home. But it was way too fast to be a real 100%, about 30 minutes to get to full after all that riding. I looked at the bike an hour or so later after being off, and this time it said it was at 65% SOC. So I have it charging again and it looks like a real legit charge time to full now, as it says 1.5 hours to get to full (240 VAC charging).
I was lucky I made it home, as I have no idea what my real SOC was when I got here. But it was probably down very very low. So I have now learned to notice if the SOC is changing, not just take a quick look, downhill or not!
I do not hear the fan coming on, so the fan error looks like it is for real. I just now again checked the bike. I am now at 80% SOC, 1hr 26 min to full charge. Charge rate is 2KW, 7 amps (240 VAC x 7 amps is only 1,680 watts, but close enough, I guess). I assume the higher charger heat from no fan running is causing a lower charge rate. I normally get a 3 KW charge at 80% SOC, IIRC.
But now, it looks like perhaps my only problem is the fan. I did notice it was getting a bit noisy the last time I heard the charger fan run, so that is probably related to the P1040.
So what can I check with this fan issue? A quick look at the Owner Manual doesn't say much about P1040 other than "Charger Open Circuit Fault" and the SVC manual says even less!
Any ideas?
-Don- Reno, NV
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Don't know about fan, but when I test rode the SS9 last year (13kwh version), it said 65% SOC in the showroom and conked out literally 2 miles later at 0% SOC after a few hundred yards of limp mode. The fact it claimed to have 65% when it was clearly impossible sounds not unlike one of the symptoms you had. (Left everyone in the shop rather embarrassed)
Cas :)
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Sorry to hear about the issues Don. Hopefully Demoni or someone from Energica will see this and chime in. I know it’s a long haul to get your bike back to Livermore for service so I’m following this with interest. If you plan on attempting a ride to Livermore feel free to stop at my place in Antioch for an L2 charge.
I haven’t had your issue but ever since my firmware update I’ve had a handful of instances where I turn the bike on and it shuts off after going through what I’m assuming is a type of power on self test. Turning the ignition back off and on has worked every time so far so it’s more of very minor issue than anything that’s left me with any real concern.
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Years ago my 1986 Honda VFR700FII fan expired due to its bearings giving up, causing my bike to overheat while in stop-and-go traffic. So I replaced the fan with a new one. From then on, at each service I would check the operation of the fan by shorting out the ground wire by disconnecting it from its connector and touching the ground wire to the frame with the ignition on. If the fan started running without making any weird noises I knew it was still good. It is quite possible that your fan has called it quits like mine did and perhaps a replacement can be ordered and installed by you without needing a trip to your dealer.
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I've encountered something very similar before. I was riding North up Hwy 1 and realized that the power indicator at the top of the screen wasn't populated. You know the green bar that shows a sort of representation of amp draw on the right and a blue bar to the left to indicate regen. No activity on it at all, and my SoC wasn't changing even after miles. As the bike continued it grew increasingly confident that because I was traveling several miles with no power draw that I probably had close to 300 miles of range like this.
I pulled off to the side of the road and turned the bike off, waited a minute or two, and turned it back on. the SoC was the same but the bar was now populated. Upon getting back on the highway the SoC and estimated range both started dropping, but I knew it wasn't totally right. I figured the best option would be to charge the bike to full and give it a reset to a true 100%. I pulled into a DC station at probably 20% but the bike thought it was like 65% and initiated a charge.
The station believed what the bike said, that it was 65% or so and after a few minutes I was in the 90s but still going full speed. In reality I was probably at like 40%. Admittedly I became nervous when the bike got to 99% and held the full 70 amps input for 10 minutes. The BMS was still watching voltage, so eventually the charge tapered and evened out. After the charge session the bike was fine again.
So again, the initial indicator that something was amiss was the power bar at the top of the screen not populating. If you see your bike doing this, pull over, turn it off for a minute or two, and see if that restores functionality. After that, figure out some way to charge the bike to full as that seems to clear out whatever glitched it out in the first place.
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So again, the initial indicator that something was amiss was the power bar at the top of the screen not populating. If you see your bike doing this, pull over, turn it off for a minute or two, and see if that restores functionality. After that, figure out some way to charge the bike to full as that seems to clear out whatever glitched it out in the first place.
Thanks to all who replied.
Yesterday, it was quite sunny after Cisco Grove and it made it difficult to see much on the screen, but now that I know that charge/discharge bar can be an important indicator, I will be sure to check it more often when I can.
I just now, since it's all very cooled off, checked my bike's charging. As I expected, it is now charging at the full 3 KW (13 amp at 240 VAC =3,120 watts) as all is very cooled off overnight. But I will disconnect the charger in a minute or so before it gets too hot. For now, perhaps I can get my own little 12 VDC fan to use while charging and put it near the charger, since the seat is up while charging anyway.
It looks like it is probably not too much trouble to get to the fan, so perhaps I will try that. It won't be the first time I worked on a bike myself that was still in warranty. I realize I could be around high voltage, but that is no issue to me, won't be the first time either.
I am leaving for a group ride on an ICE bike in a few minutes, so I won't be back on line until much later in the day.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I would say that fan is a weak point right now as I have seen more than one need to be replaced. But I do not believe the fan is related to the SoC issue you encountered.
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I would say that fan is a weak point right now as I have seen more than one need to be replaced. But I do not believe the fan is related to the SoC issue you encountered.
I don't think it is related either, unless the extra heat while charging had something to do with it. But both issues appeared at the same time or very close to it.
I was surprised there is no indication of an error on the main screen until I go to diagnostics, but both issues were during or right after the J-1772 charging at Cisco Grove.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Getting the Chinese Model OD1238-12HBXC fan out was an easy job. It's a common 12 VDC .95 amp Brushless fan. Easy job to fix myself. And it tests as infinite resistance, even direct on the motor with no wires, so no doubt I found the problem.
Now I just have to get the 4.7" (120 mm) square fan.
This is the exact fan my SS9 uses. (https://www.alliedelec.com/product/orion-knight-electronics-inc-/od1238-12hbxc/70103398/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=USPartsBing%20-%20Orion%20Knight%20Electronics%20Inc&utm_term=od1238-12hbxc&utm_content=Orion%20Knight%20Electronics%20Inc_70103398_BingSA360&gclid=CLu75IGkreoCFVCkfgodljIKGg&gclsrc=ds)
I just now ordered it. I would have ordered a few, but they only had one in stock. With shipping and tax, its real cost is around $40.00
70103398 OD1238-12HBXC $28.970
DC Fan, Square, 12V, 120x120x38mm, 200CFM, 61dBA, 23W, 4300RPM, Wire Leads
-Don- Reno, NV
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I just completed the toughest part of this job. That is removing the fan from the charging cover after it has been removed as one piece. It is riveted on with thick strong rivets that I spent the last 30 minutes drilling out. I got all four of them removed. The four holes from the large rivets are large, will require l washers to put back together with Flathead screws and nuts. Or screws with very large flat short heads. The heads probably cannot be up too high or it could perhaps interfere with closing the seat. The rivet heads were pancake flat, perhaps that was why they were used there.
Anyway, looking at it all, I assume it is this fan we hear coming on during ALL charging, even DC fast CCS Charging. I assume it comes on during a fast charge only because of the way it is temperature controlled. But I do wonder if this fan serves any useful purpose during a DC fast charge. I assume not, or very little as it's mounted right on top of the heatsink of the AC charger.
It doesn't look like it can cool much else and during a DC fast charge, the AC charger isn't being used, so it shouldn't have a need to be cooled.
So I assume I could still ride the bike if I only fast charge. However, I will just wait for the fan to come in as I have many other bikes to ride. But the Energica is my favorite of the ten, at least for the rides that are possible on electric. And I see some interesting improvements on Plugshare on Hwy 50. I should be able to get all the way to Austin, NV these days, with the new CCS chargers on Hwy 50 which is a lot more east than I can get on I-80 with the same bike!
-Don- Reno, NV
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That fan looks like a PC tower fan....
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That it does. Hmmm...it does open up some customization options...RGB fans for the AC charger. ;)
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That fan looks like a PC tower fan....
Yep, that was also my first thought when I first saw the fan. But not all fans have the same specs and such, so I will stick with the same OEM fan since it is easy to replace even if it does crap out again. And I will later order a spare or two when they have them back in stock.
I will take a ride on the bike a bit later today, to be sure all else is okay.
I don't even have to put any of the stuff back on the bike to take it for a ride. I won't be doing any more charging until the new fan comes in. I am sure that the bike is now charged up to 100%. I just want to use up around 20% of the charge to be sure all is okay and then I will let the bike sit until I receive the fan next week.
BTW, I had no idea I had an open fan until I checked the diagnostics. So now I realize we should check for errors there often. I didn't notice any indications on the main screens that there was an error. However, there were the other issues of my SOC being stuck, which I assume was just a one-time computer glitch.
BTW, if it were not for that glitch, I still wouldn't know my fan was defective, which was probably unrelated, unless excessive heat had something to do with it, as all these problems seem to happen while slow AC charging in Cisco Grove, CA.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I have never had my fan turn on during a DC charge. It would be entirely pointless. Is the fan you ordered potted? I would never use a fan that isn't IP67 when it's exposed to the elements on a rainy charge.
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I have never had my fan turn on during a DC charge. It would be entirely pointless. Is the fan you ordered potted? I would never use a fan that isn't IP67 when it's exposed to the elements on a rainy charge.
I am fairly certain I have had my fan come on during a CCS charge, but the next time I DC fast charge, I will post here if it does or doesn't, after the fan is replaced.
I assume the fan I ordered will be exactly like the one I am replacing in every way. The one I am replacing doesn't look a bit water proofed in any way.
Being located under the seat, I doubt it is likely to get wet, unless raining while charging and even then I wouldn't expect it to get all the wet unless a lot of wind as well.
Isn't your bike a different model? Is your fan and AC charger also under the seat?
-Don- Reno, NV
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I would never assume that just because you ordered the model listed that Energica didn't source an IP67 version and the company put the same sticker on. Can you see if the fan you pulled out is potted?
edit- and water WILL find a way if the electronics are exposed. Being under the seat doesn't guarantee anything.
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I would never assume that just because you ordered the model listed that Energica didn't source an IP67 version and the company put the same sticker on. Can you see if the fan you pulled out is potted?
edit- and water WILL find a way if the electronics are exposed. Being under the seat doesn't guarantee anything.
The fan I removed doesn't look a bit waterproofed in any way at all.
Besides the fact, I almost never ride in the rain. However, come to think about it, I was on the freeway about a week before this happened when I was poured on while on the bike for around 15 minutes of very heavy rain. Perhaps it could be related. But that was with the fan the bike came with.
That was one of those bright sunny very hot early summer days in Reno where the sky fills with rain clouds in about five minutes and pours rain to cool me and everything else off. It felt good to cool off, but the rain was hard enough to be a bit dangerous to be stuck on a freeway on a motorcycle.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I just rode up to my other house 20 miles north of Reno. The bike is now acting perfectly normal in every way (other than no fan).
I figure the fan issue is really no issue at all. I can normally fast charge and I can also charge at home using 120 VAC so I don't create all that much heat. I also have portable fans I can use. I can probably even normally charge at 240 VAC with the help of the portable fan, but to be safe, I will use 120 VAC charging at home, so I will only be operating the AC charger at half capacity. And will still use the portable fan.
So I will still be riding the bike. In fact, I will ride it back to Auburn tomorrow.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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Sorry I missed this thread until just now.
Good work on the diagnostic and repair of the bike. Feel free to reach out to me via email if these sorts of issues come up.
Fan use - Fan will only come on during AC charging as it's intended purpose is to cool the AC to DC unit in the tail section. It will spin for a second or two on startup as a self test. The bike knows how much current that specific circuit should pull when you see the open circuit fault that is a notification that it is pulling more or less than the specified range.
AC charging without the fan is fine however, please use the key on function to set the max charging current to ~4 amps. This will limit the charge rate to ~1kWh, the charge unit under the seat can use it's heat sink to dissipate the heat generated by that lower charge rate without needing the fan. The charge unit has built in protection that will reduce the charge rate to maintain that temp.
Rivets - The large faced rivets are there to distribute the load over a larger surface. Smaller rivets can pull through the mounting holes of the fan or the shroud it's mounted to. Normal procedure for a fan failure is to replace the shroud fan combo as one unit.
SOC error - I have not seen the bottom information of the dash freeze like you mentioned. It appears that a key off and on cycle and a charge has corrected this issue. To add an extra tool to your arsenal you can try to reset the VCU; with the bike on press and hold the center mode button and the set button on the back of the left control. Hold these till the screen goes black and the bike will restart. Not something that I would suggest doing regularly but I have seen a restart clear up strange behavior previously. Please let us or the dealer know if you encounter this problem again.
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I just went to a hardware store and purchased this USB fan. (https://www.amazon.com/OPOLAR-F401-Personal-Operation-Compatibility/dp/B00WM7TRTY/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2LVBRYH1RJGEF&dchild=1&keywords=homepointe+fan&qid=1593728950&s=electronics&sprefix=Homepointe+%2Celectronics%2C227&sr=1-3)It only draws 5 watts, so it's about 1 amp at 5VDC. I am now charging at 240 VAC with the help of this fan. I am charging at the full 3 KW. I am not sure of the capacity of the USB outlet on the Esse Esse 9, but it is working fine with this fan, so far.
The USB port on the SS9 comes on automatically while charging. I checked to see how warm the heatsink on the AC charger is getting, and it is staying reasonably cool after 20 minutes of 240 VAC operation and the bike is still charging at 3.0 KW.
The brackets this portable fan comes with helps position it right on the heat sink. The USB cable is the exact length needed. I really lucked out on guessing this fan would work.
If anybody wants a small portable backup fan in case the stock one craps out, I recommend the one above. Mine has the name "Homepointe" on it, but it appears to be the exact same "4 inch personal fan" (says on my box) as in the Amazon link under a different brand name.
It seems to be the perfect portable backup fan for this bike. For now, I will carry it with me so I can charge the bike anywhere with any AC voltage available, such as J1772 or Tesla (I carry all the stuff with the bike so I can charge from 120 VAC as well as 240 VAC, including Tesla destination chargers). Some of my cables are very modified to be small enough to all fit in one side bag.
I also recommend checking for errors under diagnostics often. I didn't know I had an open fan until I did check, after the unrelated problems with the computer glitch.
BTW, my Tesla has a way for me to reboot the screen for common glitches. Is there a way to do the same on the Energica?
The other question I have is when the bike is stuck at a high SOC and the BMS believes the reading and so charging stops at 30% or so charged, saying 100%, what is the best way to deal with it?
I can tell you what fixed in in my case and that was turning the bike back on about an hour later when the 100% charge then went to 40% or whatever it was, so it would then charge again. Turning the bike off for only a minute or so did nothing useful.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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Sorry I missed this thread until just now.
Good work on the diagnostic and repair of the bike. Feel free to reach out to me via email if these sorts of issues come up.
Fan use - Fan will only come on during AC charging as it's intended purpose is to cool the AC to DC unit in the tail section. It will spin for a second or two on startup as a self test. The bike knows how much current that specific circuit should pull when you see the open circuit fault that is a notification that it is pulling more or less than the specified range.
AC charging without the fan is fine however, please use the key on function to set the max charging current to ~4 amps. This will limit the charge rate to ~1kWh, the charge unit under the seat can use it's heat sink to dissipate the heat generated by that lower charge rate without needing the fan. The charge unit has built in protection that will reduce the charge rate to maintain that temp.
Rivets - The large faced rivets are there to distribute the load over a larger surface. Smaller rivets can pull through the mounting holes of the fan or the shroud it's mounted to. Normal procedure for a fan failure is to replace the shroud fan combo as one unit.
SOC error - I have not seen the bottom information of the dash freeze like you mentioned. It appears that a key off and on cycle and a charge has corrected this issue. To add an extra tool to your arsenal you can try to reset the VCU; with the bike on press and hold the center mode button and the set button on the back of the left control. Hold these till the screen goes black and the bike will restart. Not something that I would suggest doing regularly but I have seen a restart clear up strange behavior previously. Please let us or the dealer know if you encounter this problem again.
We were typing our last messages at the same time, so I may have a question or two that you already answered, such as how to do a reboot.
I was hoping you would jump in this thread!
I am now charging at a full 3.0 KW with my portable fan. I figure as long as I can keep my hand on the heat sink for more than a half minute without my hand getting too hot, it is cool enough. I hope you agree with that.
BTW, without the fan at all, would you say the 120 VAC charge (~1.5 KW) is still a bit high? Just curious. TBH, I totally forgot I could lower the charge rate from the menus. I have never used it, so I never thought about it.
I did the VCU reset, just to see it work and after that weird bug, I figure it wouldn't be a bad idea to make sure I know how to do the reboot. All came back up normally.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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I received and installed my new fan. The new one had no connector, so I removed the old one by cutting the leads and putting it on the new fan. Soldered and with heat shrink tubing.
Then I found all the necessary screws, nuts, washers and lock-tight in my garage and put it all back together.
Other than the lack of a connector, the new fan is 100% identical to the older fan in every way.
Now all is fine. The code P1040 is now replaced with "Status OK" in diagnostics.
I have the bike charging right now with 240 VAC so the fan would come on. I turned the fan down to 80%, in case that will help the new fan last a bit longer. It sounds fast enough to me at 80%.
The new fan is very quiet, so was the old one until I put a couple of thousand miles on my SS9 and then it started to make some noise and then crapped out a couple of AC charges later.
Lately, the bike has been behaving normally. I rode it back from Auburn, CA today.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Good to hear you got it solved, I will keep this information if I ever need it, I know what to do and what to buy ;)
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I absolutely do not recommend soldering in a vibration environment. Please crimp.
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I absolutely do not recommend soldering in a vibration environment. Please crimp.
I expect this solder job to outlive me. It's just wires. Very thin wires, not the type I would even consider crimping.
And since it's not a cold solder joint it should hold almost forever. Soldering on PC boards often comes loose in motor vehicles, yet it is still very commonly done.
And BTW, I sure have seen a lot of crimps break loose in motor vehicles. I don't ever recall seeing two wires soldered together breaking.
I normally try to avoid crimping anything. I usually use European Connectors (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019BI2F3G?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1)and screw the wires down. But these were too thin for even that.
BMW used such in my 1971 R75/5. New from the factory. I have yet to see one fail and they are very easy to deal with for troubleshooting or changes and such.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I build bikes, now as a hobby, soldering such wires will give no problem at all. I solder all the wires for more then 30 years now and never had a problem of them
breaking. Now those European connecters as you call them are "lusterklemmetjes" and that is not done on a motorcyle or car. They are for household electricity
like a chandelier and stuff, we already get chills that we find that in a car or motorcycle, it is usually a sign that an amateur has been working on it. So please keep
on soldering your stuff and trow those lusterklemmetjes away ;).
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Now those European connecters as you call them are "lusterklemmetjes" and that is not done on a motorcyle or car.
The the BMW factory didn't know that back in 1971!
That's when I started using them, and they are my favorite way to put wires together in most cases. They come in different sizes and it only takes screwdriver and it is easy to measure voltages on them and stuff like that.
But to each their own.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Indeed everyone does what they think is good and easy to do but keep in mind that they are not water resistant at all and oxidize easily.
That is also the reason that you will never find it in a newer bike or car installed from the manufacturer, and the plus points you quote are
indeed so, easy to assemble-reasemble and measure.
I myself prefer soldering with a glued heat shrink tubing if it is a permanent connection, otherwise I use waterproof connectors like these.
(https://www.mupload.nl/img/ksrewfk2.jpg)
Take care and stay healty.
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Indeed everyone does what they think is good and easy to do but keep in mind that they are not water resistant at all and oxidize easily.
And are extremely easy to replace if/when any such problems are noticed.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I am fairly certain I have had my fan come on during a CCS charge, but the next time I DC fast charge, I will post here if it does or doesn't, after the fan is replaced.
I almost forgot to post here about that.
The bike's fan does NOT come on during a CCS charge. I think I was remembering hearing the fan that is inside the CCS charge station!
Anyway, I have ridden & charged the bike countless times since the fan and the other issues. All has been perfect lately, no issues at all.
And the new fan works fine with L1 and L2, and makes less noise than the old fan did before it crapped out.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I absolutely do not recommend soldering in a vibration environment. Please crimp.
This made me think of your old message here. (https://youtu.be/k4WmszEnvDc?t=405)
-Don- Auburn, CA
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaa that guy is soldering nooooooooo
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaa that guy is soldering nooooooooo
That was exactly how I did my fan connection. I expect it to last at least as long as the rest of the bike.
-Don- Auburn, CA