ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => Electric Motorcycle News => Topic started by: Richard230 on March 28, 2020, 04:17:18 AM
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In Issue 1 of 2020, Cycle World magazine interviews Markus Schramm, BMW Motorrad’s director. He is quoted as making the following statement in response to a question asking if “BMW Motorrad will produce electric bikes”. Mr. Schramm says that: “In the urban environment, it is possible there will be an electric BMW motorcycle in five years. In the touring, off-road, and sport segments, I am not sure that we will see them.” ???
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Well he may indeed be 1/3 right on that last sentence. Touring is going to be difficult without some kind of battery breakthrough. Posting charging stations every 100 miles is not the answer.
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He's being extraordinarily shortsighted... not least because petrol bikes will literally be banned from sale from around 2035 or so. They've got 15 years to figure out a 200 mile range at a weight we can lift at a price we can afford. Surely not hard for one of the biggest vehicle manufacturers in the world.
Cas :)
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Germany and Japan have spent over70 years making some of the best and most long lasting gas engines you can buy.
Now the world is asking them to get in the back of the line with electric vehicles.
Don't expect a warm embrace.
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Touring is going to be difficult without some kind of battery breakthrough. Posting charging stations every 100 miles is not the answer.
But every 50 miles should work! I would take that over more battery capacity, especially if charging is not faster on batteries with more capacity.
For an example, the 13.4 KWH Energica battery gives more range per hour of charge than their new larger 21.5 KWH battery, especially at freeway speeds, according to their own specs. With the 21.5 KWH, charge twice as long to get 40% more distance on the freeway. Older smaller KWH battery will give more miles in less time. That means a faster trip with the smaller battery when there are enough charge stations.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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For an example, the 13.4 KWH Energica battery gives more range per hour of charge than their new larger 21.5 KWH battery,
We don't know this, Don.
-Crissa
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Haha, of course he won't see it... in 3 years, once they have lost a lot of traction, he will get fired and they will start mass producing electric BMW GS's :D
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Who knows what BMW wants its cempetitors to believe ...
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We don't know this, Don.
-Crissa
But here is what we do know by their own specs:
"SS9 (13.4 KWH) DC Fast Charge 0-85% SOC 20 min."
"SS9+ (21.5 kWH) DC Fast Charge 0-85% SOC 40 min."
Hwy Range spec on each:
"SS9 (13.4 KWH) highway= 80 miles"
"SS9+ (21.5 KWH) highway=112 miles"
Above shows it takes TWICE the charge time to go 40% more distance (but they do not give a spec for time to 100% charge).
Those are Energica's own specs.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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That would assume the bike is less efficient than the prior bike.
And published stats aren't 'knowing'.
...And one would expect it to take longer to charge 13KWh than 21KWh on the same charger.
-Crissa
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That would assume the bike is less efficient than the prior bike.
By their own specs, at freeway speeds, it is.
And published stats aren't 'knowing'.
Be sure to let them know!
...And one would expect it to take longer to charge 13KWh than 21KWh on the same charger.
Why is that? And why do their specs say the opposite?
-Don-
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Is it not the case that the charging rate is a curve? You don't get a linear time based on the battery size. And the curve is different depending on chemistry and arrangement?
Cas :)
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Is it not the case that the charging rate is a curve? You don't get a linear time based on the battery size. And the curve is different depending on chemistry and arrangement?
Cas :)
Look at Zero specs. Any model. Double the battery KWH and get double the range to the mile. Double the charge time and get twice the MPH of charge. Unlike Energica when comparing their newer battery to the older. Charge twice as long for a 40% range increase on the freeway.
What makes the big difference is that with a battery a KWH is only a KWH at the current draw where they rate it. No such thing a a true KWH with a battery, but Energica rates theirs at a current of a lower speed to get that higher number. That higher number lowers at higher speeds where the load is a lot more.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Methinks manufacturers are instead going to have to quote figures in ranges-at-speeds instead in future.
Cas :)
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Methinks manufacturers are instead going to have to quote figures in ranges-at-speeds instead in future.
Cas :)
That's what Tesla does. All type of charts to show range at various speeds.
I wish they would do this (https://teslike.com/range/) with electric motorcycles.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I imagine they're not because... the ranges suck :)
Cas :)
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Methinks manufacturers are instead going to have to quote figures in ranges-at-speeds instead in future.
Cas :)
That's what Tesla does. All type of charts to show range at various speeds.
I wish they would do this (https://teslike.com/range/) with electric motorcycles.
-Don- Auburn, CA
As I recall, Zero has been doing this to a limited extent for some time and in my experience their estimates seem pretty accurate.
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I imagine they're not because... the ranges suck :)
Cas :)
Yeah, but Energica has one thing going for them. Their bike is probably the bike with the most range of any for this year at lower speeds.
But if the specs are accurate the NEW larger 21.5 KWH battery has a freeway range of 112 miles which is exactly the same range Zero claims with their 2019 Zero SR with PowerTank, which is 18 KW max instead of Energica's 21.5 KWH max.
Also the combined range of the Energica + (21.5 KWH) is 143 miles. The combined range of the Zero SR with Power tank (18 KWH) is 150 miles.
I would give the longest range award to Zero, not the new Energicas, because we very rarely, if ever, ride over 200 miles "city". But at such low speeds, Eneriga's 21.5 KWH spec is 249 miles and Zero's 18 KWH is 223 miles, if the specs are accurate.
So IMO, the range award goes to Zero. The fast charge award goes to Energica, but on their older
13.4 KWH battery even more-so than their 21.5KWH battery.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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As I recall, Zero has been doing this to a limited extent for some time and in my experience their estimates seem pretty accurate.
They have? What do they say the range is at a steady 80 MPH?
I only "city, freeway, and combined" and have no idea what the testing speeds are.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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As I recall, Zero has been doing this to a limited extent for some time and in my experience their estimates seem pretty accurate.
They have? What do they say the range is at a steady 80 MPH?
I only "city, freeway, and combined" and have no idea what the testing speeds are.
-Don- Auburn, CA
They only offer those three range estimates: city, freeway ( forget the steady speed that is listed, I think it might be 70mph) and a combined range of half city and half freeway. No 80 mph range for sure.
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Zero gives a City range which is "stop and go" with no speed figures given (however if you look up sae j2982 it might give you some), and Highway ranges at a steady 55mph and 70mph, as well as each Highway speed combined with the City range.
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I thought this was a thread about BMW.
Anyway, they can accomplish it, and I think an electric motorcycle really could be as robust and long-lived as an R-series bike. It might take 10-15 years to churn through battery chemistry improvements and so on, and we might start getting into capacitor maintenance in the long haul, but I think it's just a matter of organized investment at scale.