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Author Topic: Zero SOC dropping while charging  (Read 387 times)

domingo3

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Zero SOC dropping while charging
« on: March 03, 2020, 10:31:20 AM »
Wondering if anyone else has experienced this or think it is indicating something to be concerned about.

Sometimes, but not always, the SOC will go down for the first ~30-60 minutes of charging.  If I leave it plugged in, it will go up to 100% eventually.  I've noticed that if I unplug after only charging in an hour or so, that the rate that the SOC is much lower for the first few miles until it appears to catch up with where the SOC should have been if it had increased SOC while charging.

A sampling of the log files are below.  The first one is pretty representative, so unless you are looking for a pattern, you probably don't need to waste your time looking at others.






Code: [Select]
01067     01/08/2020 13:21:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 18C, l 16C, AmbTemp: -1C, PackSOC: 62%, Vpack:103.051V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01068     01/08/2020 13:31:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 17C, l 16C, AmbTemp: -1C, PackSOC: 58%, Vpack:103.778V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01069     01/08/2020 13:41:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 17C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 5C, PackSOC: 58%, Vpack:104.193V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01070     01/08/2020 13:51:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 17C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 6C, PackSOC: 59%, Vpack:104.447V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01071     01/08/2020 14:01:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 17C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 8C, PackSOC: 61%, Vpack:104.882V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01072     01/08/2020 14:11:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 17C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 9C, PackSOC: 63%, Vpack:105.550V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01073     01/08/2020 14:21:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 17C, l 15C, AmbTemp: 9C, PackSOC: 66%, Vpack:106.254V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01074     01/08/2020 14:31:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 17C, l 15C, AmbTemp: 10C, PackSOC: 68%, Vpack:106.904V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01075     01/08/2020 14:41:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 16C, l 15C, AmbTemp: 10C, PackSOC: 70%, Vpack:107.385V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01076     01/08/2020 14:51:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 16C, l 15C, AmbTemp: 10C, PackSOC: 72%, Vpack:107.827V, BattAmps:  -6, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01077     01/08/2020 15:01:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 16C, l 15C, AmbTemp: 10C, PackSOC: 74%, Vpack:108.267V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01078     01/08/2020 15:11:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 16C, l 15C, AmbTemp: 10C, PackSOC: 75%, Vpack:108.734V, BattAmps:  -6, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01079     01/08/2020 15:21:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 16C, l 14C, AmbTemp: 10C, PackSOC: 77%, Vpack:109.097V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No

Code: [Select]
01067     01/08/2020 13:21:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 18C, l 16C, AmbTemp: -1C, PackSOC: 62%, Vpack:103.051V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01068     01/08/2020 13:31:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 17C, l 16C, AmbTemp: -1C, PackSOC: 58%, Vpack:103.778V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01069     01/08/2020 13:41:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 17C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 5C, PackSOC: 58%, Vpack:104.193V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01070     01/08/2020 13:51:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 17C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 6C, PackSOC: 59%, Vpack:104.447V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01071     01/08/2020 14:01:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 17C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 8C, PackSOC: 61%, Vpack:104.882V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01072     01/08/2020 14:11:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 17C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 9C, PackSOC: 63%, Vpack:105.550V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01073     01/08/2020 14:21:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 17C, l 15C, AmbTemp: 9C, PackSOC: 66%, Vpack:106.254V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01074     01/08/2020 14:31:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 17C, l 15C, AmbTemp: 10C, PackSOC: 68%, Vpack:106.904V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01075     01/08/2020 14:41:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 16C, l 15C, AmbTemp: 10C, PackSOC: 70%, Vpack:107.385V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01076     01/08/2020 14:51:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 16C, l 15C, AmbTemp: 10C, PackSOC: 72%, Vpack:107.827V, BattAmps:  -6, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01077     01/08/2020 15:01:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 16C, l 15C, AmbTemp: 10C, PackSOC: 74%, Vpack:108.267V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01078     01/08/2020 15:11:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 16C, l 15C, AmbTemp: 10C, PackSOC: 75%, Vpack:108.734V, BattAmps:  -6, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01079     01/08/2020 15:21:14   Charging                   PackTemp: h 16C, l 14C, AmbTemp: 10C, PackSOC: 77%, Vpack:109.097V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No

Code: [Select]
01768     01/14/2020 18:30:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 17C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 4C, PackSOC: 69%, Vpack:104.366V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01769     01/14/2020 18:40:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 17C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 6C, PackSOC: 64%, Vpack:105.284V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01770     01/14/2020 18:50:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 18C, l 17C, AmbTemp: 9C, PackSOC: 65%, Vpack:105.726V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01771     01/14/2020 19:00:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 18C, l 17C, AmbTemp: 11C, PackSOC: 68%, Vpack:106.710V, BattAmps:  -6, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01772     01/14/2020 19:10:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 18C, l 17C, AmbTemp: 12C, PackSOC: 70%, Vpack:107.366V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01773     01/14/2020 19:20:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 18C, l 17C, AmbTemp: 13C, PackSOC: 72%, Vpack:107.801V, BattAmps:  -6, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01774     01/14/2020 19:30:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 18C, l 17C, AmbTemp: 13C, PackSOC: 74%, Vpack:108.262V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01775     01/14/2020 19:40:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 18C, l 17C, AmbTemp: 14C, PackSOC: 75%, Vpack:108.723V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01776     01/14/2020 19:50:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 18C, l 17C, AmbTemp: 15C, PackSOC: 77%, Vpack:109.195V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01777     01/14/2020 20:00:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 18C, l 17C, AmbTemp: 16C, PackSOC: 79%, Vpack:109.670V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01778     01/14/2020 20:10:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 18C, l 17C, AmbTemp: 16C, PackSOC: 80%, Vpack:110.129V, BattAmps:  -6, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01779     01/14/2020 20:20:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 18C, l 17C, AmbTemp: 16C, PackSOC: 82%, Vpack:110.637V, BattAmps:  -6, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01780     01/14/2020 20:30:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 18C, l 17C, AmbTemp: 16C, PackSOC: 84%, Vpack:111.075V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01781     01/14/2020 20:40:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 19C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 16C, PackSOC: 85%, Vpack:111.641V, BattAmps:  -6, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01782     01/14/2020 20:50:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 19C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 16C, PackSOC: 87%, Vpack:112.106V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01783     01/14/2020 21:00:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 19C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 16C, PackSOC: 88%, Vpack:112.488V, BattAmps:  -6, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01784     01/14/2020 21:10:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 19C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 16C, PackSOC: 91%, Vpack:113.130V, BattAmps:  -6, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01785     01/14/2020 21:20:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 19C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 16C, PackSOC: 92%, Vpack:113.502V, BattAmps:  -6, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01786     01/14/2020 21:30:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 19C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 16C, PackSOC: 94%, Vpack:114.133V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01787     01/14/2020 21:40:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 19C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 16C, PackSOC: 96%, Vpack:114.604V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01788     01/14/2020 21:50:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 19C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 16C, PackSOC: 98%, Vpack:115.135V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01789     01/14/2020 22:00:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 19C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 16C, PackSOC: 99%, Vpack:115.734V, BattAmps:  -6, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 01790     01/14/2020 22:10:09   Charging                   PackTemp: h 19C, l 16C, AmbTemp: 16C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:116.269V, BattAmps:  -6, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
Code: [Select]
07498     03/02/2020 02:27:48   Charging                   PackTemp: h 6C, l 6C, AmbTemp: -2C, PackSOC: 60%, Vpack:103.181V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 07499     03/02/2020 02:37:48   Charging                   PackTemp: h 7C, l 6C, AmbTemp: -1C, PackSOC: 57%, Vpack:103.779V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 07500     03/02/2020 02:47:48   Charging                   PackTemp: h 7C, l 6C, AmbTemp: -1C, PackSOC: 56%, Vpack:104.114V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No

Code: [Select]
00666     01/07/2020 02:16:57   Charging                   PackTemp: h 6C, l 5C, AmbTemp: -3C, PackSOC: 67%, Vpack:104.811V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 00667     01/07/2020 02:26:57   Charging                   PackTemp: h 6C, l 5C, AmbTemp: -1C, PackSOC: 66%, Vpack:105.907V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 00668     01/07/2020 02:36:57   Charging                   PackTemp: h 6C, l 5C, AmbTemp: -1C, PackSOC: 66%, Vpack:106.574V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 
Code: [Select]
00932     01/08/2020 02:30:41   Charging                   PackTemp: h 5C, l 4C, AmbTemp: -4C, PackSOC: 86%, Vpack:111.368V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 00933     01/08/2020 02:40:41   Charging                   PackTemp: h 5C, l 4C, AmbTemp: -2C, PackSOC: 85%, Vpack:112.447V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 00934     01/08/2020 02:50:41   Charging                   PackTemp: h 5C, l 4C, AmbTemp: -1C, PackSOC: 88%, Vpack:113.054V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 00935     01/08/2020 03:00:41   Charging                   PackTemp: h 5C, l 5C, AmbTemp: -1C, PackSOC: 90%, Vpack:113.687V, BattAmps:  -5, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 
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2016 Zero FXS 2018 Zero FXS 2016 SR

TheRan

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Re: Zero SOC dropping while charging
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2020, 11:28:32 AM »
Strangely the voltage is rising normally, and the SoC is supposed to be representative of that. Do those ambient temps seem accurate to you? A rise of 6C in ten minutes doesn't sound possible, and it's weird that the reading rises suddenly after the SoC corrects itself. If I had to guess, call it a theory, AmbTemp isn't a measure of the ambient temperature but rather something else (or the ambient temp sensor is placed near something) and that component is being heated using energy from the battery because it is actually sub zero when you're putting the bike on charge.

What model is it? I seem to remember people saying that the SR/F has a heater in it for some component.

EDIT: Scrolling further right I also see that something is drawing 5/6 amps from the battery while it is charging, not an insignificant amount of power. A 500/600 watt heater doesn't sound completely unreasonable but perhaps a tad higher than I would have guessed.

EDIT again: Actually, I think a negative number would be energy going into the battery (when I saw the minus my mind went to it being taken away from it). I'm guessing it's an FX/S? Those have something like a 600 watt charger.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 11:38:38 AM by TheRan »
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domingo3

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Re: Zero SOC dropping while charging
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2020, 11:56:39 AM »
I haven't paid much attention to the ambient temp, but it is winter in Maryland, and the temps look reasonable.

Sorry for making you tease out clues for what bike.  I had 2018 FXS in my signature, but I noticed that it's not in my post.  Will look into that..

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2016 Zero FXS 2018 Zero FXS 2016 SR

Crissa

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Re: Zero SOC dropping while charging
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2020, 02:04:39 PM »
I've found my 2014 S to jump around a bit when charging if it's cold.  But only a few percent and if I get out into the sun it sometimes comes back.

Never went down during charging, tho.

-Crissa
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MVetter

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Re: Zero SOC dropping while charging
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2020, 03:29:08 PM »
Shit son. You live in the cold lands. Here's the super abridged take on it. Your battery gets charged and discharged. This makes it warm up. You ride it home afterward and it thinks, oh god I'm at X degree Fahrenheit and Y state of charge.

This changes. You parked. Bike wakes up and goes, "OH GOD IT'S COLD OUT! DON'T LOOK AT ME! I'VE NEVER HAD THIS PROBLEM BEFORE!"

Nod and close your eyes; rock back and forth in your rocking chair. Soothe it. It's going to be ok.
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TheRan

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Re: Zero SOC dropping while charging
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2020, 06:56:26 PM »
I don't think it's the temp of the battery pack, judging by the pack temp it looks like he put it on charge right after riding at least in the first three logs.
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Crissa

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Re: Zero SOC dropping while charging
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2020, 02:47:37 AM »
Quote from: MVetter on March 03, 2020, 03:29:08 PM
This changes. You parked. Bike wakes up and goes, "OH GOD IT'S COLD OUT! DON'T LOOK AT ME! I'VE NEVER HAD THIS PROBLEM BEFORE!"
If you're cold, it's cold ^-^

-Crissa
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2014 Zero S ZF8.5

Curt

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Re: Zero SOC dropping while charging
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2020, 03:19:47 AM »
I'll totally speculate that it's a normal effect of the firmware SOC calculation taking temperature into account. The charge is not actually going down, as corroborated by the voltage only going up.

The firmware estimates the current charge is 62%. The battery is rapidly warmed from -1C to 10C by charging current. The firmware's estimation of total battery capacity goes up much faster than the current charge. Firmware decides the battery can hold more, and that the battery is really only 58% full.

Other people on the same firmware should experience something similar. Hopefully someone in your climate zone can post up. I bet most people plug in and walk away so they would never notice this.
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TheRan

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Re: Zero SOC dropping while charging
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2020, 03:34:46 AM »
PackTemp is the temperature of the battery though, right? That's actually staying fairly still, rising by 2 degrees in one case and actually falling by 2 degrees in two others. With the high temperatures of the battery in the first two cases and the really cold ambient temp (if it's correct) is why I assumed he plugged it in not long after riding.
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Curt

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Re: Zero SOC dropping while charging
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2020, 10:33:04 AM »
Quote from: TheRan on March 04, 2020, 03:34:46 AM
PackTemp is the temperature of the battery though, right?

Oh you're right. Only the ambient temp goes up, presumably from being in the garage. It would be a stretch, but maybe the firmware is considering ambient temp?

Another experiment would be to see if the SOC value goes down over a half hour period when parked in the garage but NOT charging.
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