ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Richard230 on April 15, 2020, 08:01:38 PM
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In spite of the OPEC production cutback agreement announced this week, the price of crude oil has dropped below $20 a barrel today. The price of gasoline in California at most locations is in the mid to upper $2 a gallon range and I am sure it is much lower in other states.
So how are your electrical rates doing? I am not seeing any decrease in my rates (23 cents per KWH), in fact they are continuing to increase. :( This is certainly not going to help electric motorcycle sales, especially when piled on top of all of the other stuff going on right now. I keep wondering how long small motorcycle shops can stay in business in view of the way the economy is going and the fact that most are considered a "nonessential business" and have been ordered to close? (Except for the shops that are lucky to have a contract to maintain and service police vehicles.) I am not terribly hopeful. :( From what I hear all new motorcycles from the major brands are stuck somewhere in the transportation pipeline or at factories that have been closed. ???
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Well, all the shops in Santa Cruz are service shops primarily, so as long as they have bikes to repair they can stay in business.
But we already lost all our sales shops.
-Crissa
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It's amazing, isn't it? There are a few stations in KY, OK, OH selling gas for less than $1.50/gallon. Our consumption has dropped to 1968 levels (-44%). Storage is full nationwide so even the OPEC production cuts have done nothing!
In California, tax per gallon is now so high relative to the actual gas that prices are double some other states. We are so ripped off.
Source: https://www.nkytribune.com/2020/04/aaa-gas-prices-continue-to-go-down-and-kentuckys-are-fourth-lowest-in-country-low-demand/
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It's amazing, isn't it? There are a few stations in KY, OK, OH selling gas for less than $1.50/gallon. Our consumption has dropped to 1968 levels (-44%). Storage is full nationwide so even the OPEC production cuts have done nothing!
In California, tax per gallon is now so high relative to the actual gas that prices are double some other states. We are so ripped off.
Source: https://www.nkytribune.com/2020/04/aaa-gas-prices-continue-to-go-down-and-kentuckys-are-fourth-lowest-in-country-low-demand/
Just wait until you get your EV's California state registration bill from the DMV this year. :(
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Most of California's price is not tax, Curt.
The oil producers just don't like us.
-Crissa
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I wonder if I should buy some containers for gas and a bunch of Sta-Bil. I'll have to do the math to see how that works out to pre-Covid prices. At current prices, I could splurge and drive down to the docks for the non-ethanol stuff.
It's amazing, isn't it? There are a few stations in KY, OK, OH selling gas for less than $1.50/gallon.
That would be me. Ohio.
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Most of California's price is not tax, Curt.
The oil producers just don't like us.
You may be right. (Or diametrically wrong, the oil producers LOVE us for paying whatever!) PA has roughly the same gas tax as CA around $0.50/gallon. We just increased our tax and passed them, but their gas is still $1.00/gal cheaper. We have the summer formulation issue. Newsom is trying to launch an investigation into why we're being screwed. "'There is no identifiable evidence to justify these premium prices,' Newsom wrote in a letter to Attorney General Xavier Becerra."
Oh well, not that I care. Between my e-bike, e-car and e-scooter I visit a gas station only a few times a year (still have two ICE bikes and a truck).
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I guess it should mean I should at least fill my car. It's been sitting around ^-^
-Crissa
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In spite of the OPEC production cutback agreement announced this week, the price of crude oil has dropped below $20 a barrel today. The price of gasoline in California at most locations is in the mid to upper $2 a gallon range and I am sure it is much lower in other states.
So how are your electrical rates doing? I am not seeing any decrease in my rates (23 cents per KWH), in fact they are continuing to increase. :( This is certainly not going to help electric motorcycle sales, especially when piled on top of all of the other stuff going on right now. I keep wondering how long small motorcycle shops can stay in business in view of the way the economy is going and the fact that most are considered a "nonessential business" and have been ordered to close? (Except for the shops that are lucky to have a contract to maintain and service police vehicles.) I am not terribly hopeful. :( From what I hear all new motorcycles from the major brands are stuck somewhere in the transportation pipeline or at factories that have been closed. ???
Motorcycle shops are open. I went to two of them today and both were business as usual-- almost.
I took my SR front wheel to Elk Grove Power Sports to get a new front tire (10,000 miles on it--rear tire still okay at 10k miles). On the way back, I stopped off at Rocklin Harley to buy some oil and other stuff for my Road Glide.
However, at Elk Grove Power Sports the showroom is now by appointment only. But they are open for parts and labor as normal. And they are as busy as normal. Motorcycle shops are considered automotive and are allowed to be open in CA.
BTW, Rocklin H-D has so far, sold four Livewires.
I also had my RV in the shop last week for a wheel alignment.
Gas prices in some parts of NV are now well below $2.00 a gallon (I was told via e-mail from my riding buddies in Reno).
Electricity here in Auburn is also expensive. But EV's can get half rate after midnight. I assume there also.
In Reno, electricity is cheap. And the price is easy to remember. 11.7 cents per KWH. Easy to remember because my Energica battery is 11.7 KWH nominal.
BTW, electric still has a big advantage. Cannot pick up the bug when charging at home unlike touching the gas pump handles that countless people handle every day. I took my Tesla to pick up my wheel from EGPS.
BTW, anybody here have Zero tires changed (on rim) at a NON-Zero shop? Is it safe to do such? I know the rims on Zeros are a weird size.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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This is certainly not going to help electric motorcycle sales,
I forgot to mention that trying to save money on gasoline is a poor excuse to go electric anyway. Small gas bikes are a lot cheaper than electric and that can buy a lot of gasoline.
Also, it costs more to use CCS charging (in most cases) than gasoline prices even when the gas price is high. If I want to be cheap, I will ride my TTSE between here and Reno as it usually gets more than 50 MPG (and I have seen as high as 61 MPG with it). It costs more for the one stop I need to recharge on my Energica.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I changed the tires on my Zero by myself at home without any problem. :) Once you get the wheels off it is just like changing the tires on any other motorcycle. Nothing weird that I could see.
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I changed the tires on my Zero by myself at home without any problem. :) Once you get the wheels off it is just like changing the tires on any other motorcycle. Nothing weird that I could see.
Same here, do my own on a basic No-Mar changer. BTW - I spooned on a set of RS10's sooooo sweet!
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There's even a selection in stock at Cycle Gear, so I assume they're just tires ^-^
Yeah, because of the shelter order, I'm using my car like only once every couple weeks to get soda and canned goods from Costco. The bike does everything else; all the fresh food and takeout and mail stops.
The bike is definitely essential! And at the 510mpg-e I get on errands... Electricity would have to cost 97ยข a KWh to catch even $2 a gal gas!
-Crissa
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I changed the tires on my Zero by myself at home without any problem. :) Once you get the wheels off it is just like changing the tires on any other motorcycle. Nothing weird that I could see.
What tools did you use? I gave up on taking tires off rims years ago when the rubber became much tougher with the tubeless tires.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I changed the tires on my Zero by myself at home without any problem. :) Once you get the wheels off it is just like changing the tires on any other motorcycle. Nothing weird that I could see.
What tools did you use? I gave up on taking tires off rims years ago when the rubber became much tougher with the tubeless tires.
-Don- Auburn, CA
I change tires on some cardboard on my garage floor on my hands and knees, using hand tools. But you will need a bead breaker and a wheel balancer and at least three large tire irons, along with some tire changing lube (or soapy water) and some stick-on wheel weights. You can usually get all of this stuff at your local auto accessory store - off of Amazon, for sure. Of course, you can spring for a $$$ No-Mar tire changer and life will be a lot easier. ;)
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I change tires on some cardboard on my garage floor on my hands and knees, using hand tools. But you will need a bead breaker and a wheel balancer and at least three large tire irons, along with some tire changing lube (or soapy water) and some stick-on wheel weights. You can usually get all of this stuff at your local auto accessory store - off of Amazon, for sure. Of course, you can spring for a $$$ No-Mar tire changer and life will be a lot easier. ;)
On my Suzuki DR200SE, which is a tubed tire and rim, I have removed the tire several times in the past. But a couple of years ago, I could NOT get the tire off the rim and took it to the shop. The big difference was the last tire was unbelievably hard and I could not get it removed with my three large tire irons. I then decided to just let the shops do all my tires from then on. But if I were going to start doing it myself again, I certainly would go with the No-Mar.
I have yet to even try to remove a tire from a tubeless rim.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I just heard on the CBS radio financial news that oil prices have dropped to a negative $34 a barrel today. I sure don't have a clue what is going on. Perhaps there will be an article in my newspaper tomorrow that will explain the price crash. However, the report also said that June oil futures were at $20 a barrel and July's futures were up to $30 a barrel.
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It costs money and is difficult to turn off the spigot of pipelines and pumps. They're just not designed to stop and start. You have to have a place to put it, and then you tap those tanks.
Kinda like the opposite of the gotta-add-more-electrons problem that the electrical grid has, checking the frequency lag and turning on and off peaker plants to keep everything plugged in as demand and supply shifts.
-Crissa
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https://www.wonkette.com/oil-now-same-price-as-pack-of-cigarettes-just-kidding-now-its-trader-joes-wine-just-kidding-now-its-stamp-just-kidding-now-its-gumball-just-kidding-now-its-free
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I just heard on the CBS radio financial news that oil prices have dropped to a negative $34 a barrel today. I sure don't have a clue what is going on. Perhaps there will be an article in my newspaper tomorrow that will explain the price crash. However, the report also said that June oil futures were at $20 a barrel and July's futures were up to $30 a barrel.
Oil futures are what apparently went negative whether it was all day or just a little bit at closing time I did not investigate. Speculators who have no intention of actually taking delivery got in a tight spot. Your last link is kind of silly. This one might be somewhat better. https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-oil-is-11-a-barrel-now-but-three-times-that-in-autumn-11587392745 "Contract expiration also flushes out speculators who have no intention to take delivery of barrels of crude. Exchange-traded funds, which control a large number of futures contracts, are among those that must sell at expiration. The forced selling adds downward pressure to prices. "
There is quite a variety of oil types depending on where it comes from. You are probably using the price for west texas sweet or something like that.
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You are right, Frank. The teaser news yesterday was mostly drama to get people (like me) to pay attention to something other than virus news. This article seems to provide more details regarding what is going on:
WrM&feature=emb_titlehttps://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-the-oil-market-just-crashed-below-0-a-barrel-4-things-investors-need-to-know-2020-04-20
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I don't get why EV enthusiasts are so worried about folks buying gas guzzlers instead of electrics due to the cheap fuel costs right now. All these short-minded idiots will have to deal with their fuel costs doubling in a year or to any way. Also, governments, while temporarily limiting these policies, will continue to enact more strict zero emission guidelines despite how cheap fuel is.
I think it's more important that there's less vehicles on our roads now, and I hope that people working from work right now continue to do so most of the time after it's safe to no longer distance themselves.
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I don't get why EV enthusiasts are so worried about folks buying gas guzzlers instead of electrics due to the cheap fuel costs right now. All these short-minded idiots will have to deal with their fuel costs doubling in a year or to any way. Also, governments, while temporarily limiting these policies, will continue to enact more strict zero emission guidelines despite how cheap fuel is.
I think it's more important that there's less vehicles on our roads now, and I hope that people working from work right now continue to do so most of the time after it's safe to no longer distance themselves.
Both are important.
But the reason to be concerned about abandonment of EV adoption is that EVs have problems due to lack of scale, and slowing or reduced sales exacerbate that problem. Continued sales growth is needed until each vehicle category can produce an affordable vehicle that sustains the manufacturer.
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Both are important.
But the reason to be concerned about abandonment of EV adoption is that EVs have problems due to lack of scale, and slowing or reduced sales exacerbate that problem. Continued sales growth is needed until each vehicle category can produce an affordable vehicle that sustains the manufacturer.
Thankfully, auto manufacturers in Europe such as VW & Renault already produce BEVs at very competitive prices right now so their momentum isn't at risk, they'll be our beacon of light in these dark times.
Honestly, I'm more concerned about a great recession than anything. It's probably going to take a long time for people to purchase new cars, no matter what type of fuel they use.
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Both are important.
But the reason to be concerned about abandonment of EV adoption is that EVs have problems due to lack of scale, and slowing or reduced sales exacerbate that problem. Continued sales growth is needed until each vehicle category can produce an affordable vehicle that sustains the manufacturer.
Thankfully, auto manufacturers in Europe such as VW & Renault already produce BEVs at very competitive prices right now so their momentum isn't at risk, they'll be our beacon of light in these dark times.
Honestly, I'm more concerned about a great recession than anything. It's probably going to take a long time for people to purchase new cars, no matter what type of fuel they use.
You aren't on a VW or Renault forum, you're on an electric motorcycle forum where these scales do not apply yet. Believe what you like, but this industry segment needs a lot of help.
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You aren't on a VW or Renault forum, you're on an electric motorcycle forum where these scales do not apply yet. Believe what you like, but this industry segment needs a lot of help.
A lot of the R&D put into EVs to make them cheap will affect the price of electric motorcycles in the long run, so yes I do think that VW & Renault will help. I'm more concerned about motorcycle sales globally, they've been declining even before all this virus mess.
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That might be something to do with their increasing weight, increasing power, increasing complexity, and increasing cost. Look at how the 600 market died out completely because the manufacturers chased focus that nobody wanted. The giant adventure market may go tits up at some point too when everyone cottons on they're just too big and serious to actually enjoy.
Cas :)
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I think the e-bike and electric scooter markets will keep the industry afloat, and I hope these pioneers in the industry will put some funds into halo performance and adventure brands.
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One thing about the mountains is that in this downturn, one vehicle left pretty unscathed is motorcycles. I've been riding only eight months, but now I get passed by at last a motorcycle every time I go down the highway... Let alone the one-in-ten vehicles going the other way.
Maybe that'll show in the difference in sales, but the number of them on the street is about the same - while it's all other vehicles that have reduced.
-Crissa
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Good riddance, too... I was out with my eldest walking the dog yesterday and I suddenly realised that without all the cars whooshing around everywhere it felt just like it did when I was her age (back in the 70s). We have ruined the world.
Cas :)
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The price of oil dropped to $13 a barrel today. Business articles in the past have stated that it takes a price of $50 to $60 a barrel for U.S. oil producers to make a profit. Not sure if that applies to the overseas producers, though.
I don't think that the price of oil has too much to do with the price of electricity unless its price also affects the cost of natural gas, which is used a lot in power generation in many areas. Its primary impact is in lowering the price of gasoline, which affects the sales of new and used vehicles. But that is pretty much a moot point as the market for new and used vehicles of all types (including motorcycles) has pretty much collapsed since most factories have closed and most people are not traveling anywhere except for maybe commuting to a job, if they have one, which means that replacing their current vehicle is not something on their mind too much - especially if they are not working right now.