ElectricMotorcycleForum.com

  • November 25, 2024, 05:24:18 PM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Electric Motorcycle Forum is live!

Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic: Honest Review of the Lightning Strike  (Read 7968 times)

JaimeC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1987
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Honest Review of the Lightning Strike
« on: March 01, 2020, 09:07:14 PM »

Logged
1999 BMW K1200LT
2019 Yamaha XMAX
2021 Zero SR

JaimeC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1987
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Honest Review of the Lightning Strike
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2020, 09:55:21 PM »

Sam, is it too late for you to get your money back??
Logged
1999 BMW K1200LT
2019 Yamaha XMAX
2021 Zero SR

Crissa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3144
  • Centauress
    • View Profile
Re: Honest Review of the Lightning Strike
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2020, 11:54:58 PM »

There are real disagreements with their idea that it's dangerous.

-Crissa
Logged
2014 Zero S ZF8.5

NEW2elec

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2657
    • View Profile
Re: Honest Review of the Lightning Strike
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2020, 12:31:12 AM »

I won't post it here but you can search battery cell puncture on YT.  So that but between your legs.

Keep in mind that's IF a cell gets punctured by a conductive object.
Logged

mistasam

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
    • View Profile
    • newzeroland
Re: Honest Review of the Lightning Strike
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2020, 12:40:51 AM »

As has been said before, the "danger" is greatly exaggerated, and videos like this are only hurting the company.  Brandon wants people to believe it's unsafe to even stand next to the bike, yet when an LS218 owner was hit by a car, destroying his highly-conductive carbon fiber fairings, the battery did not explode.  The cells weren't punctured.  More importantly, this isn't the final battery design.  The 20kWh packs use cylindrical 2170 cells.  These early owners were told that the batteries would be temporary and upgraded later.

So no  ;D I won't be cancelling my order.  Bottom line is, nobody else is making a bike that looks and feels like the Strike, and that's why I want one.
Logged

Crissa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3144
  • Centauress
    • View Profile
Re: Honest Review of the Lightning Strike
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2020, 02:58:50 AM »

Battery cell puncture fires vary wildly based upon the kinds of cells being punctured.  Many no longer short and burn out when punctured.

Also, since the fire is not primarily limited by outside oxygen, but high temperature transfer, having cells loosely arrayed makes them less likely to fail in a chain reaction.

Lastly, the amount of damage required to puncture even a laptop cell is fairly significant.  An amount that would generally also puncture standard motorcycle armor (and the flesh beneath).

-Crissa
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 03:02:08 AM by Crissa »
Logged
2014 Zero S ZF8.5

JaimeC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1987
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Honest Review of the Lightning Strike
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2020, 04:11:52 AM »

But the Strike is NOT an LS-218.  The LS-218 was built with "cost is no object" in mind.  The Strike was built with "cost is the ONLY object" in mind, in other words, as cheaply as possible in China.  BIG difference.

When something sounds too good to be true, it usually IS.
Logged
1999 BMW K1200LT
2019 Yamaha XMAX
2021 Zero SR

mistasam

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
    • View Profile
    • newzeroland
Re: Honest Review of the Lightning Strike
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2020, 04:27:59 AM »

Except.. the LS218 that crashed was using these batteries, and the Strikes delivered so far were built in California.. so..

Don't believe everything you see online.  Some people are hell bent on this company failing.  Don't even believe me.  I loved the bike, but it's not for everybody.  Go test ride one and make up your own decision about the ride / build quality.
Logged

Crissa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3144
  • Centauress
    • View Profile
Re: Honest Review of the Lightning Strike
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2020, 04:49:59 AM »

Yeah, their point about the peg placement is interesting but depends upon structure inside the swing arm and motor casing we can't see.  The weight would be an issue for a Dual Sport or other rough service design, which of course the Lightning in this iteration is not.

-Crissa
Logged
2014 Zero S ZF8.5

mistasam

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
    • View Profile
    • newzeroland
Re: Honest Review of the Lightning Strike
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2020, 04:57:34 AM »

A good chunk of that podcast was about the reduction gear, but no one chimes in to talk about Energica's reduction gear.  I used to think that was the reason it was so heavy, but now I'm stumped.  Is it entirely the battery's fault?

Also, Energicas have carbon fiber fairings, so cf being conductive should be a concern on them too, no?
Logged

JaimeC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1987
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Honest Review of the Lightning Strike
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2020, 05:15:57 AM »

The issue was that the CF fairing was rubbing against the top of the cells which are relativly unprotected, compared to the massive case Energica wraps around their battery pack, and the casing Zero wraps around their battery pack.  Of course, Zero doesn't use CF in their bodywork so its a moot point for them anyway.
Logged
1999 BMW K1200LT
2019 Yamaha XMAX
2021 Zero SR

mistasam

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
    • View Profile
    • newzeroland
Re: Honest Review of the Lightning Strike
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2020, 08:00:28 AM »

Not sure if you guys have seen these photos of a Strike without fairings on, but let me know what looks unsafe here.
Logged

Electric Cowboy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 605
    • View Profile
    • Miller's Premium Brand Electrons : YouTube
Re: Honest Review of the Lightning Strike
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2020, 09:19:01 AM »

These parts look unsafe.





You can see why here : We show what these things look like out of the bike and I explain to Lex why they are dangerous.


mistasam

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
    • View Profile
    • newzeroland
Re: Honest Review of the Lightning Strike
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2020, 09:29:25 AM »

"Raw cells" inside protective cases.  Are you 100% sure those cases are the same flimsy sheets of metal you have at your shop?  Is it possible they're using something different?  And what are the odds that something could get in there, penetrate a case, then puncture a pouch?  The belly pan filling up with water and floating a screw up in there is a stretch for even my imagination XD
Logged

Electric Cowboy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 605
    • View Profile
    • Miller's Premium Brand Electrons : YouTube
Re: Honest Review of the Lightning Strike
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2020, 10:15:01 AM »

Sam, this is an example of what raw cells look like, I can understand why someone who has not worked with them would think they are protected.



In the below photo you see the other side ... omg ... It's not the same ... AND it's weak like a Capri sun drink bag. This is what I like to refer to as the bomb side of the cell.



Here you can see the cells unstacked. There is a small notch at the top which allows them to sort of stay together, kind of, on one side.



Here, you can see the plastic "protector" <- what you called it. You can see that it does not offer protection. you can also see in the videos we posted how this part is already experiencing severe chaffing from the carbon fiber tank at the top. Feel free to stop and look frame by frame. As much as I enjoy spending my time defending my assertions, I also love it when people use the info provided to do their own due diligence.



And here, I bent the plastic to show you that it breaks quite easily. This is not a protector, it is a "holder" it holds the cell in place with the other cells, it DOES NOT OFFER PROTECTION. I will show the cells below as well.



This is the capri sun like pouch



Here is the crazy thin slot holder, I bend it with one hand to show its lack of protective power.



Have another look from a different angle




Now, please take note of the copper at the top of the battery, this is where the busbars meet the cell tabs. That is protected by a thin sheet of paper-like material in the lightning. It's absurdly dangerous. Not to mention, not waterproof and not protected from fog or salty air.

This is why Zero recalled their 2012 batteries, the cells were protected physically from impact (which lightning is not, other than on the sides) the lightning is EVEN MORE EXPOSED than the 2012 Zero cells. And we all saw what happened over time with those cells, WHICH WERE IN A PROTECTIVE BATTERY BOX.

sooo yeah. in its current state, the bike is a BOMB. It will kill someone or some family given time. If the company would just stop trying to refute my clear and accurate statements, they might be able to apologize for the mistake, say they have learned, and promise to fix the issues. That's all they needed to do. I have since been told that the CEO, Richard Hatfield, has communicated with members of the media and told them that their batteries are protected and that is the heatsink I claim as cells. It is a bold face lie, which I don't understand. It puts them in between a rock and hard place. Now if they later admit to the issues, they end up showing everyone they were lying. It is a poor decision on their side to make choices like that. It says in the manual that if you wash the bike at one of those self car wash places you will void your warranty... really?

Another example of this sort of behavior is Hatfield publicly saying that passenger pegs are optional for all bikes if the customer wanted. Then... in the manual, it says you may not have a passenger on the bike under any circumstances. These sorts of clear contradictions can easily be found from lightning. It really is not hard to find questionable behavior and statements from them if you look.

Btw... the whole passenger area is made from bent sheet metal, so really, don't put a passenger on it ;)

I hope this helps clear stuff up. Please let's all ask lightning to fix the issues, and if something sounds odd, or shady, just ask for very clear concise answers without vague claims.


Pages: [1] 2 3