ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: heroto on May 06, 2020, 12:24:43 AM
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Energica has competition. Why did you chose their product over the competition?
Thanks.
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Fast charging. I had reached the upper limits on my Zero SR (1 hour full charge) and the bike had thermal limitations. If I wanted to truly ride all day, stopping to charge of course, I had to limit myself to 60mph or the batteries would reach thermal limit and shut down. The Energica SS9 I bought does not have this problem. It charges in under 30 minutes and I can ride at 75 from station to station. All. Day. Long.
It's quite a bit more powerful but that's just a side perk.
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At the time I was shopping for an electric motorcycle, Zero and Energica were the only options. Neither HD's LiveWire nor Lightning's Strike were available for test rides.
After riding the Zero and Energica models my choices boiled down to the Zero SR/F and Energica EsseEsse9.
The DC fast charging and "feel" of the Energica on the road swung my decision to them instead of Zero. As a matter of fact, I like my EsseEsse9 so much I ordered a Ribelle to go along with it and sold my Triumph Trophy to make room for it since I only have room for 2 bikes in my garage.
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Fast charging. I have done multi-day trips on both my Zero SR and my Energica Eva 107. Would never do another road trip with the SR and have since gotten rid of it. Energica has faster L2 charging than the Livewire. Lightning has no dealers on the east coast and not willing to fly to the west coast, get a hotel and rental car just to test ride a Lightning. If Lightning really wanted to sell bikes they would have dealers.
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I'd be buying the Energica over the SR/F except for the weight... I just can't heft the thing about or pick it up if it falls over. So I'm stuck waiting for one to get lighter or the other to get DCFC... whichever comes soonest.
Cas :)
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Choose Energica for build quality and riding feel (+ equipment/range/performance vs SRF, I owned a Zero S before). Power delivery (I quickly felt the power cut off on the SRF during my test drive, although SOC was > 60%). Larger battery.... And potential reliabity. Although we don't have official statistics, you will see that the Zero part of this forum is full of posts about SRF having issues in the wet with long repair time,... Seems they still need to iron out some reliability issues. This is important for me because I usually ride in all weather.
So far there is very little report of failure on the Energicas (OK obviously the user base is smaller). The ones reported typically highlight strong repair support...
Also here in Belgium the price of a premium SRF with extra charger is barely 1000 Euro below the Energica Eva Ribelle (so basically more expensive than the SS9+!). For me for this very similar price then there is no arguing: indeed in terms of build quality, equipment, overall performance, charging capability, range...the Eva is above.
Weight maybe is a bit higher but I am quite tall and I don't see where really this will be a problem. The SRF is not exactly super light. In contrast to the S/DS range, which are indeed very light and might be a better choice if weight is a main concern.
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I'd be buying the Energica over the SR/F except for the weight... I just can't heft the thing about or pick it up if it falls over. So I'm stuck waiting for one to get lighter or the other to get DCFC... whichever comes soonest.
Cas :)
According to Energica, the 2020 SS9 with the big battery is lighter than the prior versions with the smaller battery, 570 lbs.
SR/F weighs 500 lbs. So that difference is smaller now.
Please keep this thread on focus with opinions from actual buyers. Thanks
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I'd be buying the Energica over the SR/F except for the weight... I just can't heft the thing about or pick it up if it falls over. So I'm stuck waiting for one to get lighter or the other to get DCFC... whichever comes soonest.
Cas :)
According to Energica, the 2020 SS9 with the big battery is lighter than the prior versions with the smaller battery, 570 lbs.
SR/F weighs 500 lbs. So that difference is smaller now.
Indeed, from my point of view if weight is a concerns, then => Look at S/DS (or FX!) line.
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Energica has competition. Why did you chose their product over the competition?
Thanks.
The reverse as well as the choice of charging. And the performance. And the comfort. There are many CCS charge stations between my house here in Reno and my house in Auburn, CA (99 miles of hills). There is also a lot of J1772 stations I can use.
I modified a granny cable so it is small. I also bring a Tesla Tap. I can charge from just about anywhere from a 120 or 240 VAC outlet or a Tesla Destination charger as well as J-1772 and CCS. And all the stuff fits in one side bag.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I'd be buying the Energica over the SR/F except for the weight... I just can't heft the thing about or pick it up if it falls over. So I'm stuck waiting for one to get lighter or the other to get DCFC... whichever comes soonest.
Cas :)
I cannot pick up my Zero SR when it falls over, see here. (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=9964.0)
The Energica, even though heavier, should be easier to pick up if it falls over. This is because I don't think it will fall as flat as the Zeros. When picking up a bike, there is a lot more to it than weight. I expect my heaviest bike, my 1,000 lbs Harley, would NOT be that difficult to get back up. My Zero was impossible to get back up without some type of help, yet it is one of my lighter bikes.
But you can add crash bars on Zeros, which I assume will help in getting the bike back up, as then it should not fall as flat. When the handle bar touches the ground, you can expect it will be difficult to get back up.
-Don- Reno, NV
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But you can add crash bars on Zeros, which I assume will help in getting the bike back up, as then it should not fall as flat. When the handle bar touches the ground, you can expect it will be difficult to get back up.
I have witnessed crash bars folding on a fallen Zero.
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I have witnessed crash bars folding on a fallen Zero.
The ones Zero sells? Sounds like they need to be redesigned.
-Don-
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I had no experience with motorcycles so I compare the physical Parameter.
Since the data capacity of the battery and charging speed are greater than with Zero, so I order an Energica Esseesse9+. A Harley is just too expensive and the data was no better. Another machine was not available / I did not find it.
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I had no experience with motorcycles so I compare the physical Parameter.
Since the data capacity of the battery and charging speed are greater than with Zero, so I order an Energica Esseesse9+. A Harley is just too expensive and the data was no better. Another machine was not available / I did not find it.
If I were to buy a new electric bike, I would be deciding between the Zero SR/S Premium and the Energica SS9+ and Ribelle.
The above Zero charges twice as fast (6.x KW) on J1772 than any model of Energica and has a centerstand and frame mounted fairing. And great luggage selections.
But the Eneriga has very fast CCS charging (above 25 KW on DC but only 3.x KW on J1772). But the Energica has a reverse. AFAIK, no way to add a centerstand. And better slower speed range (not so sure about higher speeds).
And more luggage choices on the Zero SR/S. They have a very nice one all fixed up here in Reno at Eurocycles, with all the best luggage stuff. If I didn't already own ten bikes, I would have bought it.
I never trade any in. I keep all my vehicles until they are not worth repairing.
The two electric bikes I would NOT consider are the Zero SR/F and the HD livewire.
But anyway, that is me, not you. There are many models and choices for good reasons.
-Don- Reno, NV
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1º owner feedback regarding reliability, quality and Energica post sale support.
2º capable of DC fast charging
3º Could handle a "beating" (for example a trip, with multiple consecutive charges in a highway run) without having overheat issues.
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The two electric bikes I would NOT consider are the Zero SR/F and the HD livewire.
-Don- Reno, NV
Hey Don,
Just curious: have you ridden a Livewire?
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Didn't Don say it was the posture of either that was the limiting factor?
-Crissa
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Thanks, I missed that.
The LW was super smooth, handled great, and had much better suspension than the SR/F but it does stretch you out.
Edit: Stretch out your upper body.
The SS9, Zeroes, and the LW have high pegs. Not a fan.
(Good point below MVetter)
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Stretch you out? The LiveWire is cramped as hell from the waist down.
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Hey Don,
Just curious: have you ridden a Livewire?
Yes I have, see here. (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=9788.0)
-Don- Reno, NV
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The SS9, Zeroes, and the LW have high pegs. Not a fan.
There's more to it than only the peg height. Also, the horizontal position.
I have no problem with the Zeros except the SR/F. The SR/S is MUCH better. I also have no such issue with the SS9. But I do with the LW.
One ride doesn't fit all. YMMV.
-Don- Reno, NV
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One ride doesn't fit all.
This is so true.
Works for almost anything, it's just especially true of bikes. You have to wear your bike, basically.
-Crissa
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Always wondered why they don't put just a tiny bit of R&D into making bikes much more adjustable. It must cost millions in lost sales to have bikes that don't fit people.
Cas :)
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Always wondered why they don't put just a tiny bit of R&D into making bikes much more adjustable. It must cost millions in lost sales to have bikes that don't fit people.
Cas :)
it is all about money. As an example, BMW used to have two or three different positions on the chassis where the stock seat could be located so as to lower or raise the seat height slightly and move it a bit fore and aft. Now they will sell you an accessory factory low seat, a stock seat, a high seat, a Rally seat and a comfort seat. No one really knows why they don't just put the comfort seat on all their bikes to begin with. ::) But it probably has something to do with money. ;)
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Top tip - this works:
Dealer: So how was the bike?
Me: Great, I'd buy it today except the seat is about an inch too tall for me, so sadly I'm just going to have to look elsewhere
Dealer: There's an optional accessory seat for £220 that lowers the seat height by two inches...
Me: Oh goodness no, I wouldn't pay extra for you to just sell the same bike to me in a form I can actually ride
Dealer (seeing a £14,000 sale slip between his fingers for the sake of a £50 profit on an accessory part): ...
See also: Zero SR/F accessory charging cable at £450.
Cas :)
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Just put my order in for the Eva Ribelle, so I can't comment on the wisdom of my decision yet.
However, I was considering the SR/F vs the Eva Ribelle and it boiled down to:
- Energy density for the weight -- yes they are both heavy, but after riding them, the weight goes away. Low speed maneuvers are going to be a challenge that I'm confident I can learn to overcome. We've sent better men to the moon, I can learn to move a heavy bike around.
- Charging speed + range combination is in a sweet spot.
- Build quality. I don't think Zeros are bad, and the SR/F is a good looking bike, but for these premium prices, I don't want a caveat I have to look past like component or fitment issues.
- Limp home behavior. Being able to ride to the last drop is very appealing. I am probably not going on any long trips any time soon, I just want to have a full charge of riding without babying it home.
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Congratulations on your order!
I'm also waiting on my Ribelle to arrive (my second Energica...I have last year's 13kw EsseEsse9 as well).
All of the points you raise factored into my decision to go with Energica as well.
Let us know how you like it once you get your bike.
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Congratulations on your order!
I'm also waiting on my Ribelle to arrive (my second Energica...I have last year's 13kw EsseEsse9 as well).
All of the points you raise factored into my decision to go with Energica as well.
Which accessories are available for the Ribelle?
-Don- Reno, NV
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Congrats, osbjmg!
I'm surprised a kitted out SR/F costs more than a new Ribelle since the only feature lacking in Energica's model is the 6kW on-board charger. I guess this Energica vs Zero issue all boils down to dealership support and DCFC availability in local areas.
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Which accessories are available for the Ribelle?
-Don- Reno, NV
Quite a few. The options I ordered for mine include:
- windscreen
- side bags with red logo plate...same side cases as the EsseEsse9
- keyless ignition
- heated grips
- red ergal bolt kit
Other options that I can remember but didn't order include:
- Ohlins suspension front & rear
- lighter wheels
- carbon fiber fenders and body work
- different colored ergal bolt kits
- different color side case plates
- branded bike cover
- rear wheel stand and bobbins
- front wheel stand
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Well I guess it's my turn to weigh in. Last summer I was in Austin Texas where the dealer is that sells both zero and Energica., I was very intrigued with the electric bikes since I also I am a tesla owner and investor. With the Tesla experience I felt that I knew what I needed to know about charging and traveling under the charging scenarios. My bikes at that time included an MV Augusta, a Aprilia Tuano, a multi-Strada, and a Motus. You've probably noticed most of them are Italian, and you can tell I like Italian things given my screen name because I race challenge cars. The funny thing was I went to test a zero and rode it thought it was kind of fun but then looked over and saw a brand new Motus sitting on the showroom and rode it and bought it on the spot, so much for the search for an electric bike. Oddly I was uncomfortable with the fact that my girth made riding the Eva uncomfortable and I decided to start working out and lose some weight with a goal of 60 pounds in a year. Around New Year's I saw a used Eva with 800 miles in fully decked out appear at a dealer in Austin. I drove up there on New Year's Eve and test drove the bike and having lost about 30 pounds felt very comfortable on it and was just very blown away. We made a deal and I brought it home that day and it has since completely replaced my other bikes when I come out the garage and pick what I'm going to ride for that day. I'm planning to keep this one for about a year and then upgrade to a Ribelle because to ride out to my home in the country is about 65 miles and I'd like to be able to do it without having to stop and charge. With the other Italian bikes to compare it to I am very delighted with the build quality and the absolute smooth speed which is like driving a Tesla. I feel very comfortable seated and I've had no mechanical issues with it in the 3000 miles that I've put on. Also I sent a text to their California headquarters and got a callback from the US president and later the service manager to welcome me to the family and answer all my questions. It's a little bit like being with Ferrari and being part of the family once you're in. I did test drive a LiveWire before I bought this one and I liked everything about it the build quality and the seating position were great but but the LiveWire had significant software issues that affected my ride and a couple of the other guys of the group of eight that we're all test riding with me, I concluded that they weren't ready for prime time and while I may own one in the future it will have to have a bigger battery and I'll have to feel comfortable that the software problems are shorted out. As far as zeros go I have no interest t now! For the time being I just trailer the Eva out to the country and put in a level two charger in the barn and now I'm happy as a clam out here with it.
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I had my eye on the Zero partly because I have a dealer of this brand near me, I had done a test drive with the SR/F back in February and was convinced to purchase it. Then there was the corona problem and all the dealers were closed and I had a lot of time to surf the internet. I started reading more and more about Energica and then went to see the models on YT and was immediately sold on the appearance alone. Then I delved further into the technical aspect with the cooling and fast charging, I had already forgotten Zero :) . My first choice was the Ego but that does not allow my physical condition anymore so for me the logical choice was the Ribelle because I still have the possibility to adjust the handlebar if this proves necessary and looks slightly sportier than the SS9. The Ribelle has now been ordered and I am waiting for it to be delivered.
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Which accessories are available for the Ribelle?
-Don- Reno, NV
Quite a few. The options I ordered for mine include:
- windscreen
- side bags with red logo plate...same side cases as the EsseEsse9
- keyless ignition
- heated grips
- red ergal bolt kit
Other options that I can remember but didn't order include:
- Ohlins suspension front & rear
- lighter wheels
- carbon fiber fenders and body work
- different colored ergal bolt kits
- different color side case plates
- branded bike cover
- rear wheel stand and bobbins
- front wheel stand
Just out of curiosity, what benefits does keyless offer? I mean, it's nice not having to put the key in the ignition - but if you're within in range isn't it a slight concern someone might jump on it and ride away? Not sure what the range is on the keyless.
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On my Honda there's a button on the fob to disable the key, so if you're, say, sipping espresso in your flip-flops at a table on the Riviera somewhere, some scrote can't just run up to your nearby scoot and make off with it.
There are no real benefits to it to be honest, it's just another widget to go wrong.
Cas :)
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On my Honda there's a button on the fob to disable the key, so if you're, say, sipping espresso in your flip-flops at a table on the Riviera somewhere, some scrote can't just run up to your nearby scoot and make off with it.
There are no real benefits to it to be honest, it's just another widget to go wrong.
Cas :)
I disagree. I have keyless on my BMW RS and I thought it wouldn't be of much use. However, I have a tendency of leaving my key in my ignition when I leave my bike. With the keyless fob never leaving my pocket, I no longer have to worry about that, at least on that motorcycle.
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There are no real benefits to it to be honest, it's just another widget to go wrong.
My Harley has it, and I love it. Just get off the bike and a few feet away it cannot be started until you get back on.
However, I did have one problem with mine, caused by a weak battery in the FOB. I could NOT start the bike with the FOB in my pocket and it also would NOT let me enter my six digit PIN number (which should mean I can start the bike without the FOB).
So what I did is put the FOB far from the bike (several yards) and then it asked for my PIN. I put in the pin, picked back up my FOB, rode home and then changed the FOB battery and now all is fine.
While it could be "another widget to go wrong" IMO, it's safer than a key immobilizer because no key or FOB is needed after it is set up with your own six digit pin.
I wish all my bikes had a FOB that worked like my Harley FOB.
BTW, the FOB was about the only thing I liked about the Harley LW.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I do rather like it myself - my X-Adv is keyless - but at the end of the day it's another battery that will one day conk out at the most inconvenient moment, or a transponder that will break 200 miles from home in the pissing rain. Nice ... while it works. Not sure it's really added much useful to the experience of motorcycling.
Cas :)
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On my BMW you get a warning wrench on the bike's instrument display a few months before the battery in the FOB give up. I uses a standard battery that can be purchase just about anywhere.
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I do rather like it myself - my X-Adv is keyless - but at the end of the day it's another battery that will one day conk out at the most inconvenient moment, or a transponder that will break 200 miles from home in the pissing rain. Nice ... while it works. Not sure it's really added much useful to the experience of motorcycling.
Cas :)
But if the FOB thingy craps out, can you use another way to start, such as the 6 digit pin number that my Harley has?
-Don- Reno, NV
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There is some crazy code entry thing involving phoning Mrs. P. up and asking her to dig up the user manual. I hope to never need it.
Cas :)
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There is some crazy code entry thing involving phoning Mrs. P. up and asking her to dig up the user manual. I hope to never need it.
Cas :)
That's probably that PIN code. You want to set that up. I did mine on the day I got my Harley. And then made sure it worked without a FOB nearby. That means I don't have to worry about the FOB to ride, it will just be a minor inconvenience to put in the code to start the bike after every time I stop the engine if the FOB is lost or craps out or whatever.
MRS. P might not be home or perhaps not be able to find the manual or whatever, when needed the most.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I now play the ant fucker ;) , I own 6 Harley's and also build them, the pincode is 5 not 6 digits. Also you can force the pincode to show or use with the fob in your pocket, the battery must not be dead to use the code. Furthermore, I'd rather have a key than the fob, you must have both with you, but 4 of my 6 own Harley's have the fob because they are recent models and you can not choose as with the Energica. That was all I wanted to say :)
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Just out of curiosity, what benefits does keyless offer? I mean, it's nice not having to put the key in the ignition - but if you're within in range isn't it a slight concern someone might jump on it and ride away? Not sure what the range is on the keyless.
The only real benefit is convenience...when it works. I’ve had keyless ignition on a couple of my previous bikes, a Ducati Diavel and a Victory Cross Country Tour.
On the Ducati, sometimes the bike wouldn’t recognize the fob and left me fiddling with the remote and positioning a few times for about 5-10 minutes. I chalked it up to interference of some kind since it always happened at gas stations. The Victory was flawless the entire time.
Since I commute daily on my bikes as well as occasional weekend rides, I just really like the convenience of not fiddling with a key, other than that, like I said no real benefit IMHO.
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I own 6 Harley's and also build them, the pincode is 5 not 6 digits.
I cannot speak for other Harleys, but mine (listed below) is six digits.
Also you can force the pincode to show or use with the fob in your pocket,
How is that done?
-Don- Reno, NV
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Energica keyless system uses a proximity keyfob to send a signal to a receiver connected to the ignition. When the ignition button is pressed the receiver looks for a valid key fob in it's proximity. If it finds one the bike will turn on and be able to drive.
If the battery runs down on the key fob it will still function but the transmission range will be reduced. Holding the fob (or one of the other standard keys) a few mm away from the receiver will allow the bike to turn on. Receiver location is listed in the owner's manual as it varies depending on the bike model.
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Post removed ;)
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Why have I chosen Energica? Because I care about the number of digits in an HD security code.
Or maybe not.
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Hahhaha yes, a bit of topic here
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I deleted this off-topic post ;).
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Why did I choose Energica?
Range and performance.
I recently did a rally and hit a 15 mph headwind when returning on my Zero SR with charge tank (6kW level 2). Made it to a ChargePoint location with 4 chargers. None would interface. Tech support couldn’t get it to work either. Had to get towed 70 miles. Never again! Sold the Zero. Energica Ego+ arrives August 1. The Zero was and is a great commuter bike, but I live too far from the fun twisty roads.