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[Crissa]

Separation of cells is a valid solution to thermal runaway.  They don't burn like logs - air gaps decrease rather than increase their fire potential.

It's just different, not just 'less safe'.

-Crissa

[NEW2elec]

I'll try to post this link like it is on their website (they do reconfigure it often)
https://lightningmotorcycle.com/product/specifications/

Right below the picture is a list of specs.  Under the 218 MPH it says "with high speed gearing and fairing" it was a * but now it's gone but same disclaimer.  You can also look up the salt flats run on YT and see it going over 213 on the Garmin unit.  That's enough for me to credit them with going real damn fast on two wheels powered by electricity.  Take from it what you will.  To me it was an impressive feat but not fully connected to the street LS218 since it's a different setup.

Sam I really don't want to rain on your happiness man and I hope you get it all and can import it to NZ and make awesome videos with it.

Oh and I did ask for more info and video's of the Strike to Lightning back in April of 19 and got ignored so that opened up my concerns then.

But this guy with the Strike that Morgan and Brandon have been dealing with clearly didn't go into his Strike purchase with the same knowledge and acceptance of what he was getting into as you would be.  To me that just wasn't cool.  The bike should have been finished and fully speced out before letting a new rider take that bike out, I'm sorry, that's just so backwards and unprofessional, they should be ashamed. 

What if that guy was in a wreck and got hurt or killed?  If the bike isn't ready it isn't ready.  If the guy is pissed and wants his money back because it isn't ready they have to suck it up and give him his money back.  But you don't let a half built bike leave the company, for safety as well as the quality reputation.

I hope they make this guy's bike right asap.  But they just can't let that happen again.

Sam let us know when they get the bikes up to full specs and out the door for $20k and I'll cheer them on to beat the band because that will be the best deal out there.  Until then I have to take a "show me" attitude.

[mistasam]

I feel ya, man. They shouldn't have rushed deliveries. Maybe all the negativity online was putting pressure on them. Maybe the first owner was cool with the temp battery, so Lightning made that offer to some others? Surely they asked this most recent guy if he was ok with that too, otherwise he could have waited.

I'm going to wait a bit on mine, so they have time to sort out whatever issues there are.. but I'm still 100% in  No other electric motorcycle feels as good to ride, to me personally, so the cosmetic flaws and other little things don't bother me. I understand that most people won't feel the same, especially not for $20k, but I liked it that much.

[MVetter]

Surely they asked this most recent guy if he was ok with that too, otherwise he could have waited.

The guy we interacted with is a wonderful person but a fresh, green, brand new baby motorcyclist. He doesn't know enough about anything to ask intelligent questions about anything. And that's not picking on the man. I really like him.

[wavelet]

But this guy with the Strike that Morgan and Brandon have been dealing with clearly didn't go into his Strike purchase with the same knowledge and acceptance of what he was getting into as you would be.  To me that just wasn't cool.  The bike should have been finished and fully speced out before letting a new rider take that bike out, I'm sorry, that's just so backwards and unprofessional, they should be ashamed. 

++
Some people would disagree, but IMO selling what is in effect a prototype of an aggressive sportbike to a total newbie rider is completely irresponsible.

In the past, I've tried to dissuade potential new riders I knew from starting to ride, if I thought they didn't have what it takes to ride reasonably safely (e.g., sufficient self-discipline to wear basic safety gear, or an ability to concentrate on their immediate surroundings). I also always emphasize the need to start gradually in terms of power/weight of bike (less of an issue over here, since we have graduated licensing).

[Crissa]

Electrics also don't have the skill steepness of shifting, clutch, and even braking is easier.  So I'm not sure the power is as much an issue with them as ICE powered bikes.

-Crissa

[wavelet]

Electrics also don't have the skill steepness of shifting, clutch, and even braking is easier.  So I'm not sure the power is as much an issue with them as ICE powered bikes.

-Crissa

Strongly disagree.
Grabbing a handful of throttle can and will surprise a newbie, pretty much on any ICE bike >400cc; electrics  even more so.

I know of amultiple cases, primarily in the US, of a complete newbie rider crashing a bike on his (it's pretty much always males) very first turn riding the bike out of the dealership after purchase.

Gear/clutch manipulation is far less of an issue IME of watching and helping new riders learn, than getting used to counter-steering and turning while leaning (*).

As for the rest of it:
In what way is braking easier on an electric? If you're referring to regen, not really relevant for braking from speed, and not much different than engine braking on most motorcycles (which have higher-compression engines relative to cars).
There are still two independent brakes on most bikes, EVs or not, which need to be operated in concert for optimal stopping, and they affect the suspension far more markedly than they do on a car.
Yes, ABS makes things  easier than they used to be, but the vast majority of ABS-equipped bikes don't have cornering-sensitive ABS (a.k.a. C-ABS), which means grabbing the brakes when leaned over will cause the bike to stand up, changing direction and suspension geometry, and yielding essentially next to no braking while surprising the inexperienced rider.
So again, the turning/leaning issues dominate.

(*) Granted, over here, most drivers do their driving lessons (mandatory with licensed instructor -- we don't have Learner's Permits)  & driving test on a manual car, but about half of riders get a motorcycle license before their car license.

[NEW2elec]

That bike currently doesn't have any mapping.  So no watered down Eco mode.  It's giving you all it's got all the time.  I guess thankfully it's not near the spec full power, for the new rider's sake.

On an electric, throttle control is very important but I agree for me the counter-steering that got me with some oh crap moments when I first started riding.

Where as Lightning isn't responsible for mistakes a new rider might commonly make there are other major safety issues with that bike that could compound a simple low side lay down.  If one of those battery cells gets punctured by a conductive object it will go very bad very quickly.

The whole situation has me really shaken for that guy's safety.  He needs to take it back and make sure the needed changes are made.

[Crissa]

...And anyone grabbing a handful of throttle would have thrown their car into a ditch, too.

I don't see the argument here.  Electrics can be set into Eco, Rain, newbie modes.  (Not applicable to the Lightning, that doesn't have that yet... But every other does.)

Braking is easier on the electric because you don't have to shift to mediate your engine braking - regen happens on the same control.

Electrics are just much, much easier for newbies to ride safely.

-Crissa

[Richard230]

That bike currently doesn't have any mapping.  So no watered down Eco mode.  It's giving you all it's got all the time.  I guess thankfully it's not near the spec full power, for the new rider's sake.

On an electric, throttle control is very important but I agree for me the counter-steering that got me with some oh crap moments when I first started riding.

Where as Lightning isn't responsible for mistakes a new rider might commonly make there are other major safety issues with that bike that could compound a simple low side lay down.  If one of those battery cells gets punctured by a conductive object it will go very bad very quickly.

The whole situation has me really shaken for that guy's safety.  He needs to take it back and make sure the needed changes are made.

Well, if he has a problem that results in an injury, there are plenty of lawyers in the SF Bay Area that will be happy to sue Lightning on his behalf. So many that they advertise on TV all afternoon long. 

[NEW2elec]

Crissa I agree it was easier for me to learn on my Zero than it would have been on a gas bike for those reasons but I'm only talking about this Strike and it's owner for now.

Richard, I know but I would rather both parties survive unharmed. 
You can cut corners in some businesses but not as a motorcycle company.  They will have to do better in the future.

[Richard230]

Crissa I agree it was easier for me to learn on my Zero than it would have been on a gas bike for those reasons but I'm only talking about this Strike and it's owner for now.

Richard, I know but I would rather both parties survive unharmed. 
You can cut corners in some businesses but not as a motorcycle company.  They will have to do better in the future.

That comment was meant to be a warning to Lightning.  Selling what appears to be a pre-production, half-finished, motorcycle to a new rider is not the best idea to do for any motor vehicle company, much less a new startup.

[NEW2elec]

Yeah I got it that's what I meant by the Lightning half of both parties surviving.  And I agree and hope they "tighten up" as we like to say.

[Richard230]

Here is an example of how a startup can cut corners.  Below is a photo of my 2010 Electric Motorsport GPR-S. Note that when the chain interfered with the lower left side swing arm brace, the company just cut it off with a hacksaw.  If you look closely, you can see the lower half of the brace on the other side and the part that was cut off in front of the support stand. 

[Richard230]

I found this picture in my computer files of a (the?) Lightning LS-218 that I took at an EV event during the fall of 2012, complete with a titanium swing arm - it says so on the part.