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[Electric Cowboy]

Also, incase anyone wants to see my original reviews with the bike IN MY HANDS, and BETWEEN MY LEGS, have a look at this playlist.

[Crissa]

The Zero cells were not recalled because they weren't protected enough.  They had other faults in their design.

Battery cells have had many additional steps added to keep them from failing since 2012 - and if the top of a bike is impaled, the rider is not going to be there.

Even Black and Decker is going to be putting out tools with the battery technology the Army uses to make Li-ion batteries that don't fail when impaled or shot up.  This is not a new thing.

-Crissa

[Electric Cowboy]

Hi Crissa,

I respectfully disagree and have shown my evidence.

I appreciate and respect your feedback, even if we don't agree.

[Crissa]

I think it's reasonable to disagree... But saying that it's a bomb is completely unreasonable fearmongering.

Like my spouse says, "If the tank is impaled from the top, where's your body, Manning?  Where's your body?"

-Crissa

[Electric Cowboy]

I respectfully maintain that your impaled body will be charring from the battery explosion while passersby watch your mutilated impaled corpse barbeque.

Regardless of the location of your body, the bike will still explode. Where your body is in a crash is wholly unrelated to the safety of the bike.

[MVetter]

(image of Star Wars scene where something had just exploded)

Moderator comment: Some kind of unnecessary meme image. The gore is a bit over the top and not appropriate.

[Crissa]

a) It will not explode.  Cells do burn, but they don't actually explode.

b) If you're impaled through the top of your bike, you've got bigger problems and would probably not survive on an ICE bike either.

Exaggerating is dishonest.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

a) It will not explode.  Cells do burn, but they don't actually explode.

Be sure to explain that here and here and countless other places.


-Don- Auburn, CA

[mistasam]

I feel like the potential for a puncture or physical damage to one of those cells is pretty low.  There are enough braces on the sides, and covers on the top to prevent that kind of thing from happening.  I don't think the pan filling up with metal shards is something you'd have to worry about.

The water vapor ingress thing is a valid concern though.  I'm with ya there.  HOWEVER... Energicas would have the same issue.  Unless the pack is sealed up and potted like Zero, there's always a risk of water getting in there and killing things.  The difference is that if one of the Lightning cells starts to fail, it's easier to swap 

[Crissa]

None of those were explosions, Don.  No one ever said the media didn't like to exaggerate for clicks.

-Crissa

PS: Notice in the second link, the tires have failed.  That would have been a bigger explosion than the battery pack!  Also it was in a garage, an enclosed space probably with other flammable liquids in sealed containers.

[princec]

2p on battery design:

These pouch-style batteries are fundamentally different from the ones that are employed by Tesla and car EVs; they use the same basic design as the considerably less stable and safe batteries found in mobile phones. These batteries do spontaneously catch fire and they do explode. They are hugely more fragile than the cylinder style 18650 types found in cars.

Tesla are using massively reinforced battery packs with 18650-style cylinders and a less energy dense chemistry than the pouch batteries specifically because of safety concerns. They will explode. Just because they have not exploded once does not mean that on balance they are safe. They are not.

I believe Energica have opted to take the risk of using pouch batteries because the energy density is just that much higher than the 18650, and if there's one thing hurting electric motorcycle take up right now, it's range and weight. It's a stopgap until a safer chemistry comes along for the same energy density. But notice that Energica have wisely encased the lot in a lump of solid metal.

No-one in their right mind who knows anything about batteries would ride the Lightning with unprotected pouch batteries. There's more to it than "well, it didn't explode last time I rode it".

Consider all these factors:

1. What happens when you crash it? (Very high risk of extraordinarily fierce fire that cannot be put out with conventional (red) extinguishers most people have to hand)
2. What happens when you crash it in the wet? (As well as the risk of fire, there is a severe risk of a very high voltage short which poses extreme risk to the rider if they remain on the bike when it's crashing, or if they try to pick it up again, or to anyone in the emergency services that attempts to pick it up - see MotoE insulated shepherds' crooks if you don't believe this)
3. What happens when one of the pouches begins to expand as it fills with hydrogen gas, as they frequently do in other applications with this design? (Hint: it involves hydrogen gas under high pressure, shorting, and what happens when you mix hydrogen gas, air, and electric sparks)
4. What happens when you're washing salty road grime off with a sponge?
5. What happens after a relatively minor spill which you forget about for a few days?

Cas

[DonTom]

Energicas would have the same issue.

Perhaps more-so in the 21.5 KWH battery, as the battery is made lighter with more cells that weight the same compared with the older battery.

But I doubt if any EV  explodes more often  than ICE vehicles, but I think we hear more about the EVs.  IMO, by the odds, it's not worth worrying about.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[NEW2elec]

Ok if we set aside the safety issue for just a moment (it's always there but lets dig deeper).  Is that going to be the long term setup for the 10kWh bikes?  If not why waste money on those (temporary) cells if they want to use 2170s?

They say they are going to use 2170 cells for the 20kWh battery right?  So based on the specs on those cells can they even be arranged in series to get a high enough voltage for CCS charging and in parallel to get a full 20kWh pack in that space?
You guys would have to do the electric math on that one, but when looking for answers we can eliminate the physically impossible.

[mistasam]

Here's my guess..

Unlike Zero when they unveiled the SR/S, Lightning didn't have hundreds of Strikes ready.  They probably wanted to build interest and capital (pre-orders) to build more.. but for a company so small, it takes time.

People got impatient, then there were supply chain delays and that turned into restless negativity.  People started saying the company was a scam.  The guy from South Africa was similar.  Too impatient so he pulled out and called them a scam.  Other LS218 owners admitted it took close to 2 years to get their bikes, but they did get their bikes.

So in response to the negativity, Lightning (probably?) offered the first owner a chance to get a bike with a temporary battery.. to get him riding and to show people that they were capable of delivering bikes, albeit not the final products.

Now we're waiting to see how the new battery upgrades go.  I wouldn't call it a scam, or vaporware, or a company built on lies lol.  It's just taking them longer than some people want to wait.  I had to wait close to a year for a test ride, but now that I've ridden one, I can't feel the same about any other bike.

So I will wait 

[princec]

Indeed, what you end up with in your garage is what we're all waiting to find out

Cas