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[flattetyre]

OK, been a huge fan of the LS-218 for years. But the preponderance of evidence suggests lightning has never actually sold a single one to a consumer unaffiliated with the company. Why?

--There are no youtube private owner videos. AT ALL. Does that make any sense in 2020 (or even years ago when the bike was "launched") for a really trick bike people would want to show off? Even Energica, a very low volume manufacturer has private owner videos. Even very very rare niche bikes like the Boss Hoss have private owner videos. That's pretty weird that there would be quite a few press videos, and the hillclimb, but no private owner videos of a bike that supposedly has been for sale for years. Isn't it?
--Lightning owners group on facebook is mostly filled with people asking where their bikes are. A couple people recently posted supposed deliveries of their strikes, but I have to question if these are actual consumers with no connection to the company. From everything else we have seen from Lightning, I think it would be a safe assumption that these posts are company propaganda.
--Generally sketchy nature of the company's promises and announcements is a red flag

Now an important question is what would constitute proof of Lightning actually having sold the LS-218 to a totally unaffiliated consumer. A good start would be someone not in California who can tell a plausible story about how they got their bike. Other suggestions on how to settle this matter conclusively are welcome.

[JaimeC]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

[Crissa]

How many videos are there of other bespoke vehicles?  Is there a non-affiliated video for every superbike out there?

-Crissa

[NEW2elec]

Ok this is all I could ever find.  I think the solar company put the panels on the van that took the bike to the salt flats so I guess there was still a connection.

[flattetyre]

How many videos are there of other bespoke vehicles?  Is there a non-affiliated video for every superbike out there?

-Crissa

Instead of bespoke I probably should have said pre-production or prototype. And for an actual production bike that has gotten as much press and general interest as the LS-218, it would seem virtually impossible (of course, not impossible) for no unaffiliated videos to exist. The bike has gotten a lot of attention even outside the electric community. It's even in one of the most popular sportbike video games.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

My challenge should be easily falsifiable if Lightning's actually sold these bikes! That's sort of the point; they're the ones making the original claim (we sell the LS-218 to regular motorcyclists) but it looks like may be good reason for skepticism. Maybe a better thread title would have been "How to prove Lightning has actually sold bikes to real consumer as they've been claiming for years"

[ultrarnr]

This question has been raised in the past. Also the claim of what defines "production" bikes. Access to DMV files may reveal how many Lightning bikes have been registered with them. The price alone for an LS218 would have kept any sales to very small numbers and it is hard to say how much tech is on the LS-218. That could have limited sales further. Right now it seems the Strike that is being delivered is very much a bare bones electric motorcycles. Much of the tech on the LS-218 could have been transferred over and used on the Strike. But this is only if the LS218 actually had any tech features and with lack of video and other feedback that is hard to know. I would think if Lightning sold a LS-218 there should be a VIN associated with the bike and that VIN should be somewhere in the DMV system.

[wavelet]

This has been discussed several times here. I've asked this question on multiple EV websites, forums & groups. Noone on them had, or knows anyone who had,  what would reasonably be called a production LS-218.
One person, user Jayski posted here. He identifies as an actual LS-218 owner who bought the bike for racing purposes (e.g., Land Speed record).
However, his bike is a 1-off custom build (custom motor, 750V battery system) especially done by Lightning over a year cooperating with him. It also doesn't have a  legal lighting setup; I therefore wouldn't call it a production bike.

For that matter, the LS-218 claim to fame, "world's fastest production bike" is inherently bogus. That speed was attained by a bike with full-coverage custom enclosed fairing and custom gearing.

[flattetyre]

Is there even any evidence that the recent strike "deliveries" are legit? Aside from all the other stuff it doesn't make sense that the bikes are in "production" but they only roll out like two.

[MVetter]

I can confirm I have seen one Strike in person. The one I saw is a Carbon Edition but has what is being referred to as a "temporary" battery. 10kWh battery, 3.3kW AC charging only, no rider modes, no programmable regeneration. The one we rode had a very hard time going over 80mph. We're going to try and get more up close photos and riding tests on Sunday.

[wavelet]

This question has been raised in the past. Also the claim of what defines "production" bikes. Access to DMV files may reveal how many Lightning bikes have been registered with them. The price alone for an LS218 would have kept any sales to very small numbers and it is hard to say how much tech is on the LS-218. That could have limited sales further. Right now it seems the Strike that is being delivered is very much a bare bones electric motorcycles. Much of the tech on the LS-218 could have been transferred over and used on the Strike. But this is only if the LS218 actually had any tech features and with lack of video and other feedback that is hard to know. I would think if Lightning sold a LS-218 there should be a VIN associated with the bike and that VIN should be somewhere in the DMV system.

Registering vehicle is done by the states in the US; I don't think there's a national registry.
However, there is a Federal requirement that each on-road vehicle be assigned a unique VIN in a standard international format. Part of the VIN, the World Manufacturer Identifier (WMI) identifies the manufacturer, so theoretically, just like you can lookup a specific VIN for things like recalls, you should have been able to search how many have been assigned to Lightning. Unfortunately, it appears that this isn't free info -- the SAE who assign WMIs charge $500/year for access to the list of WMIs.

[ultrarnr]

MVetter, Any chance you get take a look at the VIN of the Strike you have seen? Might be interesting to know what the last few numbers are as it might be an indicator of how many were made at that point.

[Richard230]

I can tell you from experience that if you don't have the right VIN with 17 digits and with correct numbers and letters, you will get booted out of the DMV office when you try to register the vehicle. However, I believe that there is a way to get around their regulations (such as for home-built and off-road-only vehicles), but that requires specialized knowledge and DMV connections. I have heard that there are a few companies that make a living registering weird vehicles for on-road usage, such as the stuff that Jay Leno owns.   

However, it sure sounds to me that Lightning must have received some sort of manufacturer's experimental exemption for their current Strike models, such as when a new pre-production model is being tested on public roads by a vehicle manufacturer - like when Zero was testing the SR/S, as an example.

What retail customer would buy a vehicle with temporary guts that don't meet the advertised specifications and likely comes with a promise that they might be changed in the future once the bugs are worked out of the design and what sort of guarantee would they receive for the vehicle?    

And if something misfires while they are riding the motorcycle and the owner is hurt, hurts someone else, or causes third-party damage, I hope Lightning has a good product liability insurance policy. There are a ton of ambulance-chasing lawyers advertising on TV who would love to take the case and sue a vehicle manufacturer for damages - such as Russ Brown "The Motorcyclist's Attorney".   

[MVetter]

MVetter, Any chance you get take a look at the VIN of the Strike you have seen? Might be interesting to know what the last few numbers are as it might be an indicator of how many were made at that point.

I'll look today, but I recall it being something like 114, so it may be arbitrary, or it may be bike #4. Dunno. When dad made serialized Vetter fairings he would start the serial numbers at an arbitrary number so people never knew how many were made. Could be a case of that here as well.

[togo]

Ok this is all I could ever find.  I think the solar company put the panels on the van that took the bike to the salt flats so I guess there was still a connection.

Another claimed purchaser is an Apple executive, supposedly a daily driver.

Apple is of course famous for how they control publicity, and I would expect people who are known to be Apple employees to be very careful about publicity.

Maybe they've sold two.

[flattetyre]

I can confirm I have seen one Strike in person. The one I saw is a Carbon Edition but has what is being referred to as a "temporary" battery. 10kWh battery, 3.3kW AC charging only, no rider modes, no programmable regeneration. The one we rode had a very hard time going over 80mph.

What makes more sense, that a regular consumer would actually accept that, or that someone in lightning's network is riding it for testing and to help them get press? In other words how do you know the bike is a legit delivery? Sure doesn't sound like one.