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[enaef]

2020-Zero-Owners-Manual-SRF

Section 7.6

"Cold weather operation of the motorcycle has no permanent
impact on its power pack/cells; however, the rider may see a
reduction in range due to the effect cold temperature has on the
amount of energy the pack/cells can release. The colder the
weather, the greater the effect; so that, as compared to
operation in 80°F (27°C) ambient, at 30°F (-1°C) ambient, the
rider could experience a temporary reduction in range of up to
30%."

[dittoalex]

My 13.0 with 9000 miles needs a monolith, it went from 30% left when I got home from my loop to now I have had to decrease my return slab from 70 mph to 65 mph and now the minimum 60 mph just to make it home with between 5% and 0%.  Going by the SoC at the end of my ride, cold weather has permanently hurt the battery life as the final SoC has only kept getting worse.   

[togo]

My 13.0 with 9000 miles needs a monolith, it went from 30% left when I got home from my loop to now I have had to decrease my return slab from 70 mph to 65 mph and now the minimum 60 mph just to make it home with between 5% and 0%.  Going by the SoC at the end of my ride, cold weather has permanently hurt the battery life as the final SoC has only kept getting worse.

Have you let it sit plugged in past 100% for a few hours to make sure it's fully charged on all cells/fully balanced? Sometimes 100% indicated is not really 100%.  What does battery balance show?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Crissa]

And kept it warm as it was plugged in?

We'd need to know the temperatures and time period you're talking about and check your Whpm over time.  As a rider gets more comfortable with a bike or route, their average speed tends to increase...

-Crissa

[gregj]

I need to ask a question here. Please excuse my ignorance as I am just getting started with Emotorcycles.
Does a Zero have Li-ion battery? I don't know if they react the same as LiFePO4 batteries re: temperature. I have found with LiFePO4 batteries, that reports indicate that in lower temperatures with ice motors, that owners just turn the bike on for a couple of minutes with the headlight on and the internal resistance heats up the battery to usuable, especially once the charging circuit starts delivering current to the battery.
I know it isn't the same exactly, but wouldn't the current flow , once the motor was being used, warm the battery sufficiently to working temperature? True the battery packs are biased towards removing heat once being used ( and charged) which could reduce the temp once airflow was occurring.
Would developing a shutter system to regulate airflow over the battery allow optimium temp. help with range in that case.
NOTE: Cold battery temps is NOT someting I am ever going to experience where I live , so this is all new to me.

[Crissa]

gregj:  Some use an active cooling system to spread the head around... I think Energica does this?  The new SR/F has a heating system to keep the battery back from falling beneath the minimum, but it interrupts operation to do so.  Generally, that's at a very, very low temperature.

LiFEPO4 batteries are just a subset of Lithium-ion batteries.

Some have recommended putting a shroud around the battery pack in cold weather, which would be more effective but the same idea as shutters.

If you're cold, they're cold.  And it's not just a matter of minimums:  Even at 50F the battery performs worst than at 80F.  It's a long sloping curve.  The battery continues to perform down into below freezing temperatures, but at worse and worse efficiencies.  And shouldn't be charged while below freezing, since the semi-liquid electrolyte might not function and adding electrons to it could short out.  But you can still use it at that temperature!  The electrons inside it would just be trapped.

-Crissa

[valnar]

Too cold and the battery doesn't perform as well.  Too hot & too fast, and you risk the motor overheating.

Often times it does appear these things are just made for California.

[princec]

As I understand it, the range is effectively being sapped by electricity being converted into heat and subsequently lost out of the battery. If it were properly insulated it wouldn't have this problem (though you'd then need a proper cooling system for when it got warm). Liquid cooling is probably the future of batteries, as Tesla have shown.

Cas

[Crissa]

Even today there are air-cooled ICE bikes so there will always be passive-cooled battery packs that just live with the trade-offs.

Certainly for higher performance you'll want an active system with cooling/heating.

-Crissa

[Fran K]

I know it isn't the same exactly, but wouldn't the current flow , once the motor was being used, warm the battery sufficiently to working temperature? True the battery packs are biased towards removing heat once being used ( and charged) which could reduce the temp once airflow was occurring.
Would developing a shutter system to regulate airflow over the battery allow optimium temp. help with range in that case.
NOTE: Cold battery temps is NOT someting I am ever going to experience where I live , so this is all new to me.

It is a good question.  My ktm freeride has a normal mode, then an 80% reduced power mode which comes on either due to cold or low charge, and a 50% reduced power mode.  I hardly notice the 80% mode but the 50% definitely.  I have yet run the bike hard enough for it to go from the 80% mode to the 100% mode, even if I start out with a warm battery and stop for a while and it goes into 80% mode (from sitting outside) after say just a mile or so.

With the battery tools like a leaf blower that will drain the battery or batteries in 10 minutes they definitely get warm.  Might even shut down in 100 degree F conditions.  My suspicion is that for the folks on here in commuter mode their batteries are just too big for the warming from use to be significant.

Charging will warm these batteries, obviously more if charged at or near the max allowable.  However they recommend not charging them if they are too cold.

[Wolvaroo]

Thought I'd chime in as I've been riding to work before sunrise around -1C to 2C for a couple months now.

2019 Zero FXS 7.2 commute is around 50% city/highway

I do notice a significant drop in power and range at these temps. Normally I can hit 130-140km/h easily on the highway but I'm topping out around 70-90km/h depending on a couple degrees difference. I usually use between 25-30%. Today it read 36% when I left and it ran dry about 1km from work (had to push it the rest). Cells likely not balanced as it dropped from 2% to 0% rather suddenly. I kind of expected the computer to lie to you and keep a little extra in reserve as a bit of idiot proofing but I didn't notice it. I expect the combination of it being a little colder than the weather forecast said and also starting at a low charge did me in.

Even on the cold slower mornings I'm back to almost normal operation hitting around 120km/h in the afternoon when it's only 4-5C.

I think it might be time for me to use some insulating wrap on the battery until it warms up a bit. Thanks daylight savings =(

Anyone got a link to the most popular cold weather battery mods?

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

"cold winter battery mods" = wrap the battery in 3mm (1/8in) neoprene foam sheeting and secure it properly. I was working on a product for this for a while, and definitely have a hand-made mockup I use when it gets cold and/or wet out.

Aerostich put a heated blanket around the FX battery for a stronger effect: https://www.aerostich.com/blog/category/zero-below-zero/

[Richard230]

My 2018 S with PT keeps about 10 miles in reserve after you hit "00".  I guess the smaller the battery, the smaller the reserve.  But in your case, it would appear to be a negative reserve. 

[togo]

My 2018 S with PT keeps about 10 miles in reserve after you hit "00".  I guess the smaller the battery, the smaller the reserve.  But in your case, it would appear to be a negative reserve. 

My 14SR consistent died at 6% indicated SoC.  Haven't ridden the 16SR down often enough to see a pattern, I haven't felt a need to push distance as much with the larger battery..

[Crissa]

I've had it die at different numbers; I assume temperature makes SOC less reliable a reading since it affects the voltage and amphours in the cells.

-Crissa